Bills/LA Wk 2: All-22 OLine/Qb Unforced Error Analysis

[Bocephuz]

 

Article on unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not?

 

I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did /
How the QB did on every pass play (I may have missed a snap or two here or there). There also may be a few extra pass attempts that were cancelled due to penalties but this should be 95% accurate.

 

I've also posted this on buildingherd.com.. see link below

 

https://buildingherd.com/2018/09/21/bills-la-wk-2-all-22-oline-qb-unforced-error-analysis

 

As always.. let's hear your comments/thoughts.

 

Bills/LA Wk 2: All-22 OLine/Qb Unforced Error Analysis

Date: September 21, 2018Author: cfuller0 Comments — Edit

 

Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not?

I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did /How the QB did on every pass play (I may have missed a snap or two here or there). There also may be a few extra pass attempts that were cancelled due to penalties but this should be 95% accurate.

 

Sufficient protection means that Josh Allen had time to hit his drop and had at least a second to scan the field.

 

DISCLAIMER (I am not a coach, I don’t know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play)

_______ ______________________

TOTAL PASS PLAYS: 40

LINE BREAKDOWNS: 8/40 snaps –  20%  In other words Allen didn’t really have a chance on 20% of his drop backs. Based on historical data the threshold for average O Line performance has been around a 20% breakdown rate.. so lets say the O Line play (including TEs../RBs more on that later)  was right at average against LA in pass protect.

 

SUFFICIENT PROTECTION: 32- 40 snaps or 80%. In other words QB had a relatively clean pocket 80% of the time.

 

UNFORCED QB ERRORS: 10/40 snaps or 25%. Based on my 2015/16 studies if the Bills’ QBs commit 5 unforced QB errors or less during a game their odds of winning are very favorable. Josh Allen had 10 unforced errors by my count. This is well above the danger zone. As we will see later.. some of these unf errors were not picking up blitzes and throwing to hot routes. Some were just plain off target throws where he was not under duress.

 

O LINE PERFORMANCE

DION DAWKINS – had a really solid day. By my observation there were no obvious pressures given up by DD.

VLAD DUCASSE – I’ve been hard on Vlad the past few months but he was OUTSTANDING in pass protect against LA. To my eye he did not give up any pressures.

RYAN GROY–  Groy was much better this week than against Ravens. However.. he had one obviously bad play where he did not sustain his block .. which indirectly led to an Allen INT

JOHN MILLER – Miller had a bit of a rough start (giving up a sack early as shown below) but he rallied to play much better as the game went on.

 

q1:11:32 -Early in the first quarter #76 is slow to pick up the safety blitz resulting in a sack which Allen had no chance to avoid

 

JORDAN MILLS – Mills was generally solid against a very tough matchup against Melvin Ingram. He did a good job of handling Ingram on wide speed rushes which is usually his Achilles’ heel. On the downside, he did have an inexcusable false start penalty in Q3 and  was also bull rushed into Allen later in the game.

 

O LINE PASS BLOCK GRADES

DION DAWKINS – B
VLAD DUCASSE– A
RYAN GROY – B-
JOHN MILLER – B-
JORDAN MILLS –  B-

 

TE AND RB BLOCKING ISSUES-

While the O Line held up well enough.. it was another story for the Tight Ends and RBs in pass protect. Both Logan Thomas and Marcus Murphy had moments where they were exposed in pass protect

 

q1: 8:43 –  Logan Thomas lines up a little to wide after going into motion and whiffs on blitzer

 

q1: 1:17  – Marcus Murphy shows poor technique and is overpowered by the blizting CB

 

JOSH ALLEN  UNFORCED ERRORS – By my count JA had 10 unforced errors.  Several of these were inaccurate throws where he was not under duress. Hopefully this was due more to nerves than an innate innacuracy problem. Several other unforced errors were situations where the o line picked up the pass rushers but #17 didn’t appear  to account for the unblocked blitzer and therefore didn’t hit his hot route.  There was one instance where he could have stepped up into the pocket to avoid the rush but instead bailed left and into the arms of a DE. The good news is.. it appears that Allen’s natural instinct is to shuffle up into the pocket to avoid a rush. The really good news is that he climbed the pocket for his two best throws at the end of the game in a pressured situation.

 

• NOT GOING THROUGH HIS READS

Q1 3:44 – Allen does a nice PA fake here freezing second level defenders, he has time is looking deep but doesn’t go all the way through his progressions as he does not see Charles Clay wide open to his left

 

• -NOT CLIMBING THE POCKET

Q2: 15:00  – The pocket closes in on Allen .. however.. he has a window in front of him to climb the pocket to avoid pressure. Unfortunately he bails out to the left into the waiting arms of the DE

• 

 

• CLIMBING THE POCKET

Q4: 1:22 –  Here is a clip showing Allen climbing the pocket and finding success. This one should give Bills fans butterflies…

 

SACK BLAME

• The O Line/ TEs RBs appeared to be accountable for 2/6 of the sacks
• Allen appeared to be accountable for 3/6 of the sacks
• The Chargers 1/6 : They had one blitz late in the game that was a masterpiece where neither Allen nor the O Line appeared to be at blame

 

 

GAME SUMMARY

The O Line was definetly not the weak link against the Chargers. This is especially impressive as the Chargers blitzed on almost every passing down up until the 4th quarter. For the most part the O Line appeared to pick up the right man on these blitzes. There were multiple times where there was an extra defender that a lineman or RB/TE were not around to pick up and these are the plays where the QB is accountable for that free blitzer. Hopefully Allen will learn to recognize these situations and either audible out.. or hit a hot route to burn these blitzes.  As these are high level skills that take a while to develop for most QBs you can expect the Vikings and other future opponents to bring the kitchen sink against #17 until he can show he can counter it. Allen was effective several times running to counter the blitz.. however.. that will not always be an option for him in those free blitzer situations.

I also did not see any holding calls on the Bills O Lineman in pass protect. which is a huge step forward from the Ravens game. That being said Mills and Dawkins had inexcusable False Start penalties. All in all though.. the O Line did a great job cleaning up the dirty laundry compared to week 1.

A more obvious weak link were the inexperienced players TE Thomas and RB Murphy who both struggled to effectively pass protect. Again.. with young players comes growing pains but if these two continue to play poorly in pass protect it will be hard for Daboll to trust them and put them in the lineup going forward.

So.. in order for the Bills to make progress on offense they need to improve in several areas

• Allen needs to relax and reduce inaccurate throws when not under duress
• TEs/RBs need to step up their game in pass protect
• Allen needs to get better at recognizing unaccounted for blitzers and find a way to make positive play out of situations
• Allen needs to continue to climb the pocket when he can instead of bailing left or right. With his height he should be able to do the Tom Brady shuffle and stay in the pocket more.

 

__ _____

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS

q1 11:32 – SACK – John Miller late getting to S blitz that appeared to be his responsibility

q1 8:43- SACK – Logan Thomas whiffs on blocking his assignment

q1 3:44- UNFORCED ERROR – Allen nice PA fake, has time , doesn’t see open Charles Clay

Q1 1:23- UNFORCED ERROR –  Allen rolls left and overthrows easy short pass to Murphy

Q1 1:17-  Marcus Murphy overpowered by CB blitz forcing Allen to throw early

q2 15:00 – UNFORCED ERROR – Allen has a window to climb the pocket to avoid pass rush but bails left into arms of DE

q2 1:05 – FALSE START – Dion Dawkins

q2 :59-  SACK –  UNFORCED ERROR – Allen does not account for unblocked #54 .. should have likely gone hot route to McCoy in flat.. takes sack

q3: 12:35-  Allen does excellent job running to avoid the free blitzer picking up solid gain instead of taking sack

q3 11:15- UNFORCED ERROR – Allen rolls right in red zone, has Clay open on out route in end zone but hesitates and throws too late incomplete

q3 6:58- SACK – UNFORCED ERROR — Allen does not see blitz coming.. should’ve have likely identified it and thrown hot route to Jones in flat

q3 5:45 – UNFORCED ERROR –  Allen has time but delivers inaccurate throw to Holmes on sideline behind him which is dropped

q3 2:54- UNFORCED ERROR – Groy can’t hold his block and his man flushes Allen out of the pocket. Allen runs right .. should’ve thrown ball away OOB but forces it and throws INT

q4 7:11 – FALSE START – Jordan Mills

q4 -7:11 – UNFORCED ERROR – INT – Allen has time in his own end zone, noone open, should’ve thrown it away but forces pass that is intercepted

q4 2:58 – Mills bullrushed into Allen forcing him out of pocket

q4 1:55 – SACK – Masterfully disguised blitz by LA.. can’t really blame this on O Line or Allen

q4: 1:22-  Allen climbs dirty pocket and throws 25 yd strike into tight window to Holmes

q4 – Allen again hangs in pocket and throws bullet to Benjamin in end zone for TD

Edited September 21, 2018 by Bocephuz

[Bocephuz]

updated with content pasted into post...

 

flame away:)

[ganesh]

thank you

[aceman_16]

Interesting take.... thanks.

[NewEra]

I appreciate the work you do.  Thank you

[Tommy Callahan]

thanks for the read....

 

 

[Big C]

Appreciate the work. Hoping Allen shows some improvements in his second start. Happy to see all these reports that the line is doing fairly well. 

[John from Riverside]

Appreciate this

 

Does the metric account account for run blocking as well or only pass blocking.

[MJS]

Great analysis. Thanks!

[Gugny]

@Bocephuz - These breakdowns are awesome and I'm glad to see you back doing them.  Thanks for the hard work.  Go Bills!

[HappyDays]

This confirmed what I saw. The offensive line is holding up well enough and Daboll's scheme is working. Allen needs to see the field better and the receivers need to do better.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

This confirmed what I saw. The offensive line is holding up well enough and Daboll's scheme is working. Allen needs to see the field better and the receivers need to do better.

I'd add they need to step up the run blocking and McCoy needs to get going or the pass game isn't ever going to succeed. 

[Bocephuz]

1 hour ago, Big C said:

Appreciate the work. Hoping Allen shows some improvements in his second start. Happy to see all these reports that the line is doing fairly well. 

 

yeah.. im sort of shocked that Mills is playing as well as he is but the tape don’t lie

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Appreciate this

 

Does the metric account account for run blocking as well or only pass blocking.

great question.. pass protection only. evaluating run blocking too confusing for me to attempt 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

 

Article on unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not?

 

I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did /
How the QB did on every pass play (I may have missed a snap or two here or there). There also may be a few extra pass attempts that were cancelled due to penalties but this should be 95% accurate.

 

I've also posted this on buildingherd.com.. see link below

 

https://buildingherd.com/2018/09/21/bills-la-wk-2-all-22-oline-qb-unforced-error-analysis

 

As always.. let's hear your comments/thoughts.

 

Bills/LA Wk 2: All-22 OLine/Qb Unforced Error Analysis

Date: September 21, 2018Author: cfuller0 Comments — Edit

 

Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not?

I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did /How the QB did on every pass play (I may have missed a snap or two here or there). There also may be a few extra pass attempts that were cancelled due to penalties but this should be 95% accurate.

 

Sufficient protection means that Josh Allen had time to hit his drop and had at least a second to scan the field.

 

DISCLAIMER (I am not a coach, I don’t know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play)

_______ ______________________

TOTAL PASS PLAYS: 40

LINE BREAKDOWNS: 8/40 snaps –  20%  In other words Allen didn’t really have a chance on 20% of his drop backs. Based on historical data the threshold for average O Line performance has been around a 20% breakdown rate.. so lets say the O Line play (including TEs../RBs more on that later)  was right at average against LA in pass protect.

 

SUFFICIENT PROTECTION: 32- 40 snaps or 80%. In other words QB had a relatively clean pocket 80% of the time.

 

UNFORCED QB ERRORS: 10/40 snaps or 25%. Based on my 2015/16 studies if the Bills’ QBs commit 5 unforced QB errors or less during a game their odds of winning are very favorable. Josh Allen had 10 unforced errors by my count. This is well above the danger zone. As we will see later.. some of these unf errors were not picking up blitzes and throwing to hot routes. Some were just plain off target throws where he was not under duress.

 

O LINE PERFORMANCE

DION DAWKINS – had a really solid day. By my observation there were no obvious pressures given up by DD.

VLAD DUCASSE – I’ve been hard on Vlad the past few months but he was OUTSTANDING in pass protect against LA. To my eye he did not give up any pressures.

RYAN GROY–  Groy was much better this week than against Ravens. However.. he had one obviously bad play where he did not sustain his block .. which indirectly led to an Allen INT

JOHN MILLER – Miller had a bit of a rough start (giving up a sack early as shown below) but he rallied to play much better as the game went on.

 

q1:11:32 -Early in the first quarter #76 is slow to pick up the safety blitz resulting in a sack which Allen had no chance to avoid

 

JORDAN MILLS – Mills was generally solid against a very tough matchup against Melvin Ingram. He did a good job of handling Ingram on wide speed rushes which is usually his Achilles’ heel. On the downside, he did have an inexcusable false start penalty in Q3 and  was also bull rushed into Allen later in the game.

 

O LINE PASS BLOCK GRADES

DION DAWKINS – B
VLAD DUCASSE– A
RYAN GROY – B-
JOHN MILLER – B-
JORDAN MILLS –  B-

 

TE AND RB BLOCKING ISSUES-

While the O Line held up well enough.. it was another story for the Tight Ends and RBs in pass protect. Both Logan Thomas and Marcus Murphy had moments where they were exposed in pass protect

 

q1: 8:43 –  Logan Thomas lines up a little to wide after going into motion and whiffs on blitzer

 

q1: 1:17  – Marcus Murphy shows poor technique and is overpowered by the blizting CB

 

JOSH ALLEN  UNFORCED ERRORS – By my count JA had 10 unforced errors.  Several of these were inaccurate throws where he was not under duress. Hopefully this was due more to nerves than an innate innacuracy problem. Several other unforced errors were situations where the o line picked up the pass rushers but #17 didn’t appear  to account for the unblocked blitzer and therefore didn’t hit his hot route.  There was one instance where he could have stepped up into the pocket to avoid the rush but instead bailed left and into the arms of a DE. The good news is.. it appears that Allen’s natural instinct is to shuffle up into the pocket to avoid a rush. The really good news is that he climbed the pocket for his two best throws at the end of the game in a pressured situation.

 

• NOT GOING THROUGH HIS READS

Q1 3:44 – Allen does a nice PA fake here freezing second level defenders, he has time is looking deep but doesn’t go all the way through his progressions as he does not see Charles Clay wide open to his left

 

• -NOT CLIMBING THE POCKET

Q2: 15:00  – The pocket closes in on Allen .. however.. he has a window in front of him to climb the pocket to avoid pressure. Unfortunately he bails out to the left into the waiting arms of the DE

• 

 

• CLIMBING THE POCKET

Q4: 1:22 –  Here is a clip showing Allen climbing the pocket and finding success. This one should give Bills fans butterflies…

 

SACK BLAME

• The O Line/ TEs RBs appeared to be accountable for 2/6 of the sacks
• Allen appeared to be accountable for 3/6 of the sacks
• The Chargers 1/6 : They had one blitz late in the game that was a masterpiece where neither Allen nor the O Line appeared to be at blame

 

 

GAME SUMMARY

The O Line was definetly not the weak link against the Chargers. This is especially impressive as the Chargers blitzed on almost every passing down up until the 4th quarter. For the most part the O Line appeared to pick up the right man on these blitzes. There were multiple times where there was an extra defender that a lineman or RB/TE were not around to pick up and these are the plays where the QB is accountable for that free blitzer. Hopefully Allen will learn to recognize these situations and either audible out.. or hit a hot route to burn these blitzes.  As these are high level skills that take a while to develop for most QBs you can expect the Vikings and other future opponents to bring the kitchen sink against #17 until he can show he can counter it. Allen was effective several times running to counter the blitz.. however.. that will not always be an option for him in those free blitzer situations.

I also did not see any holding calls on the Bills O Lineman in pass protect. which is a huge step forward from the Ravens game. That being said Mills and Dawkins had inexcusable False Start penalties. All in all though.. the O Line did a great job cleaning up the dirty laundry compared to week 1.

A more obvious weak link were the inexperienced players TE Thomas and RB Murphy who both struggled to effectively pass protect. Again.. with young players comes growing pains but if these two continue to play poorly in pass protect it will be hard for Daboll to trust them and put them in the lineup going forward.

So.. in order for the Bills to make progress on offense they need to improve in several areas

• Allen needs to relax and reduce inaccurate throws when not under duress
• TEs/RBs need to step up their game in pass protect
• Allen needs to get better at recognizing unaccounted for blitzers and find a way to make positive play out of situations
• Allen needs to continue to climb the pocket when he can instead of bailing left or right. With his height he should be able to do the Tom Brady shuffle and stay in the pocket more.

 

__ _____

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS

q1 11:32 – SACK – John Miller late getting to S blitz that appeared to be his responsibility

q1 8:43- SACK – Logan Thomas whiffs on blocking his assignment

q1 3:44- UNFORCED ERROR – Allen nice PA fake, has time , doesn’t see open Charles Clay

Q1 1:23- UNFORCED ERROR –  Allen rolls left and overthrows easy short pass to Murphy

Q1 1:17-  Marcus Murphy overpowered by CB blitz forcing Allen to throw early

q2 15:00 – UNFORCED ERROR – Allen has a window to climb the pocket to avoid pass rush but bails left into arms of DE

q2 1:05 – FALSE START – Dion Dawkins

q2 :59-  SACK –  UNFORCED ERROR – Allen does not account for unblocked #54 .. should have likely gone hot route to McCoy in flat.. takes sack

q3: 12:35-  Allen does excellent job running to avoid the free blitzer picking up solid gain instead of taking sack

q3 11:15- UNFORCED ERROR – Allen rolls right in red zone, has Clay open on out route in end zone but hesitates and throws too late incomplete

q3 6:58- SACK – UNFORCED ERROR — Allen does not see blitz coming.. should’ve have likely identified it and thrown hot route to Jones in flat

q3 5:45 – UNFORCED ERROR –  Allen has time but delivers inaccurate throw to Holmes on sideline behind him which is dropped

q3 2:54- UNFORCED ERROR – Groy can’t hold his block and his man flushes Allen out of the pocket. Allen runs right .. should’ve thrown ball away OOB but forces it and throws INT

q4 7:11 – FALSE START – Jordan Mills

q4 -7:11 – UNFORCED ERROR – INT – Allen has time in his own end zone, noone open, should’ve thrown it away but forces pass that is intercepted

q4 2:58 – Mills bullrushed into Allen forcing him out of pocket

q4 1:55 – SACK – Masterfully disguised blitz by LA.. can’t really blame this on O Line or Allen

q4: 1:22-  Allen climbs dirty pocket and throws 25 yd strike into tight window to Holmes

q4 – Allen again hangs in pocket and throws bullet to Benjamin in end zone for TD

 

Really good job, thanks.

 

Can you comment more on what you see as Allen's inaccurate throws when not under duress? 

 

Mostly what I saw was when he was rolling out, he sometimes didn't re-set or re-set poorly.  You might say he wasn't under duress in that sometimes he could have stepped up or, if he threw earlier thrown before the duress get there, but at the point of throw I saw some kind of duress. 

 

The exception was those pesky short throws, where his accuracy is still hit and miss.

7 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

great question.. pass protection only. evaluating run blocking too confusing for me to attempt 

 

I'm actually having a whack at that now

[Bocephuz]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:06 PM, Gray Beard said:

Where’s @Bocephuz?

I always enjoyed his informal, non-expert, highly informative, complete, and easy to follow breakdowns of line play.

 

No sarcasm intended.  I’m being serious.

 

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Really good job, thanks.

 

Can you comment more on what you see as Allen's inaccurate throws when not under duress? 

 

Mostly what I saw was when he was rolling out, he sometimes didn't re-set or re-set poorly.  You might say he wasn't under duress in that sometimes he could have stepped up or, if he threw earlier thrown before the duress get there, but at the point of throw I saw some kind of duress. 

 

The exception was those pesky short throws, where his accuracy is still hit and miss.

 

I'm actually having a whack at that now

 

Thanks.. .

 

Throws Not Under Duress  -  I think its a case by case thing. I think on the shorter roll out throws like with DeMarco and the one he missed to Murray he is overthinking and trying to take too much off the ball which is unnatural for him. EJ used to do that on a lot of throws.  I'd have to rewatch to see if it was any particular technique on those rollout throws.. my instinct tells me it is nerves more than specific technique. A lot of other quarterbacks execute those throws from crazy arm angles/ awkard feet position just fine.

 

I think some of the other inaccurate intermediate throws are mostly due to him not gettng the ball out on time and in rhythm. He is waiting a beat to long and trying to rocket it in instead of anticipating and leading his receiver.

 

Interested to see the run game breakdown.

 

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

nice work. thanks.  I really hope Allen turns the corner and plays like Baker.

[1st&ten]

I get a kick how the national media as already proclaimed the Bills O line as terrible---they don't have a clue----they're just repeating the narrative from some one else. They're too busy following the " hot shot teams".  They're still trying to built up Dallas as an elite franchise & contender.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

 

 

Thanks.. .

 

Throws Not Under Duress  -  I think its a case by case thing. I think on the shorter roll out throws like with DeMarco and the one he missed to Murray he is overthinking and trying to take too much off the ball which is unnatural for him. EJ used to do that on a lot of throws.  I'd have to rewatch to see if it was any particular technique on those rollout throws.. my instinct tells me it is nerves more than specific technique. A lot of other quarterbacks execute those throws from crazy arm angles/ awkard feet position just fine.

 

I think some of the other inaccurate intermediate throws are mostly due to him not gettng the ball out on time and in rhythm. He is waiting a beat to long and trying to rocket it in instead of anticipating and leading his receiver.

 

Interested to see the run game breakdown.

 

Run game isn't pretty.  I'll give you the 1040EZ right now: every run play I've looked at so far involves use of cut blocks, which if done right put defender and OLman on the turf.  I see our OLmen on the turf right enough, but have yet to see a defender taken down.  On one run play to RT, the opposite side defensive end made the tackle.  Dawkins crossed  in front of him, evidently assigned to pull, but whoever was supposed to block that guy totally whiffed it.

 

Crazy bad.

 

Question: on a play like 2ND & 4 AT BUF 31(08:43) where the all-22 lists it as a run play "J.Allen up the middle to BUF 25 for -6 yards (D.James)" do you score that as a run or as a pass?  It was a fake handoff to Shady where the unblocked defender nailed Allen just afterwards, but it seems pretty obvious it was intended for a pass.  How did you score that one?  Derwin James crossed the formation with Thomas, hinting at man, but then he blitzed and came in unblocked.  Who do you put that on? (not in any way criticism just wanting to understand how you see it)

 

[Luka]

23 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

I get a kick how the national media as already proclaimed the Bills O line as terrible---they don't have a clue----they're just repeating the narrative from some one else. They're too busy following the " hot shot teams".  They're still trying to built up Dallas as an elite franchise & contender.

 

When you have RBs and TEs not pulling their weight in pass protection, it does make the line look worse. The run blocking scheme they are attempting to use is atrocious. That also makes the line look bad. And while these grades are nice and all, Miller and Groy are consistently man handled at the point of attack. Passing lanes/line of sight are a mess and they typically seem to be JUST barely blocking people. A good illustration is the first picture of Miller totally out of sorts and the third image down Groy frantically looking side to side and then just getting enough of the rusher to call it a block.

 

OP is real generous with his grades, must be some common core sliding scale thing.

[BillsFan130]

Thank you sir. Always look forward to your write ups 

[Bocephuz]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Run game isn't pretty.  I'll give you the 1040EZ right now: every run play I've looked at so far involves use of cut blocks, which if done right put defender and OLman on the turf.  I see our OLmen on the turf right enough, but have yet to see a defender taken down.  On one run play to RT, the opposite side defensive end made the tackle.  Dawkins crossed  in front of him, evidently assigned to pull, but whoever was supposed to block that guy totally whiffed it.

 

Crazy bad.

 

Question: on a play like 2ND & 4 AT BUF 31(08:43) where the all-22 lists it as a run play "J.Allen up the middle to BUF 25 for -6 yards (D.James)" do you score that as a run or as a pass?  It was a fake handoff to Shady where the unblocked defender nailed Allen just afterwards, but it seems pretty obvious it was intended for a pass.  How did you score that one?  Derwin James crossed the formation with Thomas, hinting at man, but then he blitzed and came in unblocked.  Who do you put that on?

8

 

yeah.. I saw Groy whiff on one of the run cut blocks. I miss the old Roman power man blocking.

 

Is it this play?

 

I think I scored that one as a pass attempt and a sack. Its pretty obvious to me they're trying to run PA there. I can't really put that one on Josh Allen. Logan Thomas whiffs on his block.. I have to believe Thomas' first job was to block his guy on this one and not run a route

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

When you have RBs and TEs not pulling their weight in pass protection, it does make the line look worse. The run blocking scheme they are attempting to use is atrocious. That also makes the line look bad. And while these grades are nice and all, Miller and Groy are consistently man handled at the point of attack. Passing lanes/line of sight are a mess and they typically seem to be JUST barely blocking people. A good illustration is the first picture of Miller totally out of sorts and the third image down Groy frantically looking side to side and then just getting enough of the rusher to call it a block.

 

OP is real generous with his grades, must be some common core sliding scale thing.

 

Oh boy is that bolded part true.  The only successful runs by McCoy I've seen so far featured him saying "f*** this, Imma do it myself" and either bouncing outside or making his mind up that he'd dive in and muscle out some yards.

 

On the pass blocking though, while I haven't tried to break it down for the most part I was pleasantly surprised.  There are plenty of plays where Allen has time and simply doesn't pull the trigger on an open guy.  The problem is that the feeling of being under duress (which Allen was a lot, at first) tends to put a QB head in that space.

 

3 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

 

yeah.. I saw Groy whiff on one of the run cut blocks. I miss the old Roman power man blocking.

 

Is it this play?

 

I think I scored that one as a pass attempt and a sack. Its pretty obvious to me they're trying to run PA there. I can't really put that one on Josh Allen. Logan Thomas whiffs on his block.. I have to believe Thomas' first job was to block his guy on this one and not run a route

 

Yep, that's the one I meant.  Agree with your assessment on both points.

[Bocephuz]

3 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

When you have RBs and TEs not pulling their weight in pass protection, it does make the line look worse. The run blocking scheme they are attempting to use is atrocious. That also makes the line look bad. And while these grades are nice and all, Miller and Groy are consistently man handled at the point of attack. Passing lanes/line of sight are a mess and they typically seem to be JUST barely blocking people. A good illustration is the first picture of Miller totally out of sorts and the third image down Groy frantically looking side to side and then just getting enough of the rusher to call it a block.

 

OP is real generous with his grades, must be some common core sliding scale thing.

 

Run blocking was out of the scope of my analysis here.. only focused on pass protect

 

I showed one example each of MIller and Groy being beaten.. but there were many other plays where they were sufficiently blocking that factored into decent grade

 

I specifically showed clips of the RBs and TEs not doing their job...

[Luka]

Just now, Bocephuz said:

 

Run blocking was out of the scope of my analysis here.. only focused on pass protect

 

I showed one example each of MIller and Groy being beaten.. but there were many other plays where they were sufficiently blocking that factored into decent grade

 

I specifically showed clips of the RBs and TEs not doing their job...

 

Never said you didn't. I'm just saying that your grades of Groy and Miller are generous, considering Groy probably isn't starting this week. I doubt McDermott has a B grade on him. And I've seen Miller literally laying on his back in the backfield more than once. Sufficient time for the QB and blocking well are two different things. The cut block scheme is probably a result of these guys just being weak at the point of attack.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Never said you didn't. I'm just saying that your grades of Groy and Miller are generous, considering Groy probably isn't starting this week. I doubt McDermott has a B grade on him. And I've seen Miller literally laying on his back in the backfield more than once. Sufficient time for the QB and blocking well are two different things. The cut block scheme is probably a result of these guys just being weak at the point of attack.

 

But here's the thing: they weren't that weak in previous schemes.   And they aren't getting it done any better with the cut blocks, they're just cluttering up the running lanes with their prone carcasses while defenders hurdle them.  Maybe if they're going to get pushed back at the point of attack, they should stay on their feet as at least they're less obstructive to our RB that way.

 

 

[Bocephuz]

15 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Never said you didn't. I'm just saying that your grades of Groy and Miller are generous, considering Groy probably isn't starting this week. I doubt McDermott has a B grade on him. And I've seen Miller literally laying on his back in the backfield more than once. Sufficient time for the QB and blocking well are two different things. The cut block scheme is probably a result of these guys just being weak at the point of attack.

 

point taken. sufficient is my bar.. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I want to bump Bocephuz work so I'm putting my run blocking assessment here.  I can't grade each lineman.  It's too hard to tell who has what responsibility.  I also didn't look at Allen's runs, because while I can make an educated guess if it's a designed run or scramble, the element of uncertainty adds difficulty.

 

My first goal is to assess the run blocking scheme.  Is the scheme plausible, and the players just can't get it done?   Or is the scheme at fault, and requires change?

 

My answer is "some of both"

 

There were 14 RB plays in the game: 9 to McCoy, 2 to Ivory, 3 to Murray.  That's it.

There were 2 nice runs of 18 and 27 yards - the entire game.  The latter was nice from a 2 TE set, run between the RT and the 2 TE.  The blocking worked (no cuts!).  It begged the question "why not explore those concepts more?"  The former may have been intended to run inside the RT, but McCoy bounced outside.  It was called back on a Miller hold.  I thought the hold (if any) was ticky tack, but I think all the cut blocking invites close scrutiny by the refs and invokes the motto "when in doubt, throw laundry".

 

Of the 7 RB handoffs in the 1st half, 5 of them employed cut blocking, sometimes by 3 different linemen in one play.  They were all stuffed for no or minimal gain.  I know cuts are employed extensively and effectively in the college game, but I saw no NFL defenders taken to the ground Sunday.  Perhaps NFL defenders are too athletic and nimble to cut down. Maybe our OL guys just can't do it consistently.  Daboll: please lose the cuts.  Maybe he figured it out.  There were no cut blocks in the 2nd half.

 

Of the 7 RB handoffs in the 2nd half, 4 worked, one well (the 27 yd gain).  Chris Ivory had two of the best runs on the day aside from McCoy's 27 yd scamper.  Murphy also had a run that made yards. On three of them, the run blocking was so messed up that instead of something like "22pers C gap Ducasse pulled" my notes say things like  "11 pers B? WTF was that?"  It's so messed up I can't answer the question "is it the scheme or is it the linemen?" because I can't figure out what the scheme is supposed to be.  There seems to be a lot of confusion about blocking assignments at times.

 

I think McCoy was actually hurt before it was reported, before Groy fell on him.  There's a play 8:14 in the 3Q, 2-6 at the Buf 39, one of those where my notes say "WTF was that?"  Everybody on the OL flowed to the right, Shady ran directly into an unblocked Ingram, and Ingram literally picked Shady off his feet and slammed him into the turf while another linebacker and the safety piled onto him.  The play where Groy fell on him 5 minutes later hit the same spots that Ingram slammed.

 

This has to be said: before he was hurt, I did not think McCoy ran well.  I don't think it's age; when the blocking worked, or when he bounced outside, he was speedy and showed a burst.  I think at times, McCoy doesn't himself believe that the blocking will work, maybe based upon practice?  If he gains yards, it's going to be him hitting hard and his churning legs, and he's always been "Cut on Dime", elusive, he's never been that kind of RB who grinds it out 3.3 YPC to move the chains.   In my opinion, Shady should sit and heal up.  Having sore ribs is not going to increase his enthusiasm for charging into those snarls and getting the hard fought yards.  Sit him, let him heal, meanwhile sort the blocking.  Maybe he can come back to 5 or 6 plays per game that work well instead of 1 or 2.

 

Daboll and Castillo need to get real with themselves about what blocking schemes they have in their pocket that can actually work with these guys.  They seem to be confusing their own guys far more than they're fooling the defense.  Lose the cut blocks, lose the fakery that is fooling no one, put in 2 tight ends and a fullback.

 

OK, that's what I got.

 

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Big C said:

Appreciate the work. Hoping Allen shows some improvements in his second start. Happy to see all these reports that the line is doing fairly well. 

THe line is...but the TE and RB who are part of the blocking scheme have been blowing it up!

7 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

 

Run blocking was out of the scope of my analysis here.. only focused on pass protect

 

I showed one example each of MIller and Groy being beaten.. but there were many other plays where they were sufficiently blocking that factored into decent grade

 

I specifically showed clips of the RBs and TEs not doing their job...

I think the OL has not been able to open enough holes for the Running Game...Center has been pretty horrible in this aspect.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, ganesh said:

THe line is...but the TE and RB who are part of the blocking scheme have been blowing it up!

I think the OL has not been able to open enough holes for the Running Game...Center has been pretty horrible in this aspect.

 

When you look carefully the problems are far from limited to the center, and seem to involve ineffective blocking schemes (cut blocking) and confusion among the blockers as to whom they should block.  We had something like 5 positive running plays, 2 that worked well (of which 1 was called back for holding).

 

Yes, sometimes they are getting beaten like drums, but that's far from the only problem.

[Bocephuz]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I want to bump Bocephuz work so I'm putting my run blocking assessment here.  I can't grade each lineman.  It's too hard to tell who has what responsibility.  I also didn't look at Allen's runs, because while I can make an educated guess if it's a designed run or scramble, the element of uncertainty adds difficulty.

 

My first goal is to assess the run blocking scheme.  Is the scheme plausible, and the players just can't get it done?   Or is the scheme at fault, and requires change?

 

My answer is "some of both"

 

There were 14 RB plays in the game: 9 to McCoy, 2 to Ivory, 3 to Murray.  That's it.

There were 2 nice runs of 18 and 27 yards - the entire game.  The latter was nice from a 2 TE set, run between the RT and the 2 TE.  The blocking worked (no cuts!).  It begged the question "why not explore those concepts more?"  The former may have been intended to run inside the RT, but McCoy bounced outside.  It was called back on a Miller hold.  I thought the hold (if any) was ticky tack, but I think all the cut blocking invites close scrutiny by the refs and invokes the motto "when in doubt, throw laundry".

 

Of the 7 RB handoffs in the 1st half, 5 of them employed cut blocking, sometimes by 3 different linemen in one play.  They were all stuffed for no or minimal gain.  I know cuts are employed extensively and effectively in the college game, but I saw no NFL defenders taken to the ground Sunday.  Perhaps NFL defenders are too athletic and nimble to cut down. Maybe our OL guys just can't do it consistently.  Daboll: please lose the cuts.  Maybe he figured it out.  There were no cut blocks in the 2nd half.

 

Of the 7 RB handoffs in the 2nd half, 4 worked, one well (the 27 yd gain).  Chris Ivory had two of the best runs on the day aside from McCoy's 27 yd scamper.  Murphy also had a run that made yards. On three of them, the run blocking was so messed up that instead of something like "22pers C gap Ducasse pulled" my notes say things like  "11 pers B? WTF was that?"  It's so messed up I can't answer the question "is it the scheme or is it the linemen?" because I can't figure out what the scheme is supposed to be.  There seems to be a lot of confusion about blocking assignments at times.

 

I think McCoy was actually hurt before it was reported, before Groy fell on him.  There's a play 8:14 in the 3Q, 2-6 at the Buf 39, one of those where my notes say "WTF was that?"  Everybody on the OL flowed to the right, Shady ran directly into an unblocked Ingram, and Ingram literally picked Shady off his feet and slammed him into the turf while another linebacker and the safety piled onto him.  The play where Groy fell on him 5 minutes later hit the same spots that Ingram slammed.

 

This has to be said: before he was hurt, I did not think McCoy ran well.  I don't think it's age; when the blocking worked, or when he bounced outside, he was speedy and showed a burst.  I think at times, McCoy doesn't himself believe that the blocking will work, maybe based upon practice?  If he gains yards, it's going to be him hitting hard and his churning legs, and he's always been "Cut on Dime", elusive, he's never been that kind of RB who grinds it out 3.3 YPC to move the chains.   In my opinion, Shady should sit and heal up.  Having sore ribs is not going to increase his enthusiasm for charging into those snarls and getting the hard fought yards.  Sit him, let him heal, meanwhile sort the blocking.  Maybe he can come back to 5 or 6 plays per game that work well instead of 1 or 2.

 

Daboll and Castillo need to get real with themselves about what blocking schemes they have in their pocket that can actually work with these guys.  They seem to be confusing their own guys far more than they're fooling the defense.  Lose the cut blocks, lose the fakery that is fooling no one, put in 2 tight ends and a fullback.

 

OK, that's what I got.

 

 

good to see they were open to changing it up to more downhill blocking in 2nd half.  im fine with 3 yards and a cloud of dust. 

[Big C]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

THe line is...but the TE and RB who are part of the blocking scheme have been blowing it up!

I think the OL has not been able to open enough holes for the Running Game...Center has been pretty horrible in this aspect.

 

You are correct... not to mention the receivers are not helping much in the run game either. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, Big C said:

You are correct... not to mention the receivers are not helping much in the run game either. 

 

Some are, some aren't.  Foster is being asked to contribute with end-arounds.  He's doing as asked. Holmes showed some competent blocking when asked.

The best rush of the day featured Croom and (I think) Thomas blocking in tandem.

 

I haven't noticed Zay Jones, which could be either good or bad. 

Benjamin is Mr Whiffy - I mean, Kelvin *pretend* like you care OK?

Allen is totally lame.  No one wants to see Allen leading with his surgically repaired shoulder, but he could learn to chip or at least get in the way enough to slow a guy down - woulda meant Shady got body-slammed by 2 guys instead of 3 on 2-6 Buf 39 3Q.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bocephuz said:

good to see they were open to changing it up to more downhill blocking in 2nd half.  im fine with 3 yards and a cloud of dust. 

 

To be fair, the downhill blocking they tried in the first half (2 plays) were pretty much blocking fails, but at least with guys standing up and impeding their targets Shady was able to bounce one outside for a good gain.  And I can't pin it on Groy - in one case Ducasse was beaten like a drum, in the other Miller was called for holding, negating that good gain.

 

It's not like downhill suddenly worked great in the 2nd half, but I think (hope) if they focus on just one thing they might eliminate some of the confusion about assignments and it would go better overall. 

 

The best run play brought in 2 TE to block.  There are still 3 plays in the 2nd half where I'm trying to figure out what the @#$@#% the blocking was supposed to look like. 

 

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the OL has not been able to open enough holes for the Running Game...Center has been pretty horrible in this aspect.

 

There is no way you can watch the debacle that has been our run game blocking and pin it just on the center.  If you're noticing his a** on the grass a lot (which is what I saw on first glance) it's actually because they were being asked to cut block a lot in the Ravens game and the 1st half of Chargers. 

[Buffalo716]

Good job by everybody 

 

one thing is for sure, the Bills new run blocking scheme is pretty complex and they are having some problems executing 

 

keep it simple stupid

[Domdab99]

But wait, everyone on this forum is absolutely positive the OL is to blame! You mean THEY'RE WRONG???

 

Amazing. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

But wait, everyone on this forum is absolutely positive the OL is to blame! You mean THEY'RE WRONG???

 

Amazing. 

 

The Bills haven’t been able to run block all season 

 

we have guys laying on the turf every play

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

But wait, everyone on this forum is absolutely positive the OL is to blame! You mean THEY'RE WRONG???

Amazing. 

 

They're partly wrong.  The pass blocking isn't strong or luxurious but it's sufficient most times for Allen to get the ball out esp. on quick hits.  He is missing guys who are open before he bails.  Usually if it isn't, it's due to a missed blitz pickup or a whiffed block by a TE, not the OL per se.

 

The run blocking sucks.  We didn't have as many guys laying on the turf once Daboll stepped away from the cut blocking. It was still ugly and the issues go far beyond Groy.