The cap situation McBeane inhereted

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

They didn't draft either of their starting safeties either.  Of their 4 starting DBs, they drafted 1.

 

Ok so they “only” drafted their best LB, the best DB in the game, their franchise QB RB AND TE. Whew, that’s awful. 

 

 

[VW82]

Excellent post. It's amazing to me how anyone could see this breakdown and still question McBeane's decision to rebuild. I get the frustration with the execution of it but it NEEDED to happen. Our cap situation was F'd. We had no choice.

Edited September 18, 2018 by VW82

[26CornerBlitz]

Does Inhereted mean you never go outside?  

[SoCal Deek]

When all of the armchair GMs on here start opining, about this and that. I would love it everyone was willing to suggest what they would do right now, in 2018. Who do you keep?  Who do you lock in?  Who do you let go?  (I'm far from an expert on this subject, so it's an honest question.)

[Mango]

37 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Having Darius and not star would have been 2 million less cap. Darby not Vontae would save 3 mil. But you wouldn’t have Harrison so you’d need another DT. 

 

I just checked. He’s 13.5 mil in dead cap in Buffalo this year, and 10.1 mil in cap space in Jax. 

 

Star is 6.7 mil against the cap. 

 

Were spending 20 million in dead cap and a lesser replacement in Star, where we could have just kept Marcel at 10.1? 

 

Based on those number we could have Marcel and 10 mil more in cap space....

 

We would be better in defense and have more money to spend in that scenario....

Edited September 18, 2018 by Mango

[Batman1876]

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I just checked. He’s 13.5 mil in dead cap in Buffalo this year, and 10.1 mil in cap space in Jax. 

 

Star is 6.7 mil against the cap. 

 

Were spending 20 million in dead cap and a lesser replacement in Star, where we could have just kept Marcel at 10.1? 

 

Based on those number we could have Marcel and 10 mil more in cap space....

 

We would be better in defense and have more money to spend in that scenario....

Some of the dead cap would have instead been this year’s portion of cap hit for his signing bonus. His cap hit for us would have been closer to 16 Mil. Plus we saved money last year (6 mil) which was part of the unused cap which we rolled over to this year. Dead cap plus Star is about 20 but Darius would have cost 16 and our salary cap number would have been 6 mil less for a total of 22. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Batman1876

[K-9]

Dareus made it ABUNDANTLY clear he didn’t want to be here any more. Why carry all that salary for a malcontent who only put forth effort when he felt like it last year? Should the Pegulas have fired the coach instead? 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Some of the dead cap would have instead been this year’s portion of cap hit for his signing bonus. His cap hit for us would have been closer to 16 Mil. Plus we saved money last year (6 mil) which was part of the unused cap which we rolled over to this year. Dead cap plus Star is about 20 but Darius would have cost 16 and our salary cap number would have been 6 mil less for a total of 22. 

 

So 3x more cap space than your original response (2mil) . Or just Star’s money? 

 

We wouldn’t have needed to replace DT immediately and could have used Stars money on another position of need. 

 

Dareus’ dead cap after his season drops to 

[NoSaint]

I remember 2 years ago being 7-8 and this board being Overwhelmingly in unison that the team was underachieving because of bad coaching and could probably use an upgrade at qb.

 

suddenly the narrative is the whole roster was overpaid and terrible and McDermott had one of the tallest tasks imaginable 

[Peter]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Dareus made it ABUNDANTLY clear he didn’t want to be here any more. Why carry all that salary for a malcontent who only put forth effort when he felt like it last year? Should the Pegulas have fired the coach instead? 

 

That is absolutely not true.

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

That's nice. Wishing for people to fail.

 

You seem like a swell fella. 

 

Wishing for people to fail isn't as bad as shitting in a napkin and then strategically placing human waste to ruin someone's shoes and pants.  This sounds like personal growth for Limeaid.

[Batman1876]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

So 3x more cap space than your original response (2mil) . Or just Star’s money? 

 

We wouldn’t have needed to replace DT immediately and could have used Stars money on another position of need. 

 

Dareus’ dead cap after his season drops to 

Trading Darius saved 8 Mil this year

Signing Star costs 6 mil this year

if we didn’t sign Star we could have spent those savings elsewhere.

if we didn’t Trade Darius we would have had 8 Mil less to spend in FA

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Batman1876 said:

Trading Darius saved 8 Mil this year

Signing Star costs 6 mil this year

if we didn’t sign Star we could have spent those savings elsewhere.

if we didn’t Trade Darius we would have had 8 Mil less to spend in FA

The fact that you can't spell the guy's name even when quoting a post where Dareus is spelled correctly does not give me confidence that you have the best handle on his worth as a player.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

That is absolutely not true.

No, it absolutely true. How long should we keep this up? 

 

He wanted out and Beane obliged. That simple. I know that for a fact. 

[Batman1876]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I remember 2 years ago being 7-8 and this board being Overwhelmingly in unison that the team was underachieving because of bad coaching and could probably use an upgrade at qb.

 

suddenly the narrative is the whole roster was overpaid and terrible and McDermott had one of the tallest tasks imaginable 

Those under achievers got 2 years older and cost more. They weren’t terrible, I’d argue the roster was mediocre, that’s why they spent 4 years hovering around .500

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The fact that you can't spell the guy's name even when quoting a post where Dareus is spelled correctly does not give me confidence that you have the best handle on his worth as a player.

I’m better with numbers than with spelling.?

[Big Gun]

1 minute ago, Batman1876 said:

Those under achievers got 2 years older and cost more. They weren’t terrible, I’d argue the roster was mediocre, that’s why they spent 4 years hovering around .500

Kind of like what's going to happen with the current guys.

 

Just another reason why you don't go full tear down in the NFL.

[Batman1876]

Just now, pop gun said:

Kind of like what's going to happen with the current guys.

 

Just another reason why you don't go full tear down in the NFL.

Our team as a whole is likely to get younger for the next several years. We have young players playing significant positions. Which players do you wish they had kept?

[reddogblitz]

28 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Dareus made it ABUNDANTLY clear he didn’t want to be here any more. Why carry all that salary for a malcontent who only put forth effort when he felt like it last year? Should the Pegulas have fired the coach instead? 

 

Yet when he left so did our ability to stop the run resulting in 3 straight losses.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

These guys would rather lose with their own players, then win with someone else’s. From the minute Beane and McDermott got here its been a race to get rid of as many old guard players as possible. Even the ones who could have helped us down the road. Very rarely have they been replaced with anything close to a good player. The plan is not sneaky smart. It’s just a bunch of replacement level, money ball trash that got bailed out last year by a few of the studs.

[BrooklynBills]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Just saying they did a regime change without a purge. Interesting 

 

and that is on a 1-31 team. No purge 

 

Sashi did The Purge bro. Then they fired him for doing it. Also, they had something like 75% roster turnover this year so I'm not sure where you are getting the no purge from

51 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Some of the dead cap would have instead been this year’s portion of cap hit for his signing bonus. His cap hit for us would have been closer to 16 Mil. Plus we saved money last year (6 mil) which was part of the unused cap which we rolled over to this year. Dead cap plus Star is about 20 but Darius would have cost 16 and our salary cap number would have been 6 mil less for a total of 22. 

Explaining cap rollover to 90% of this board is a waste of time

[K-9]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Yet when he left so did our ability to stop the run resulting in 3 straight losses.

Kind of a moot point, though. Nobody ever denied he was a good player who could dominate at times and make it difficult for opposing offenses, but he lost interest in being here, wanted a fresh start, and we obliged. Why would they want to keep a malcontent when they were trying to establish something? Never mind. We beat this dead horse and then some after the deal went down, no sense in rehashing it now. 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

5 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

And they'd be an even bigger mess that would take even longer to clean up if someone hadn't had the balls to recognize the situation and undertaken the project to fix it.

 

But it's much more fun to throw temper tantrums.

He spent 20 million of three defensive players instead of bringing on help for his young qb 

[Peter]

29 minutes ago, K-9 said:

No, it absolutely true. How long should we keep this up? 

 

He wanted out and Beane obliged. That simple. I know that for a fact. 

 

This is s crock. You  know it. I know it.

[K-9]

Just now, Peter said:

 

This is s crock. You  know it. I know it.

No, it’s most definitely not a crock, I assure you. 

[Peter]

Just now, K-9 said:

No, it’s most definitely not a crock, I assure you. 

 

Believe what you want.

 

I can assure you that you are wrong.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, K-9 said:

No, it’s most definitely not a crock, I assure you. 

I 100% believe Dareus is a petulant child and wanted out of Buffalo not long into McDermott's term as coach.  We know this was true of Dareus and Marrone which is why I'm shocked he ended up in Jacksonville.

 

I also believe that if you want to be a successful NFL coach you will need to learn to work with and the most out of guys like Dareus.  Not every player can be redeemed but there needs to be some compromise. 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Believe what you want.

 

I can assure you that you are wrong.

I doubt that. But I understand given the nature of internet forums. I’ll just say when it comes to things like this, I’m not given to “believing what I want” but more in what I’ve been told. Directly. 

[Peter]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I doubt that. But I understand given the nature of internet forums. I’ll just say when it comes to things like this, I’m not given to “believing what I want” but more in what I’ve been told. Directly. 

 

Me too.

[Mark80]

6 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

 

.....if this season continues as it presently is, no quality FA will want to come here and those who do will have to be overpaid.   

 

A catch-22 dog chasing it's tail conundrum that has been going on here for quite some time.

 

Landry Jones signed with the 0-16 Browns this off-season.  Puh-lease.

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I 100% believe Dareus is a petulant child and wanted out of Buffalo not long into McDermott's term as coach.  We know this was true of Dareus and Marrone which is why I'm shocked he ended up in Jacksonville.

 

I also believe that if you want to be a successful NFL coach you will need to learn to work with and the most out of guys like Dareus.  Not every player can be redeemed but there needs to be some compromise. 

Great point about compromise and, I think Beane was willing to go there much more so than McDermott. But that missed bus before the Ravens preseason game last year and some subsequent tardiness for meetings stuck in his craw. And there were several games early on where Dareus just wasn’t putting forth effort. At all. That, coupled with his one strike status, made it easier for Beane to move on. 

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Me too.

Yeah, ok. So we’re good then. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Lol all of those years MADE that defense. Do a little research 

It really is amazing how the narrative totally dismisses the fact that teams like the Jags were picking high every year....picking in the top college talent......most of those defensive players are high jags draft picks.......most of the offense for that matter

[Peter]

20 minutes ago, K-9 said:

 

Yeah, ok. So we’re good then. 

 

I am good. I always have been good.  

[dubs]

Doug Whaley:

Director of Pro Personel 2/2010 - 5/2013

General Manager 5/2013 - 4/2017

 

Bills records those years:

2010 - 4-12

2011 - 6-10

2012 - 6-10

2013 - 6-10

2014 - 9-7

2015 - 8-8

2016 - 7-9

 

Beane and co are trying to get us out of the mediocrity trap. Take a couple steps back to take many steps forward. Started with getting a QB and some key pieces on defense (QB of the defense and a top flight CB). Also clearing cap space and accumulating draft picks. 

 

Again, this may not work. All depends on what happens with JA and what they do with drafts and key FA signings. Nothing up to this point in FA is key except maybe Star. 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It really is amazing how the narrative totally dismisses the fact that teams like the Jags were picking high every year....picking in the top college talent......most of those defensive players are high jags draft picks.......most of the offense for that matter

Its equally amazing how the "narrative" dismisses how the Jags and Browns have picked in the top 10 nearly every year for the past decade*. Cleveland has picked 7 times in the top 5.  Only in 2015 did the Browns not pick in the top 10.  Meanwhile Jax only picked outside the top 10 in 2018.  6 years in a row they owned one of the top 5 picks. 

 

You can suck for a very long time in this league if you're committed to it.  I'm not buying the Jags as a success story.

 

*before trades.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Jauronimo

[VW82]

58 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

These guys would rather lose with their own players, then win with someone else’s. From the minute Beane and McDermott got here its been a race to get rid of as many old guard players as possible. Even the ones who could have helped us down the road. Very rarely have they been replaced with anything close to a good player. The plan is not sneaky smart. It’s just a bunch of replacement level, money ball trash that got bailed out last year by a few of the studs.

 

Did you even read the OP? This wasn't about getting rid of Whaley's guys. It was about fixing our cap and getting into a position to where we could use added draft capital to find new leadership because the old guard (Kyle, EWood, Lorenzo, Shady, etc.) was mostly just old. 

 

Feel free to take issue with the players they've chosen to bring in but trading or letting walk guys like Dareus, Glenn, Sammy, etc. was the right move. 

[dubs]

The other thing worth noting is that for years people were begging the Bills to do anything it took to get up and grab a QB high in the draft. That the hit rate was much higher the higher picked a QB was. Also lamenting the fact that picking in the teens every year would mean giving up a fortune to get up that high. 

 

Beane was able to get up to 7 and get a QB (we will see how he does) and actually have another first round pick in the same year and a pick in every round the following year!  All while making the playoffs the previous year which means they were picking 23rd!  That’s pretty incredible. 

 

 

[Big Gun]

19 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It really is amazing how the narrative totally dismisses the fact that teams like the Jags were picking high every year....picking in the top college talent......most of those defensive players are high jags draft picks.......most of the offense for that matter

Since 2014 Jags had 38 draft picks and 10 are starters

3 - 1st rounders

3 - 2nd rounders

3 - 3rd rounders

1 - 5th rounder

 

Since 2014 Bills have had 34 draft picks and 8 are starters

4 - 1st rounders

2 - 2nd rounders

1 - 3rd rounder

1 - 5th rounder (K Williams was a 2006 draft pick so maybe yo could make it 2 - 5th rounders)

 

Can't speak for the Jags but the Bills also have former high draft picks starting all over the league Darby, Ragland, Watkins, Brown, little bit older guys are Gilmore, Dareus, Glenn, Woods, Goodwin, Bradham. It's not like the Bills have drafted bad.

[Jauronimo]

14 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Did you even read the OP? This wasn't about getting rid of Whaley's guys. It was about fixing our cap and getting into a position to where we could use added draft capital to find new leadership because the old guard (Kyle, EWood, Lorenzo, Shady, etc.) was mostly just old. 

 

Feel free to take issue with the players they've chosen to bring in but trading or letting walk guys like Dareus, Glenn, Sammy, etc. was the right move. 

Dareus, Sammy, and Glenn were the "old guard" and just old?

[Bing Bong]

I heard Whaley signed Star for way too much money overpay for sure. Good riddance Whaley

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Since 2014 Jags had 38 draft picks and 10 are starters

3 - 1st rounders

3 - 2nd rounders

3 - 3rd rounders

1 - 5th rounder

 

Since 2014 Bills have had 34 draft picks and 8 are starters

4 - 1st rounders

2 - 2nd rounders

1 - 3rd rounder

1 - 5th rounder (K Williams was a 2006 draft pick so maybe yo could make it 2 - 5th rounders)

 

Can't speak for the Jags but the Bills also have former high draft picks starting all over the league Darby, Ragland, Watkins, Brown, little bit older guys are Gilmore, Dareus, Glenn, Woods, Goodwin, Bradham. It's not like the Bills have drafted bad.

Have the jags been picking ahead of us?