billsfan89 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I dont know At what point does a high first round pick DE actually show that he can play better then undrafted free agents? I root for him.....but I just have this bad feeling now that they have a guy in front of him in the line up in Murphy It's not looking good, but there is still plenty of time for him to turn it around. Shaq looked like a legit NFL level player last year, so I certainly think he has a shot at turning things around. I think we get so knee jerk with day to day reports that we don't really allow for things to play out the way they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Joe Miner said: Some people can just admit they were wrong. Narcissist. He wasnt wrong. If Whaley had taken Lynch and showed a commitment generally to finding a franchise QB, he’d probably still be here. You can justify a failed QB pick to your bosses. What was the point of the Lawson pick? How do you justify that pick when you still don’t have a QB? Hell, the linked thread mentions that the Cowboys tried to trade for the Bills’ pick so they could take Lynch but Whaley said no - so the Cowboys lucked out on Prescott instead (because they were focused on drafting a QB). Whaley could’ve traded the pick and taken Jack (as many of us here were begging him to do) or just taken Jack there... but staying put and taking Lawson was inexcusable given the position and the opportunity cost and lo and behold, that was the last draft Doug Whaley ran on his own and he is no longer an NFL GM. When you factor in the trade that was passed on - the Bills essentially took Lawson over an extra 2nd and 3rd and next year’s 1st or whatever it was - and the guy was injured and isn’t even a pass rusher when healthy. This isn’t hindsight, it’s foresight - look at the draft day thread, some of us were saying these things at the time! Edited July 29, 2018 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) He was a bad pick from the word jump. He was never a tweener DE/OLB, he was always too big and slow for that. If anything he was a DE/DT. I never thought he was a pass rush guy even at Clemson. He used his size to dominate at times but he didn't jump out with nice pass rush moves. They drafted him because Rex was close to him, that should have been shot down. Not his fault he was drafted where he was. Edited July 29, 2018 by thenorthremembers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 52 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: He was a bad pick from the word jump. He was never a tweener DE/OLB, he was always too big and slow for that. If anything he was a DE/DT. I never thought he was a pass rush guy even at Clemson. He used his size to dominate at times but he didn't jump out with nice pass rush moves. They drafted him because Rex was close to him, that should have been shot down. Not his fault he was drafted where he was. He should be paying Ronnie Stanley big bucks, that spin move was played constantly throughout the draft process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: He wasnt wrong. If Whaley had taken Lynch and showed a commitment generally to finding a franchise QB, he’d probably still be here. You can justify a failed QB pick to your bosses. What was the point of the Lawson pick? How do you justify that pick when you still don’t have a QB? Hell, the linked thread mentions that the Cowboys tried to trade for the Bills’ pick so they could take Lynch but Whaley said no - so the Cowboys lucked out on Prescott instead (because they were focused on drafting a QB). Whaley could’ve traded the pick and taken Jack (as many of us here were begging him to do) or just taken Jack there... but staying put and taking Lawson was inexcusable given the position and the opportunity cost and lo and behold, that was the last draft Doug Whaley ran on his own and he is no longer an NFL GM. When you factor in the trade that was passed on - the Bills essentially took Lawson over an extra 2nd and 3rd and next year’s 1st or whatever it was - and the guy was injured and isn’t even a pass rusher when healthy. This isn’t hindsight, it’s foresight - look at the draft day thread, some of us were saying these things at the time! Ah the chorus of we were right. Good to see he has backup singers. Paxton Lynch. Own it. Admit it. Don't get so high and mighty with your opinions. Edited July 29, 2018 by Joe Miner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Joe Miner said: Ah the chorus of we were right. Good to see he has backup singers. Paxton Lynch. Own it. Admit it. Don't get so high and mighty with your opinions. Are you going to own that you were wrong about Shaq or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Commonsense said: He should be paying Ronnie Stanley big bucks, that spin move was played constantly throughout the draft process. And the Dwight Freeney comparisons. It was a bad draft for pass rushers, and it's not like he was a top ten pick. Clemson had a great d line that year but something about both ends, Shaq and Kevin Dodd seemed to scream plodding. Feel like maybe he would be better suited to gain weight and play inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 he's getting traded later in camp for a 4th or 5th round pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 11 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Are you going to own that you were wrong about Shaq or? Not meant for me, but I'll freely admit I thought Robert Nkemdiche was a beast that year. Wanted him in the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 49 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Are you going to own that you were wrong about Shaq or? Sure. Thought he could have been good for the Bills. He's been a major disappointment. Good luck getting that group to ever admit they were wrong about anything. But they'll definitely let you know when someone else was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Fraizer just essentially squashed anything negative about Shaq. With his “way to young to say make or break”. Best football ahead talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I don't think Shaq is on roster bubble. Even if he struggles and can't start at DE then he makes a really good backup DE for a pretty cheap price. I think he could atleast establish a role where he comes off the bench on running down in place of Hughes. Lawson is really good at setting the edge. So him and Murphy at the End positions make a lot of sense on running downs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Fraizer just essentially squashed anything negative about Shaq. With his “way to young to say make or break”. Best football ahead talk. Sounds like what you say about a player right before you trade him. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: And the Dwight Freeney comparisons. It was a bad draft for pass rushers, and it's not like he was a top ten pick. Clemson had a great d line that year but something about both ends, Shaq and Kevin Dodd seemed to scream plodding. Feel like maybe he would be better suited to gain weight and play inside. So just out of curiosity why do you think he is dropping weight instead of bulking up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Fully guaranteed contract. And we're already hanging a huge dead cap number. Only way I trade him is if the depth guys behind him out perform him. Doesn't matter if he's better than Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 4 hours ago, KRT88 said: he's getting traded later in camp for a 4th or 5th round pick. ...so if he has a lousy camp, who would be THAT taker?.....just curious...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 14 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I dont know At what point does a high first round pick DE actually show that he can play better then undrafted free agents? I root for him.....but I just have this bad feeling now that they have a guy in front of him in the line up in Murphy My point was that camp needs to play out more. 2 so-so practices does not a training camp make. You have to let it play out more. Players are in shape conditioning wise but there is still football rust to be worked out. Shaq is a player who is a little bit smaller than he was playing at in the past, probably needs a week or so to get used to playing at that weight. If its week 2-3 of pre-season and Shaq can't hack it then we have a real problem. Also Shaq doesn't have to beat out Murphy to stay on the roster. Shaq can make the roster as a backup/rotational player. The Eagles and Jags showed that you need a full unit of rotational guys to be effective pass rush wise. Shaq has to be the 4th best DE on the roster to make the team. Shaq is on a cheap contract so there is no reason they wouldn't keep him as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 4 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Fraizer just essentially squashed anything negative about Shaq. With his “way to young to say make or break”. Best football ahead talk. He never said his best football would be with the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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