Jobot Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr. K said: When did the national anthem get identified with our military and its members? It did not used to represent that, or only that. The whole forced patriotism thing sickens me. The people who are most vociferously "patriotic" in public are often the ones who least understand U.S. history, and the founders, and the Constitution. Patriotism has become a business and a club to beat the people who disagree with the policies pursued by politicians. Forced public displays of patriotism are like public displays of religion: the louder and more insistent they are, the hollower they sound. It began when the US military began paying hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars to promote... the US military. I'd say 'propaganda' but ppl would get offended, but that's basically the same thing as advertising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Jobot said: I don't actually care about this issue at all. The reason for the rule change was that the league owners didn't like the impact to their bottom line $$. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that anyone on the business side of the NFL acted this way out of patriotism. What I continue to find odd is how many people seem to begrudge the owners having this mindset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: The playing of the national anthem before sporting events violates the solemnity of the the anthem itself. It serves to cheapen rather than glorify. And the NFL further cheapens it by accepting money to stage these phony displays of "patriotism." Sinclair Lewis was right. "Don't play the anthem before sports" takes emerged around the same time as Mr. Pig Socks. I wonder why. Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, BillsVet said: You're at Ft. Hood? LOL Conflating the idea of ratings being down does not remove the fact the NFL has taken a hit in viewership, particularly since 2016. And I suspect that this coincides with the protests, although other things have happened. This is the logical fallacy called, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." Correlation is not causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, KD in CA said: What I continue to find odd is how many people seem to begrudge the owners having this mindset. Read my first sentence in the post.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: "Don't play the anthem before sports" takes emerged around the same time as Mr. Pig Socks. I wonder why. Wrong. There has been debate on the subject for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jobot said: Read my first sentence in the post.. Yeah, I did. And obviously was commening on a different portion of your post, as indicated by the boldface. But thanks for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dr. K said: This is the logical fallacy called, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." Correlation is not causation. If you don't believe that the protests have had an effect on viewership and attendance, then you are either a fool or an idiot. The owners damn sure recognized both the correlation and causation. Otherwise they would have taken no action at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: Wrong. There has been debate on the subject for decades. Maybe there has. But it was a fringe topic. No one complained about the National Anthem at that Yankees game after 9/11. No one complained about the National Anthem in Super Bowl 25 after the start of the Gulf War. Go watch those videos again and tell me those were cheap displays of patriotism. Go tell me you don't feel ANYTHING. And I'll call you a liar. Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Yep and the Hypocritical open Violation of the US Flag code. But yes Kneeling is disrespect There's something seriously wrong with you on this topic. The protesters meant to be disrespectful - that was the point to have their message heard. Seems to me you're the one spitting in their face - not the ones who don't even agree with their premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, White Linen said: There's something seriously wrong with you on this topic. The protesters meant to be disrespectful - that was the point to have their message heard. Seems to me you're the one spitting in their face - not the ones who don't even agree with their premise. Don't want to get between you and MAJBobby here, but it seems to me you're implying that protest is inherently disrespectful. Am I misunderstanding your intent here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I wonder what the kneelers will do on Memorial Day? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Stop being offended by nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Maybe there has. But it was a fringe topic. No one complained about the National Anthem at that Yankees game after 9/11. No one complained about the National Anthem in Super Bowl 25 after the start of the Gulf War. Go watch those videos again and tell me those were cheap displays of patriotism. Go tell me you don't feel ANYTHING. And I'll call you a liar. As if the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and the start of the Gulf War were the same as any other time. As if the thousands of times the anthem has been played at sporting events before and since those events rose to the same level of attached emotion and feeling of national pride. Can you honestly tell me you've experienced that exact level of high emotion EVERY time you've heard the anthem before or after those events? Do you get out of your chair at home to stand EVERY time you hear it on television before a game? People are free to "feel" whatever they want when hearing that song. From pride when it's played while welcoming a returning veteran home to revulsion when seeing it played at a white supremacists rally and everything in between. Regardless, the playing of the anthem commands a certain solemnity. And playing it at raucous sporting events cheapens it far more often than it inspires people. Especially with the NFL and other sports leagues getting paid big money to stage such phony displays to advertise for the military. Edited May 25, 2018 by K-9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, bmur66 said: I wonder what the kneelers will do on Memorial Day? Have cookouts and drink beer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 None of this would be an issue of this country wasn't lettered with so many ignorant, simple/closed minded people, many of which watch NFL telecasts. Also, none of this would be an issue if the league wasn't receiving money from the armed forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, bmur66 said: I wonder what the kneelers will do on Memorial Day? Are people honestly this stupid? People have said nine million times it has nothing to do with the military. In fact, Kaepernick was sitting and switched to kneeling after talking to Nate Boyer, who served. Stop being dumb. And it’s hilarious all the fake patriots that have suddenly emerged. I’m a better American than you BS. Forcing people to do something is stuff they do in North Korea. I love how this idiot in office has conned his “base” into thinking he gives 2 craps about anyone but himself. Patriotism isn’t forcing people to salute the flag. It’s about making people want to salute the flag. i won’t take a knee but it’s sad that some people can’t have empathy others. It’s also pathetic that people had no problem with the scumbags who have been in the nfl for year but yet this is where they draw their line. 13 minutes ago, Gugny said: Have cookouts and drink beer. That’s what real Americans do!!! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said: I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great. That nails it. Our history is one of protest, and revolution. We are not United Kingdom West are we? Strange how even our own history is constantly subject to revisionists who demand compliance in the name of being a good American. Oh, I'm a veteran of our of military also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 42 minutes ago, White Linen said: There's something seriously wrong with you on this topic. The protesters meant to be disrespectful - that was the point to have their message heard. Seems to me you're the one spitting in their face - not the ones who don't even agree with their premise. Wrong.... Even they said it was no disrespect to the Military and or everything. But go violate the US Flag Code on Monday. Glass Houses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 47 minutes ago, Dr. K said: This is the logical fallacy called, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." Correlation is not causation. That's nice. I took Latin for a few years as well. There are many reasons why the NFL is losing audience, one of which is players protesting during the anthem is not received well by many in the general public. The NFL's ratings issued started in 2016 and I'm cannot be solely attributed to these protests. But they are most certainly part of the league's issues, or else they wouldn't have taken the step of instituting this new policy. Alea iacta est. The only reason this policy change has occurred is that the NFL is losing money. If the league was making as much as they were and TV ratings were high, ownership and the commissioner wouldn't care at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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