Peevo Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 We're all aware the NFL Offseason program is strict in terms of how much actual physical practice time the players get in football drills. For a complete list of rules, click here. Since Josh Allen himself continues to talk about how much work he has to do on his footwork and mechanics, how much can he really get from the team before we're in Training Camp? Once OTA's/Minicamp end, is Josh Allen PROHIBITED from doing footwork drills / passing drills on his own time? Can he work on these things in addition to strength and cardio training he's surely already doing everyday anyway? How can the Bills maximize the time they have to train a raw prospect before preseason opens if the offseason workout regimen is so prohibitive? Is this making fundamental football worse? This may be a completely separate topic, but it seems like so many talented, but raw, football players enter pro ball with such few technical abilities, like solo tackling, catching, holding onto the football with two hands, etc, that they never seem to correct these issues before it catches up to them in game action. Since there's no formal prospect development system in football, guys like Allen, who COULD be really good, tend to flame out on bad teams because they simply don't have enough time to teach them the position. I recognize the rationale for limited practices. Somebody VERY important will blow his knee out on the first day of OTA's, and the lead column on ESPN/ProFootballTalk will be "Why OTA's need to end, now.." This is a nuanced argument. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm very concerned there just isn't enough practice time in the offseason schedule to get a rookie QB ready. How does he really learn the game? Live reps. He makes mistakes, the team struggles, and fans get antsy for change. Coaches get fired. New systems, new terminology, new players and the process repeats itself. We could be onto the 3rd OC in 3 seasons under McBeane should Allen predictably show flashes, but struggle with an NFL passing offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) I believe that Allen can work with Palmer as much as he wants in the offseason CBA stuff limits how much Allen can practice with Bills coaches once rookie minicamp and stuff opens up Edited May 7, 2018 by Buffalo716 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 you cant stop someone from working to improve on their own lol...could you imagine that? Of course the kid can work on his own on footwork/passing/play book whatever. He can even hire his own coaches to help him, they just cant be Bills coaches. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 He can work on whatever he wants whenever he wants. Just not with the coaches I believe. Could be wrong on the exact terms, but he can work on his game 7 days a week if he chooses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 He'll be using the new VR QB development system accumulating years of real game experience before he takes his first snap in pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Peevo said: We're all aware the NFL Offseason program is strict in terms of how much actual physical practice time the players get in football drills. For a complete list of rules, click here. Since Josh Allen himself continues to talk about how much work he has to do on his footwork and mechanics, how much can he really get from the team before we're in Training Camp? Once OTA's/Minicamp end, is Josh Allen PROHIBITED from doing footwork drills / passing drills on his own time? Can he work on these things in addition to strength and cardio training he's surely already doing everyday anyway? How can the Bills maximize the time they have to train a raw prospect before preseason opens if the offseason workout regimen is so prohibitive? Is this making fundamental football worse? This may be a completely separate topic, but it seems like so many talented, but raw, football players enter pro ball with such few technical abilities, like solo tackling, catching, holding onto the football with two hands, etc, that they never seem to correct these issues before it catches up to them in game action. Since there's no formal prospect development system in football, guys like Allen, who COULD be really good, tend to flame out on bad teams because they simply don't have enough time to teach them the position. I recognize the rationale for limited practices. Somebody VERY important will blow his knee out on the first day of OTA's, and the lead column on ESPN/ProFootballTalk will be "Why OTA's need to end, now.." This is a nuanced argument. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm very concerned there just isn't enough practice time in the offseason schedule to get a rookie QB ready. How does he really learn the game? Live reps. He makes mistakes, the team struggles, and fans get antsy for change. Coaches get fired. New systems, new terminology, new players and the process repeats itself. We could be onto the 3rd OC in 3 seasons under McBeane should Allen predictably show flashes, but struggle with an NFL passing offense. I don't think he can work with Culley or Daboll at all outside OTAs. It's definitely a problem for QB development, from what I hear. They can have "casual conversations", "how ya hanging? Need any help finding a house?" kind of thing. If those casual conversations are outside the facility on personal cell phones and include "oh by the way..." play questions, I dunno who's to know. As far as I know, he can work with Jordan Palmer on footwork and throwing drills as much as he wants. I believe if he wants, he can call up the Bills WR and ask them to play catch with him. The team may ask him to restrict that. What I don't know is, can he take the playbook off with him, and can he show that to Jordan Palmer and study it with Palmer? I imagine both would depend upon what kind of relationship/trust Culley, Daboll and McDermott have with Palmer and how dicey they feel about having another set of fingers mixing in Allen's development. 5 minutes ago, pi2000 said: He'll be using the new VR QB development system accumulating years of real game experience before he takes his first snap in pre-season. Do we know if the Bills use that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 a lot of nfl qbs actually run camps outside of the team activities. They invite their wr's te's and work on timing and patterns. He can work with anyone he wants except bills coaches. Im sure there are going to be plenty of ppl that he has the advantage of working with while off with the bills. Hopefully he takes advantage of this and gets that footwork corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said: a lot of nfl qbs actually run camps outside of the team activities. They invite their wr's te's and work on timing and patterns. He can work with anyone he wants except bills coaches. Im sure there are going to be plenty of ppl that he has the advantage of working with while off with the bills. Hopefully he takes advantage of this and gets that footwork corrected I'm curious if there is a gray area for the coaches. The rules say they are club organized activities. What's stopping a player from hosting a camp/workout and inviting a coach? That is a player run practice, not a club practice. Edited May 7, 2018 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think he can work with Culley or Daboll at all outside OTAs. It's definitely a problem for QB development, from what I hear. They can have "casual conversations", "how ya hanging? Need any help finding a house?" kind of thing. If those casual conversations are outside the facility on personal cell phones and include "oh by the way..." play questions, I dunno who's to know. As far as I know, he can work with Jordan Palmer on footwork and throwing drills as much as he wants. I believe if he wants, he can call up the Bills WR and ask them to play catch with him. The team may ask him to restrict that. What I don't know is, can he take the playbook off with him, and can he show that to Jordan Palmer and study it with Palmer? I imagine both would depend upon what kind of relationship/trust Culley, Daboll and McDermott have with Palmer and how dicey they feel about having another set of fingers mixing in Allen's development. Do we know if the Bills use that? What I wonder is this. Can a guy like Allen hire Palmer, then have Palmer in contact with Daboll to see what Daboll would like him to focus on? I would think as long as Allen pays out of pocket they can't stop Palmer (as long as Bills dont give him money) from talking to Buffalo coaches and gaining guidence from them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 52 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said: What I wonder is this. Can a guy like Allen hire Palmer, then have Palmer in contact with Daboll to see what Daboll would like him to focus on? I would think as long as Allen pays out of pocket they can't stop Palmer (as long as Bills dont give him money) from talking to Buffalo coaches and gaining guidence from them. I don't know. I think there's a "trust/competitive advantage" situation to be worked out there. Palmer has a relationship with QB on other teams, including Darnold with the division-rival Jets. In addition to having enough knowledge of the guy and personal relationship that the Bills coaches would be comfortable working with him, the Buffalo Bills would probably want to have some sort of non-disclosure agreement in place with Palmer. And if they have that, then would there be complications with the CBA? This is way above my fan-level understanding to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeane Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Well if you take a grain of salt from this story about this dumba$$ leaving his BMW unlocked.... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/07/bears-rookie-roquan-smith-has-team-issued-ipad-stolen-from-his-car/ And if the Bills are anything like the Bears, they probably gave him a similar tablet pre-loaded with a playbook. If they did, it is realistic to believe that Allen would start working on some of the plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said: What I wonder is this. Can a guy like Allen hire Palmer, then have Palmer in contact with Daboll to see what Daboll would like him to focus on? I would think as long as Allen pays out of pocket they can't stop Palmer (as long as Bills dont give him money) from talking to Buffalo coaches and gaining guidence from them. Exactly what i wws thinking and exactly what i would do if i was in that office building. You completely dodge the rule of work time in NFl, but if the rookie wants to be the best you set him up with a proper QB trainer/guru/jedi master for the kid to apprentice as. You invest a high pick in the kid, well invest in his proper development. Get him around the right people and situations with the resources he needs to flourish. This is how boom or busts work. You need to light the wisk on that powder keg and teach it to hit its target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 hours ago, pi2000 said: He'll be using the new VR QB development system accumulating years of real game experience before he takes his first snap in pre-season. Aka, Madden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 hours ago, PaattMaann said: you cant stop someone from working to improve on their own lol...could you imagine that? Of course the kid can work on his own on footwork/passing/play book whatever. He can even hire his own coaches to help him, they just cant be Bills coaches. I have to speculate to the contrary. My understanding is that the NFL has a standing army of operatives scouring the gyms, parks, playing fields and back yards of this great nation to insure that no forbidden practice by NFL players is taking place. I for one sleep better knowing that the watchful eyes of the ever vigilant agents of NFL Security are insuring player compliance with the NFLPA contract. Under his Eye. Blessed be the turf. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 My guess is he is working with Palmer right now on footwork stuff but....lets not burn the kid out.....lots of work ahead of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsam4031 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 19 hours ago, The Wiz said: I'm curious if there is a gray area for the coaches. The rules say they are club organized activities. What's stopping a player from hosting a camp/workout and inviting a coach? That is a player run practice, not a club practice. that's a good question id imagine they are not allowed to do that but there are loopholes in every rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 He can work on his own all he wants and see if guys want to work out with him on their own time as well. Tyrod used to get everyone together and have a week where they all put in work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 18 hours ago, Mickey said: I have to speculate to the contrary. My understanding is that the NFL has a standing army of operatives scouring the gyms, parks, playing fields and back yards of this great nation to insure that no forbidden practice by NFL players is taking place. I for one sleep better knowing that the watchful eyes of the ever vigilant agents of NFL Security are insuring player compliance with the NFLPA contract. Under his Eye. Blessed be the turf. lol... I heard they sub-contracted this monitoring you speak of, to the Patriots off the field investigative staff called "Cheaters". Who could do it better?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 21 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I believe that Allen can work with Palmer as much as he wants in the offseason CBA stuff limits how much Allen can practice with Bills coaches once rookie minicamp and stuff opens up This. The Players Association only wants to limit what the teams in the league can force on players contractually or coerce them into doing with so called "optional" torkouts that players feel obligated to do in order to hold on to their roster spots. What players do on their own without team supervision is the business of the players alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I understand he's not supposed to be working with Bills coaches, but I would be absolutely floored if this staff didn't have a complete offseason QB manuel for him to take home, with a set routine to work on fundamentals daily. All the have to do is put the word If in front of everything so it looks like a suggestion. If you wanted to work on your mechanics a good drill to do daily would be this, or if you wanted to improve your footwork, here is a thing you can do. Allen has to do the work himself, he has to want to be better. All the coaches can do is advise and critique. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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