EXACTLY why I think Beane blew the '18 draft. -Rd. 1

[#34fan]

****LONG POST, but worth it, (i think)****

 

Some of you have gotten riled over my takes on these draft picks... You may think it's a matter of me simply  "not liking" these players, or "favoring" others which is total bullsh_t. I didn't like this draft because I saw a legit chance for this team to grab generational talent... The kids that get you to superbowls. -All OBD had to do, was NOT take the bait!  Justifiably, some of you are asking for an explanation, which I'll gladly provide in a round-by-round format.

 

Rd. 1

Josh Allen, 7th overall...Cost #12 #53 and #56 pick

In a word? -Disastrous. I didn't think any 2018 QB's could help BUF's situation, but I found this pick to be particularly bad. Not a single D1 program thought anything of this kid coming out of H.S.... In fairness, they could have missed something... Happens all the time.. Except no one liked him coming out of JC either! He ended up at WYO, but really wanted to play at Fresno State!

 

How bad did Allen want to play at Fresno State???

 

-Josh Allen wanted to play at Fresno State so bad, he wrote them a "pitch" letter throwing shade on a shorter, lighter, competitor. -It didn't work.

This is a kid, who in his BEST year as a D1 QB (2016) threw 28 TD's, AND led the Mountain West Conference with 15 picks! He's been a sub 60% passer at every playing level. -High School, JC, and College. He NEVER led WYO to a collegiate record better than 8-5! -Really? -Against such vaunted competition as San Jose State, and New Mexico?  Allen didn't throw as many picks (6) his final year, but his production as a passer also decreased dramatically from 3203 passing yards in '16 to 1812 passing yards in '17... I'll concede that sheer arm strength makes Allen an intriguing prospect, but ANY other year, and this kid is a mid-late 2nd round pick. However, the manipulative shield would have it's way. -With us, unfortunately.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, 16th overall... Cost #22 and #65

A pick I wasn't very fond of... Big guy? -Check. Fast guy? -Check. Tremendous athlete in general? -Check?  Personally, I don't think he diagnoses well enough (at his level)to merit the sacrifice... He frequently bit hard on fakes and mis-directions at the collegiate level... Plays won't get any easier to diagnose in the pros, and there's a chance he'll get exposed a lot... I can definitely see him as a passrusher ... Maybe stand-up 4-3 DE... My concern is that once these flaws are exposed, the coaching staff won't be able to effectively re-purpose his skill set.

 

What we missed out on.

We stay put at 12, there's a clear shot at the best DT prospect, I think, since Marcell Dareus. -Da'ron Payne(#13 to WAS)... Even if Beane was just looking at NFL draft grades, he would have seen a significantly higher one for this kid... "Pro-bowl potential" is what I read on his breakdown... But hey,  -f___k what the self-interested league thinks! Let's look at film, and this kid's production in games.-Which is NUTS...  If there's a D-Tackle in CFB with a quicker get-off I sure  haven't seen it! -You won't see a ton of sacks because Payne spent the last two season soaking up the run, and drawing double teams at NT so other guys could finish...  He simply couldn't be single-blocked at the collegiate level... Harrison Phillips is a VERY good player, but Payne is just a phenomenon for an interior DL. 

 

Had we we stayed put at 22, Stud Tackle Isaiah Wynn (#23 to NE) was waiting along with WR DJ Moore (#24 to CAR)  -Either pick helps this team win games from day one!  Wynn is an absolute mauler who finished a fabulous season (including the Senior Bowl) with a torn Labrum! This kid is going to keep your QB dry for YEARS, plus build a standard the rest of the line will have to follow! -BUF's O-line is in tatters after the departure of Wood, Glenn and Incognito...  However, If Wynn's injury scared you off, DJ Moore, had a skill set coveted by many NFL teams... Elite speed in pads, elusiveness, YAC for days... and reliable hands that consistently make difficult catches... In three years, this kid had 8 different QB's throwing to him including 3 true freshmen, and STILL was big-ten receiver of the year in 2017.  Who DOESN'T want that on their team?   -Brandon Beane. That's who.

 

Now flame your little hearts away.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by #34fan

[Peace Frog]

Interesting take you have there.  I won't flame you, though.  I liked our draft and thought Beane did an admirable job.  Are you sure you're not SaviorPeterman?

Edited April 30, 2018 by Peace Frog

[Rico]

Redskins blew it big-time, they should've taken Edmunds instead of Payne.

[r00tabaga]

So glad you aren't our GM.

[fansince88]

Ok. Your opinion has been revealed. ...

[Success]

The long post part of the header was correct.

[suorangefan4]

17 minutes ago, #34fan said:

He NEVER led WYO to a collegiate record better than 8-5! -Really? -Against such vaunted competition as San Jose State, and New Mexico?

 

He was 8-3 this past season. They went 0-2 in the two games he missed including a loss to that San Jose St. team.

 

I'm skeptical drafting players with a lack of production but the team he was on was terrible and wouldn't win many games without him. He does miss some throws he needs to make but he also makes some throws that a lot of QBs can't make.

Edited April 30, 2018 by suorangefan4

[Patrick Duffy]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, "Spare Tire" Dixon.

[gobills1212]

Good grief... if the Bills put HALF the amount of effort into playing as some people do complaining we'd have super bowl wins out the wazoo.

 

Ya didnt like the qb? Wrong guy? Great.

Be pissed for a day.

Hell, take 2.

At the end, if you are a fan of the team - man up and accept it.

Dont like it? Go hop on the Pat's bandwagon before it derails in a year or two.

Just dont come back when its over..

[dlonce]

Where did you find Allen’s sub 60% completion numbers from high school and Junior college from?

Is there a link to them.

[Teddy KGB]

Aren’t you wrong about the draft every year ?

 

??????????

[SinceThe70s]

17 minutes ago, #34fan said:

Justifiably, some of you are asking for an explanation

 

Couldn't you have just PM'd the two of them?

 

And please confirm that the Rd 1 suffix is like History of the Word Part 1 and there will be no Rd/Part 2.

[dabills21]

Time will tell how this draft pans out. but one thing is for sure, you NEED a great qb to be the best in the NFL.  Josh has as much upside as any of the top Qbs this year, and when you analyze how his skill set compares to others in the NFL, he has the potential to be as effective as Big Ben or Carson Wentz down the line. 

 

He might not be the 'safest pick' of the draft, but NFL front offices understand the premium and how difficult it is to find franchise Qbs...it is the most difficult position to transition grom college to NFL.

 

All that said, if you think adding a defensive tackle is what it takes to put this franchise into super bowl contention, then you probably have bigger issues to sort out.  

 

As for Edmunds, go check what Minnesota fans thunk of Anthony Barr.  He and Trumaine are cut from the same cloth.

[MarlinTheMagician]

19 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Interesting take you have there.  I won't flame you, though.  I liked our draft and thought Beane did an admirable job.  Are you sure you're not SaviorPeterman?

 

Should have flamed him. That's some crazy take.

****LONG POST, but worth it, (i think)****

 

Not remotely 

[MJS]

No end to the armchair GM's.

[Victory Formation]

You want a DT over a QB??? Really? We signed Lotulelei and we drafted a steal in Harrison Phillips. What QB could we of had at #96?

 

You would rather take an OT or a WR over a generational talent at LB? What QB will Wynn protect? Who will get Moore the ball?? Edmunds is the best LB in the draft and has the potential to be the best LB in the entire NFL.

Edited April 30, 2018 by NewDayBills

[Fadingpain]

Allen is EJ 2.0.  

 

He has all the physical attributes you dream of.  Problem is he can't play QB.

 

Over time it will become obvious he doesn't have it and everyone here will start to clamor for a new QB.

 

Christ, Rex Ryan enjoyed a lot of support around here too when the hire was first announced.  

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

You want a DT over a QB??? Really? We signed Lotulelei and we drafted a steal in Harrison Phillips. What QB could we of had at #96?

 

Kyle Lauletta.  Drafted #108  Whom I like, actually.  (Could presumably have had others if we kept our 2nd round picks)

 

But I certainly wouldn't think AJ McCarron and Kyle Lauletta would be a praise-worthy sufficient investment at the game's most important position.

[BillsVet]

Says the guy with a Peterman avatar.  

 

I'm still amazed how so many people believe using first round picks on positions of less impact somehow translates to wins when you don't have a QB.   

 

You're not rebuilding by avoiding finding the QB and no combination of DT, OG, WR, et. al is going to fix that. 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Allen is EJ 2.0.  He has all the physical attributes you dream of.  Problem is he can't play QB.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I do think this is a lazy take.  EJ played in a different offense - spread offense, and made half-field reads as I recall.

 

Allen is in an entirely different place as far as his understanding of the pro game and his ability to read a defense.  He can laser in throws EJ could only dream of.

Doesn't mean he'll succeed as an NFL QB as he is mighty raw in some regards.  Does mean EJM is not an apt comparison.

[Victory Formation]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Kyle Lauletta.  Drafted #108  Whom I like, actually.  (Could presumably have had others if we kept our 2nd round picks)

 

But I certainly wouldn't think AJ McCarron and Kyle Lauletta would be a praise-worthy sufficient investment at the game's most important position.

That's fair but I like the fact that we drafted two of the biggest boom or bust prospects in the draft. Allen and Edmunds have a higher ceiling than anyone else at their respective positions. Sure, they could bust but we could also end up with the next Big Ben and Brian Urlacher.

Edited April 30, 2018 by NewDayBills

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Allen is EJ 2.0.  

 

He has all the physical attributes you dream of.  Problem is he can't play QB.

 

Over time it will become obvious he doesn't have it and everyone here will start to clamor for a new QB.

 

Christ, Rex Ryan enjoyed a lot of support around here too when the hire was first announced.  

 

 

 

Over time it will become obvious? Inherent in that statement is that it is not obvious at this moment. If it is not obvious at this moment, then how can you make declarations like "he is EJ 2.0" or "he can't play QB" as if they are fact. Seems all very self-contradictory and confusing.

[#34fan]

22 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

He was 8-3 this past season. They went 0-2 in the two games he missed including a loss to that San Jose St. team.

 

I'm skeptical drafting players with a lack of production but the team he was on was terrible and wouldn't win many games without him. He does miss some throws he needs to make but he also makes some throws that a lot of QBs can't make.

 

The team's season was still 8-5 with him as the full-time starter... That's true even if he only lost to Oregon, Boise St., and Iowa.

[dabills21]

1 minute ago, #34fan said:

 

The team's season was still 8-5 with him as the full-time starter... That's true even if he only lost to Oregon, Boise St., and Iowa.

So with that logic, you're saying that Andrew Luck had a 4-12 season with Indy this past year...hmm

 

Probably better to stick with your original premise that a defensive tackle at pick #12 was your recommendation....now that's something we can all agree with

[Logic]

This post could have been much shorter.

"I didn't like any of the quarterbacks this year, and I thought the Bills should have taken a defensive tackle and an offensive guard instead".

There. Saved you a bunch of words.

[Herc11]

 He received no love out of HS because he hadn't grown into his frame and was small, as well as being from a small HS. Out of JUCO he had grown a little bit, but the Fresno State coach, Tim Deruyter, was a terrible coach. Had he taken Josh, Fresno State wouldn't of had a 3-9 record in '15 and a 1-11 in '16.

[keepthefaith]

51 minutes ago, #34fan said:

****LONG POST, but worth it, (i think)****

 

Some of you have gotten riled over my takes on these draft picks... You may think it's a matter of me simply  "not liking" these players, or "favoring" others which is total bullsh_t. I didn't like this draft because I saw a legit chance for this team to grab generational talent... The kids that get you to superbowls. -All OBD had to do, was NOT take the bait!  Justifiably, some of you are asking for an explanation, which I'll gladly provide in a round-by-round format.

 

Rd. 1

Josh Allen, 7th overall...Cost #12 #53 and #56 pick

In a word? -Disastrous. I didn't think any 2018 QB's could help BUF's situation, but I found this pick to be particularly bad. Not a single D1 program thought anything of this kid coming out of H.S.... In fairness, they could have missed something... Happens all the time.. Except no one liked him coming out of JC either! He ended up at WYO, but really wanted to play at Fresno State!

 

How bad did Allen want to play at Fresno State???

 

-Josh Allen wanted to play at Fresno State so bad, he wrote them a "pitch" letter throwing shade on a shorter, lighter, competitor. -It didn't work.

This is a kid, who in his BEST year as a D1 QB (2016) threw 28 TD's, AND led the Mountain West Conference with 15 picks! He's been a sub 60% passer at every playing level. -High School, JC, and College. He NEVER led WYO to a collegiate record better than 8-5! -Really? -Against such vaunted competition as San Jose State, and New Mexico?  Allen didn't throw as many picks (6) his final year, but his production as a passer also decreased dramatically from 3203 passing yards in '16 to 1812 passing yards in '17... I'll concede that sheer arm strength makes Allen an intriguing prospect, but ANY other year, and this kid is a mid-late 2nd round pick. However, the manipulative shield would have it's way. -With us, unfortunately.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, 16th overall... Cost #22 and #65

A pick I wasn't very fond of... Big guy? -Check. Fast guy? -Check. Tremendous athlete in general? -Check?  Personally, I don't think he diagnoses well enough (at his level)to merit the sacrifice... He frequently bit hard on fakes and mis-directions at the collegiate level... Plays won't get any easier to diagnose in the pros, and there's a chance he'll get exposed a lot... I can definitely see him as a passrusher ... Maybe stand-up 4-3 DE... My concern is that once these flaws are exposed, the coaching staff won't be able to effectively re-purpose his skill set.

 

What we missed out on.

We stay put at 12, there's a clear shot at the best DT prospect, I think, since Marcell Dareus. -Da'ron Payne(#13 to WAS)... Even if Beane was just looking at NFL draft grades, he would have seen a significantly higher one for this kid... "Pro-bowl potential" is what I read on his breakdown... But hey,  -f___k what the self-interested league thinks! Let's look at film, and this kid's production in games.-Which is NUTS...  If there's a D-Tackle in CFB with a quicker get-off I sure  haven't seen it! -You won't see a ton of sacks because Payne spent the last two season soaking up the run, and drawing double teams at NT so other guys could finish...  He simply couldn't be single-blocked at the collegiate level... Harrison Phillips is a VERY good player, but Payne is just a phenomenon for an interior DL. 

 

Had we we stayed put at 22, Stud Tackle Isaiah Wynn (#23 to NE) was waiting along with WR DJ Moore (#24 to CAR)  -Either pick helps this team win games from day one!  Wynn is an absolute mauler who finished a fabulous season (including the Senior Bowl) with a torn Labrum! This kid is going to keep your QB dry for YEARS, plus build a standard the rest of the line will have to follow! -BUF's O-line is in tatters after the departure of Wood, Glenn and Incognito...  However, If Wynn's injury scared you off, DJ Moore, had a skill set coveted by many NFL teams... Elite speed in pads, elusiveness, YAC for days... and reliable hands that consistently make difficult catches... In three years, this kid had 8 different QB's throwing to him including 3 true freshmen, and STILL was big-ten receiver of the year in 2017.  Who DOESN'T want that on their team?   -Brandon Beane. That's who.

 

Now flame your little hearts away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Opinions are great but it'll be a couple years before this draft can be somewhat evaluated. 

[#34fan]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

This post could have been much shorter.

"I didn't like any of the quarterbacks this year, and I thought the Bills should have taken a defensive tackle and an offensive guard instead".

There. Saved you a bunch of words.

 

This post could have been much shorter.

 

God, I'm so alone.

 

There, saved you some words too.

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, #34fan said:

 

This post could have been much shorter.

 

God, I'm so alone.

 

There, saved you some words too.

You're still a Bills fan so you're cool by me. 

[The Red King]

Enough with the absolutes.  That's why OP catches so much flak, and he's not the only one.  All these statements about how we definately overpayed, or how someone will be a bust are grating.  If you can see into the future, buy winning lottery tickets, buy the team, and make any personel decisions you want.  If you cannot see into the future, stop talking as if you can.  Stop posting opinion as foregone conclusion.  Start saying things like "In a few years I believe Allen will be revealed as a bust." or "A few years from now I think it will be clear the 2018 draft was a bust."

[Roundybout]

29 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Allen is EJ 2.0.  

 

He has all the physical attributes you dream of.  Problem is he can't play QB.

 

Over time it will become obvious he doesn't have it and everyone here will start to clamor for a new QB.

 

Christ, Rex Ryan enjoyed a lot of support around here too when the hire was first announced.  

 

 

 

Big differences. Allen has shown ability to thread the needle with anticipation. EJ never did that in any game I ever watched. 

[#34fan]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

You're still a Bills fan so you're cool by me. 

 

None of us has any choice but to see how things play out... A large portion of what we discuss here are simply takes based on perception... No one should read anything deeper into it than that.

[CajunBillsBacker]

I won’t come at you bro because everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and say we should have taken one guy instead of another because you don’t have a clue how any of these prospects will turn out no matter how convinced you are that you think you do.

 

I’ve been waiting since yesterday in another thread for some idiot to explain how he knows we took the wrong Josh.

Edited April 30, 2018 by CajunBillsBacker

[mannc]

I stopped reading at “disastrous”.  

[#34fan]

Just now, CajunBillsBacker said:

I won’t come at you bro because everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and say we should have taken one guy instead of another because you don’t have a clue how any of these prospects will turn out no matter how convinced you are that you think you do.

 

These talented young men are primped, primed, paraded out so they can be PICKED. -So that's what we do...  You have to have SOME clue of how they're going to turn out, or else why even bother? -The risk is that you could be wrong. That means you, me, Beane, -anybody really.

[Golden Goat]

7 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Enough with the absolutes.  That's why OP catches so much flak, and he's not the only one.  All these statements about how we definately overpayed, or how someone will be a bust are grating.  If you can see into the future, buy winning lottery tickets, buy the team, and make any personel decisions you want.  If you cannot see into the future, stop talking as if you can.  Stop posting opinion as foregone conclusion.  Start saying things like "In a few years I believe Allen will be revealed as a bust." or "A few years from now I think it will be clear the 2018 draft was a bust."

 

This should be stickied, imho.

[Carter]

The Allen pick was disasterous. I’ll give you that...

Edited April 30, 2018 by Carter

[metzelaars_lives]

1 hour ago, #34fan said:

****LONG POST, but worth it, (i think)****

 

Some of you have gotten riled over my takes on these draft picks... You may think it's a matter of me simply  "not liking" these players, or "favoring" others which is total bullsh_t. I didn't like this draft because I saw a legit chance for this team to grab generational talent... The kids that get you to superbowls. -All OBD had to do, was NOT take the bait!  Justifiably, some of you are asking for an explanation, which I'll gladly provide in a round-by-round format.

 

Rd. 1

Josh Allen, 7th overall...Cost #12 #53 and #56 pick

In a word? -Disastrous. I didn't think any 2018 QB's could help BUF's situation, but I found this pick to be particularly bad. Not a single D1 program thought anything of this kid coming out of H.S.... In fairness, they could have missed something... Happens all the time.. Except no one liked him coming out of JC either! He ended up at WYO, but really wanted to play at Fresno State!

 

How bad did Allen want to play at Fresno State???

 

-Josh Allen wanted to play at Fresno State so bad, he wrote them a "pitch" letter throwing shade on a shorter, lighter, competitor. -It didn't work.

This is a kid, who in his BEST year as a D1 QB (2016) threw 28 TD's, AND led the Mountain West Conference with 15 picks! He's been a sub 60% passer at every playing level. -High School, JC, and College. He NEVER led WYO to a collegiate record better than 8-5! -Really? -Against such vaunted competition as San Jose State, and New Mexico?  Allen didn't throw as many picks (6) his final year, but his production as a passer also decreased dramatically from 3203 passing yards in '16 to 1812 passing yards in '17... I'll concede that sheer arm strength makes Allen an intriguing prospect, but ANY other year, and this kid is a mid-late 2nd round pick. However, the manipulative shield would have it's way. -With us, unfortunately.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, 16th overall... Cost #22 and #65

A pick I wasn't very fond of... Big guy? -Check. Fast guy? -Check. Tremendous athlete in general? -Check?  Personally, I don't think he diagnoses well enough (at his level)to merit the sacrifice... He frequently bit hard on fakes and mis-directions at the collegiate level... Plays won't get any easier to diagnose in the pros, and there's a chance he'll get exposed a lot... I can definitely see him as a passrusher ... Maybe stand-up 4-3 DE... My concern is that once these flaws are exposed, the coaching staff won't be able to effectively re-purpose his skill set.

 

What we missed out on.

We stay put at 12, there's a clear shot at the best DT prospect, I think, since Marcell Dareus. -Da'ron Payne(#13 to WAS)... Even if Beane was just looking at NFL draft grades, he would have seen a significantly higher one for this kid... "Pro-bowl potential" is what I read on his breakdown... But hey,  -f___k what the self-interested league thinks! Let's look at film, and this kid's production in games.-Which is NUTS...  If there's a D-Tackle in CFB with a quicker get-off I sure  haven't seen it! -You won't see a ton of sacks because Payne spent the last two season soaking up the run, and drawing double teams at NT so other guys could finish...  He simply couldn't be single-blocked at the collegiate level... Harrison Phillips is a VERY good player, but Payne is just a phenomenon for an interior DL. 

 

Had we we stayed put at 22, Stud Tackle Isaiah Wynn (#23 to NE) was waiting along with WR DJ Moore (#24 to CAR)  -Either pick helps this team win games from day one!  Wynn is an absolute mauler who finished a fabulous season (including the Senior Bowl) with a torn Labrum! This kid is going to keep your QB dry for YEARS, plus build a standard the rest of the line will have to follow! -BUF's O-line is in tatters after the departure of Wood, Glenn and Incognito...  However, If Wynn's injury scared you off, DJ Moore, had a skill set coveted by many NFL teams... Elite speed in pads, elusiveness, YAC for days... and reliable hands that consistently make difficult catches... In three years, this kid had 8 different QB's throwing to him including 3 true freshmen, and STILL was big-ten receiver of the year in 2017.  Who DOESN'T want that on their team?   -Brandon Beane. That's who.

 

Now flame your little hearts away.

 

 

 

 

 

Not true, he was 8-3 last year but nothing matters anymore so whatever.

[Bing Bong]

I disagree

Everybody head to my more optimistic post. Those are fun ones

[quinnearlysghost88]

I will wait and see with Allen obviously but woof:

Last year, Wyoming finished 119th in passing S&P+ out of 130 teams in FBS. That will be the lowest rank ever for a quarterback chosen in the top 100 picks of the NFL draft. Yes, I know, Allen wasn’t playing with a bunch of NFL-bound talent around him. He also wasn’t facing a lot of NFL-bound talent on defense. The average opponent faced by Wyoming ranked just 83.5 in pass defense S&P+. Allen’s performance against top opponents was brutal. He threw two picks with no touchdowns against Iowa, with just 4.35 yards per attempt. He completed just 9-of-24 passes with 64 yards and a pick against Oregon. He completed 44 percent of passes with two picks and only 131 yards against Boise State