Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[Soda Popinski]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Jared Goff didn't and neither will Mayfield.

I don't think Mayfield starts regardless of how he plays.   Hue seemed pretty adamant about going with Taylor.  We'll see if that strains his relationship with Dorsey or not.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

39 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're right that we can't be sure in advance.

 

But Gruden said Wentz was the most NFL-ready guy in years.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/one-nfl-analyst-thinks-carson-wentz-is-the-most-nfl-ready-qb-in-years/

 

Plenty of people disagreed at the time but it was a bit more of the "He might not be ready," type of thing than the "the team that drafts him will need to give him time to develop" that had been the consensus on Allen ... until Bills fans found he was on our team and got excited.

Oh, well if Gruden said it it must be true. 

[papazoid]

a legit open competition

 

hopefully they both look great

[Rocbillsfan1]

12 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Everyone has an opinion on if he should start or sit. Unfortunately, none of us know what's TRULY in his best interest and would aide his development the best.

 

For every case of "Yea well Rodgers sat and turned out well" I can throw a "Yea well Russell Wilson never sat".

 

What it simply comes down to in my opinion is...what way does Josh Allen learn the best? Is he the type of learner that can watch others, ask questions and absorb it all in? Is he the kind of,guy that has to feel the moment, get his hands in the dough so to speak and figure it out that way? 

 

That said, my opinion is this. We are a run first team (no matter who is QB) that should have a solid defense. Whoever is the QB to start the season is going to be masked to some extent. If he is the kind of guy that can learn by doing, let him do it. 

Russel Wilson won the job if Allen does too great, if not start whoever does. Also sprinkling in Allen makes zero sense this isn’t college, if someone else wins the job you play them until they fail. 

[26CornerBlitz]

11 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

I don't think Mayfield starts regardless of how he plays.   Hue seemed pretty adamant about going with Taylor.  We'll see if that strains his relationship with Dorsey or not.  

 

Yep. Hue reiterated that yesterday.

[FearLess Price]

Its gonna be a battle AJM has been fighting his whole life for a chsnce to start. Hes not gonna just roll over.

[Soda Popinski]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Yep. Hue reiterated that yesterday.

I did not know that.  

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

What exactly about him is raw?

 

His footwork and decision making, especially under pressure. I'm not sure how Beane defines "raw" but I guess he means that Allen comes from a pro system. I do think Allen's mechanics are raw and if we put him into live games before he's had enough time to correct them they will become ingrained as bad muscle memory. Whether Allen beats out McCarron and Peterman or not nothing this year should be more important than his mechanics developing properly.

[Mat68]

Here is the case to start Allen.  Exhibit A AJ Mccarron.  Exhibit B Nathan Peterman.  I dont hate either but I also expect Allen to to look and be so different that it becomes obvious.  All three are learning a new offense so he is not far behind in that aspect.  Going into training camp and into the preseason I think Allen starts to make the decision for the coaching staff and team.  

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mat68

[Juice_32]

13 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

If there's such a thing as ruining a QB by starting him too soon, Allen's rawness would seem to make him a prime candidate.  Then again, he's used to having unblocked defenders harass him on every play, so there's that.  As for the other guys, I don't consider it a given that McCarron starts over Peterman.

 

It would not shock me if they went with Peterman. This staff genuinely seems to like him.

 

One thing that will be very interesting to watch this year at camp...the velocity difference between noodle armed Nate and AJ compared to Allen.

[T master]

I'm a bit old school i think it would do him good to sit for a while maybe even a yr to get his NFL feet under him like they use to do . 

 

Aaron Rogers & many others have benefitted by sitting & watching how it's done , or how it's not done which Bills fans have a lot of skepticism when it comes to AJ but i think he has benefited him self & will prove worthy of the get .

 

But in the world of the Bills fan he will never be good enough even if he does well & there will be those who will rail against him in any & all situations because they are Bills fans !! 

 

As it will be for Allen too !! GO BILLS !! 

[eball]

13 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

If there's such a thing as ruining a QB by starting him too soon, Allen's rawness would seem to make him a prime candidate.  Then again, he's used to having unblocked defenders harass him on every play, so there's that.  As for the other guys, I don't consider it a given that McCarron starts over Peterman.

 

Brandon Beane would bristle at that statement.

 

I'm rooting for (and predicting) Allen will start W1.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I've gone over it before, he's had experience reading a defense pre-snap and adjusting the protections based on alignments; he's had run-run checks, run-pass checks, and pass-run checks based on alignment or numbers; he's determined his read progressions at the line based on matchups; and he's taken many snaps from under center and isn't unfamiliar with turning his back to the D. Since claiming that this was what I observed watching him on tape and listening to him in interviews, his college OC has come out and confirmed pretty much all of that. His footwork got sloppy at times when he was trying to do too much under fire and making hero plays. That's fine, he can reign that in. He'll need actual game experience to learn what he can and cannot get away with at this level though.

 

What is it exactly that you feel he needs to learn before he can play in an NFL game?

 

My feelings don't matter, but my understanding of what various QB-knowledgeable pundits (and his OC, reading between lines) have said is Allen

1) needs to improve footwork, make it more consistent

2) needs to improve precision of ball placement

3) needs to improve his game-day decision-making, specifically understanding of reads and progressions

4) needs to adjust to the NFL game -faster pace, more complicated and confusing defenses

 

The problem with 1) and 2) is that if his mind is tied up with 3) and 4) before he's worked them into muscle memory, he'll likely revert.

So he needs to get to a point where what he sees in practice and in film room is totally second nature, and where his improved footwork/mechanics are more engrained.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Here is the case to start Allen.  Exhibit A AJ Mccarron.  Exhibit B Nathan Peterman.  I dont hate either but I also expect Allen to to look and be so different that it becomes obvious.  All three are learning a new offense so he is not far behind in that aspect.  Going into training camp and into the preseason I think Allen starts to make the decision for the coaching staff and team.  

 

And if he does that (makes the decision for them, because he just looks so much better) then I'm for it.

[colin]

Allen is gonna win the competition, start day 1, and smoke fools.

 

he'll only be passing a low number of times per game, but there will be long bombs and play action, which will back d off

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

My feelings don't matter, but my understanding of what various QB-knowledgeable pundits (and his OC, reading between lines) have said is Allen

1) needs to improve footwork, make it more consistent

2) needs to improve precision of ball placement

3) needs to improve his game-day decision-making, specifically understanding of reads and progressions

4) needs to adjust to the NFL game -faster pace, more complicated and confusing defenses

 

The problem with 1) and 2) is that if his mind is tied up with 3) and 4) before he's worked them into muscle memory, he'll likely revert.

So he needs to get to a point where what he sees in practice and in film room is totally second nature, and where his improved footwork/mechanics are more engrained.

So that's where we differ then. I believe 1 & 2 are caused by him making 'hero plays' and trying to do too much, which can be reigned in as much by experience on the field as it can be coached off the field. Also I think 3 & 4 will progress much faster if he's actually in the scenarios being reviewed on film instead of just being an eye in the sky. I definitely believe there would be growing pains as he feels out what exactly he can get away with at this level (see Wentz year 1), but I see the experience as invaluable and the single thing he is most lacking. In time we'll see how it plays out though.

[Bray Wyatt]

I think Allen is going to surprise a lot of people

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

For example, EJ Manuel is often held up as an example of a guy who was crippled by starting too soon, but does anyone really think that’s why he wasn’t a successsful NFL qb?

 

This is a question that's impossible to answer for sure. But EJ progressively got worse from his first game with the Bills to his last game with the Bills. We can't know for sure how his career would have gone otherwise but there is decent evidence that starting him early ruined him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So that's where we differ then. I believe 1 & 2 are caused by him making 'hero plays' and trying to do too much, which can be reigned in as much by experience on the field as it can be coached off the field. Also I think 3 & 4 will progress much faster if he's actually in the scenarios being reviewed on film instead of just being an eye in the sky. I definitely believe there would be growing pains as he feels out what exactly he can get away with at this level (see Wentz year 1), but I see the experience as invaluable and the single thing he is most lacking. In time we'll see how it plays out though.

 

I'm sure "hero plays" contribute, but throwing to WR who can't get separation or maybe make mistakes running routes (Beane alluded to this) and behind a porous OL is not going to help.

 

The main thing, though, is when I watch his combine and his private workout with the announcers muted, I still see some of the same problems - less frequently, but still there on some throws.  So it's not just "hero plays", it's a muscle habit he's trying to retrain.  Some people say "easy peasy", some people say "can't be done", I say "give it time to sink in so it has the best chance to be done".

[Mat68]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My feelings don't matter, but my understanding of what various QB-knowledgeable pundits (and his OC, reading between lines) have said is Allen

1) needs to improve footwork, make it more consistent

2) needs to improve precision of ball placement

3) needs to improve his game-day decision-making, specifically understanding of reads and progressions

4) needs to adjust to the NFL game -faster pace, more complicated and confusing defenses

 

The problem with 1) and 2) is that if his mind is tied up with 3) and 4) before he's worked them into muscle memory, he'll likely revert.

So he needs to get to a point where what he sees in practice and in film room is totally second nature, and where his improved footwork/mechanics are more engrained.

 

 

 

And if he does that (makes the decision for them, because he just looks so much better) then I'm for it.

Its never good to just start a young qb because.  That is how you ruin a prospect and lose the lockeroom.  If McCarron or Petermam are clearly better thats who you start.  Now you can go the other way to.  Nowhere in this galaxy was Savage better than Watson.  Why waste all those reps in TC and preseason on guy you give 2 quarters of football to?  Im higher on Allen most.  Of all the rookies him and Rosen are the most equipped to start right away imo.  Mcarron or Peterman would need to clearly and convincingly out perform Allen.  Based off what ive seen that will be a tall order for either.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Jared Goff didn't and neither will Mayfield.

 

Wentz, Winston, Mariota, Newton, RG3, Luck, Bradford, Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Ryan--those are just the recent guys.

 

Why won't Mayfield start?