NoSaint Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, theRalph said: Establish an agreed to catch radius and determine through video analysis how many balls were within it. Accuracy, to me, is a measure of how close you are to your intended target...as we perceive it. Then you'd have to factor in pressure situations that would aggravate accuracy. Haven't heard anyone quote a stat the percentage of throws made under pressure. I watched all the tape and Josh Allen is an accurate passer. Why don’t you hold your own assertion to that standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills4life1924 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: I would disagree with that, because even Allen's QB coach Jordan Palmer freely admits he had accuracy problems, caused by overstepping and foot mechanics. Accuracy was a problem. It has been addressed and his accuracy has improved a great deal. The question is whether that improvement will stick. There's a pretty decent chance it will. But as you say, there are some other issues. Fair enough, I have read and watched palmer's interviews. But even with the foot mechanics, throwing on the run or off balanced he was still putting the ball in a catchable place for his receiver. You made a good point and appreciate the feedback! But for some to say he won't pan out bc he's not accurate is crazy. He's a lot more accurate than those ppl think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said: 16 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said: This is a good point. After I posed my question I got a few very good responses. Those players cited seemed to have one thing in common which was they pretty much went to bottom feeder teams that did not have any plan in place to develop them. I think it is safe to say that the first 5 draft spots go to "bottom feeder" loser teams. After all, it is the worst teams that get to pick first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said: I ask this with complete sincerity: Is there an example that someone can give me of a QB who was highly drafted and whose career was ruined because he played to soon? I honestly wonder about EJ Manuel... He obviously had a lot of problems, but he never should have been played that early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: No, like I said before (in these redundant threads) there is no critical need to rush a rookie quarterback into the starting lineup I said it earlier. In context of Wood and RI retiring and making the OL a question mark that you wouldn't want to put a rookie behind until you know it's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I would like him to sit this year and get his mechanics down and let us get some help on the offensive side of the ball next offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: I wouldn't mind putting him in and letting him take his lumps, but I also don't want to see him "ruined" which can be done by feeding him to the wolves too soon. Can't be ruined by being put in, you either get it or you don't in the NFL. Edited April 30, 2018 by Boca BIlls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: I honestly wonder about EJ Manuel... He obviously had a lot of problems, but he never should have been played that early. I don't have a problem with starting guys from day 1. Unless the OL will get them killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Cease Fires Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) Here's the thing about his accuracy: you can't throw out his drops because that 60 percent or whatever acceptability level has drops accounted for. So then you're looking at more of a 63 to 65 percent accuracy benchmark and naturally Allen fails to meet that. However, you can watch his tape (I like 2017, his worst statistical season) and see a guy running for his life behind a turnstile line on many many plays. A guy who, when he has time and protection, is accurate almost all the time. A guy who had running backs averaging 3 YPC. A guy who played in a program that favored a pro-style passing game with lots of downfield action and few screens. You can see a QB who actually CAN hit swing passes with good ball placement, who DOES use touch on his throws with proficiency. So, I mean, keep the drops because everyone has them. I see a QB who can hit all the throws but needs to do so with consistency. And I do think that if he can get his footwork improved, he will find that consistency. There have already been indications that he's a fast learner so here's hoping. Edited April 30, 2018 by No Cease Fires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I honestly wonder about EJ Manuel... He obviously had a lot of problems, but he never should have been played that early. If you can't play QB day one you never will play QB at a NFL starting level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Boca BIlls said: If you can't play QB day one you never will play QB at a NFL starting level. http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/gamelogs?season=1998 K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/gamelogs?season=1998 K. That doesn't show me anything other than he was ready to play QB day 1. No such thing as playing a QB too early, simple as that. It didn't ruin Payten as you obviously showed. Edited April 30, 2018 by Boca BIlls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 It's all about training camp, although it does seem to be a majority of retired NFL qb's like Warner, Aikman, Gannon etc. that say rookie qb's should get at least half a season on the bench, preferably a full year. I still think the home game in week 9 against the Bears will be the kid's first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Da webster guy said: It's all about training camp, although it does seem to be a majority of retired NFL qb's like Warner, Aikman, Gannon etc. that say rookie qb's should get at least half a season on the bench, preferably a full year. I still think the home game in week 9 against the Bears will be the kid's first game. Week 1 he should be starting. Can't learn to play in the NFL if you don't actually play in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: That doesn't show me anything other than he was ready to play QB day 1. No such thing as playing a QB too early, simple as that. It didn't ruin Payten as you obviously showed. It shows you that he didn't play well to start. He wasn't "ready" day 1, and yet he magically became ready later which is the very thing you said never happened. QB's often times sit on the bench and then play well after time (Aaron Rogers) and QB's often times struggle on day one and figure it out later (Peyton Manning). It didn't ruin Manning, but that doesn't change the fact that starting too soon can hurt a players future because it can build tendencies and habits within the game that are necessitated by survival which are not good for his overall game. It's called training. 4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Week 1 he should be starting. Can't learn to play in the NFL if you don't actually play in the NFL. Does your view on this transition seamlessly to other professions? Gotta get in there on day one and perform heart surgery. Can't learn heart surgery if you don't do heart surgery. Gotta get in there and fly that plane. Only way to learn how to fly is to fly. Gotta go try that case. Only way to be a lawyer is to go and do lawyer things. If the coaches think that Allen is ready to start, then he should. But if they think he needs more time to learn and to grow and to improve, then they should let him sit and learn. Trial by fire can work, but blindly throwing a guy into the flames without him being ready is stupid. Edited April 30, 2018 by whatdrought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, theRalph said: It's Monday and the flow of calls bashing the Josh Allen pick continue. I wonder how many of these callers have actually watched the games and the scouting vids and blogs covering Allen. It feels like drought effects on fans still linger, even though the drought is now history. I define fan drought effects as a a predisposition of looking at anything the team does with negativity, because they've become conditioned to it over a generation of no playoffs. Things have changed. McDermott and Beane in their time so far have done nothing but make smart moves. They have reshaped the locker room. They broke the drought with maybe the last version of the Bills one would have expected. They are certainly and systematically changing the franchise with their process. And yet their selections are being criticized as if they are still Ryan and Whaley. Nix and Gailey. And so on. I watched everything I could find on Josh Allen prior to the draft and then watched it all again after. He is an accurate passer. Period. Completion percentage as a measure of accuracy is horsecrap. Allen was under pressure a lot. I see dropped passes. And under certain pressure he, at times, takes off a bit early. But he generally moves in the pocket well, with a Brady-esque hop avoiding pressure. He releases a football with up to a 74 mph fingertip speed. His release time is an insane .388 seconds. He does not throw balls in the dirt. He has a great football IQ and has run a pro style offense. He was not in a pass-happy college spread that benefitted the stats of some other draftees - like Mayfield. Allen completed 152 of 270 attempts in 2017 for a 56% completion percentage. Had he completed 23 more of these, he has a 65% average. Over 10 games, that's 2.3 drops per game. I saw more than that. The drought is over. Don't look back. Josh Allen, on his way to becoming the most prolific QB in Bills history, will start 9/9/18. Bash away!! Did you read Ben Solak's review on NDT Scouting? Solak's write up Edited April 30, 2018 by Tenhigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeneblitz Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I too believe he'll start this year, I think it's about 50/50 he starts on day one, I'm guessing most of you don't even listen to Brandon Bean interviews, it's clear 2 things, Allen is the only plan, he'll play as soon as he's ready and 2 he'll begin the off-season at #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I personally like the way Peyton Manning was brought into the NFL as a rookie. Let him be aggressive and throw the ball downfield and learn from his mistakes while learning the speed of the NFL. Now if the O-Line looks really bad then put AJM in there, no reason for the QB to get beat up. If the O-Line is playing solid and Allen beats out AJM in the preseason he should start. There is no proven way to do it. There are just as many examples of great quarterbacks thrown into the fire early as sit him and let him watch. It's impossible for me to believe that after three years of starting, Aaron Rodgers, entering his fourth season wouldn't be as good as Aaron Rodgers as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 hours ago, ddaryl said: LMAO.. I'll take a wait and see approach. Nobody knows where this will end up, but I seriously doubt he starts the year ....nor should he...let AJ and Peterman play....teach Allen the speed and intricacies of the NFL game. Don't rush him out there or you will have wasted 2 second round picks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: That doesn't show me anything other than he was ready to play QB day 1. No such thing as playing a QB too early, simple as that. It didn't ruin Payten as you obviously showed. This really seems like a simplistic way of looking at a topic that is quite complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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