Allen Over Rosen Reminds Me of

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, TPS said:

The front office then had a GED, vs these guys with a Ph.d.

 

This is "these guys" first draft as a collective staff so it's premature to say what level they are at. 

[Manther]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I hope like hell I'm wrong too, but what I've seen from the kid generates a healthy dose of skepticism. 

Agreed.  Cautiously optimistic.

[ToGoGo]

16 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Same results!  

 

Except for the whole playoffs thing

[BillsVet]

4 minutes ago, musichunch said:

Different front office. Different owner. Same fans. 

 

It's psychological at this point.  The "trauma" of having a first round pick not work out has made people have some sort of syndrome over trusting anything until it works out again.  That's especially the case when some fans look around and see other teams find their QB or experience real success.

 

The idea it's an apt comparison of 2002, 2006, or 2013 draft is laughable.  No one has to love it now, but expecting Allen not to pan out is a purely defensive thought process. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This is "these guys" first draft as a collective staff so it's premature to say what level they are at. 

 

So hate on them from the start? Cmon man, you're better than this thread.

[ToGoGo]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's psychological at this point.  The "trauma" of having a first round pick not work out has made people have some sort of syndrome over trusting anything until it works out again.  That's especially the case when some fans look around and see other teams find their QB or experience real success.

 

The idea it's an apt comparison of 2002, 2006, or 2013 draft is laughable.  No one has to love it now, but expecting Allen not to pan out is a purely defensive thought process. 

 

Right on. It's as if we're on year 19 of the drought. 

 

I'm also convinced 90%+ of fans did not watch more than 60 seconds of Allen film. They just never heard of him, heard he's completely raw, look at his completion %, don't know anything about Wyoming, and want to draft the guys they heard of, like Mayfield. 

 

I felt the same way UNTIL I watched the film. I saw what the NFL scouts saw. When I watched a few interviews with him I was sold. I've been rooting to trade up for him for weeks. 

[NewEraBills]

Honestly, as I revisit my thoughts and post from a week and a half ago, I don't know why I'm so surprised that Allen is the pick.  I guess I just didn't/don't want to believe myself.  I said a week and a half ago that the Bills would not take Mayfield if available, I also said the same regarding Rosen.  I said I didn't think they would take Rosen or Mayfield because they might have to clean up after them publically and that they did not seem like guys that represent the culture they have built and are building.  I then went on to say they had three guys and gave the order.  

 

Darnold

Allen 

Rudolph

 

That was my order.  I even said they'd probably take Rudolph over Rosen or Mayfield, not at a draft selection point but they'd just wait.  I honestly believe it now.  If they had lost on Allen, they would have taken Edmunds at 12 and then Rudolph later in rd 1.  I'm just mad that this was actually the case.  The disappointment and anger will wear off but right now ughhh.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So hate on them from the start? Cmon man, you're better than this thread.

 

Don't give me that hate or you're better than this lecture. That's just to try to delegitimize someone's rightful feelings of the fact that this front office needs to prove it that over the long term.   I can't buy what you're selling. 

[TPS]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This is "these guys" first draft as a collective staff so it's premature to say what level they are at. 

There's enough evidence on Beane to support my comment. That said, he is now tied to the Allen pick, so we'll see if the rabble is right again...

[Fan in Chicago]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah.........there has been a ton of smoke on this.........and I kinda' hope not because the league is more fun when there are good QB's.

 

 

 

  

 

Was thinking about this a couple of weeks back - for all the pissing and moaning a few years back about the lack of good QBs , a fair amount of talent has entered the league over the past few years. Wentz, Goff, Cousins, Prescott. Watson (Maybe Trubisky, Mahomes) and now this class. If 3-4 of the big 5 from this year turn out to be good, we can look forward to a decade of some pretty entertaining football. But I can readily sacrifice that competition as long as Allen is the one who does great

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, TPS said:

There's enough evidence on Beane to support my comment. That said, he is now tied to the Allen pick, so we'll see if the rabble is right again...

 

That's too easy and too soon for me.  The long term success or failure of the franchise under him as the GM will be the tell.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

It reminds me of Jim Kelly over Tony Eason.

 

Yeah... Eason fluked them into an early Bowl... But he got hurt and kept getting hurt.

 

I still have my doubts, but big and strong win out in BFLo.

[JackKemp]

The Bills went after their man and went for it as many of us have been demanding. Just because he wasn't what each individual wanted doesn't mean too much. What I saw was a pretty divided base on who to pick. The Bills went with who they think in this draft was the best fit. Let's see if they are right. As many have said keep trying until you find the man. Who knows maybe McCarron is the man and the Bills trade someone for draft capital in the future. I don't drink the koolaid, but I certainly want to see how this pans out before I complain about it.

[Gordio]

6 minutes ago, musichunch said:

 

Right on. It's as if we're on year 19 of the drought. 

 

I'm also convinced 90%+ of fans did not watch more than 60 seconds of Allen film. They just never heard of him, heard he's completely raw, look at his completion %, don't know anything about Wyoming, and want to draft the guys they heard of, like Mayfield. 

 

I felt the same way UNTIL I watched the film. I saw what the NFL scouts saw. When I watched a few interviews with him I was sold. I've been rooting to trade up for him for weeks. 

 

 

I don't know man.  I have watched him quite a bit & there are a few things that concern me.  His accuracy & his ability to process information.  Even at the senior bowl where he struggled the first half but played better in the second half he said something to the effect of "I started figuring things out on what defense was doing in the second half."   Are you fuggin kidding me.  These defenses in the senior bowl play a vanilla defense with no blitzing.  If it takes him a half to figure that defense out, how is he possibly supposed to process a complex NFL defense with 250 pnd blitzing linebackers breathing down your ass.  I got my doubts, I hope the kid proves me wrong.

[zow2]

I would've gone with Rosen but Beane and McD have gone all in on Allen and have risked their entire careers and reputations on this pick.  They must have seen stuff they love, not just a big arm.  Josh Allen's college coach went on record last night as saying he will be an awesome pro QB and the Bills got the best QB in the draft, end of story.  Now he will be biased of course...but at this point I'm just gonna trust Beane and McD on this pick.  I have no other choice.    

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[dave mcbride]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah.........there has been a ton of smoke on this.........and I kinda' hope not because the league is more fun when there are good QB's.

 

The one we have to hope flops is Darnold.........who we both felt was the #1 prospect. 

 

I've said all along I really liked all 5 of the top prospects......................I don't think they just got a bum in Allen.........on the surface it feels like maybe we got Roethlisberger potential instead of Aaron Rodgers potential.    

 

ARodgers is arguably the best passer of the ball ever..........but Ben has won more SB's.     Just like Marino was a much better passer than Kelly but Kelly had more playoff success.

 

It could work out.    I'd be happier if they got Darnold or Rosen but man Allen is a very intriguing prospect and I LOVE the deep passing game so I feel upbeat about it.

 

  

Good points. What's especially interesting to me about watching Allen going forward is the huge split over him. On one side are the scouts, gms, pro personnel guys, and media guys in that orbit (Mayock, Gil Brandt, even Kiper)  who deal with the human beings in college football (coaches, players, etc.) as part of their jobs on a near-daily basis, and on the other are the sabremetric types who run the numbers but don't really deal with the human element. 

 

The "football guys" love Allen almost to a person, yet the number crunchers -- again, almost to a person -- think he's a bust waiting to happen based on the metrics they use and the past success of such metrics. 

Who will be right? Who knows. But I do think it's the case that Allen may prove to be a bit of an outlier because he is quite literally the best specimen drafted at the QB position in this century, with only Roethlisberger coming close. The combination of arm strength, athleticism, massive physique, and extremely high wonderlic score (36) are unmatched, no?  That doesn't mean he's going to be good, but I just can't accept running some Kyle Boller numbers and making predictions based off of that. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by dave mcbride

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

when the Bills drafted Whitner over Ngata and Maybin over Orakpo.   The fans made the right call in those cases over the Bills' Front Office.  

 

 

I am not going to lie, that is the first thing I thought of as well.  I will support the good completely, but that thought entered my mind...first.  

[Virgil]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

when the Bills drafted Whitner over Ngata and Maybin over Orakpo.   The fans made the right call in those cases over the Bills' Front Office.  

 

I’m a little bothered by how much we are on the same page right now. But also, without being condescending, am happy to see you actually putting something out there for yourself.  

[ToGoGo]

4 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

I don't know man.  I have watched him quite a bit & there are a few things that concern me.  His accuracy & his ability to process information.  Even at the senior bowl where he struggled the first half but played better in the second half he said something to the effect of "I started figuring things out on what defense was doing in the second half."   Are you fuggin kidding me.  These defenses in the senior bowl play a vanilla defense with no blitzing.  If it takes him a half to figure that defense out, how is he possibly supposed to process a complex NFL defense with 250 pnd blitzing linebackers breathing down your ass.  I got my doubts, I hope the kid proves me wrong.

 

Have faith. He's a smart kid. Played for Wyoming. What he lacks is high-end experience. It's the old "I can" vs "I can't". "Lack of experience" vs "permanent inability". 

 

If you were a smart student who blossomed late and went to UB and did well, and then I threw you into a Harvard exam room, and you only started to figure things out during the 2nd exam, would you be mad if I said I had my doubts about you? Or would you rather I said "good, he's already figuring things out in his 2nd exam in the toughest conditions"?

 

He did better than any QB at the Senior Bowl, and he only started to figure things out in the 2nd half. That sounds like great potential to me. Highest Wonderlic score too. Rosen is a schlub if Allen reaches his full potential.