Anyone else besides me NOW wish we had given up a lot to get to 3?

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Nice list of players. What color are their eyes?

 

 

 

 

IF you are going to be that dense, you can do the work then. Find me the superbowls that don't have top flight QBs in them. I'll even provide the link.

http://www.profootballhof.com/news/super-bowl-starting-qbs/

 

I'll save you some time, It is literally the only position that matters in the NFL. 

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by CountDorkula

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Bleedingreennc said:

What if Allen is still there at 5 and Denver decides not to trade with you? Elway likes those big armed qb's

He has already said that he is open for business. Then he can have Allen I guess. You are dealing in a lot of “what if’s” while I am saying what will happen. If Elway gets 12, 22 and a 2nd he’s taking it. I’m not sure that I would like that for Allen but it is what it is. I’d wager any amount of money that the Bills walked out of this draft with a “top 4” QB.

 

Obviously, you aren’t as close to it from the Bills side as us but they have been committed to getting a guy for over a year. They loaded up on assets to ensure that it happens (and it will). I guarantee it. That doesn’t mean that it will be a smart or good decision. It is just what will happen. It is entirely possible that they pay a big price for Josh Allen. That doesn’t seem wise to me but that is the way that this regime is approaching this draft. They will get a QB.

[Bleedingreennc]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He has already said that he is open for business. Then he can have Allen I guess. You are dealing in a lot of “what if’s” while I am saying what will happen. If Elway gets 12, 22 and a 2nd he’s taking it. I’m not sure that I would like that for Allen but it is what it is. I’d wager any amount of money that the Bills walked out of this draft with a “top 4” QB.

 

Obviously, you aren’t as close to it from the Bills side as us but they have been committed to getting a guy for over a year. They loaded up on assets to ensure that it happens (and it will). I guarantee it. That doesn’t mean that it will be a smart or good decision. It is just what will happen. It is entirely possible that they pay a big price for Josh Allen. That doesn’t seem wise to me but that is the way that this regime is approaching this draft. They will get a QB.

So you are saying that you can believe anything that GM's say right now? Every pick is for sale, it's a matter if the GM's decide to do it. You guarantee it? I'm assuming you will be in the war room when the pick is made? Or have insider information? Once again, you have to have a trade partner, didn't the Giants just shoot down an offer from you guys?

[Domdab99]

5 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Maybe I am just fatigued with this painstaking lead up to the draft.  Maybe I am just annoyed that the jets WILL get one of the top 2 or 3 qbs in the draft.

 

However, I have gone from being fine with not over paying to get to 3 to...well...i'd feel better if we got to three, even knowing we may have to, or could have, rolled with the Giants for 2.

 

We'll soon see.  I have enjoyed aspects of this year's draft, but I need the first round to be over and Thursday can't come soon enough.

 

Go Bills.

 

if regrets over not getting to 3 already well covered, Mods please feel free to lock.

 

I strongly agree with the bolded.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

IF you are going to be that dense, you can do the work then. Find me the superbowls that don't have top flight QBs in them. I'll even provide the link.

http://www.profootballhof.com/news/super-bowl-starting-qbs/

 

I'll save you some time, It is literally the only position that matters in the NFL. 

 

Now that's not just dense it's just plain dumb.

 

If give you it's the most important..but far from the only position that matters. Instead of looking at a cherry picked and outdated metric look at the sum of the parts.

 

There is a reason that QBs like Rivers and Luck haven't won a Super Bowl. There's a reason why Brees and Rodgers have each won 1 despite being like all-time greats. You have to build a roster. 

 

I said earlier...I do agree we need that top guy. And the sooner the better. But to think that a QB is all that matters is just plain wrong. And if all you have is that QB and he goes down (and he eventually will if you don't have blocking for him...but I guess Oline doesn't matter) what do you have then? The Colts and Pack were good examples of that this year.

[Ol Dirty B]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The Jets blinked, the Bills didn't.  Only way the Jets trade makes sense is if they like 3 guys, and were OK with any of them.  Which could be true, since all these guys have positives and negatives.

 

Or the fact they can't get to 2 because the giants won't trade with the jets, and they can't get to 1 because they told them they won't give it up. In that case, they moved up as far as they possibly could.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Guys,

 

Respect wise this Board has been so good for awhile now.  Please try and be respectful of the differing opinion of your Bills colleagues.

 

Thank you.

[Ol Dirty B]

20 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

And? QB rating is one of the most USELESS stats out there. That's like saying 47 of the 52 Super Bowls have had a QB with brown eyes.

 

But they didn't. Sure QBR isn't the most reliable statistic and inflates the performance of poor QBs. But that doesn't change the fact good QBs put up a good QBR. And that those who benefit from the bad metric have only won it 5 times.

 

The brown eyes point is crazy. You shouldn't call anything stupid after that. 

[CountDorkula]

9 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Now that's not just dense it's just plain dumb.

 

If give you it's the most important..but far from the only position that matters. Instead of looking at a cherry picked and outdated metric look at the sum of the parts.

 

There is a reason that QBs like Rivers and Luck haven't won a Super Bowl. There's a reason why Brees and Rodgers have each won 1 despite being like all-time greats. You have to build a roster. 

 

I said earlier...I do agree we need that top guy. And the sooner the better. But to think that a QB is all that matters is just plain wrong. And if all you have is that QB and he goes down (and he eventually will if you don't have blocking for him...but I guess Oline doesn't matter) what do you have then? The Colts and Pack were good examples of that this year.

You are literally proving my point. The only thing that changed between GB and Indy was that they didn't have their Starting QB. The entire roster stayed the same.

The pats entire roster stayed the same, but was Bradyless. The Bills won 16-0.

All that other interchangeable mess matters when you have a QB that is crap.

 

Why have the Bills been bad for so long, is it because they didn't have a complete team, or didn't have a QB?

What happens to NE when Brady Retires.

What happens to PITT when Big Ben retires.

Denver had a great defense, it lasted 3 years, now they cant pay everyone and are picking top 5 because they don't have a QB.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

But they didn't. Sure QBR isn't the most reliable statistic and inflates the performance of poor QBs. But that doesn't change the fact good QBs put up a good QBR. And that those who benefit from the bad metric have only won it 5 times.

 

The brown eyes point is crazy. You shouldn't call anything stupid after that. 

Yup, good QBs put up good QBR. And that's wonderful. But again, to cherry pick a stat that is outdated is just not a good argument. 

 

If you want to line it up with guys that had the top QBR that season also winning a Super Bowl...great. Valid. To talk about career QBR? Flimsy at best. Here's a list of the top 20 all time. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

 

Notice that 11 of the 20 on this list never won a Super Bowl.

 

Also if you talk QBR understand that it get convoluted after time. Ryan Tannehill has a higher QBR than Dan Marino. So he would be the best Dolphin QB of all time? 

 

Also notice that what that what was posted on here was altered by count. Montana is 13th in QBR but somehow ends up 10th on his list. 

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, Bleedingreennc said:

So you are saying that you can believe anything that GM's say right now? Every pick is for sale, it's a matter if the GM's decide to do it. You guarantee it? I'm assuming you will be in the war room when the pick is made? Or have insider information? Once again, you have to have a trade partner, didn't the Giants just shoot down an offer from you guys?

I’m saying that I have a pretty good pulse on that organization. FWIW, I have been in that war room when a pick was made before (it was John McCargo).

 

I’m not even saying that it will be a good decision. I am just guaranteeing that it happens. It is a foregone conclusion. My only hope is that the price isn’t absurd. Rosen between 5 & 7 is the dream scenario for the Bills because they preserve assets. Allen at 2 is a nightmare scenario IMO.

 

The best thing for the Bills (from their perspective) will be if the Giants pass on a QB or if the Browns take Allen at 1. The Bills want Darnold. They will pay a massive price for him if they can get him at 2. They have supposedly offered 3 1sts to the Giants. I don’t buy that though because there is no guarantee that Darnold is there. He is their target. 

[Boatdrinks]

I wish that the Jets weren't interested and the Colts took the Bills offer. I DONT wish the Bills had given up a lot for the 3rd overall selection. 

[BigBuff423]

No, No, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....(Steve Carell)

 

Edit: The QB class is wide / deep, not elite at 1 and 2; therefore, based on QB depth, Bills needs, and what positions the Draft IS deep at, ala RB / LB / DT and interior OL, the Bills need all those Draft picks.

Edited April 23, 2018 by BigBuff423

[T-Bomb]

1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said:

It would be the same value either way.

 

Bills didn't have the 6th overall.

 

Lot of dense ppl around here...

[reddogblitz]

Whatever.   They're gonna do what they do with ZERO input from me. I plan to make some pop corn and watch the first night's picks.  Then make some more pop corn and come on here.  Should be epic.

[Keukasmallie]

3 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

so you would realize that drafting "a stud" at any other position will have little impact on the overall success of this team. 

and if the Jets get a franchise QB and the Bills dont, the Jets will be better than the Bills for a long time. 

 

but Yay for all those pickz!!!1!1!!!

 

You see 'em your way, I see 'em mine.  Shady appears to have an impact disproportionate to one of eleven, etc.

[CountDorkula]

22 minutes ago, Keukasmallie said:

 

You see 'em your way, I see 'em mine.  Shady appears to have an impact disproportionate to one of eleven, etc.

You chose RB, the position that is slowly being devalued by the league, a place where you can find Street free agents and plug and play.

 

You can take the best RB in the NFL, Ill take the best QB 1000 times out of 1000 

[The Red King]

This "QB is the only thing that matters" though is really vexing me.

 

Hey guys, remember the early '90s?  You know, when the Bills went to four straight Super Bowls?  When Jim Kelly single-handedly won the conference year after year with his talent alone, and the other 21 starters were all no-name nobodies that contributed nothing to the team?  I mean you just have to look at the Hall of Fame to see the truth.  I mean, the only person that mattered, the only person from that team to make it to Canton was Kelly.  Because QB is the only position that matters.

 

...wait...

 

...um...oh...right.  That's not how it happened at all! 

 

I swear, the draft cannot get here soon enough.

[Lfod]

Not now but soon. I will feel that way soon possibly. I'm still holding hope we can jump the Jets until the Jets pick. I'm still in denial. Let me be. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Lfod

[Keukasmallie]

1 hour ago, CountDorkula said:

You chose RB, the position that is slowly being devalued by the league, a place where you can find Street free agents and plug and play.

 

You can take the best RB in the NFL, Ill take the best QB 1000 times out of 1000 

 

 

All the best with that....

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

No. Jets moving up that early was a panic plain and simple. Where they were sitting they likely would still have had one of the Big 4 drop in their lap or on draft Day could have had a good shot of sliding to 4 to get their guy ahead of Denver if that's what they feared. And for way less.

 

Being at 12 with the picks we have we have a shot to move up and get the QB we want or improve our roster greatly.

 

 

 

 

....IF necessary.....who knows where and when and who McBeane is targeting at QB?.....substance?...style?......scheme?.....significant input from McD and McDaboll?........just a wild hunch this guy values his draft capital and plays it close to the vest depending on their (The Trio) targets.....TBD post draft "damned if they did...damned if they didn't" threads including mass firings WILL be MORE entertaining than the actual draft...stay tuned...........

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....IF necessary.....who knows where and when and who McBeane is targeting at QB?.....substance?...style?......scheme?.....significant input from McD and McDaboll?........just a wild hunch this guy values his draft capital and plays it close to the vest depending on their (The Trio) targets.....TBD post draft "damned if they did...damned if they didn't" threads including mass firings WILL be MORE entertaining than the actual draft...stay tuned...........

I can see the threads now. They are GLORIOUS!!!

 

Has the term "Restock for Lock" been taken yet? I may want to copyright that one...

[Putin]

10 hours ago, BillsCuse said:

I'm worried it's going to come back to haunt us.  My biggest fear is Giants go QB at 2, Cleveland won't trade out at 4 and Denver goes QB at 5.  The Jets getting a QB and not us would be miserable

Dude put your IPad down go have a drink get out of the house , smoke a doobie quit worrying so much !! 

Its gonna be ok ? !!

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Ive asked this question a couple times already -

 

Can anyone name a team that has traded up to #3 that far in advance before the draft? (6 weeks). I can't name one. 

 

Theres a reason it's almost unheard of... 

 

I still think it was a somewhat reckless trade by the Jets. They have no clue what will happen at 1 and 2. They may have given up all that just to get QB 3 on their board. 

Are they really in love with 3 separate QBs in this draft? What are the chance 3 QBs in this class are worth that haul of picks? 

 

Seems like a desperate move by a desperate GM IMO. I'd much rather have my GM identify their guy, not take a random shot at any one of 3 QBs. 

 

 

The Jets are from NYC...the top media city in the country.   They are scrutinized like 1000 times more than the Bills...They had to make that call.  If they get their Franchise QB that will last for a decade who cares what they gave up.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

10 hours ago, mead107 said:

Nope. 

 

Don’t mortgage the farm. 

The farm has no value without a QB. 

[The Red King]

9 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

The farm has no value without a QB. 

 

Yes, because we all know The Eagles' season ended the minute Foles had to step in.  

 

Let's count Super Bowl wins...Rivers and The Chargers...zero.  Dilfer and The Ravens...one.  Foles and The Eagles...one.  Ergo, according to your assertation above, Foles and Dilfer are obviously better QBs then Rivers, right?

[Bob in STL]

42 minutes ago, BillsCuse said:

I'm worried it's going to come back to haunt us.  My biggest fear is Giants go QB at 2, Cleveland won't trade out at 4 and Denver goes QB at 5.  The Jets getting a QB and not us would be miserable

 

This could happen, and we could getting a qb at 12, or 22.  We could still get a better qb than a few of the top 4 prospects.  As a group these guys are still unknown NFL players.  

 

With no trade we could get 6 very good players in 3 rounds.  We could get the best QB next year.  I think Beane will try to move up but you need a trade partner and you can’t desperately give up the farm to accomplish a goal that may turn out too risky.  Sometimes you just play out the hand you have, if that is the case then find a great MLB, WR, and shore up the Trenches.  

[DriveFor1Outta5]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

Yes, because we all know The Eagles' season ended the minute Foles had to step in.  

 

Let's count Super Bowl wins...Rivers and The Chargers...zero.  Dilfer and The Ravens...one.  Foles and The Eagles...one.  Ergo, according to your assertation above, Foles and Dilfer are obviously better QBs then Rivers, right?

The Chargers have demonstrated utter incompetence since drafting Rivers (who is great, but can be a melodramatic inconsistent turnover machine himself). Let’s get our QB in place before worrying about failing to secure other positions. We can use those outlier examples all you want, but they are the exception rather than the rule. There is no way you can build a team around a guy like Dilfer. The 2000 Ravens required an all time great defense to win that championship.

 

A GM can not build a team with the goal of putting together an all time great defense. Doing so requires far too many lucky breaks. It’s not something that can planned. Discovering a franchise QB is a bit of a lotto ticket as well. However, there is one key difference, I’d rather attempt to find one winning lotto ticket as opposed to eleven. Building an all time great defense requires eleven lotto tickets. As far as Foles is concerned, he got hot at the right time imo. Start him next season and he’s back to looking like the average guy he is. It’s strange how many people use this argument, and act like Carson Wentz doesn’t exist. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

The Chargers have demonstrated utter incompetence since drafting Rivers (who is great, but can be a melodramatic inconsistent turnover machine himself). Let’s get our QB in place before worrying about failing to secure other positions. We can use those outlier examples all you want, but they are the exception rather than the rule. There is no way you can build a team around a guy like Dilfer. The 2000 Ravens required an all time great defense to win that championship.

 

A GM can not build a team with the goal of putting together an all time great defense. Doing so requires far too many lucky breaks. It’s not something that can planned. Discovering a franchise QB is a bit of a lotto ticket as well. However, there is one key difference, I’d rather attempt to find one winning lotto ticket as opposed to eleven. Building an all time great defense requires eleven lotto tickets. As far as Foles is concerned, he got hot at the right time imo. Start him next season and he’s back to looking like the average guy he is. 

 

I'm curious.  How much would be too much to pay to move up in your eyes?  Or should the Bills give/have given a team ahead of them whatever they demanded without question?

 

You were the one who said the farm had no value without a QB.  Careful when dealing in absolutes and abstracts.  McBeane can't afford to just say...

 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

6 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

I'm curious.  How much would be too much to pay to move up in your eyes?  Or should the Bills give/have given a team ahead of them whatever they demanded without question?

 

You were the one who said the farm had no value without a QB.  Careful when dealing in absolutes and abstracts.  McBeane can't afford to just say...

 

I would give up a lot, and without concrete examples I cannot give you specifics. Everything the current regime has done would lead one to believe they were all in on a QB in 2018. Personally, I really like the 2018 draft class, and that plays a big role in my perception of this process. I’m not worried about what I might lose before attempting to gain a franchise changing player. Who knows how this draft will play out? It’s possible that they might not need to trade up to get a guy they like. If not, I’d be willing to give up quite a bit. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5

[The Red King]

6 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

I would give up a lot, and without concrete examples I cannot give you specifics. Everything the current regime has done would lead one to believe they were all in on a QB in 2018. Personally, I really like the 2018 draft class, and that plays a big role in my perception of this process. I’m not worried about what I might lose before attempting to gain a franchise changing player. 

 

And yet, without knowing exactly what the Bills would have paid to move up, you're already saying Beane blew it.  And if we don't move up when the draft finally arrives, again with no idea what the cost will be, you're ready to label him a failure.  Beane has a threshold.  He will not overpay to move up.  You're already calling that threshold unreasonable without even knowing what it actually is...and yet your above reply suggests that even you would have an acceptable threshold.  You have absolutely no idea how much Beane is willing to spend, and no idea what he was asked to spend.  All we know is the asking price, whatever it was, exceeded the threshold, whatever that was.

Edited April 23, 2018 by The Red King

[DriveFor1Outta5]

30 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

And yet, without knowing exactly what the Bills would have paid to move up, you're already saying Beane blew it.  And if we don't move up when the draft finally arrives, again with no idea what the cost will be, you're ready to label him a failure.  Beane has a threshold.  He will not overpay to move up.  You're already calling that threshold unreasonable without even knowing what it actually is...and yet your above reply suggests that even you would have an acceptable threshold.  You have absolutely no idea how much Beane is willing to spend, and no idea what he was asked to spend.  All we know is the asking price, whatever it was, exceeded the threshold, whatever that was.

I never said any of the things that you say I said. I said that I’d be willing to give up a lot to choose a QB from this class. Failing to secure one of the top guys would be a failure imo. However, I never said that I’m ready to label Beane failure. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5

[mead107]

2 hours ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

The farm has no value without a QB. 

Riley Ferguson will be the man 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

NO. But I wish the Bills had traded with Houston and Cleveland traded with Kansas City last year.

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

I never said any of the things that you say I said. I said that I’d be willing to give up a lot to choose a QB from this class. Failing to secure one of the top guys would be a failure imo. However, I never said that I’m ready to label Beane failure. 

 

Many here already are (for example the thread "Beane Cost us the 3rd overall pick.").  I must have mistook some other responses on this thread as yours and apologize for that.