H2o Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 For weeks we have been watching the moves. Tyrod to Cleveland for #65. Glenn to Cincy getting us to #12 from #21. We signed Davis, we signed Ivory, we signed Star, we signed Murphy, and we signed McCarron. The stars seemed to be aligning and everyone was talking about how teams KNEW the Bills were coming for a top QB. There were rumors about the Bills being in talks with Indy to get to #3 or the Giants to #2, though I felt the Giants weren't a realistic option. That almost assured us of getting our guy though. Everyone would have been below us after Cleveland. In steps the NY Jets paying a king's ransom to move up 3 spots. They changed the whole landscape of the draft, for us anyway. I'm not seeing us getting up high enough to our grab our guy. It will likely be a fallback option and I fear that fallback is Jackson. This is how I see things playing out. 1. Cleveland Browns - Sam Darnold 2. NY Giants - Saquon Barkley 3. NY Jets - Josh Rosen 4. Cleveland Browns - Bradley Chubb 5. Denver Broncos - Baker Mayfield Were we ever going to ransom the farm to get into the top 5? I don't know. It seemed like we were in a good place to make that move. The Giants could make it even worse by passing on Barkley and taking a QB. If that happens then boom, done. That would mean 4 QB's in the first 5 picks. Could Cleveland still end up trading us #4? Maybe, but I think they are staying put. This leaves Allen and Jackson on the board if the Giants choose to build around Eli, which I think they will do. At this point I don't think we move anymore. I am almost certain now that Beane\McDermott will let the draft come to them. We will still end adding some serious talent with the picks we have, but my hopes of Mayfield or Rosen are all but shot. F*ck you NY Jets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Said it in another thread. This is the Colts’ payback for the Hughes trade years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, bobobonators said: Said it in another thread. This is the Colts’ payback for the Hughes trade years ago. Yes, f*ck Irsay's pill poppin a** too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bobobonators said: Said it in another thread. This is the Colts’ payback for the Hughes trade years ago. We traded a player for a player 5 years ago and they are mad at the bills because Sheppard didn't pan out for them? Edited March 17, 2018 by The Wiz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It's not pay back, the Jets just threw down decided to make their strongest play and gave up a bevy of picks. Of course Indy took that deal. We weren't willing to do that apparently or just maybe, Beane has a deal with the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The tinfoil hats have officially come out. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The Jets didn't pay a kings ransom. They gave up 3 2nd round picks. It's minuscule if their QB actually hits and it's certainly better than the alternative of watching us trade up above them and freeze out the QB position. We're screwed. I think the Giants are set on QB, likely Rosen. No running back is worth the picks that would likely be given on a move. QBs go top 3, potentially even 4, that's why the Jets moved up, they knew if they watched us trade up and get a franchise QB they'd be crucified, not to mention have to play against him twice a year. Our best play now is just keep our picks, if not potentially move down for future picks, build the best "TEAM" possible, hope that McCarron or a later QB can be better than Bortles/Tyrod level and continue to exists in purgatory. The pipe dream of a move up to get one of these guys was likely always just a pipe dream. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: It's not pay back, the Jets just threw down decided to make their strongest play and gave up a bevy of picks. Of course Indy took that deal. We weren't willing to do that apparently or just maybe, Beane has a deal with the Giants. I wasn't saying yes to it being any kind of payback, I was saying yes because I forgot to say f*ck Irsay for making the trade. Edited March 17, 2018 by H2o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: It's not pay back, the Jets just threw down decided to make their strongest play and gave up a bevy of picks. Of course Indy took that deal. We weren't willing to do that apparently or just maybe, Beane has a deal with the Giants. Or the Colts just didn't want to drop all the way down to #12. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 seems like the cl0ts didnt want to leave the top 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Thank God we didn't do it for a question mark. Build a great team with our draft capital, please don't throw it away on a QB that is a straight up question mark, as far as how their game will translate to the NFL.. People are acting like these QB are going to come in and really havoc on the league. More than likely they are fringe starters in 3 years, worth a mid Rd pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, H2o said: I wasn't saying yes to it being any kind of payback, I was saying yes because I forgot to say f*ck Irsay for making the trade. Well then we agree! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 That's your take ...what if; Cleveland takes Darnold NYG because they have Eli takes Barkley Jets feel Bridgewater is their guy and takes Rosen, or Mayfield, or even Chubb Cleveland takes Fitzpatrick or Vea (or trades down) Denver takes Roquan Smith or Ridley (or trades down) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: It's not pay back, the Jets just threw down decided to make their strongest play and gave up a bevy of picks. Of course Indy took that deal. We weren't willing to do that apparently or just maybe, Beane has a deal with the Giants. Or maybe they did try to get to #3 and the Colts took the Jets offer instead. Ballard said they were in discussions with other QB needy teams and they decided to take this deal because they felt they'd still get a blue chip prospect at #6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 You can't blame the Colts for this one. Getting three 2nds from a bad team to drop only a few slots and very likely still get the top player on their board is a great move. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: It's not pay back, the Jets just threw down decided to make their strongest play and gave up a bevy of picks. Of course Indy took that deal. We weren't willing to do that apparently or just maybe, Beane has a deal with the Giants. Beane isn't throwing away all these picks for a AB. I'm telling you guys. Listen to the man speak. It's not happening. He values those picks to much, rightfully so The QB got paid the most was a 4th rder. Keenum undrafted. I think Foles is more realistic than these rookie QB that are just beyond overhyped on here! Same ppl that would have traded the farm for Ponder, Gabbert,Locker , Clausen etc are saying this Edited March 17, 2018 by JerseyBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Or maybe they did try to get to #3 and the Colts took the Jets offer instead. Ballard said they were in discussions with other QB needy teams and they decided to take this deal because they felt they'd still get a blue chip prospect at #6. Exactly. They looked at what we had to offer and what the Jets had to offer, realized they are basically getting the same player at 6 as they would at 3 and took the second round picks. I can't say I blame them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Or maybe they did try to get to #3 and the Colts took the Jets offer instead. Ballard said they were in discussions with other QB needy teams and they decided to take this deal because they felt they'd still get a blue chip prospect at #6. Could very well be BF4. 2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Beane isn't throwing away all these picks for a AB. I'm telling you guys. Listen to the man speak. It's not happening. He values those picks to much, rightfully so I don't think he values them enough that he would put us in a worse quarterback position than we were in last year. Because that's where we are now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Beane isn't throwing away all these picks for a AB. I'm telling you guys. Listen to the man speak. It's not happening. He values those picks to much, rightfully so The QB got paid the most was a 4th rder. Keenum undrafted. I think Foles is more realistic than these rookie QB that are just beyond overhyped on here! Same ppl that would have traded the farm for Ponder, Gabbert,Locker , Clausen etc are saying this Think every QB is garbage or that Darnold or Rosen compare even remotely to the guys you mention, sure, that's one way to cope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Exactly. They looked at what we had to offer and what the Jets had to offer, realized they are basically getting the same player at 6 as they would at 3 and took the second round picks. I can't say I blame them. 3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: Could very well be BF4. Plus, when you look at the draft value chart and what the Jets gave up in points to get from #6 to #3, and what we would have had to trade to beat that... You're probably looking at giving up all 6 of our top picks, or all 5 of our top 65 picks + a 2nd or even 1st next year, only to be guaranteed the 3rd best QB in this draft. And it seems that the Colts obviously valued one of the blue chip prospects in this draft pretty highly... so who knows what it would have taken. Will the 3rd best QB in this draft be guaranteed to be THAT much better than say the 4th or 5th QB off the board that you surround with 5 more top 90 picks? And have an actual good overall team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Murica Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The Jets decided they would just go for it. Who the hell knows when the next opportunity will come to draft a franchise QB with more than one option available to do so. Gotta give them credit took some balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) Or the Colts got a second rounder for every spot they moved up. It’s an excellent trade and they’ll probably still end up with one of the players they were targeting anyhow. Wouldnt have happened if they traded to 12. Edited March 17, 2018 by Bobby Hooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Think every QB is garbage or that Darnold or Rosen compare even remotely to the guys you mention, sure, that's one way to cope. I think it's a crap shoot. No QB is labeled as a clear cut franchise guy this year. No Luck, Wentz , Cam , etc.. We have just as much chance at staying at 12 and getting a better qb or hitting on a mid rounder. Look at Wilson,Dak,Carr for example.. less and less QB are producing that are highly drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Or the Colts just didn't want to drop all the way down to #12. 24 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: seems like the cl0ts didnt want to leave the top 10 Not exactly true... “We feel really good about our options at six at this time,” Ballard said. “We’re still open, you know, we’ll still be open if the right opportunity presents itself at six to move down. But right now, we feel pretty good. It would have to be a pretty attractive offer for us to move away from six because of the player we think we’re gonna get.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 39 minutes ago, The Wiz said: We traded a player for a player 5 years ago and they are mad at the bills because Sheppard didn't pan out for them? Its a joke. Guess it wasnt funny ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 39 minutes ago, bobobonators said: Its a joke. Guess it wasnt funny ? Gotcha. Might have made more sense(been funnier) in the other thread that you posted it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I didn't think the Jets trade effected us until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, JerseyBills said: I think it's a crap shoot. No QB is labeled as a clear cut franchise guy this year. No Luck, Wentz , Cam , etc.. We have just as much chance at staying at 12 and getting a better qb or hitting on a mid rounder. Look at Wilson,Dak,Carr for example.. less and less QB are producing that are highly drafted. Wishful thinking. Don't forget Wentz wasn't a clear number one ir sure thing, neither was Goff. Those two teams took a big chance trading up to get them and it paid off. Sometimes you just have to do it. We have never been willing to pay the cost for a quality quarterback. And that's why we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: Wishful thinking. Don't forget Wentz wasn't a clear number one ir sure thing, neither was Goff. Those two teams took a big chance trading up to get them and it paid off. Sometimes you just have to do it. We have never been willing to pay the cost for a quality quarterback. And that's why we are where we are. Everybody and their mother knew Wentz n Goff were going 1 and 2. They were highly regarded as potential franchise qbs and those two were on a level and every other QB was below. There's 4 QB that you can make an argument for one being better than the other, there isn't a clear cut guy. Why waste so much precious draft capital on one?? I could see if McD has been here for years and they had a roster full of their guys, but it's year 2 and still laying the foundation, those picks are extremely valuable to a 2nd year GM and HC, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, JerseyBills said: Thank God we didn't do it for a question mark. Build a great team with our draft capital, please don't throw it away on a QB that is a straight up question mark, as far as how their game will translate to the NFL.. People are acting like these QB are going to come in and really havoc on the league. More than likely they are fringe starters in 3 years, worth a mid Rd pick! Every draft pick is a question mark. The QB position is just heavily scrutinized to the point that it makes us see more failures. An average QB is viewed more as a bust than an average linebacker. 6 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Everybody and their mother knew Wentz n Goff were going 1 and 2. They were highly regarded as potential franchise qbs and those two were on a level and every other QB was below. There's 4 QB that you can make an argument for one being better than the other, there isn't a clear cut guy. Why waste so much precious draft capital on one?? I could see if McD has been here for years and they had a roster full of their guys, but it's year 2 and still laying the foundation, those picks are extremely valuable to a 2nd year GM and HC, Maybe, but why trade Glenn? If you’re building a roster, why create a hole? Everything that we’ve done has indicated that we are collecting assets to acquire a QB. Otherwise, trading a large number of players isn’t the first step to creating a roster with good depth. Trading guys away creates holes that need to be filled. Only drafting a franchise QB allows those decisions to make sense imo. I know that Glenn had injury issues, but talented tackles don’t grow on trees. So, did we just trade Glenn only to replace him in the draft? That would true old school OBD management right there. Edited March 17, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Every draft pick is a question mark. The QB position is just heavily scrutinized to the point that it makes us see more failures. An average QB is viewed more as a bust than an average linebacker. Absolutely. So why, in year 2, while still building the team with their vision, take such a risk on one of these particular qbs is mind boggling. We'd be giving up all 5 top 65 picks, only way I'd do that is if there was a special QB out there. A can't miss prospect,ala Luck, Cam ... This isn't Madden folks. Throwing away high draft picks on a question mark doesn't equate to sustainable winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Here's an interesting take: https://sports.yahoo.com/jets-want-no-3-154834557.html If the Jests aren't actually looking at a QB, are they trying to force the Bills to panic and give up a crapton of picks to jump ahead of them? 3 second round picks aren't a high price to pay if 1.) You guarantee you get the guy you want; and 2.) You force a division rival to panic and give up at least multiple first and second round picks to jump ahead of you to get a guy you didn't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Every draft pick is a question mark. The QB position is just heavily scrutinized to the point that it makes us see more failures. An average QB is viewed more as a bust than an average linebacker. Maybe, but why trade Glenn? If you’re building a roster, why create a hole? Trading guys away creates holes that need to be filled. Only drafting a franchise QB allows those decisions to make sense imo. I know that Glenn had injury issues, but talented tackles don’t grow on trees. So, did we just trade Glenn only to replace him in the draft? That would true old school OBD management right there. They already have Glenn's replacement in Dawkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Absolutely. So why, in year 2, while still building the team with their vision, take such a risk on one of these particular qbs is mind boggling. We'd be giving up all 5 top 65 picks, only way I'd do that is if there was a special QB out there. A can't miss prospect,ala Luck, Cam ... This isn't Madden folks. Throwing away high draft picks on a question mark doesn't equate to sustainable winning. Because if you hit on a QB you’ve solved many of your problems. Shying away from going all in on the position has resulted in years of post-Kelly futility. A nice roster with a backup level talent such as McCarron is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Every draft pick is a question mark. The QB position is just heavily scrutinized to the point that it makes us see more failures. An average QB is viewed more as a bust than an average linebacker. Maybe, but why trade Glenn? If you’re building a roster, why create a hole? Trading guys away creates holes that need to be filled. Only drafting a franchise QB allows those decisions to make sense imo. I know that Glenn had injury issues, but talented tackles don’t grow on trees. So, did we just trade Glenn only to replace him in the draft? That would true old school OBD management right there. Glenn was traded to save $$ because Dawkins stepped in as a rookie and played very well at LT. There is no hole created, the hole was plugged when Buffalo traded up to get Dawkins. Now we're paying our starting LT a rookie contract for the next 3 years.. He would have likely been cut anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They already have Glenn's replacement in Dawkins. He was good, but offensive linemen can be shuffled. Nothing wrong with having a great line with depth. If they didn’t resign Glenn it’d be a different story, but I’d have let him play out his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Jets didn't pay a kings ransom. They gave up 3 2nd round picks. It's minuscule if their QB actually hits and it's certainly better than the alternative of watching us trade up above them and freeze out the QB position. We're screwed. I think the Giants are set on QB, likely Rosen. No running back is worth the picks that would likely be given on a move. QBs go top 3, potentially even 4, that's why the Jets moved up, they knew if they watched us trade up and get a franchise QB they'd be crucified, not to mention have to play against him twice a year. Our best play now is just keep our picks, if not potentially move down for future picks, build the best "TEAM" possible, hope that McCarron or a later QB can be better than Bortles/Tyrod level and continue to exists in purgatory. The pipe dream of a move up to get one of these guys was likely always just a pipe dream. but there is nothing that convinces me that outside of maybe rosen, that a qb later like rudolph white, faulk could end up being better than darnold, allen or jackson. i would hope we can land mayfield because i think he's the best, but, i'm confident in a.j, nate and whoever they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, DriveFor1Outta5 said: He was good, but offensive linemen can be shuffled. Nothing wrong with having a great line with depth. If they didn’t resign Glenn it’d be a different story, but I’d have let him play out his contract. I think his foot/ankle issues caused concern as well. Beane is doing what a GM should, getting his cap under control, amassing draft picks, and the like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Glenn was traded to save $$ because Dawkins stepped in as a rookie and played very well at LT. There is no hole created, the hole was plugged when Buffalo traded up to get Dawkins. Now we're paying our starting LT a rookie contract for the next 3 years.. He would have likely been cut anyway! Fair enough, but at this point I’m not sure what the team plans on doing with all the spare $$. Just now, oldmanfan said: I think his foot/ankle issues caused concern as well. Beane is doing what a GM should, getting his cap under control, amassing draft picks, and the like I’ll agree with all of that, if the amassing of draft picks result in a top QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Because if you hit on a QB you’ve solved many of your problems. Shying away from going all in on the position has resulted in years of post-Kelly futility. A nice roster with a backup level talent such as McCarron is going nowhere. Nick Foles says Hi. Blake Bortles says Hi. Case Keenum says Hi. All had their teams a win away from the SB. Foles won it. All were viewed as below average-average at best last year. They had great teams though , so they didn't need to play great. How has that worked for Stafford,Rivers for example. Even if we hit on a QB , you still need a great team behind him. We have a chance to build a great team with 5 picks in first 65 selections. If we take a QB at 12 or 22, that's fine with me. Just cannot see Beane mortgaging the future for the available qbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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