billsredneck1 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Green Lightning said: worse quarterback position than we were in last year. Because that's where we are now. worse???? our passing game is going to at least double in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Green Lightning said: It's not pay back, the Jets just threw down decided to make their strongest play and gave up a bevy of picks. Of course Indy took that deal. We weren't willing to do that apparently or just maybe, Beane has a deal with the Giants. Or the Bills didn't have a high pick to offer , but the Jets did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Fair enough, but at this point I’m not sure what the team plans on doing with all the spare $$. I’ll agree with all of that, if the amassing of draft picks result in a top QB. We aquired some nice pieces in FA, and moved up 9 spots for a LT that we didn't need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Nick Foles says Hi. Blake Bortles says Hi. Case Keenum says Hi. All had their teams a win away from the SB. Foles won it. All were viewed as below average-average at best last year. They had great teams though , so they didn't need to play great. How has that worked for Stafford,Rivers for example. Even if we hit on a QB , you still need a great team behind him. We have a chance to build a great team with 5 picks in first 65 selections. If we take a QB at 12 or 22, that's fine with me. Just cannot see Beane mortgaging the future for the available qbs Bortles held his team back, and Keenum did have a great season (yet the Vikings parted with him). Foles (won’t be starter next season) made the playoffs based off the work of Wentz. He happened to get hot at the right time. Foles already had an incredible season with Chip Kelly. He has shown to be a streaky player who can light it up at times. Foles is a talented QB who can look elite, or just plain awful. McCarron doesn’t have the skill set of Foles. McCarron projects as a game managing backup QB. I don’t discount the point that you made. I just don’t think that the NFL has changed to the point where you can use these examples as the template to success. You still need a real QB. Edited March 17, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Maybe, just maybe the FO is planning to stay at #12. What the hell do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 34 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Glenn was traded to save $$ because Dawkins stepped in as a rookie and played very well at LT. There is no hole created, the hole was plugged when Buffalo traded up to get Dawkins. Now we're paying our starting LT a rookie contract for the next 3 years.. He would have likely been cut anyway! Poppycock. Glenn wouldn’t have been cut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 46 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Everybody and their mother knew Wentz n Goff were going 1 and 2. They were highly regarded as potential franchise qbs and those two were on a level and every other QB was below. There's 4 QB that you can make an argument for one being better than the other, there isn't a clear cut guy. Why waste so much precious draft capital on one?? I could see if McD has been here for years and they had a roster full of their guys, but it's year 2 and still laying the foundation, those picks are extremely valuable to a 2nd year GM and HC, If we miss yet again on a quarterback in this draft were in worse shape than we were last year with the quarterbacks that we now have. Its more years of mediocrity. Just get a GD quarterback. 30 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: worse???? our passing game is going to at least double in production. Based on what? A career backup who started four games several years ago? Come on. 31 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Or the Bills didn't have a high pick to offer , but the Jets did. That could well be. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: If we miss yet again on a quarterback in this draft were in worse shape than we were last year with the quarterbacks that we now have. Its more years of mediocrity. Just get a GD quarterback. The Bills tried to trade into the Colts spot at 3. The Colts took an offer from a team with a higher draft position and moved down only 3 spots. I'm curious how you would suggest they go about drafting this QB if no team is willing to move down out of the top ten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: If we miss yet again on a quarterback in this draft were in worse shape than we were last year with the quarterbacks that we now have. Its more years of mediocrity. Just get a GD quarterback. Based on what? A career backup who started four games several years ago? Come on. based on our starting qb didn't make one ounce of improvement in 3yrs and we had one of the lamest passing attacks in the league. we could bring fitz back and he would look like an all pro compared to what we are used to seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 42 minutes ago, Koko78 said: If the Jests aren't actually looking at a QB, are they trying to force the Bills to panic and give up a crapton of picks to jump ahead of them? If this is the case, the Jets are really dim. Does Bean strike anyone here as the personality type to "panic"? And panic over what? The Jets decision making? Please, the Jets have made some really goofy decisions over the years, and all of the sudden now they are shrewd? And can anticipate Bean's temperment? That is comical. I cannot imagine a scenario where Beane accumulates draft picks to casually forfeit them to draft a notoriously suspect QB; and by that I mean any 5 of the "hot" prospects. The Bills have too many holes are positions with no depth. Why risk that for one player....and an iffy one at that? This stated, the Jets panicked and over paid. No question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: If we miss yet again on a quarterback in this draft were in worse shape than we were last year with the quarterbacks that we now have. Its more years of mediocrity. Just get a GD quarterback. Really working for Stafford, Rivers, Carr , Winston, Mariota . I can keep going. How many playoff wins between those franchise QB????? How many appearances???? I thought the objective was to WIN, not be able to throw for 4000 yards and Lose. The game is changing. QB play is declining. Average QB can win a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: If we miss yet again on a quarterback in this draft were in worse shape than we were last year with the quarterbacks that we now have. Its more years of mediocrity. Just get a GD quarterback. Based on what? A career backup who started four games several years ago? Come on. That could well be. Absolutely. Getting a QB just to get a QB smacks of EJ desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1. Cleveland - Darnold QB 2. NY Giants - Barkley RB 3. NY Jets - Rosen QB 4. (TRADE) Bills - Allen QB NEVER WANTED ROSEN NOT A MCBEAN PLAYER. I am fine with this and Allen in my opinion will be the next Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, IndyMark said: If this is the case, the Jets are really dim. Does Bean strike anyone here as the personality type to "panic"? And panic over what? The Jets decision making? Please, the Jets have made some really goofy decisions over the years, and all of the sudden now they are shrewd? And can anticipate Bean's temperment? That is comical. I cannot imagine a scenario where Beane accumulates draft picks to casually forfeit them to draft a notoriously suspect QB; and by that I mean any 5 of the "hot" prospects. The Bills have too many holes are positions with no depth. Why risk that for one player....and an iffy one at that? This stated, the Jets panicked and over paid. No question. It's been done before. That said, I agree that they are miscalculating if their sole purpose was to force the Bills to use up their draft picks to move up to 2. However, if they are not looking for a QB, I'm sure there is someone else they are targeting that they did not believe would last to 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said: The Bills tried to trade into the Colts spot at 3. The Colts took an offer from a team with a higher draft position and moved down only 3 spots. I'm curious how you would suggest they go about drafting this QB if no team is willing to move down out of the top ten? Well the short story is we don't know anything really. We don't know what was offered if anything. All we can do is wait this out. Hindsight is 20-20 but right now we don't know if they even had a serious negotiation. Factors most of us on this board saw the goings-on, trading are starting quarterback, all the Machinations to move up and saw it as a chance to get a franchise quarterback. Right now all that is in question and it could be frustrating if we end up with the quarterbacks we now have on opening day. 7 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: based on our starting qb didn't make one ounce of improvement in 3yrs and we had one of the lamest passing attacks in the league. we could bring fitz back and he would look like an all pro compared to what we are used to seeing. Pnward to mediocrity again. Let's hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: Well the short story is we don't know anything really. We don't know what was offered if anything. All we can do is wait this out. Hindsight is 20-20 but right now we don't know if they even had a serious negotiation. Factors most of us on this board saw the goings-on, trading are starting quarterback, all the Machinations to move up and saw it as a chance to get a franchise quarterback. Right now all that is in question and it could be frustrating if we end up with the quarterbacks we now have on opening day. McShay said he was told the Bills were involved. The picks and the moves made to acquire them point to this, and it's not surprising. If no team in the top of the draft is willing to move to 12, how do you suggest that the Bills " just get a GD QB". Which QB would you take ? At what spot? Or would you try to acquire a QB some other way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Getting a QB just to get a QB smacks of EJ desperation. I agree, that's why I wanted one of the top three rated quarterbacks in his quarterback rich draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: 1. Cleveland - Darnold QB 2. NY Giants - Barkley RB 3. NY Jets - Rosen QB 4. (TRADE) Bills - Allen QB NEVER WANTED ROSEN NOT A MCBEAN PLAYER. I am fine with this and Allen in my opinion will be the next Elway. Have 4 QBs ever been taken at spots 1-4 in the NFL draft? I can't see this happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, Green Lightning said: I agree, that's why I wanted one of the top three rated quarterbacks in his quarterback rich draft. Just now, Green Lightning said: I agree, that's why I wanted one of the top three rated quarterbacks in his quarterback rich draft. And he can get one if he trade up. An an entire day of posts and it still comes down to how Beane feels about these guys. If he feels one is as good as you seem to think, he can move up. If not, he won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said: McShay said he was told the Bills were involved. The picks and the moves made to acquire them point to this, and it's not surprising. If no team in the top of the draft is willing to move to 12, how do you suggest that the Bills " just get a GD QB". Which QB would you take ? At what spot? Or would you try to acquire a QB some other way? Wow, the Bills were involved. Nobody has any idea what that means it what was offered. Until we do, it's moot. Maybe there's nothing we could have done, we don't know. But pardon me for not being excited for a year of AJ McCarron and Nathan Peterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Getting a QB just to get a QB smacks of EJ desperation. They do have a need at the position. No proven starting caliber QB on the roster. So drafting one that might be makes a lot of sense. The quality of that prospect will dictate the draft currency expended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: And he can get one if he trade up. An an entire day of posts and it still comes down to how Beane feels about these guys. If he feels one is as good as you seem to think, he can move up. If not, he won't I get it, but it's not just Beane's call anymore. If the Jints see this as a once in a decade chance to get a franchise QB, then nothing's going to move them. So it's gonna take two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: Wow, the Bills were involved. Nobody has any idea what that means it what was offered. Until we do, it's moot. Maybe there's nothing we could have done, we don't know. But pardon me for not being excited for a year of AJ McCarron and Nathan Peterson. I'm not asking if you're excited or not. It's a legitimate question. The Bills need an upgrade at QB. They are in a draft slot that won't get them one of the top 4 prospects, most likely. There may not be a team that currently is willing to move down into their slot at 12. You acknowledged the need at the position. What do you think Beane/ McDermott should do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: I get it, but it's not just Beane's call anymore. If the Jints see this as a once in a decade chance to get a franchise QB, then nothing's going to move them. So it's gonna take two. It was never just Beane's call. Today did not change that one iota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Jets didn't pay a kings ransom. They gave up 3 2nd round picks. It's minuscule if their QB actually hits and it's certainly better than the alternative of watching us trade up above them and freeze out the QB position. We're screwed. I think the Giants are set on QB, likely Rosen. No running back is worth the picks that would likely be given on a move. QBs go top 3, potentially even 4, that's why the Jets moved up, they knew if they watched us trade up and get a franchise QB they'd be crucified, not to mention have to play against him twice a year. Our best play now is just keep our picks, if not potentially move down for future picks, build the best "TEAM" possible, hope that McCarron or a later QB can be better than Bortles/Tyrod level and continue to exists in purgatory. The pipe dream of a move up to get one of these guys was likely always just a pipe dream. The difference is that the Jets’ 6th overall pick was wort much more than pick 12 AND both Jets’ 2nds were higher than the Bills’ 2 2nds. No treally that surprising except to those who thought that the Bills’ draft capital was far superior to all other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, H2o said: For weeks we have been watching the moves. Tyrod to Cleveland for #65. Glenn to Cincy getting us to #12 from #21. We signed Davis, we signed Ivory, we signed Star, we signed Murphy, and we signed McCarron. The stars seemed to be aligning and everyone was talking about how teams KNEW the Bills were coming for a top QB. There were rumors about the Bills being in talks with Indy to get to #3 or the Giants to #2, though I felt the Giants weren't a realistic option. That almost assured us of getting our guy though. Everyone would have been below us after Cleveland. In steps the NY Jets paying a king's ransom to move up 3 spots. They changed the whole landscape of the draft, for us anyway. I'm not seeing us getting up high enough to our grab our guy. It will likely be a fallback option and I fear that fallback is Jackson. This is how I see things playing out. 1. Cleveland Browns - Sam Darnold 2. NY Giants - Saquon Barkley 3. NY Jets - Josh Rosen 4. Cleveland Browns - Bradley Chubb 5. Denver Broncos - Baker Mayfield Were we ever going to ransom the farm to get into the top 5? I don't know. It seemed like we were in a good place to make that move. The Giants could make it even worse by passing on Barkley and taking a QB. If that happens then boom, done. That would mean 4 QB's in the first 5 picks. Could Cleveland still end up trading us #4? Maybe, but I think they are staying put. This leaves Allen and Jackson on the board if the Giants choose to build around Eli, which I think they will do. At this point I don't think we move anymore. I am almost certain now that Beane\McDermott will let the draft come to them. We will still end adding some serious talent with the picks we have, but my hopes of Mayfield or Rosen are all but shot. F*ck you NY Jets. There will only be 2 QBs taken in the top 10...bank on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Or maybe they did try to get to #3 and the Colts took the Jets offer instead. Ballard said they were in discussions with other QB needy teams and they decided to take this deal because they felt they'd still get a blue chip prospect at #6. Yep - Jets’ picks were worth more than the Bills’ picks, no matter what some believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, matter2003 said: There will only be 2 QBs taken in the top 10...bank on it. There will be at least 3 taken in the top 5....bank on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: I'm not asking if you're excited or not. It's a legitimate question. The Bills need an upgrade at QB. They are in a draft slot that won't get them one of the top 4 prospects, most likely. There may not be a team that currently is willing to move down into their slot at 12. You acknowledged the need at the position. What do you think Beane/ McDermott should do? Obviously trade up. And neither you nor I know what they did in that regard. What they we're willing to give up or not. All we know is we got leapfrogged. There's still a shot at #2. How realistic that is now is anyone's guess. If we're boxed out for whatever reason, it's no surprise to anyone that this FO will be judge almost soley on the success of filling that position. Maybe Beane doesn't value this group as much as others do. We have to trust he's got a plan B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Jets changed nothing. If we wanted Rosen, we needed to pick 2nd all along. If we went to 3 or 4, the Jets would have just traded to 2. I actually think it’s dumb the Jets didn’t go to 2. They are allowing us or any other QB needy team to scoop them and now they’ve spent their assets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Virgil said: Jets changed nothing. If we wanted Rosen, we needed to pick 2nd all along. If we went to 3 or 4, the Jets would have just traded to 2. I actually think it’s dumb the Jets didn’t go to 2. They are allowing us or any other QB needy team to scoop them and now they’ve spent their assets There is a belief in some NFL circles that the Giants will not do business with the Jets. I wasn't aware of this , but it has some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Every draft pick is a question mark. The QB position is just heavily scrutinized to the point that it makes us see more failures. An average QB is viewed more as a bust than an average linebacker. Maybe, but why trade Glenn? If you’re building a roster, why create a hole? Everything that we’ve done has indicated that we are collecting assets to acquire a QB. Otherwise, trading a large number of players isn’t the first step to creating a roster with good depth. Trading guys away creates holes that need to be filled. Only drafting a franchise QB allows those decisions to make sense imo. I know that Glenn had injury issues, but talented tackles don’t grow on trees. So, did we just trade Glenn only to replace him in the draft? That would true old school OBD management right there. Glenn was overpaid, oft injured and expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankoElTanko Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 This has everything to do with them essentially losing nothing in terms of the rebuild to move down three spots (#3ovr to #6ovr) and gain (what should be) 3 long term starters through the 2 early seconds this yr and the 1 more next yr. Also it was good business for the Jets who just ensured that they will get a crack at their 1a. or their 1b. regardless of whether we move to #1 or 2ovr or not. Real reason Indy makes this move is not because of the Jets offer v. our offer, it has everything to do with the fact that the Jets were at #6ovr and we are at #12ovr. Or maybe we have a deal for #2 w/NYG? Or maybe I don't know anything and am full of ish, who knows, lol?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Green Lightning said: Wow, the Bills were involved. Nobody has any idea what that means it what was offered. Until we do, it's moot. Maybe there's nothing we could have done, we don't know. But pardon me for not being excited for a year of AJ McCarron and Nathan Peterson. it's obvious that you've done your homework on predicting the capabilities of our current qbs..... and btw ..it's peterman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 52 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: it's obvious that you've done your homework on predicting the capabilities of our current qbs..... and btw ..it's peterman Voice to text. So you're sold on our present QBs? Going to take us to the next level? AJ couldn't unseat a mid tier starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 hours ago, bobobonators said: Said it in another thread. This is the Colts’ payback for the Hughes trade years ago. ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Virgil said:Jets changed nothing. If we wanted Rosen, we needed to pick 2nd all along. If we went to 3 or 4, the Jets would have just traded to 2. I actually think it’s dumb the Jets didn’t go to 2. They are allowing us or any other QB needy team to scoop them and now they’ve spent their assets Exactly right. They showed their hand and guaranteed themselves nothing more than the third best QB in the draft. They may may also have raised the price of the second pick of the draft. Maybe it costs us 12 + 22 + a two and a three this year + a 1 next year to get to 2. So be it if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, H2o said: There will be at least 3 taken in the top 5....bank on it According to most people on this board their will be 8 taken in the top 10. Ill bet money 3 in the top 5 wont happen. Didnt even happen when there was Eli, Rivers and Roethlesberger there in 2004 and those 3 are likely far far better than the crop of QBs this year Edited March 18, 2018 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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