Bills Have a Standing Offer for LB Preston Brown

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I don't want him back at any price. If he returns, he will continue to hold this defense back. Manti T'eo, essentially the same player, signed a 2 year 5 million dollar contract. He is a part time player that only plays in base 4-3 sets. I'd be comfortable with that number, but I'd prefer he not come back.  

 

Also, Avery Williamson is a playmaker. He has something like 12 career sacks. The dude is a difference maker. 

He obviously provides value if we have a standing offer out to him.  Which means if he accepts it, he's out starting MLB.  McDermott wouldn't have him as our starting MLB if he wasn't a fit at all.  Especially since McDermott has already shown he will get rid of a player if they aren't a fit.

[P51]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They still need to add an athletic LB in the draft (Darius Leonard is my pick).

 

Leonard would be a great addition to the LB core, especially with any pick left over after they trade up for a QB of their choosing. 

 

Rosen/Mayfield at QB behind McBama for a yearish....

 

Brown (4/5M$ a year on a short term contract) at ILB on 1st and 2nd down (run downs) and off the field in sub-packages, with Leanard and Milano on the field all 3 downs would be good LB group. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by P51
Add in Brown

[Fan in Chicago]

12 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

Hopefully the offer gets taken off the table. The guy is part of the problem with the run D. He rarely makes a tackle for a loss. Yes he made alot of tackles but those were downfield since he can't shed blocks. I really hope Brown isn't resigned.

The front 4 were not good last year and with Star and Murphy we are already better. I bet we draft Kyle William's replacement in the draft. With that. IMHO, you will see a lot better performance by Brown. He checks off all the right boxes for McD - available, quietly goes about his business, doesnt take too many penalties and is pretty solid. Kuechly he is not , but you arent going to find Kuechlys at every position. Sign him for 4 years and check one off the needs list. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The front 4 were not good last year and with Star and Murphy we are already better. I bet we draft Kyle William's replacement in the draft. With that. IMHO, you will see a lot better performance by Brown. He checks off all the right boxes for McD - available, quietly goes about his business, doesnt take too many penalties and is pretty solid. Kuechly he is not , but you arent going to find Kuechlys at every position. Sign him for 4 years and check one off the needs list. 

 

This is the year of the QB.  Next year i think we'll try to add more playmakers on both sides of the ball in both FA and the draft.

You draft your guy, you take your lumps, you evaluate for 2019.  If we make the playoffs or something?  Gravy.  But They can't say they expect it when they're drafting a QB and starting him right away.

Edited March 16, 2018 by dneveu

[Starr Almighty]

6 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The front 4 were not good last year and with Star and Murphy we are already better. I bet we draft Kyle William's replacement in the draft. With that. IMHO, you will see a lot better performance by Brown. He checks off all the right boxes for McD - available, quietly goes about his business, doesnt take too many penalties and is pretty solid. Kuechly he is not , but you arent going to find Kuechlys at every position. Sign him for 4 years and check one off the needs list. 

He had Mario, Dareus, Kyle and Hughes when they lead the league in sacks and the run D was still bad. He may be quiet and available but he's not a good LB. He's average at best.

[MrEpsYtown]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He obviously provides value if we have a standing offer out to him.  Which means if he accepts it, he's out starting MLB.  McDermott wouldn't have him as our starting MLB if he wasn't a fit at all.  Especially since McDermott has already shown he will get rid of a player if they aren't a fit.

 

Hopefully it is a huge lowball offer. I honestly wouldn't mind him moving over to the SAM spot that Lorax occupied, poorly, last year. That would make Preston a two down player and he would spend a lot of his time head up on a tight end in 4-3 under looks. I know I am crapping all over Preston, but he has two things going for him, extremely long arms and a very fast three cone. That tells me he has some short area quickness and long arms should help him jam tight ends and set the edge. 

 

Maybe McDermott is probably offering him a chance to come back at a reduced role out of respect. There is no way they watched him play and thought it was good. 

[Fan in Chicago]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

This is the year of the QB.  Next year i think we'll try to add more playmakers on both sides of the ball in both FA and the draft.

You draft your guy, you take your lumps, you evaluate for 2019.  If we make the playoffs or something?  Gravy.  But They can't say they expect it when they're drafting a QB and starting him right away.

 

The Bills have plenty of draft capital. even with a move to the top 5, we should have a #2 and couple of #3s available to draft OL, LB, DT or WR. 

1 minute ago, Starr Almighty said:

He had Mario, Dareus, Kyle and Hughes when they lead the league in sacks and the run D was still bad. He may be quiet and available but he's not a good LB. He's average at best.

Even if he is average, does that mean we shouldnt re-sign him ?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

The Bills have plenty of draft capital. even with a move to the top 5, we should have a #2 and couple of #3s available to draft OL, LB, DT or WR. 

 

yeah - but those aren't always going to be the keuchleys of the world.  I want a real RT so we can cut mills.  He stinks.  That's as big a hole as MLB where there isn't even a current starter.  I'd like to add some speed at WR and LB.  DT they seem to be rolling with Vet's for now, and maybe add a late round flyer for rotational depth.  

[Lurker]

43 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You aren’t ever going to have stars at every position in the salary cap era. Too often, Bills fans take the approach of “just get someone else and it will be better.” With the market where it is, and the draft resources that will be used to go up, you are more likely to downgrade from Brown than upgrade. Milano, Brown and a rookie is not a bad group.

 

Totally agree.    It's impossible to have a roster of all-stars in the salary cap/free agent era.   

 

Every team has mid-tier players like Brown.    He's smart, dependable and provides good leadership.    If he gets beat out by a high draft pick, someone like Roquan Smith, he can slide into another role and provide high quality depth.   If there's no addition via the draft or FA, he can start for another year, benefit from an improved DL and likely have another 100-plus tackle season...

[Starr Almighty]

4 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

The Bills have plenty of draft capital. even with a move to the top 5, we should have a #2 and couple of #3s available to draft OL, LB, DT or WR. 

Even if he is average, does that mean we shouldnt re-sign him ?

I can't answer that question fairly because I really dislike his play on the field and I have wanted him out of here for years.

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

Totally agree.    It's impossible to have a roster of all-stars in the salary cap/free agent era.   

 

Every team has mid-tier players like Brown.    He's smart, dependable and provides good leadership.    If he gets beat out by a high draft pick, someone like Roquan Smith, he can slide into another role and provide high quality depth.   If there's no addition via the draft or FA, he can start for another year, benefit from an improved DL and likely have another 100-plus tackle season...

 

Fine but you don't play high quality depth six million. It's lunacy. It's Chris Kelsay guys. It's a commitment to mediocrity. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Hopefully it is a huge lowball offer. I honestly wouldn't mind him moving over to the SAM spot that Lorax occupied, poorly, last year. That would make Preston a two down player and he would spend a lot of his time head up on a tight end in 4-3 under looks. I know I am crapping all over Preston, but he has two things going for him, extremely long arms and a very fast three cone. That tells me he has some short area quickness and long arms should help him jam tight ends and set the edge. 

 

Maybe McDermott is probably offering him a chance to come back at a reduced role out of respect. There is no way they watched him play and thought it was good. 

 

He isn't ideal but you can't have ideal personnel at every position.  AJ McCarron isn't ideal but he fits now....just like Ducasse/Miller, Cedric Thorton, Shaq Lawson etc...

 

I think it is low because Preston is still probably looking for something better because he hasn't accepted.  He's probably in a somewhat a little shock of his value.  He was the NFL's leading tackler and probably thought he would get somewhere near upper echelon for MLB.   Well hasn't gotten that which is why he's still on the market.  He's probably getting slightly above average salary for a MLB which is probably where he needs to be.  Zach Brown went through this last year.  I lost count how many teams he visited.

 

[Fan in Chicago]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

yeah - but those aren't always going to be the keuchleys of the world.  I want a real RT so we can cut mills.  He stinks.  That's as big a hole as MLB where there isn't even a current starter.  I'd like to add some speed at WR and LB.  DT they seem to be rolling with Vet's for now, and maybe add a late round flyer for rotational depth.  

But you said this is the year of the QB. I agree. With that said, you shouldnt get rid of an above average performer cos you want a Kuechly. That may be for next year. Cover your bases with your own FAs

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He isn't ideal but you can't have ideal personnel at every position.  AJ McCarron isn't ideal but he fits now....just like Ducasse/Miller, Cedric Thorton, Shaq Lawson etc...

 

I think it is low because Preston is still probably looking for something better because he hasn't accepted.  He's probably in a somewhat a little shock of his value.  He was the NFL's leading tackler and probably thought he would get somewhere near upper echelon for MLB.   Well hasn't gotten that which is why he's still on the market.  He's probably getting slightly above average salary for a MLB which is probably where he needs to be.  Zach Brown went through this last year.  I lost count how many teams he visited.

 

 

Shaq is on a rookie contract and Thornton, Ducasse are 1 million per year guys. People want to give Preston 16 million guaranteed. That's the difference and that's what I am arguing against. I'll have him back for 1.5 million for 1 year sure. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But you said this is the year of the QB. I agree. With that said, you shouldnt get rid of an above average performer cos you want a Kuechly. That may be for next year. Cover your bases with your own FAs

 

Bringing back KW, having poyer/hyde, bringing in a guy like Murphy.. You're adding defensive leaders.  

 

Who's leading the O?

[dpberr]

I understand why he'd look around but the Bills are the best fit for him IMO.  With another year in the McDermott defense, better team trainers (perhaps!) and some better defensive line play his stats can only go up.

 

He's not the fastest linebacker in the age of the pass but I appreciate that he's one of the NFL's smartest, durable backers.  

[Lurker]

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Fine but you don't play high quality depth six million. It's lunacy. It's Chris Kelsay guys. It's a commitment to mediocrity. 

 

You just paid journeyman Julian Stanford $3 million for two years ($1.2 million + 1.25 million salaries).     Second-contract starters in the NFL probably average $3-$4 million.    If the Bills' offer is in the $4 million range, that's just the cost of doing business.     

 

You don't fix every position in any given year...

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Shaq is on a rookie contract and Thornton, Ducasse are 1 million per year guys. People want to give Preston 16 million guaranteed. That's the difference and that's what I am arguing against. I'll have him back for 1.5 million for 1 year sure. 

 

Thorton and Ducasse are also depth guys.  Ducasse became a starter because we had nothing else.  That's why they are making 1 million.

Brown is an every down starter.  He played more than anyone on our defense at 99.1% of the snaps.  He will make much more than $1.5 million.

I think something around $5-$6 million per year is fair.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Thorton and Ducasse are also depth guys.  Ducasse became a starter because we had nothing else.  That's why they are making 1 million.

Brown is an every down starter.  He played more than anyone on our defense at 99.1% of the snaps.  He will make much more than $1.5 million.

I think something around $5-$6 million per year is fair.

 

But people are saying give him 6-7 million, then some people are saying he's good depth so he should get 4 million. Then some people are saying that it is important to have depth pieces like Thornton/Ducasse on the team so we should keep him. But depth players like Ducasse/Thornton don't make 4 million.

 

Its all very confusing. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

But people are saying give him 6-7 million, then some people are saying he's good depth so he should get 4 million. Then some people are saying that it is important to have depth pieces like Thornton/Ducasse on the team so we should keep him. But depth players like Ducasse/Thornton don't make 4 million.

 

Its all very confusing. 

 

 

 

I'm very confused by this post.

 

Brown isn't a depth player.  He's a quality starter and will make starter money.

 

Ducasse/Thorton are depth players and they make depth player salaries.

[MrEpsYtown]

From all accounts he is a good guy who is valued in the locker room. Fine. If you guys are okay with being mediocre, give him a 3 year 22 million $ contract with 16 million guaranteed. 

 

Then don't complain when our defense is getting lacerated and we can't beat the Patriots.

 

Don't be committed to mediocrity. Preston will be the new Chris Kelsay that we complain about and joke about how he brings his lunch pail. Lunchpail ain't winning the Super Bowl guys. You need talent. 

[DrDawkinstein]

16 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Fine but you don't play high quality depth six million. It's lunacy. It's Chris Kelsay guys. It's a commitment to mediocrity. 

 

$5-7M isnt that much in today's NFL. It is what your "high-quality depth" guys make. The starters are more in the $10M+ range, and to that, Brown is a starter.

 

It's just a matter of relativity. Seems like a lot of money for a backup, but there is a lot of money in the NFL.

 

All that said, I'd rather not pay Preston Brown anything. He's dead to me.

Edited March 16, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm very confused by this post.

 

Brown isn't a depth player.  He's a quality starter and will make starter money.

 

Ducasse/Thorton are depth players and they make depth player salaries.

 

He is not a quality starter. He is a mediocre 2 down linebacker. People are arguing we should bring him back and if continues to suck he could become depth. 

 

Go back and read this entire thread. People are all over the place on his value and it doesn't make any sense. 

 

I'm getting all hot and bothered lol

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

$5-7M isnt that much in today's NFL. It is what your "high-quality depth" guys make. The starters are more in the $10M+ range, and to that, Brown is a starter.

 

It's just a matter of relativity. Seems like a lot of money for a backup, but there is a lot of money in the NFL.

 

All that said, I'd rather not pay Preston Brown anything. He's dead to me.

 

That is overvaluing high quality depth. Look at the salaries for inside linebackers and you will see. 

 

He is dead to me as well. The Pats don't want him because they know he can't cover. They'd rather he come back to us so they can take advantage of his speed. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by MrEpsYtown

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

That is overvaluing high quality depth. Look at the salaries for inside linebackers and you will see. 

 

He is dead to me as well. The Pats don't want him because they know he can't cover. They'd rather he come back to us so they can take advantage of his speed. 

 

Good point, here's a list of ILB salaries: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/inside-linebacker/

 

Brown is certainly no Danny Trevathan, he's not even a Zach Brown. I hope our offer to him is no more than 2yrs/$8M, with incentives that could take it up to $10-12M.

 

I also hope he doesnt take it and goes somewhere else.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

He is not a quality starter. He is a mediocre 2 down linebacker. People are arguing we should bring him back and if continues to suck he could become depth. 

 

Go back and read this entire thread. People are all over the place on his value and it doesn't make any sense. 

 

I'm getting all hot and bothered lol

 

 

 

If he isn't a quality starter and "continues to suck" then McDermott has already made a mistake to offer him anything.  If he accepts our deal, he becomes our starting MLB and McDermott has hurt our defense.

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If he isn't a quality starter and "continues to suck" then McDermott has already made a mistake to offer him anything.  If he accepts our deal, he becomes our starting MLB and McDermott has hurt our defense.

 

Agreed. That's why I'm guessing it is a lowball offer to come back as a part time player out of respect. 

[NewEraBills]

I look at Preston analogously to TT.  You know that TT is only going to take you so far and give you so much and that you can only do so much with him offensively so you as a coach get limited.  To me, it's the same with Brown but on the other side of the football.  The limitations are just too much.  He's a two-down player.  This is undeniable yet because we didn't have the depth he had to play and McD did everything he could to keep him out of coverage.  Ramon Humber was the same way.  When we were in Nickel subpackages the Patriots destroyed us by going empty and forcing both Brown and Humber to cover and even when they had zone assignments they still gave up plays in their area because they don't have the twitchiness to make a tackle once a guy gets going.  I honestly do not want Preston or Humber back.  If we do not have the capital to draft other guys and are forced to bring them back then I guess but I won't be happy about it.

 

I'll just say it this way.  McD ran his defense with less than ideal players in the front 7 and the secondary did a great job.  The run defense and the pass rush were bad.  Imagine what he could do with a good linebacker group.  The DL is stacked at the end position, we just need one more DT.  If we could get an athletic linebacker in round 2 like South Carolina State's Darius Leonard I'd be thrilled.  I think Vander Esch might climb and find himself in rd 1 but if not he'd also be a great fit.  Finally, Oren Burks would be a good player to grab in rd 3.  I just really want to move on from PB.  No one is asking for perfection.  We just want upgrades so that McD can do a little bit more defensively.

[BillsFanForever19]

Gross.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Preston Brown... is that the player who likes the Patriots*?

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Agreed. That's why I'm guessing it is a lowball offer to come back as a part time player out of respect. 

 

We don't agree, I was being sarcastic.  Brown doesn't suck.  He has been a starter for us with 3 different defensive coordinators.  McDermott watched film on him before he took over the team and didn't upgrade the position.  He has shown he doesn't have a problem getting rid of players.

 

He's not a high end starter or ideal MLB but he's quality enough.  I would like an upgrade but if that's not in the cards for a few years, he can fill in adequately.

 

He was on the field 99.1% of the snaps last year.  You don't have someone on the field for 99.1% of the snaps if they "continued to suck".  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Please let this guy go. Just let him be 

[John from Riverside]

What would he look like with a huge space eater in front of him....oh wait........

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Preston Brown... is that the player who likes the Patriots*?

 

Based on his lil kitty reaction when Gronk went at Brown's own teammate as Brown stood right there... yep, that's him.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Based on his lil kitty reaction when Gronk went at Brown's own teammate as Brown stood right there... yep, that's him.

 

Hey, he pointed it out to that ref with fervor!

[Freddie's Dead]

$4M/yr?  Seriously?  Kuechly is getting $7.6M this year, then $10M/yr for the next three after that.  Not saying he's Kuechly, but even Dirty Kiko is making $7+M a year.  The Blaster should be getting $5-6M/yr at least.  Bills clearly sending the message that they're not that interested.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Maybe the offer should sit down. An offer standing for so long must get tired. 

[CNY315]

https://twitter.com/RyanTalbotBills/status/974673040289271809

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, CNY315 said:

https://twitter.com/RyanTalbotBills/status/974673040289271809

 

@RyanTalbotBills: Update: Source says talks with Bills have concluded. “He’s going where he feels wanted and returning home to the #Bengals.” 

 

Woo hoo!

 

Thank you (again) Bengals! Good riddance JAG Brown. Your snippiness through the FA process was unnecessary.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

@RyanTalbotBills: Update: Source says talks with Bills have concluded. “He’s going where he feels wanted and returning home to the #Bengals.” 

 

Woo hoo!

 

Thank you (again) Bengals! Good riddance JAG Brown. Your snippiness through the FA process was unnecessary.

Replacing Kevin Minter, another slow meh linebacker. Curious to see the contract. 

[NewEraBills]

Damn man.  The Bengals have come through for us AGAIN!!