buffaloboyinATL Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I really feel like that’s the Sweet spot for him. I do not think he will go in the top 10 but you could grab him there at 12 before the teens where i think he could potentially fall. I would not take him in the top 5. If Beane has a QB in mind that he loves and has the cojones to wait until number 12 to take him, and it actually works, that would be GM of the year material. We will build a shrine in his honor in Buffalo! Please let that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I agree they all need a QB. But they likely won’t reach for one. I just don’t think he will go that high. Maybe I’m wrong, but he’s not an elite prospect. Yet I see him as a top 20 player in this draft. I would love for him to be the guy the Bills draft. Just think he will be there at 12. Yeah I think they want to throw the rookie in ASAP and get on with it. We will see! I agree with you on Baker sliding. I think A LOT of teams have him as 4th on their board and he's probably a lot closer to Jackson than the guy who is 3rd on a lot of teams boards. Teams like measurables, it potentially cost Brees and Wilson entire rounds on their draft standing. Things have changed a bit since then, but the measurables of the QBs taken a the top of the draft haven't. I think teams, especially with high picks, are going to default to a 6'4" guy if the evaluation is anywhere close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, buffaloboyinATL said: If Beane has a QB in mind that he loves and has the cojones to wait until number 12 to take him, and it actually works, that would be GM of the year material. We will build a shrine in his honor in Buffalo! Please let that happen. LOL, I've thought the same thing. You got "cojones" to bring it up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I agree with you on Baker sliding. I think A LOT of teams have him as 4th on their board and he's probably a lot closer to Jackson than the guy who is 3rd on a lot of teams boards. Teams like measurables, it potentially cost Brees and Wilson entire rounds on their draft standing. Things have changed a bit since then, but the measurables of the QBs taken a the top of the draft haven't. I think teams, especially with high picks, are going to default to a 6'4" guy if the evaluation is anywhere close. Haven't we had enough experience with QB's that have good measureables but suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I agree with you on Baker sliding. I think A LOT of teams have him as 4th on their board and he's probably a lot closer to Jackson than the guy who is 3rd on a lot of teams boards. Teams like measurables, it potentially cost Brees and Wilson entire rounds on their draft standing. Things have changed a bit since then, but the measurables of the QBs taken a the top of the draft haven't. I think teams, especially with high picks, are going to default to a 6'4" guy if the evaluation is anywhere close. He has two things not on his side when it comes to the elite section at the top of the draft: 1. his height dictates he needs a specific type of scheme. This can’t be changed. And not every team is prepared for that scheme. It doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t be the next Drew Brees. It does mean he’s not a universal slam dunk. 2. The red flags on his character are real. They are out there. He is being followed by a PI in Norman, set up by an nfl team. SOP? No. Not for every QB prospect. Could he go top 10? Sure. I just don’t think he will at the end of the day. Edited March 15, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Why do I have a feeling a lot of the posters who like Baker more than Rosen have a shared political affiliation. Oh boy. While I might privately agree with your suggestion, I try to avoid that kind of discourse on a sports discussion forum. Generally leads to less-than-brilliant discussions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Haven't we had enough experience with QB's that have good measureables but suck? Allen is the more justifiable prospect. "I took a chance on the 6'4" guy with a rocket arm" sells a lot better in NFL circles than "I took a chance on the 6'0" guy from the Big 12". 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He has two things not on his side when it comes to the elite section at the top of the draft: 1. his height dictates he needs a specific type of scheme. This can’t be changed. And not every team is prepared for that scheme. It doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t be the next Drew Brees. It does mean he’s not a universal slam dunk. 2. The red flags on his character are real. They are out there. He is being followed by a PI in Norman, set up by an nfl team. SOP? No. Not for every QB prospect. Could he go top 10? Sure. I just don’t think he will at the end of the day. Could not agree more. There's always drama with Baker, which will scare teams away. And I completely agree about putting him in the right scheme. For fans who watched Baker win the Heisman at the center of the college landscape, I get having difficulty putting him above the guy who played in Wyoming and never appeared on TV, but NFL personnel and scouts are drooling over Allen (not to mention Darnold & Rosen) and are terrified of Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Allen is the more justifiable prospect. "I took a chance on the 6'4" guy with a rocket arm" sells a lot better in NFL circles than "I took a chance on the 6'0" guy from the Big 12". And you end up with Rob Johnson, JP Losman, and EJ Manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: Oh boy. While I might privately agree with your suggestion, I try to avoid that kind of discourse on a sports discussion forum. Generally leads to less-than-brilliant discussions... I agree. Not the place. Just seeing some similarities. 13 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: And you end up with Rob Johnson, JP Losman, and EJ Manual. I don't know what to tell you. Smarter football minds than you like Allen more than Baker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I agree. Not the place. Just seeing some similarities. I don't know what to tell you. Smarter football minds than you like Allen more than Baker. Nothing wrong with having measurables provided tha tyou can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeby Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Wait a minute, wait a minute - wait a minute! (Anyone remember the tiny tot of the KW guy? The press box hostesses hated him at then pilot field when I worked the suites one summer). Does this mean that yesterday's nonsense thread about a twitter prediction of huge news (deleted around 4:30 yesterday, perhaps due to me) was actually right?? Edited March 15, 2018 by sleeby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Nothing wrong with having measurables provided tha tyou can play. If Allen played at Oklahoma with their talent and Lincoln Riley I think he is likely the #1 pick in this draft, while Baker at Wyoming with their talent is likely a borderline 1st round pick, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 52 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: If Whaley wasn't needed for draft he c would have been dismissed way before then and Beane would of been brought in . Maybe we would have our QB by now. Since Mcd didn't trust Whaley to take Mahomes . Dude....seriously, it's time to build a bridge and get over it. Why in God's name would a HC, knowing the GM and his staff are out the door, spend a high Draft pick on a QB the next GM didn't pick?? Then we'd spend the next three years figuring out if he was the right pick, who to blame and what needs to be done to fix it...if it didn't work...sound familiar? Like, I don't know, EJ Manuel and Buddy Nix on his way out the door. McD did the right thing in acquiring more Draft capital for what is believed to be one of the best QB Drafts in nearly 14 years....this was the smart move...please stop complaining and move on.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: If Allen played at Oklahoma with their talent and Lincoln Riley I think he is likely the #1 pick in this draft, while Baker at Wyoming with their talent is likely a borderline 1st round pick, if that. I don't have anything against Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: I don't have anything against Allen. You just called him Rob Johnson / JP Losman / EJ Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: You just called him Rob Johnson / JP Losman / EJ Manuel I implied you can't focus exclusively on measurables. Edited March 15, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: If Allen played at Oklahoma with their talent and Lincoln Riley I think he is likely the #1 pick in this draft, while Baker at Wyoming with their talent is likely a borderline 1st round pick, if that. Baker at Wyoming, nobody would even know who he is honestly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Baker at Wyoming, nobody would even know who he is honestly. Right? If Baker was at Wyoming he would be "the guy who kind of plays like Manziel, got arrested and did some other dumb stuff" Day 2-3 pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Chuck Wagon said: Right? If Baker was at Wyoming he would be "the guy who kind of plays like Manziel, got arrested and did some other dumb stuff" Day 2-3 pick. He might be working at Wal Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Williams Available Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 17 hours ago, dgr81 said: My immediate thoughts (in meme form) after seeing the trade then seeing the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 49 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 How did a talent like Allen end up at Wyoming and a dud like Mayfield end up at Oklahoma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollBillsRoll Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: How did a talent like Allen end up at Wyoming and a dud like Mayfield end up at Oklahoma? Not sure, but there are several potential reasons: If the high school coach was not aggressive about contacting college coaches during the recruiting process, putting together highlight films, etc. Allen didn't have the chance to go to a big time summer camp/ 7 on 7 competition to get seen by power 5 coaches... those things can be $$$ His high school tape and/or measurables weren't that great...some kids grow 2-3 inches in college alone Maybe he grew up a wyoming fan and always dreamed of playing there? Maybe he like wide open spaces, mountains, and cold weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RollBillsRoll said: Not sure, but there are several potential reasons: If the high school coach was not aggressive about contacting college coaches during the recruiting process, putting together highlight films, etc. Allen didn't have the chance to go to a big time summer camp/ 7 on 7 competition to get seen by power 5 coaches... those things can be $$$ His high school tape and/or measurables weren't that great...some kids grow 2-3 inches in college alone Maybe he grew up a wyoming fan and always dreamed of playing there? Maybe he like wide open spaces, mountains, and cold weather? Or maybe Mayfield is a more talented player. Edited March 15, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said: My immediate thoughts (in meme form) after seeing the trade then seeing the contract. and if it fails to be a good deal Bills could release McCarron after the 2018 season and take only a $2 million dead-money charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Getting him at 12 would be a good outcome. Who could grab him before that? Broncos seem really high on him. Their staff was running 1 team at the senior bowl and personally requested to work with him. John Elway, Vance Joseph and Gary Kubiak all attended his pro day yesterday with 3-4 more scouts (I believe) There have been a lot of rumors that they really like him. Miami as well. It could just just all be a smoke screen too I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 39 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: If Allen played at Oklahoma with their talent and Lincoln Riley I think he is likely the #1 pick in this draft, while Baker at Wyoming with their talent is likely a borderline 1st round pick, if that. Josh Allen freakin sucks. Watch the tape. The guy couldn’t do it against softies in a terrible conference. When he played somebody that was worth something he folded. Terrible accuracy and despite what people think you CANNOT fix accuracy. Picking him in the first round would be awful and set this team back years. Again, McBeane isn’t that stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, RollBillsRoll said: Not sure, but there are several potential reasons: If the high school coach was not aggressive about contacting college coaches during the recruiting process, putting together highlight films, etc. Allen didn't have the chance to go to a big time summer camp/ 7 on 7 competition to get seen by power 5 coaches... those things can be $$$ His high school tape and/or measurables weren't that great...some kids grow 2-3 inches in college alone Maybe he grew up a wyoming fan and always dreamed of playing there? Maybe he like wide open spaces, mountains, and cold weather? Allen is from a tiny farm town in rural California. He had to go the Juco route because no one scouted him in high school. I give Baker props for walking on and making it, though he quit on Texas Tech when someone threatened his standing. 13 minutes ago, McBean said: Josh Allen freakin sucks. Watch the tape. The guy couldn’t do it against softies in a terrible conference. When he played somebody that was worth something he folded. Terrible accuracy and despite what people think you CANNOT fix accuracy. Picking him in the first round would be awful and set this team back years. Again, McBeane isn’t that stupid. I never said pick Allen. Just saying why a team will. Edited March 15, 2018 by Chuck Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: First off Rivera runs that ship and they usually hire from within like they did with Wilks to keep continuity on D and No! They didn't take a step bk. Matter of fact they took plenty steps up by going from 24th ranked D to top 3 and they made the playoffs going 11-5 . Star on the other hand he was sharing his job stuck in heavy rotation only had 19tackles on season that's pretty average if u ask me. Back to Whaley u say he had nothing to do with the draft that's absolutely insane. It was his scouts his staff and him that put that board together. Whaley might of made mistakes in past drafts i agree with u on that but what GM doesn't ? Whaley put talent on this team he did his job the problem was the coaching he had never shared his vision with him. We all know here that he didn't personally hire or even choose his coach to lead this team. McDermott talked about how he personally scouted Micah Hyde and thought he'd be a great fit for what they did. And Bob Babich is actually the one who recommended Jordan Poyer to the coaching staff. There were a few articles about it. Here's one - http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Familiarity-with-Poyer-landed-Bills-a-free-agent-steal/93caa964-472d-49b0-8f59-76362617c3da As far as the draft - 2017 went completely away from what Whaley normally did in the draft. He almost always had the players he drafted (esp. high) in for pre draft visits. None of the players we drafted this year were in for a visit (except Peterman IIRC). In fact, The Bills have always had their 1st round draft pick in for a visit from the time he first got here - every year from 2010 to 2016. The only year he didn't... 2017. Drafts as assistant GM (pre draft visits)- -CJ Spiller -Marcell Dareus -Stephon Gilmore -Tank Carder -EJ Manuel -Jonathan Meeks (this 2013 draft was probably him running the show but I'll list it under asst. GM because we don't know if he ran the show or not). Drafts as GM (pre draft visits)- -Sammy Watkins -Cyrus Kouandjio -Preston Brown -Ross Cockrell (thats the top 4 picks from the 2014 draft, all brought in for a pre draft visit) -John Miller -Karlos Williams -Cardale Jones -Kolby Listenbee -Shaw Lawson -Reggie Ragland -Adolphus Washington (I'm not sure if this is a complete list. It's just what I found with a quick search) You know who did have many of our draft picks in for a visit? Carolina Panthers. -Tre White -Zay Jones -Dion Dawkins -Tanner Vallejo Also, Whaley never drafted players from small schools (like Zay Jones or even Dawkins (Temple)), especially in the first few rounds. Whaley stuck to certain colleges and especially certain conferences. In his time as GM from 2014 to 2015, 9 of his 13 draft picks came form the ACC. Shaq Lawson (in 2016) made that 10. If you go back to 2013, only 3 of his 28 draft picks came form outside the power 5 conference - Duke Williams (4th), Randell Johnson (7th round), Dezmin Lewis (7th). Never a top 3 round pick from outside the power 5, again, until 2017 (Jones, Dawkins). This was completely dfferent than any draft from the time Whaley was hired by Buffalo. I am sure McDermott used some information from him but when looking at everything it's hard to believe that Whaley played much of a role in this draft. Nobody knows for sure, but that's the impression I get when I add up all the pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 18 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Wow. Beane is Cheap! ....and nasty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: How did a talent like Allen end up at Wyoming and a dud like Mayfield end up at Oklahoma? Allen wasn’t recruited at all. Mayfield had some good offers but went to Texas Tech, got beat out by Davis Webb, and transferred to Oklahoma and won the job. He was always a huge fan of Oklahoma (even though he grew up in austin) and chose to walk on there. Edited March 15, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3-15: Bengals' Color Analyst Dave Lapham on the John Murphy Show (10:45) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I predict Mayfield goes about 20. Wouldn't doubt if Jackson is taken ahead of him. Rosen, Darnold and Allen all in top six or so, although they don't deserve to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Franco_92 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, McBean said: Josh Allen freakin sucks. Watch the tape. The guy couldn’t do it against softies in a terrible conference. When he played somebody that was worth something he folded. Terrible accuracy and despite what people think you CANNOT fix accuracy. Picking him in the first round would be awful and set this team back years. Again, McBeane isn’t that stupid. Seriously, what the hell are some of these posters smoking? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateHookerMD Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Josh Allen reminds me of Blane Gabbert coming out. Got hyped up out of no where, with no tape to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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