Video discussion about Lamar Jackson everyone should watch

[17 Josh Allen]

really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[KDIGGZ]

It can't be because he's just not a very good passer with poor form and accuracy? Has to be racist? Oh boy

[17 Josh Allen]

But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

I disagree that the color of his skin has anything to do with most people’s assessment of him. Most people are siting accuracy issues, low velocity, etc, as issues, not skin color.

[whatdrought]

Just now, Thurmanator 12074 said:

But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. 

 

I don't want to comment on Jackson himself cause I don't know much about him... But, statistics don't matter when it comes to seeing how the player will translate. 

 

This idea of a racial bias against black QB's is, in my opinion, over trumped. It was all we heard when Taylor was benched and they used stats to prove that he was a great QB who didn't need to be benched, but us watching the games knew better. 

[17 Josh Allen]

That accuracy issue has been debunked. So many dropped passes he would be right up there as far as the other QB’s 

[Acantha]

Just now, Thurmanator 12074 said:

But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. 

College football is a very different game.  His throwing style, not to mention his actual throws, matter.  Against better defenses, his stats wouldn't be the same.

 

That said, I don't hate Jackson.  He's a 2nd to 3rd tier prospect that certainly has the potential to be a good QB.  He's just got a lot to overcome. 

[ddaryl]

8 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

cut it out with this non sense. Color has nothing to do with anything here.

 

 

[17 Josh Allen]

Well I will say this I think he will end up being better then Cam Newton. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[whatdrought]

Also of note in this thread... Chris Simms is almost as annoying to look at/listen to as his father is... 

[ndirish1978]

3 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. 

 

Accuracy issue has not been debunked. Stats are garbage if you don't accompany them with gametape. Have you actually watched his games? 

[whatdrought]

Just now, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Well I will say these I think he will end up being better then Cam Newton. 

 

That very well might be the case, but since you mentioned Cam, doesn't he kind of debunk the idea that Jackson gets no credit because he's black? 

[billspro]

I don't think his accuracy issues are correctable in the pros. Lots of people try to compare him to Watson and I just don't see it. I had Watson graded as a top 5 selection. Jackson is my 8th ranked QB this year.

 

I honestly would not draft him before the end of the second round at the earliest.

[whatdrought]

So, my initial comments were made without watching the full video so I would like to point out a couple things now that I have seen it. 

 

1- Whoever the non-simms guy is is reaching really hard to make his point about racial profiling. Black QB's have (at least the past 20 years that I've been watching football) been given every chance to succeed. 

 

2- When you're using Vince Young as your example piece, you're immediately losing. 

 

3- I stand corrected on my last point. Chris Simms is more annoying than his dad. 

[Like A Mofo]

3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I don't want to comment on Jackson himself cause I don't know much about him... But, statistics don't matter when it comes to seeing how the player will translate. 

 

This idea of a racial bias against black QB's is, in my opinion, over trumped. It was all we heard when Taylor was benched and they used stats to prove that he was a great QB who didn't need to be benched, but us watching the games knew better. 

 

 

I do think there are drops of racism when it comes to African-American QB's in the NFL but it is not an epidemic like those who will cherry pick experts who say things that can be construed as 'racist' and run with it on Twitter, get thousands of retweets and replies, and spark rage that is truly exaggerated.

 

Example of the cherry picking: Los Angles Angeles phenom prospect Shohei Ohtan, I have read two different comparisons to him, and to who?

 

Yu Darvish

 

Why can't Ohtan be compared to Kershaw? David Price?

 

Are we seeing an influx of rage tweets from Asians going off about racism?

 

Nope.

The cherries for that incident, very similar to that of Lamar Jackson, are just not ripe enough to garner the RT's and likes and attention people so desperately crave on social media these days.

 

People need to calm down a bit.

 

 

[17 Josh Allen]

6 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

That very well might be the case, but since you mentioned Cam, doesn't he kind of debunk the idea that Jackson gets no credit because he's black? 

 

I compared him to Cam because his size and how he plays football. Jackson mostly compares to how Cam Newton plays. Now if the way he plays the game was like Kurt Cousins I would have compared him to Kurt Cousins. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Like A Mofo said:

 

 

I do think there are drops of racism when it comes to African-American QB's in the NFL but it is not an epidemic like those who will cherry pick experts who say things that can be construed as 'racist' and run with it on Twitter, get thousands of retweets and replies, and spark rage that is truly exaggerated.

 

Example of the cherry picking: Los Angles Angeles phenom prospect Shohei Ohtan, I have read two different comparisons to him, and to who?

 

Yu Darvish

 

Why can't Ohtan be compared to Kershaw? David Price?

 

Are we seeing an influx of rage tweets from Asians going off about racism?

 

Nope.

The cherries for that incident, very similar to that of Lamar Jackson, are just not ripe enough to garner the RT's and likes and attention people so desperately crave on social media these days.

 

People need to calm down a bit.

 

 

David price has no balls. I'd rather be compared to Yu.

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, Like A Mofo said:

 

 

I do think there are drops of racism when it comes to African-American QB's in the NFL but it is not an epidemic like those who will cherry pick experts who say things that can be construed as 'racist' and run with it on Twitter, get thousands of retweets and replies, and spark rage that is truly exaggerated.

 

Example of the cherry picking: Los Angles Angeles phenom prospect Shohei Ohtan, I have read two different comparisons to him, and to who?

 

Yu Darvish

 

Why can't Ohtan be compared to Kershaw? David Price?

 

Are we seeing an influx of rage tweets from Asians going off about racism?

 

Nope.

The cherries for that incident, very similar to that of Lamar Jackson, are just not ripe enough to garner the RT's and likes and attention people so desperately crave on social media these days.

 

People need to calm down a bit.

 

 

 

I guess my response to the idea that there's racial profiling regarding the QB position is show me one guy who missed a chance simply because of his color? I don't doubt that racism is alive and well (though highly overdone in today's world), but we're talking about a multi-million dollar industry where winning is everything. 

I grew up watching Culpepper and McNabb and never thought twice about their color. Vick will likely be in the hall of fame some day (would be a lock if not for his issues). Newton still has the chance to win a Superbowl and change his story. 

I know that black QB's are the minority, but I have yet to see any evidence that that has anything to do with bias and not skill. 

 

Also, I don't follow the NBA so I'm not sure what you're talking about. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by whatdrought

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I just look at it like... if you want a conventional pocket passer... don't draft this guy. 

 

If you want to build a unique offense around his skill sets.  Then draft this guy.  

 

He very likely rushes for 800-1000 yards a year.  He's very likely going to be a monster in the red zone.  He'll probably hover around 60% completion percentage unless you add more screens... but i don't think that's how you would build an offense around the guy.  He really needs the most work on throwing while on the move, he always like fully stops and plants his feet.  

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

 

I compared him to Cam because his size and how he plays football. Jackson mostly compares to how Cam Newton plays. Now if the way he plays the game was like Kurt Cousins I would have compared him to Kurt Cousins. 

 

Newton weighs 30 pounds more than Jackson and is 3 inches taller. Size doesn't match up. I don't know about playing style. 

 

Also, my comment was made more to do with the fact that if systematic racism existed against Black guys making it at QB in the NFL, How do you explain Cam Newton?

Edited March 8, 2018 by whatdrought

[Gugny]

16 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. 

 

Statistics also make Tyrod look like a good passer.

 

And college statistics don't mean anything with regard to a college player's game translating to the NFL.

 

Lastly, shame on bleacher report for playing the race card.  That **** is old, tired and simply wrong.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. 

 

 

 

Meh.  I really like Jackson.  But I don't think it's racist to refer to him as a bit of a project.  He is a bit of a project. 

He's done some good stuff, and his WR didn't help him out too much, and there are times when his technique isn't right and he's inaccurate because of it.

 

What I think is racist is referring to Jackson as a project and Allen as a #1 pick. 

 

Allen is a project x2.  He's inaccurate at times for reasons I can't pick up.  If you can't pick it up, you can't fix it.  I doubt me some me on that topic, but I've also read some pretty good draft analysts saying as much.

 

Jackson is not the best QB in the draft - looking at nothing else (height etc), that might be Mayfield or that might be Rosen (depending upon how you weight things).

 

But I'd be happy if we were able to give Jackson a shot.

 

Now, repeatedly asking him to work out or change positions or what have you at WR that's just wrong.

 

13 minutes ago, billspro said:

I don't think his accuracy issues are correctable in the pros. Lots of people try to compare him to Watson and I just don't see it. I had Watson graded as a top 5 selection. Jackson is my 8th ranked QB this year.

 

I honestly would not draft him before the end of the second round at the earliest.

 

So what do you think of Allen's accuracy issues and where do you have him ranked?

Edited March 8, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[17 Josh Allen]

You just made my point they wanted him to work out as a receiver at the combine. We are in 2018 are we not. I’m glad he did not do anything else but throw. I’m glad he told them to go stick where the sun don’t shine. 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[John from Riverside]

I just dont want to go down the road of making it about race...I really just dont.

 

The guy is loaded with talent and was productive in College.......he got better every year....he was throwing to targets that will not be drafted......

 

At 21.....I take a chance on this kid.

[whatdrought]

The biggest problem I have with this idea that black QB's get treated differently because of racism is that it lessens real life racism. Racism is a foul disease that exists in the shadows (and far too often in the light) of ignorance. It needs to be addressed and eradicated. The problem exists that when we as a society call anything and everything racism without facts and evidence we muddy the water and make it impossible to address real racism because we've lost the ability to define it. 

 

At the end of the day, the goal is to find a QB who can succeed consistently and efficiently at the NFL level. I could care less what color their skin is, I care what color jersey they wear. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Statistics also make Tyrod look like a good passer.

 

And college statistics don't mean anything with regard to a college player's game translating to the NFL.

Lastly, shame on bleacher report for playing the race card.  That **** is old, tired and simply wrong.

 

Tyrod is a good passer.  His problem isn't his ability to throw - which he's worked on through and after college, and improved.

 

His problem is being able to read coverages and react to them fast enough, and being willing to pull the trigger into a tight window.  Now maybe he doesn't have enough arm strength for some of that and knows it, but I think it's more a mental thing.

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

You just made my point they wanted him to work out as a receiver at the combine. We are in 2018 are we not. I’m glad he did not do anything else but throw. I’m glad he told them to go stick where the sun don’t shine. 

 

 

What does this prove? How exactly is it racist to ask a super athletic guy to work out in multiple positions? 

[17 Josh Allen]

So how come there not asking Rosen to work out at WR then 

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Meh.  I really like Jackson.  But I don't think it's racist to refer to him as a bit of a project.  He is a bit of a project. 

He's done some good stuff, and his WR didn't help him out too much, and there are times when his technique isn't right and he's inaccurate because of it.

 

What I think is racist is referring to Jackson as a project and Allen as a #1 pick. 

 

Allen is a project x2.  He's inaccurate at times for reasons I can't pick up.  If you can't pick it up, you can't fix it.  I doubt me some me on that topic, but I've also read some pretty good draft analysts saying as much.

 

Jackson is not the best QB in the draft - looking at nothing else (height etc), that might be Mayfield or that might be Rosen (depending upon how you weight things).

 

But I'd be happy if we were able to give Jackson a shot.

 

Now, repeatedly asking him to work out or change positions or what have you at WR that's just wrong.

 

 

So what do you think of Allen's accuracy issues and where do you have him ranked?

 

 

I think the reason that Allen is going to get a little less controversy with the accuracy (right or wrong) is because people think he has the arm strength to make up for some of the issues, which could prove to be true. The fact that Jackson has accuracy issues and questionable arm strength might be problematic. 

 

I'm not saying it'll shake out any such way, but none-the-less, that's what I've seen. 

1 minute ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

So how come there not asking Rosen to work out at WR then 

 

Seriously? You must be kidding. Rosen has no athletic ability. If you draft him as a QB and he doesn't pan out, you have nothing. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I disagree that the color of his skin has anything to do with most people’s assessment of him. Most people are siting accuracy issues, low velocity, etc, as issues, not skin color.

 

Now this is new, where's the "low velocity" thing outside of OurLads which has been debunked as diverging from official velocity numbers?

None of the scouts who watch film on Jackson in college have commented on velocity issues or arm strength as they do with Rudolph, Lauletta, etc.

 

It seems to be a point that Allen, who has worse accuracy issues in games, is being cited as having a 'ton of potential' while Jackson, who does have some accuracy issues but who plays in a pro-style offense and goes through progressions, is being cited as playing "backyard football" and called a "project" and asked to change to WR.

 

I don't know what's behind it - could be racism.  Could be all the scouts and teams in love with the Search for the Next Big Ben.  Could be the fact that Jackson's rushing abilities are so stunning that it's literally hard to watch game film and see him throw.

 

It's worth pointing out and I thoroughly respect it that Jackson has consistently refused to "go there" when bluntly questioned.  He just says he doesn't know about racism, he just knows he's strictly a QB.

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

I think the reason that Allen is going to get a little less controversy with the accuracy (right or wrong) is because people think he has the arm strength to make up for some of the issues, which could prove to be true. The fact that Jackson has accuracy issues and questionable arm strength might be problematic.

 

Still like to see where Jackson's arm strength has been questioned more than the other QB (outside Allen).

4 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

So how come there not asking Rosen to work out at WR then 

 

LOL 'cuz Rosen got no moves, man, NO moves.  He's a QB, or he's trash.

 

Jackson, on the other hand, runs down a football field accompanied by the "whump" of jocks tumbling out of the shorts of the guys trying to tackle him.

 

Now Allen...he's got some moves.

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Now this is new, where's the "low velocity" thing outside of OurLads which has been debunked as diverging from official velocity numbers?

None of the scouts who watch film on Jackson in college have commented on velocity issues or arm strength as they do with Rudolph, Lauletta, etc.

 

It seems to be a point that Allen, who has worse accuracy issues in games, is being cited as having a 'ton of potential' while Jackson, who does have some accuracy issues but who plays in a pro-style offense and goes through progressions, is being cited as playing "backyard football" and called a "project" and asked to change to WR.

 

I don't know what's behind it - could be racism.  Could be all the scouts and teams in love with the Search for the Next Big Ben.  Could be the fact that Jackson's rushing abilities are so stunning that it's literally hard to watch game film and see him throw.

 

It's worth pointing out and I thoroughly respect it that Jackson has consistently refused to "go there" when bluntly questioned.  He just says he doesn't know about racism, he just knows he's strictly a QB.

 

Still like to see where Jackson's arm strength has been questioned more than the other QB (outside Allen).

 

LOL 'cuz Rosen got no moves, man, NO moves.  He's a QB, or he's trash.

 

Jackson, on the other hand, runs down a football field accompanied by the "whump" of jocks tumbling out of the shorts of the guys trying to tackle him.

 

Now Allen...he's got some moves.

 

Well, I saw the thing from Ourlads, but If that is unreliable than I do not know and I may very well be wrong. 

 

Though I would say that it seems pretty obvious that Allen has a higher ceiling as a straight passer due to his incredible arm so if the two of them had the same accuracy knocks, that might be where Allen get's labeled differently. 

[mjt328]

Ugh.  Another video pushing the racism angle.

 

The word "project" quarterback is used for 95% of the guys out there.  Pretty much anyone that isn't playing in an under center Pro-Style offense, who doesn't go to a big school or who doesn't have excellent throwing mechanics is considered a project.  I've seen the same term thrown around for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold plenty over the last few weeks.

 

People see Lamar Jackson as another QB who used his legs a lot in college to achieve success.  His accuracy is questionable.  He's just barely at the height threshold, but has a small frame.  It's not about his skin color.  People said the same thing (and were right) about Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, Matt Jones and countless others.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

43 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I disagree that the color of his skin has anything to do with most people’s assessment of him. Most people are siting accuracy issues, low velocity, etc, as issues, not skin color.

I call BS!!

[Tatonka68]

4 INT's in his last game, Tax-slayer Bowl. Totally overrated and QB's like him are only good against sub par defenses. Tyrod 2.0. Enough with this guy please.

[Solomon Grundy]

42 minutes ago, Acantha said:

College football is a very different game.  His throwing style, not to mention his actual throws, matter.  Against better defenses, his stats wouldn't be the same.

 

That said, I don't hate Jackson.  He's a 2nd to 3rd tier prospect that certainly has the potential to be a good QB.  He's just got a lot to overcome. 

But Josh Allen is top tier? I call BS!!

[brianthomas]

A post last night showed what the velocity numbers were for the qb's that threw at the combine. Jackson had one of the worst (slowest) velocity on his throws. Combine that with his accuracy stats from college, along with his combine performance & i think thats why people are critical of Jackson.

 

I dont see how it can be race when alot of people are saying Barkley should be #1 off the board. He's black... excuse me (african american), people arent racist where he's concerned. This Bleacher Report article just screams of sensationalism for click bait. It's a shame they went the race card route just for clicks. But hey i guess it worked since we're actually talking about it.

[Tatonka68]

2 minutes ago, the skycap said:

But Josh Allen is top tier? I call BS!!

Nope, not sold on him either. Want Pocket Passer who can read a defense. Not interested in either.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Tatonka68

[CommonCents]

I always thought the word project was used with players who had to alter their mechanics in order to be successful at the next level. I never realized it was being used to compare QBs to low income housing. My bad.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

42 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Accuracy issue has not been debunked. Stats are garbage if you don't accompany them with gametape. Have you actually watched his games? 

If you watched his games, you'd see all the passes that were dropped by his receivers. ALL QBs have errand throws!!

[Luxy312]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Tyrod is a good passer.  His problem isn't his ability to throw - which he's worked on through and after college, and improved.

 

His problem is being able to read coverages and react to them fast enough, and being willing to pull the trigger into a tight window.  Now maybe he doesn't have enough arm strength for some of that and knows it, but I think it's more a mental thing.

 

I agree with this, but would add as well that Tyrod can't anticipate where the proverbial window is supposed to show up.  It's not just about it being a tight window, but anticipatory passing.  Just terrible.