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Vontae a Bill!!

YoloinOhio

By YoloinOhio
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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Posted
Just now, Ittakestime said:

 

For a 30 year old CB, who was demoted last year?  He should have got the David Amerson deal:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/david-amerson-12332/

 

For a 2-time pro bowl cornerback who was demoted when he couldn't play through a groin injury

 

And no, he shouldn't get the same money as Amerson, who went through 3 teams prior to finding his niche as a middling starter.  Davis is one year older than Joe Haden, who got $9M AAV last offseason.  By comparison, he's a bargain.

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YoloinOhio
YoloinOhio

I love the signing but the Bills still need to address the position. Shareece Wright as the backup absolutely killed us last year.

ndirish1978
ndirish1978

You DO know that McBeane is the nickname given to two separate people right? Our GM's name is Beane and our coach's name is McDermott. I feel like I've seen this from several people around here. There

Fan in Chicago
Fan in Chicago

Love the signing. But more importantly you beat 26CB and Yolo and earned a badge. Quite the story to tell your grandkids. 

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

 

For a 30 year old CB, who was demoted last year?  He should have got the David Amerson deal:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/david-amerson-12332/

 

LOL...randomly picking a corner who makes a lower salary to prove a point?

Thinking David and Amerson are at the same level for the market is absurd.

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NastyNateSoldiers Veteran

NastyNateSoldiers

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2 hours ago, greenwithenvy said:

I love the ego on fans that tell others to 'learn to watch football'.  Get over yourself.  You have no idea the knowledge/experience of who you are talking to.  The assumption that you're a more intelligent fan is hilarious.

 

As to the rest, please.  The Rams traded a player + a 2nd for a 1 year rental who their scheme uses as a decoy or field stretcher.  LMAO.  Not bloody likely.  They thought they were getting a potential #1 or a #2 at worst.  Once again, Sammy came up short of expectations.  Think the Rams make the trade again with the benefit of hindsight?  After all, he did what he was supposed to.  What more could they want?

 

Potential without production is meaningless.

Other then the ego thing i agree 1000% with what he said Sammy was a huge reason for there success last yr. The type of attention he got opened things up for everyone else. 

 

Also Greg Cosell of NFL films and he studies all the gms player by player said Sammy was wide open a ton of times.  But the position he plays the X spot in that offense is not highly targeted . That might explain the 70 targets he got during the season. 

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Reed83HOF All Pro

Reed83HOF

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16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So since Jimmy Garoppolo got $27.5M, so too should Geno Smith, right?  Most recent!

 

Depends if the flat earth thing works out or not...JMO

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He played through an injury that has been surgically repaired and 30 isn't what I consider to be old. 

 

Especially playing in a zone scheme and not man - not a big deal

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ColoradoBills Hall of Famer

ColoradoBills

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

What are you talking about???

 

His base deal value is $5M.  He can earn up to $8M in incentives, which means that the additional $3M doesn't count against the cap.

 

$5M for a starting CB, when you're paying your other starting CB a rookie salary, is a steal.

 

 

If he does get the incentives it would be charged to next years cap but it's still a great signing for Buffalo.

Here is a good explanation for incentives if anyone wants to know.

Welcome to Buffalo Vontae!

 

Incentives are written into some contracts to pay a player for reaching certain performance criteria. Incentives come in two varieties – Likely To Be Earned (LTBE) and Not Likely To Be Earned (NLTBE) – each of which has different Salary Cap implications.

Likely To Be Earned Incentives (LTBE) are incentives based on performance levels that were reached in the prior season. LTBEs count against the Salary Cap in the year they are scheduled.

For example, if a RB ran for 1,200 yards last year and he has an incentive that will pay him $100,000 if he runs for 1,000 yards this year, the incentive would be a LTBE Incentive and would count against the Salary Cap this year.

On the other hand, if the RB ran for 1,000 yards last year and he has an incentive that will pay him $100,000 if he runs for 1,200 yards this year, then incentive would be Not Likely To Be Earned (NLTBE) and would not count against this year’s Salary Cap.

If the player does not earn a LTBE Incentive, then the amount of the incentive ($100K in our example) will be credited against the following year’s Salary Cap and the team would have $100K in additional Cap space in the following year.

The opposite happens with NLTBE Incentives. If those are earned, they are charged to the following year’s Salary Cap. In our example, that would mean that the team would have $100K less in Cap space the following year.

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cba fan Veteran

cba fan

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1 hour ago, MTBill said:

No time to read this whole thread....

 

I like the move - save a draft pick - and money that Gaines will want...  Of course others here will be all - 'There goes our compensatory picks in 2019'....  :)

 

We have 3 FA CB this offseason - this move replaces one of them at least.  Who knows what we do otherwise - EJ G could still be in Buffalo if he isn't asking for the moon in salary - but I expect he wants more than the Bills want to pay him.  This is saving/clearing cap room for other FA moves - and quite possibly a low risk upgrade.

 

Davis was cut so he should not count in the compensatory formula.

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

 

 

You are thinking of Davis from 3 to 4 years ago.  This is a CB who literally got benched last year and isn't young anymore.

 

Yes and that Davis 3-4 years ago signed a 4 year/$39 million dollar deal with $20 million guaranteed.

Now he makes $5 million which is the market for his age and level.

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nucci Hall of Famer

nucci

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2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

I got to say I love that the Bills can attract early contracts like this.

Maybe the worm is turning and McDermott/Beane are turning some heads around the league.

 

Gaines out, Davis in.

 

A move like this is usually done by teams like that one from Boston!

it helps that we made the playoffs last year. That means a lot to players

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NastyNateSoldiers Veteran

NastyNateSoldiers

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He played through an injury that has been surgically repaired and 30 isn't what I consider to be old. 

For Corners its definitely getting up there Revis and Asomugha (excuse my spelling )were in sharp decline at this age as well as others.

54 minutes ago, cba fan said:

Davis was cut so he should not count in the compensatory formula.

I realize this is the case and its great if u can take advantage of it but we have way to many holes to sit around and wait for a 4th rder for Gaines.

54 minutes ago, cba fan said:

 

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Buddo RFA

Buddo

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By the sounds of it, a fair deal. $3.5 million guaranteed, with bonuses that can take it up to $8 million, if they are all hit - which also means that at least a proportion of that $8 million, will be coming out of next years cap. When we have more room.

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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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Posted
2 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Signing Davis won't stop the Bills from selecting a CB high again in this draft.

 

I can easily see the Bills taking Alexander in the second round (assuming they still keep their picks).

I hope not

 

Not only do we have 2 very good starting corners but they have been good at finding those fringe guys so that cap can go towards other needs.......

 

If we trade away the farm to get into the blue chip QBs we not even have that 2nd round pick

 

If we stand pat and take a guy like Lamar Jackson.....we also have definate needs at RT, LB, pass rush

 

Personally.....I am wondering if it might be smart to trade down from 21 to later in the 1st round in hopes Lamar Jackson is still there....and aquire a additional 2nd rounder

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TPS All Pro

TPS

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3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Ian Rapoport ‏ Verified account @RapSheet 6m6 minutes ago More The #Bills signed former #Colts CB Vontae Davis to a 1-year worth $5M base, source said, with $3.5M of that guaranteed. The max he can earn is $8M.

 

Leavs Buffalo with ~$28.8M in cap space at the moment. Figure $8M of that will go to draft picks, so you've got ~$20M to spend on re-signings and UFAs

What is the expectation for EWood’s impact? I assume it will be designated a post June 1 release?

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ColoradoBills Hall of Famer

ColoradoBills

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39 minutes ago, TPS said:

What is the expectation for EWood’s impact? I assume it will be designated a post June 1 release?

 

Yep, it seems that is why they are holding off on the "official" retirement.

You always need some cap space for the season so I would assume they will use Wood's for that.

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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

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Bill Barnwell ESPN Staff Writer 

The one-year, $5-million deal the Bills inked with Vontae Davis is a good short-term risk for a team who probably would have had to pay more to bring back the oft-injured E.J. Gaines next season. Davis slipped badly in 2016 and was impacted by injuries in 2017, but the former Colts standout won't turn 30 until May and was a legitimate number-one cornerback up to that point. In a free-agent pool where mid-market starting corners are likely to approach $10 million per season with two years of guaranteed money, getting Davis on a short-term pact for half that is a win for Bills general manager Brandon Beane.

 

:beer:

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greenwithenvy Probation

greenwithenvy

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

The production is there in the case.

Stat sheets for a single player do not show their true worth many times.

It's one reason why a player with seemingly worse statistics wins an MVP, or why you can't build a team based on fantasy football statistics.

 

Claiming Watkins was a worse wr than kupp based solely on his statistics is absurd, and proves my point that, in this case, I am positive this person did not watch any footage/games with Watkins on the Rams.

 

He drew double coverages on the outside, would be stacked next to kupp and draw the double on a deeper slant, leaving kupp wide open underneath.

The Rams system rotates receivers though multiple positions on the field and doesn't focus one guy.

 

I actually provided a very good article which breaks down exactly how valuable Watkins was to them, that it's beyond box numbers.

 

I'll use the Bills as an example, 2002 eric moulds and peerless price had almost identical yardage, with price having a higher ypc.

Moulds was a legit #1 who drew doubles, price had it easy on the other side.

He went to Atlanta and was barely average.

Why?

He didn't have anybody to draw coverage.

 

 

A top talent wr eats coverages, leaving the other guys open.

That's a fact.

If you don't know that, then you don't watch football, or don't know what you're watching, which proves my statement of "learn to watch football"

Has to do with facts, not ego.

You'll have to show me where anybody has said the bolded.  That kind of hyperbole/extrapolation makes discussion difficult.  Watkins is an extremely talented player.  I don't think anybody disputes that.  Certainly more talented then Kupp.  The problem is, at this point, he is unrealized talent.

 

No, stats sheets do not show a players entire value.  Of course not.  However, you cannot simply ignore them at a position like WR.  Do you really believe the Rams thought they were trading for a field spacer/coverage eater with little production?  Nobody values that at a 2nd round pick +.  Great, he draws a double team most of the time.  So does the #1 receiver on every team in football.  Why does he have so much trouble producing vs other top WR's?  A top WR talent produces, regardless of coverage.  That's a fact.  Do OBJ/Evans/Brown/a dozen other #1 WR not face these impenetrable defences?

 

He might still reach his potential but it's perfectly fair to wonder if it will ever happen.  Every year that passes it becomes less likely.  At this point, outside of about a 10 game stretch, he's been no more than average over a 4 year career.  4 years is not a small sample size.

Edited by greenwithenvy
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SouthNYfan Veteran

SouthNYfan

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

Watkins, in the one of the most high powered offenses last year, whilst staying healthy, got outplayed by Cooper Kupp. The guys is always primed for a good season, he never has them. People need to stop living off hope with Watkins.

 

11 minutes ago, greenwithenvy said:

You'll have to show me where anybody has said the bolded.  That kind of hyperbole/extrapolation makes discussion difficult.  Watkins is an extremely talented player.  I don't think anybody disputes that.  Certainly more talented then Kupp.  The problem is, at this point, he is unrealized talent.

 

No, stats sheets do not show a players entire value.  Of course not.  However, you cannot simply ignore them at a position like WR.  Do you really believe the Rams thought they were trading for a field spacer/coverage eater with little production?  Nobody values that at a 2nd round pick +.  Great, he draws a double team most of the time.  So does the #1 receiver on every team in football.  Why does he have so much trouble producing vs other top WR's?  A top WR talent produces, regardless of coverage.  That's a fact.  Do OBJ/Evans/Brown/a dozen other #1 WR not face these impenetrable defences?

 

He might still reach his potential but it's perfectly fair to wonder if it will ever happen.  Every year that passes it becomes less likely.  At this point, outside of about a 10 game stretch, he's been no more than average over a 4 year career.  4 years is not a small sample size.

 

I quoted the original post I was referring to, when I told somebody to "learn to watch football" 

Claiming he was "outplayed by kupp" because kupp had better stats at the end of the year

I was pointing out that Sammy was very important to that offense, moreso than kupp, even if the end of year #s didn't show it, and most of kupp/woods #s came from Sammy (and gurley obv) spacing the field

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying that he might not have lived up to the full potential that they wanted, but my point was to act like he was a  lesser impact on offense than the receivers whom he opened up the field for based solely on end of year yardage/receptions was completely false if the people actually watched the film.

 

Sammy was a very key part of the #1 scoring offense on the NFL

He was a bigger part than kupp

No he wasn't on obj/brown level, but he wasn't the hot garbage hyperbole people make him out to be

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Pine Barrens Mafia Hall of Famer

Pine Barrens Mafia

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9 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

I quoted the original post I was referring to, when I told somebody to "learn to watch football" 

Claiming he was "outplayed by kupp" because kupp had better stats at the end of the year

I was pointing out that Sammy was very important to that offense, moreso than kupp, even if the end of year #s didn't show it, and most of kupp/woods #s came from Sammy (and gurley obv) spacing the field

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying that he might not have lived up to the full potential that they wanted, but my point was to act like he was a  lesser impact on offense than the receivers whom he opened up the field for based solely on end of year yardage/receptions was completely false if the people actually watched the film.

 

Sammy was a very key part of the #1 scoring offense on the NFL

He was a bigger part than kupp

No he wasn't on obj/brown level, but he wasn't the hot garbage hyperbole people make him out to be

 

#elitedecoy

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greenwithenvy Probation

greenwithenvy

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Posted
3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

I quoted the original post I was referring to, when I told somebody to "learn to watch football" 

Claiming he was "outplayed by kupp" because kupp had better stats at the end of the year

I was pointing out that Sammy was very important to that offense, moreso than kupp, even if the end of year #s didn't show it, and most of kupp/woods #s came from Sammy (and gurley obv) spacing the field

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying that he might not have lived up to the full potential that they wanted, but my point was to act like he was a  lesser impact on offense than the receivers whom he opened up the field for based solely on end of year yardage/receptions was completely false if the people actually watched the film.

 

Sammy was a very key part of the #1 scoring offense on the NFL

He was a bigger part than kupp

No he wasn't on obj/brown level, but he wasn't the hot garbage hyperbole people make him out to be

You got me with the bolded.  Fair enough.  I still don't think most fans would argue Kupp>Watkins.  He was drafted with the expectation of being on the elite level ala OBJ/Brown and I think that colors expectations a bit as well.  If he was drafted 28th people wouldn't be as hard on him.

 

So how about that Vontae Davis signing...

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