Zay Jones right now is a bust

[KD in CA]

I know Foreigner is still technically a rookie on TBD, but I don't think it's too early to call him a bust.  His posting career is going nowhere.

[bobobonators]

14 games does not a bust make. 

[Chicken Boo]

Good thing the Eagles gave up on Nelson Agholor.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

Good thing the Eagles gave up on Nelson Agholor.  

 

Indeed. 

[Foreigner]

Talking about going nowhere, 32,552 posts. Sorry, it is what it is, and if Zay Jones is your favorite

player, good luck.

I said he is a bust NOW after 14 games. Who knows how his Pro career will turn out, but after 14 games

he is not cutting it.

[Maine-iac]

You can tell someones agenda when you mention that a player can't catch and they talk about the QB.  When the balls are hitting him dead in the hands and he doesn't catch it there's no blaming the QB.  Jones has made himself look bad time and time again.  Most feel he will snap out of it and I think it's not uncommon for a rookie to struggle but let's get one thing straight, Jones dropping passes is completely on Jones.

[Dr.Sack]

Jones has shown an inability to catch 50/50 balls, meaning he’s not likely going to be a stud. Still doesn’t render him a Bust. See Robert Woods, Peerless Price. That’s what you’re hoping Zay can become. 

[BigDingus]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

20 catches for 279 yards

 

and 29 catches for 294 yards...

 

 

 

Eric Moulds first 2 years...

 

i give receivers 3 years

 

They don't need 3... Not in today's NFL where the game & rules are setup around making the passing game easier and more dominant. DBs don't have half the tools available to them they did in the past, as now they'd get flagged constantly. QB's are protected more than ever before. Schemes and formations have changed more towards a pro-spread system. QB's take most of their snaps out of shotgun now. 

Seriously, WR's have it far easier now than even 10-15 years ago. They can come out & make an impact right away. And you may have to learn to deal with the speed of the NFL, the timing, the routes, etc. but the one thing you don't have to relearn is how to catch a ball. And Zay Jones has been awful at that.

And yes, the announcers said he had one of the worst reception rates in the league along with highest drop rate. That's not ok for even a rookie, and especially not a highly touted 2nd round pick. He should get 1 more year, but 3 is too much. If you can't figure out how to catch a ball in 32 games, you're not going to. Moulds wasn't dropping balls. Moulds wasn't targeted as many times a Zay. Moulds wasn't an instant starter. Moulds didn't play in an era where the passing game thrives like it does today.

[Dadonkadonk]

24 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

14 games does not a bust make. 

How many? 28? 32?

If it was route running I would give him a pass. What does being a rookie have to do with catching the football?

Truly hope he turns it around and as I posted in my thread, I throw the kid a WR screen on the first series to get him going.  

[BigDingus]

12 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

You can tell someones agenda when you mention that a player can't catch and they talk about the QB.  When the balls are hitting him dead in the hands and he doesn't catch it there's no blaming the QB.  Jones has made himself look bad time and time again.  Most feel he will snap out of it and I think it's not uncommon for a rookie to struggle but let's get one thing straight, Jones dropping passes is completely on Jones.

 

Absolutely agree that it's mainly on him. Tyrod has not been a good passer this year, nor has he shown an ability to "throw receivers open" or hit timing routes. He also plays it safe and won't throw to guys who aren't wide open most of the time. However, he's given Jones numerous chances and hit him in stride, in the hands, or at least in very close vicinity where most NFL receivers would catch the ball, but nope. Zay simply doesn't come down with the catch.

[Coach Tuesday]

He’s not a bust, yet.

 

He just sucks.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Foreigner said:

This game could have been put away much earlier if Zay Jones, who at one time was called our #1 WR

didn't drop a throw that was on the money.

I thought I heard the announcer on the telecast say he has been targeted 60 times this year with 25 receptions,

and for anyone targeted over 50 times this year, he has the most drops of anyone in the NFL. That is 

pathetic for a 2nd round pick #37 in the 2017 draft.

You can talk all you want about Watkins, Woods or Goodwin, but they all have been more productive. 

 

Can a second round pick in his 1st year with really no QB be considered a bust.

 

also where are you getting your drop numbers from?

 

here he has 2. Leader has 8 

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills-team-stats?season=2017&week=0&category=RECEIVING

 

two here as well.  Hopkins has three by the way

 

http://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=AFC&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=

 

Not in top 11 here either hmmmmm 

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&rank=232&type=Receiving&year=

 

 

So where are you getting he is top 10 in drops Or is it just making something up???

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by MAJBobby

[BigDingus]

Just now, Dadonkadonk said:

How many? 28? 32?

If it was route running I would give him a pass. What does being a rookie have to do with catching the football?

Truly hope he turns it around and as I posted in my thread, I throw the kid a WR screen on the first series to get him going.  

 

Yep. People act like rookie WR's don't come in and consistently contribute all the time. They do. And even if their overall numbers aren't lights out, they also are a byproduct of how many attempts they get, how much play time they get, how big of a focal point of the offensive gameplan they are, etc.

If they have 280 yards and 30 receptions, it's usually because they're 3rd or 4th string who only play limited snaps and don't get a lot of targets. Not instant day-1 starters who get 60-70 targets and only come away with 1/3 of them. Big difference.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

They don't need 3... Not in today's NFL where the game & rules are setup around making the passing game easier and more dominant. DBs don't have half the tools available to them they did in the past, as now they'd get flagged constantly. QB's are protected more than ever before. Schemes and formations have changed more towards a pro-spread system. QB's take most of their snaps out of shotgun now. 

Seriously, WR's have it far easier now than even 10-15 years ago. They can come out & make an impact right away. And you may have to learn to deal with the speed of the NFL, the timing, the routes, etc. but the one thing you don't have to relearn is how to catch a ball. And Zay Jones has been awful at that.

And yes, the announcers said he had one of the worst reception rates in the league along with highest drop rate. That's not ok for even a rookie, and especially not a highly touted 2nd round pick. He should get 1 more year, but 3 is too much. If you can't figure out how to catch a ball in 32 games, you're not going to. Moulds wasn't dropping balls. Moulds wasn't targeted as many times a Zay. Moulds wasn't an instant starter. Moulds didn't play in an era where the passing game thrives like it does today.

 

Yes they have it easier but that doesn't mean some don't need 2-3 years to develop. 

 

Adam Thielin , Chris Hogan, golden Tate , Doug Baldwin and I can name dozens of others that do need 3+ years to develop .

 

it happens especially coming from the AAC

[ColoradoBills]

Zay has definitely had a lot of disappointing drops.

I hope he can turn it around soon.

A great TD snag against the hated Patsies sure would help.

 

If not, I'll give him one more year.

[hondo in seattle]

48 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Until we get a more traditional quarterback that throws to his WR's more, it's tough to evaluate any of these WR's.

 

While I'm not a TT hater, I agree with this.  Tyrod has had problems getting balls to WRs throughout his tenure with the Bills.  

 

Part of the problem is that our WR corps hasn't been great and has often suffered more than it's fair share of injuries.  But part of the lack of production is on TT too.  

 

Zay does kind of have the look of a bust so far.  But you have to give him the benefit of the doubt: he's a rookie on an offense that doesn't use its WRs very effectively.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Until we get a more traditional quarterback that throws to his WR's more, it's tough to evaluate any of these WR's.

 

The football hit him in the freakin' hands. NO QB will ever be able to throw him a more perfect pass than that.  He cost us the Carolina game.

 

If you're gonna be a playoff team, you GOTTA catch those.

 

He is a bust TFN. That can change, but as of now, with a capital B.

1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Hard to catch passes that are out of bounds or knocked away by defenders.

 

And ones that hit you in the hands evidently.

[BigDingus]

34 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Yes they have it easier but that doesn't mean some don't need 2-3 years to develop. 

 

Adam Thielin , Chris Hogan, golden Tate , Doug Baldwin and I can name dozens of others that do need 3+ years to develop .

 

it happens especially coming from the AAC

 

They developed in a completely different manner. They developed by starting on the bench, then getting more reps, then getting more targets (or in Hogan's case a better QB), or were just better in the first place, etc.

Tate was 21 of 38 (55%) for 227 yards in 11 games his rookie season. Comparatively, Jones is 25 of 68 (36%) for 291 yards in 12 games... So Jones has 30 more targets and only 4 more catches than Tate had. Tate also had smaller numbers because he wasn't the #2 starting WR. Again, big difference.

 

Doug Baldwin was 51 of 86 (59%) for 788 yards in his rookie season. That's good for 3.2 receptions on 5.3 targets for 49 yards per game...Compare that to Jones who averages 1.5 receptions on 5.6 targets for 24 yards per game. That's MORE receptions on LESS targets for DOUBLE the yardage...both as rookies, only Baldwin was signed as an UNDRAFTED Free Agent compared to a high 2nd round pick!

Speaking of Undrafted Free Agents, Chris Hogan was also an UDFA...compared to a 2nd round pick who was made an instant starter....Want to know his rookie year stats while we're at it? 10 receptions on 17 targets (58%)... The dude didn't play! He was backup to the backups and a bench warmer, yet still caught almost 60% of the passes thrown his way because again, you don't forget how to catch just because you're a rookie.

 

Want to see his follow up year where he actually got SOME time on the field? 41 of 61 (67%). He still caught the ball at a high rate. The funny thing is it's still not like Chris Hogan developed into some super star or anything...His best season was with Tom Brady throwing to him, and he totaled 680 yards on 38 of 57 (66%) receptions. Besides that, all his seasons are 400-something total yards. 

Is that what we're looking for with Zay Jones? Maybe he'll blossom into a 400 yards-a-year receiving "threat" like Hogan? Everyone you mentioned had superior rookie years to Jones with less opportunities and more in their way holding them back statistically. No, you don't need 3 years. Those guys didn't.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by BigDingus

[Foreigner]

There was no excuse for the drop today. Maybe that is why he had only 2 targets, they just don't

trust him anymore. Even O'Leary had 2 catches on I believe 2 targets.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

 

They developed in a completely different manner. They developed by starting on the bench, then getting more reps, then getting more targets (or in Hogan's case a better QB), or were just better in the first place, etc.

Tate was 21 of 38 (55%) for 227 yards in 11 games his rookie season. Comparatively, Jones is 25 of 68 (36%) for 291 yards in 12 games... So Jones has 30 more targets and only 4 more catches than Tate had. Tate also had smaller numbers because he wasn't the #2 starting WR. Again, big difference.

 

Doug Baldwin was 51 of 86 (59%) for 788 yards in his rookie season. That's good for 3.2 receptions on 5.3 targets for 49 yards per game...Compare that to Jones who averages 1.5 receptions on 5.6 targets for 24 yards per game. That's MORE receptions on LESS targets for DOUBLE the yardage...both as rookies, only Baldwin was signed as an UNDRAFTED Free Agent compared to a high 2nd round pick!

Speaking of Undrafted Free Agents, Chris Hogan was also an UDFA...compared to a 2nd round pick who was made an instant starter....Want to know his rookie year stats while we're at it? 10 receptions on 17 targets (58%)... The dude didn't play! He was backup to the backups and a bench warmer, yet still caught almost 60% of the passes thrown his way because again, you don't forget how to catch just because you're a rookie.

 

Want to see his follow up year where he actually got SOME time on the field? 41 of 61 (67%). He still caught the ball at a high rate. The funny thing is it's still not like Chris Hogan developed into some super star or anything...His best season was with Tom Brady throwing to him, and he totaled 680 yards on 38 of 57 (66%) receptions. Besides that, all his seasons are 400-something total yards. 

Is that what we're looking for with Zay Jones? Maybe he'll blossom into a 400 yards-a-year receiving "threat" like Hogan? Everyone you mentioned had superior rookie years to Jones with less opportunities and more in their way holding them back statistically. No, you don't need 3 years. Those guys didn't.

 

 

I am not making excuses for Zay but saying Tate was 21-38 or 55% doesn't change my point

 

he was a second round pick and they did expect him to contribute. Their corp was pretty weak

 

Catching 55% of your balls is nice but it doesn't validate a 2nd round pick. 22 catches and no TDs is not great for a 2nd round receiver but he continued to develop 

 

same with all the good receivers in the league. They get better every year, every practice 

 

how many of Zays 68 balls were uncatchable? Again I don't think he's playing good and I'm not making excuses but he can absolutely develop 

 

When Zay was at 32 attempts he had 12 uncatchable balls. So he was 12-20 which is 60%. I don't know what the uncatchable #s are now and it doesn't excuse the drops but he some good tools to develop 

 

a lot of rookie receivers are stuggling this year including top picks Corey Davis, Mike Williams and John Ross

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Buffalo716