McBrothers "Silent Tank" occurring?

[eliteqb]

How about this scenario: the non-playoff teams would get to draft based on the best non playoff team drafting first with the second best team drafting second and so on. After all the non playoff teams have drafted then the normal order and rules would apply. This would provide the incentive to win for all teams as finishing last would have the least reward. More wins equal a better draft position.

[Gugny]

There's no "luck" to this defense. They are good.

 

Yes, they are good.

 

But the turnovers, by enlarge, have been lucky.

 

Even with the defense being great, this team is only 3-2. Wait till they go back to being good.

[Chuck Schick]

You're probably right and I agree with your sentiment but it hasn't stopped teams from trying any which way possible to draft higher in the draft where the supposed best players are. Whether it actually works is debatable as you can bring up the Tom Brady example. But, the best gamble is to try to draft higher for the projected better players and teams will do anything to get as high as possible to get a need player.

I think what looks like tanking is actually just moving pieces around to play the salary-cap game. It's not that GMs don't want to win, it's just that keeping a bunch of veterans making $8m/yr so the team can maybe finish 7-9 just doesn't make sense. Replacing those guys with younger and cheaper players, and maybe stockpiling a few picks in the process, is worth it even if it means maybe finishing 5-11.

Draft picks are a big part of that, but I really don't think they sweat it out over a few slots in the actual draft order.

[JM2009]

 

Yes, they are good.

 

But the turnovers, by enlarge, have been lucky.

 

Even with the defense being great, this team is only 3-2. Wait till they go back to being good.

They make their own luck with turning the ball over with hard play that doesn't end till the whistle. The turnovers won't stop.

[Gugny]

They make their own luck with turning the ball over with hard play that doesn't end till the whistle. The turnovers won't stop.

 

I hope you're right. But it's highly unlikely.

[liverpoolkev]

They put on a good front saying they are "trying to wn now AND trying to win for the future" but is that REALLY accurate? I don't think it is...

 

Look at what has happened in the week+ since Matthews and Clay have gone down for significant lengths of time basically turning our "average" offense with them into a disaster without them. 5 straight games with under 300 yards of total offense...we might set an NFL modern day record for that as I don't see how we get above that anytime soon without those players and people stacking the box.

 

And yet McBeane has been silent on the waiver wire/FA/trade front. This team has the chance to make the playoffs THIS YEAR but yet they will do nothing to bolster our chances. And I find that to be maddening. It's one thing if the team wasn't that good and you just let things go...it's another thing entirely when you have wins over 2 top 5 teams in the league and the defense is good enough if the offense can just literally DO ANYTHING productive. I think he owes it to those guys busting their @sses on the field AND to the fanbase who is tired of this bullcrap over the last 17 years to actually DO SOMETHING to try and help this team now.

 

I am not talking about trading a high pick for a guy necessarily, but if there is the opportunity to get a guy AND he fits in the budget/long term plans of the team WHY NOT do it? You don't HAVE TO only get players through the draft...there is the opportunity to make moves that can help the team both now and in the future that don't involve simply drafting well.

 

It's just so frustrating to see McBeane "fiddling" while the offense burns around us and nothing is done to try and fix it...another wasted season when the team was good enough to make the playoffs with a little help...so frustrating...I know the plan is to start in earnest next year with all the draft capital and likely new QB of the future, but still...

 

They aren't coming out and saying it, but you can hear it when McDermott talks about the "silver lining" being that a bunch of rookies got in there...they know they are hoping to keep losing players and be forced to play untested rookies/backups and then they have the excuse "well, we had a lot of injuries and don't have the depth yet to overcome them", but if they would just go find the depth, we COULD overcome them...but they don't want them to...kind of like in Major Leagues when the owner was secretly rooting for the team to lose so he could move them...the McBrothers are secretly hoping for the injury bug to keep hitting so they can keep slipping further and further down the standings while having nothing come back on them that we were actively "tanking" while having to play a bunch of untested depth players on the roster.

Mc Beane cant evaluate talent that's why he can make moves ....Its easy to get rid of players its hard to acquire because you have to have an eye for talent . I cant see this gm acquiring a Shady or getting a Hughes for virtually nothing do you ? Lets face facts the only reason he is here is because of McD. How are there draft picks holding up? They wanted and traded up for dawkins and Zay those two picks are killing this team because this regime thought they was ready front line players and not complimentary to Watkins and the Offensive line. Why all of a sudden Groy is not in the conversation for O-line playing time? I'm not even going to get started in Duucause and Tolbert when I last checked Mcd knew nothing about Offense but he thought the people he would get rid of in the purge was on the offensive side of the ball of young on first contract players in the name of culture change making our team the second oldest in the league. Incredible talking about someone not deserving of promotion Beame picture should be front and center

Edited October 12, 2017 by liverpoolkev

[Wayne Arnold]

They make their own luck with turning the ball over with hard play that doesn't end till the whistle. The turnovers won't stop.

 

Wishful (and naive) thinking.

 

No defense (no matter how great) can sustain turnovers.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Mc Beane cant evaluate talent that's why he can make moves ....Its easy to get rid of players its hard to acquire because you have to have an eye for talent . I cant see this gm acquiring a Shady or getting a Hughes for virtually nothing do you ? Lest face facts the only reason he is here is because of McD. How are there draft picks holding up they wanted and traded up for dawkins and Zay those two [cks are killing this team because this regime thought they was ready. I'm not even going to get started in Duucause and Tolbert when I last checked Mcd knew nothing about Offense but he thought the people he would get rid of in the purge was on the offensive side of the ball of young on first contract players in the name of culture change making our team the second oldest in the league. Incredible talking about someone not deserving of promotion Beame picture should be front and center

Bean wasn't here for the draft, those picks are on Whaley and way too early to pounce on them.

 

As for Duchasse and Tolbert, on that I agree, these ex Panthers and "good guys in the lockeroom" only gets you so far.

[liverpoolkev]

 

So you want to give away KC's #1 this week for someone who may not work out at all or get hurt immediately? Then bring Whaley back.

No I would rather Whaley trade up to get D.Watson

Bean wasn't here for the draft, those picks are on Whaley and way too early to pounce on them.

 

As for Duchasse and Tolbert, on that I agree, these ex Panthers and "good guys in the lockeroom" only gets you so far.

Sorry buddy he was stripped of making pics ... Don't try to lay this egg of the draft on Whaley...Mcbeane made it pretty clear why he wanted and traded up to get ahead of Carolina to get Dawkins and Zay Jones he was in contact with McD or did you forget that conversation on inside knowledge that Carolina was interested

Edited October 12, 2017 by liverpoolkev

[JM2009]

 

I hope you're right. But it's highly unlikely.

Other than Brady, Brees, and Smith, the QBs they will face, I have a feeling,will be turning the ball over against us. Esp Cutler.

[Gugny]

Other than Brady, Brees, and Smith, the QBs they will face, I have a feeling,will be turning the ball over against us. Esp Cutler.

 

Cutler won't need to pass.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think you're on to something. Beating Denver and Atlanta were just meant to distract us from their true intentions.

Fair point. Also Zay really made me believe he was as trying to catch that ball vs Carolina. I completely bought it.

[JM2009]

 

Cutler won't need to pass.

Yes he will. The Bills overall are pretty good against the run. Ajay hasn't done much so far. Miami will be far out of the playoff race by then too. They stink.

Edited October 12, 2017 by JM2009

[Dave in Avon Lake now]

I'm not sure if there is a conspiracy based on what I've seen but I don't get the local flavor.

 

Also, I haven't seen much of the offense this year, but am wondering what happened to the team that averaged 25 points per game. Have they been coached down to this level of mediocrity. Even though we have lost some talent since last year, it wasn't like we had a formidable receiving corps most of the year yet still managed to score points. Teams were keying on our RBs and we still made plays (more than a few by Tyrod's running skills) Maybe its time to retool and do what we do best.

[JM2009]

 

Wishful (and naive) thinking.

 

No defense (no matter how great) can sustain turnovers.

That's part of what makes a great defense, great. Or perhaps you don't want to see it continue.

Edited October 12, 2017 by JM2009

[BillnutinHouston]

 

It's just so frustrating to see McBeane "fiddling" while the offense burns around us and nothing is done to try and fix it...

It's unfortunate that you choose to be frustrated when you're standing outside the walls of OBD and are privy to none of the efforts that may or may not be happening outside of your awareness.

 

I dislike it when fans make up stories in the absence of real info. You just don't know what calls are being made by this FO.

Edited October 12, 2017 by BillnutinHouston

[liverpoolkev]

I think what looks like tanking is actually just moving pieces around to play the salary-cap game. It's not that GMs don't want to win, it's just that keeping a bunch of veterans making $8m/yr so the team can maybe finish 7-9 just doesn't make sense. Replacing those guys with younger and cheaper players, and maybe stockpiling a few picks in the process, is worth it even if it means maybe finishing 5-11.

Draft picks are a big part of that, but I really don't think they sweat it out over a few slots in the actual draft order.

That would be believable if they got rid of mostly high priced veterans but they didn't virtually everyone on the offensive side was on their 1st contract. If that was the truth Groy would be starting for us now saving us 6-8 mill a year . Kyle is not worth his price at 34 on the last year of contract. Losers stock pile picks just ask Cleveland. You need to know how to draft for example KC draft play makers not choir boys so while for example Tyreek Hill is blowing up the league we have our regime try to make a case for little Milano the little LB that could.

Edited October 12, 2017 by liverpoolkev

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

The silent tank is a brilliant concept. If they lose, they can tell people they were tanking. If they win, they can tell people they weren't tanking. Win win!!

[liverpoolkev]

It's unfortunate that you choose to be frustrated when you're standing outside the walls of OBD and are privy to none of the efforts that may or may not be happening outside of your awareness.

 

I dislike it when fans make up stories in the absence of real info. You just don't know what calls are being made by this FO.

 

Oh you mean when people make up all kind of stuff about Marcell and try to pawn it off as fact. You let me know what potential all star this regime is trying to acquire or draft .......I will wait

[oldmanfan]

 

Oh you mean when people make up all kind of stuff about Marcell and try to pawn it off as fact. You let me know what potential all star this regime is trying to acquire or draft .......I will wait

I'll start. Tre'daveous White is a candidate for defensive rookie of the year and potential All-Pro.

 

Now be quiet.

[Nick the Greek]

People complain that McBeane isn't signing enough free agents. I don't get it. Do people actually believe there is starting talent just laying around, waiting for a call?

 

This is insane! All the good players are already signed. Free agency ended months ago. Get over it!

[liverpoolkev]

People complain that McBeane isn't signing enough free agents. I don't get it. Do people actually believe there is starting talent just laying around, waiting for a call?

 

This is insane! All the good players are already signed. Free agency ended months ago. Get over it!

Oh Yeah you are right. We also believe that if there is an opportunity to acquire talent Beane is not the person to get it for your organization. He is good at giving away talent

Edited October 12, 2017 by liverpoolkev

[reddogblitz]

So you want to give away KC's #1 this week for someone who may not work out at all or get hurt immediately? Then bring Whaley back.

I can't speak for eliteqb, but I suspect (s)he was thinking more along the lines of when Whaley brought in Marques Gray and Thigpen before the Packer game in 2014 and they had an immediate impact.

 

Wether you like Whaley or not, he did have a knack for finding diamonds in the rough.

[Gugny]

Oh Yeah you are right. We also believe that if there is an opportunity to acquire talent Beane is not the person to get it for your organization. He is good at giving away talent

 

Would you buy new tires for your car if you didn't have an engine for it, yet?

 

Why would Beane spend money on FA WRs, RBs, or anyone else if he doesn't even have his QB of the future yet?

[liverpoolkev]

I'll start. Tre'daveous White is a candidate for defensive rookie of the year and potential All-Pro.

 

Now be quiet.

Really I'm sure AJ Green would agree..... Keep talking

[Gugny]

Really I'm sure AJ Green would agree..... Keep talking

 

One play. Brilliant.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

Would you buy new tires for your car if you didn't have an engine for it, yet?

 

Why would Beane spend money on FA WRs, RBs, or anyone else if he doesn't even have his QB of the future yet?

Your engine is functional, but has some issues that need addressing and you have 2 flat tires. What do you fix first?

[Gugny]

Your engine is functional, but has some issues that need addressing and you have 2 flat tires. What do you fix first?

 

The engine's issues are beyond repair. It's had the same issues for 7 years and there's no hope of fixing them. I replace the engine, then address the tires.

[liverpoolkev]

 

One play. Brilliant.

still waiting ..... Thought you were going to Zay who they they traded two picks to move up for or maybe Dawkins who they traded two picks to get in front of Carolina ....... nice

[Gugny]

still waiting ..... Thought you were going to Zay who they they traded two picks to move up for or maybe Dawkins who they traded two picks to get in front of Carolina ....... nice

 

He's been the GM for one draft.

 

Give it 2-3 years; not 2-3 months.

 

This team was not supposed to be good this season.

[Wayne Arnold]

That's part of what makes a great defense, great. Or perhaps you don't want to see it continue.

 

Yes that must be it. I want to see them fail.

 

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2014/10/how-random-are-turnovers/

 

So after a few hundred words of statistics, we arrive at a whopping conclusion that just over half of seasonal turnover differential is due to luck.

That’s huge, especially when you consider that (from earlier) seasonal turnover differential explains over 40% of seasonal winning percentage.

At first glance, this does seem very high to me but evidence for this magnitude is the extraordinary year-to-year variability in turnover differential, which you would expect if luck was a mega factor as my analysis suggests. While starting quarterbacks absolutely play a role in turnover differential (Tom Brady throws fewer picks than Chad Henne) and tend to be fairly constant from year-to-year, nevertheless the correlation between turnover differential last year and this year is only 0.086 which is not significant at the 5% level.

Ultimately in a 16-game season, there’s just a whole lot of luck involved with winning football games and for all that commentators will talk about defensive schemes forcing turnovers this season, it’s just as important to be lucky as to be good.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Wayne Arnold

[nedboy7]

Is there any sanity left on this poor planet?

[liverpoolkev]

 

He's been the GM for one draft.

 

Give it 2-3 years; not 2-3 months.

 

This team was not supposed to be good this season.

did they give Chip Kelly 3 yrs while he destroyed the eagles ,Thanks for Shady by the way, . I seen the play before thank goodness for Leslie Frasiar and his defense

[oldmanfan]

Really I'm sure AJ Green would agree..... Keep talking

White will be defensive rookie of the year. A pass Orr two against a great WR happens. Just proves your football ignorance

[benderbender]

Is there really any proof that intentional losing has ever helped any team? It's been pretty well documented that having the #1 overall pick doesn't guarantee a better player than say the #8 guy in any given draft. And that's not even getting into the discussion of whether or not the team as a whole actually gets better. The NFL is a totally different animal than the NBA or even the NHL.

The NFL IS a totally different animal because theres no draft lottery and tanking is guaranteed to get you a higher draft pick. But youre right in that a higher pick doesnt necessarily guarantee you a better pick. I.e. Steeler seem to draft #1 receivers and backs at the bottom of the picks every year

[Game Manager]

The engine's issues are beyond repair. It's had the same issues for 7 years and there's no hope of fixing them. I replace the engine, then address the tires.

I wouldn't drive this car on the interstate. Farm use only.

[Fan in San Diego]

FAKE WINS.

 

DISHONEST LEAGUE. SAD.

Good Trump reference!

[thunderingsquid]

The correct term is Stealth Tank coined by Jeremy White.

[mead107]

They put on a good front saying they are "trying to wn now AND trying to win for the future" but is that REALLY accurate? I don't think it is...

 

Look at what has happened in the week+ since Matthews and Clay have gone down for significant lengths of time basically turning our "average" offense with them into a disaster without them. 5 straight games with under 300 yards of total offense...we might set an NFL modern day record for that as I don't see how we get above that anytime soon without those players and people stacking the box.

 

And yet McBeane has been silent on the waiver wire/FA/trade front. This team has the chance to make the playoffs THIS YEAR but yet they will do nothing to bolster our chances. And I find that to be maddening. It's one thing if the team wasn't that good and you just let things go...it's another thing entirely when you have wins over 2 top 5 teams in the league and the defense is good enough if the offense can just literally DO ANYTHING productive. I think he owes it to those guys busting their @sses on the field AND to the fanbase who is tired of this bullcrap over the last 17 years to actually DO SOMETHING to try and help this team now.

 

I am not talking about trading a high pick for a guy necessarily, but if there is the opportunity to get a guy AND he fits in the budget/long term plans of the team WHY NOT do it? You don't HAVE TO only get players through the draft...there is the opportunity to make moves that can help the team both now and in the future that don't involve simply drafting well.

 

It's just so frustrating to see McBeane "fiddling" while the offense burns around us and nothing is done to try and fix it...another wasted season when the team was good enough to make the playoffs with a little help...so frustrating...I know the plan is to start in earnest next year with all the draft capital and likely new QB of the future, but still...

 

They aren't coming out and saying it, but you can hear it when McDermott talks about the "silver lining" being that a bunch of rookies got in there...they know they are hoping to keep losing players and be forced to play untested rookies/backups and then they have the excuse "well, we had a lot of injuries and don't have the depth yet to overcome them", but if they would just go find the depth, we COULD overcome them...but they don't want them to...kind of like in Major Leagues when the owner was secretly rooting for the team to lose so he could move them...the McBrothers are secretly hoping for the injury bug to keep hitting so they can keep slipping further and further down the standings while having nothing come back on them that we were actively "tanking" while having to play a bunch of untested depth players on the roster.

best bull crap thread of the bye week

[JerseyBills]

No, I don't believe so. I think they are trying to win with what they have today but also trying to build a system for the future. I would like to see more adjustments to the system to fit the personnel, but apparently they have faith that the system is most important. I am encouraged that they are moving away from the zone blocking scheme and hope they continue to make adjustments like this as needed.

Isn't every team trying to win and build for the future?