BillsFan4 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 There is obviously a lot of different things that went into this trade, but I think Sammy's attitude definitely played some part in it. After hearing Sammy say this, McDermott's comments very shortly after the trade come to mind - "we ar trying to build a team, not collect star players". McDermott & Beane are very big on those total team first guys and it's really shown with the acquisitions and draft picks they made. If that's something they feel is very important, then they have to show it with actions, not just words (IMO anyway). I think It sends a message through the locker room when management gives a player a big contract. It says "these are the types of guys we are going to pay". When you have brand new coaches and management who are in the very beginning stages of trying to change a culture that's been broken for well over a decade, I think it's even more important to send clear messages. If they are preaching that they want everyone to have a team first mentality (etc) and then they choose to pay a guy huge money who has acted somewhat the opposite of that ("me first"), how serious is the team really going to take that message? If it were me I'd say "well it's just hollow words. They're preaching one thing and doing another". I'm also a strong believer that its best when your highest paid players are also good team leaders, and ideally they are the ones carrying the coaches message, too. Because, either way, they are probably going to be one of the guys looked at to set the tone of the team. We seen it happen here with Mario Williams. I think it's important that a team is very careful with who they choose to give big money to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaMilBill Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I could care less about Watkins ever since he left. Even when he was with the Bills, I got the sense that s majority of Bills fans didn't admire him cause he never played with a passion and fire like Kyle Williams or Fred Jackson plays with. Same reason why people don't care much for Marcell. Just worried about padding their stats for a big pay day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) Okay cupcake. Yea. Your right. Stupid comment is probably a better description. There is obviously a lot of different things that went into this trade, but I think Sammy's attitude definitely played some part in it. After hearing Sammy say this, McDermott's comments very shortly after the trade come to mind - "we ar trying to build a team, not collect star players". McDermott & Beane are very big on those total team first guys and it's really shown with the acquisitions and draft picks they made. If that's something they feel is very important, then they have to show it with actions, not just words (IMO anyway). I think It sends a message through the locker room when management gives a player a big contract. It says "these are the types of guys we are going to pay". When you have brand new coaches and management who are in the very beginning stages of trying to change a culture that's been broken for well over a decade, I think it's even more important to send clear messages. If they are preaching that they want everyone to have a team first mentality (etc) and then they choose to pay a guy huge money who has acted somewhat the opposite of that ("me first"), how serious is the team really going to take that message? If it were me I'd say "well it's just hollow words. They're preaching one thing and doing another". I'm also a strong believer that its best when your highest paid players are also good team leaders, and ideally they are the ones carrying the coaches message, too. Because, either way, they are probably going to be one of the guys looked at to set the tone of the team. We seen it happen here with Mario Williams. I think it's important that a team is very careful with who they choose to give big money to. Belichick usually points out how selfless his players are after they win a superbowl. Its an important ingredient in building a winner. Tre White commented about the Bills being the most selfless team hes ever played on. Not coincidentally we are 3-1. Guess again cupcake. Your insults are even dumber than your comments. Edited October 7, 2017 by Billsmovinup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Marshawn Lynch was a real POS too........then the Bills traded him at age 24. As I've said MANY times over MANY years here.........when you draft a 20 year old kid onto a losing culture/rudderless ship and expect him to be a star player.......you are asking to fail. I've rarely seen such consensus on TSW that a player was a complete POS and was guaranteed to fail elsewhere as when Marshawn Lynch was traded........obviously a lot of idiots on TSW. They had weathered the worst of the problems with Lynch.......just as they had with Watkins.........at that age, things change fast. But AT LEAST they had Jackson when they dealt Lynch......and had addressed the position with a potential star talent in CJ Spiller........there was NOTHING behind Watkins and "Drop Zone" Jones was low ceiling/high floor prospect who has shown a much lower floor than imagined. The Matthews trade just yielded them a better posession WR than Holmes..........the Watkins trade only made ANY sense if the team was tanking and the Rams were going to be bad. So far the trade has cost the Bills one game and it's going to take a HERCULEAN effort from Tyrod Taylor to prevent a second loss Sunday..........in a game that they would probably be favored in if they had any kind of reliable WR talent. I do not disagree that their player development program is non-existent and they shouldve found a way to manage the Sammy situation. No question about it they are worse off as a result of the trade, and that they need to be able to manage personalities like this if they want to actually have talent and win games. But Im also not as surprised now that they dealt him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Guess again cupcake. I did and correctly. I know that you havent watched a live jk game with ar in it. No need to name call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Its funny that so many are quick to call him a POS but dont acknowledge that it was the distunctional Ryan bros locker room that created the situation in the first place. The Bills as an oragnization created this problem. I get why the trade was done, the relationship between Watkins and the Bills was not good, but I still dont agree with it from a talent and player development perspective. Think about this, if 3 years ago the Pegulas did a better job with the coaching search, is Watkins still here? Is his attitude and development different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Marshawn Lynch was a real POS too........then the Bills traded him at age 24. As I've said MANY times over MANY years here.........when you draft a 20 year old kid onto a losing culture/rudderless ship and expect him to be a star player.......you are asking to fail. I've rarely seen such consensus on TSW that a player was a complete POS and was guaranteed to fail elsewhere as when Marshawn Lynch was traded........obviously a lot of idiots on TSW. They had weathered the worst of the problems with Lynch.......just as they had with Watkins.........at that age, things change fast. But AT LEAST they had Jackson when they dealt Lynch......and had addressed the position with a potential star talent in CJ Spiller........there was NOTHING behind Watkins and "Drop Zone" Jones was low ceiling/high floor prospect who has shown a much lower floor than imagined. The Matthews trade just yielded them a better posession WR than Holmes..........the Watkins trade only made ANY sense if the team was tanking and the Rams were going to be bad. So far the trade has cost the Bills one game and it's going to take a HERCULEAN effort from Tyrod Taylor to prevent a second loss Sunday..........in a game that they would probably be favored in if they had any kind of reliable WR talent. A Vegas insider RJ Bell explained in detail how lines move due to injuiries and inactive players when Gronk was listed as out on Thursday. He said only about 32 players around the league other than QB's impact the line. Gronk moved it a "smidge" I think was his words, a half a point. I agree that the WR position has been mismanaged but i don't have much faith in Watkins. I wrote this to let yah know, ain't no way in hell Sammy Watkins moves a line, nevermind 3 points. RJ bell is on twitter if you or anyone would like to get a solid confirmation on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Gurley is probably the best all around RB in football right now. Yes, I would take the Rams offensive weapons over the Bills in a moment if they could trade players. You can't just plug a WR in with a very inexperienced QB with a partial trading camp and no OTAs and expect instant results. It's very relevant. If the Rams lacked other good players ,he would be looked to more frequently. If you think the Bills and Rams offenses are comparable you might want to actually watch the Rams games. The Rams have a potent offense. The Bills Offense sans Watkins is just very boring. Or, if Sammy was the stud he and others think he is, he'd be open so much that Goff would naturally be throwing it to him more that the other WRs. Don't get me wrong, I did not like the Sammy trade and wish he was still in the roster. But it may be saying something that a rookie like Cupp seems to be getting at least as many looks, if not more, than Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I did and correctly. I know that you havent watched a live jk game with ar in it. No need to name call. Wrong again cupcake. Yea. Your right. Stupid comment is probably a better description. Belichick usually points out how selfless his players are after they win a superbowl. Its an important ingredient in building a winner. Tre White commented about the Bills being the most selfless team hes ever played on. Not coincidentally we are 3-1. Your insults are even dumber than your comments. It's not an insult. It means your points are soft and sweet, but contain little substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 This is probably what Hogan was talking about when he signed with NE. Oh well, the trade makes more sense now. I'm curious to see what happens if they start losing and he doesn't see more targets. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Bills trade Sam-me, pick up a corner who's playing lights out and some draft collateral, start the season 3-1.... in fine with this story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 He is averaging 52 yards a game and healthy. Considering we got a corner who is playing well and a 2 round pick, I think the Bills came pout ahead.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 i guess sammy is the bad guy for pointing out the obvious that the OC & HC should target their best player more than 5 times a game. it would be like this years team where if shady averaged 10 touches a game and then said he should be getting 20.....(duh) I guess your either vanilla or a distraction = media digging for stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Its funny that so many are quick to call him a POS but dont acknowledge that it was the distunctional Ryan bros locker room that created the situation in the first place. The Bills as an oragnization created this problem. I get why the trade was done, the relationship between Watkins and the Bills was not good, but I still dont agree with it from a talent and player development perspective. Think about this, if 3 years ago the Pegulas did a better job with the coaching search, is Watkins still here? Is his attitude and development different? This is where I come out. Not just the former coach but the former GM as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 WRs are a selfish bunch Period I'm far more interested in what they bring to the passing game, and what Sammy brought is sorely missed That said, the "other" off-field issue is a much more legitimate concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 WRs are a selfish bunch Period I'm far more interested in what they bring to the passing game, and what Sammy brought is sorely missed That said, the "other" off-field issue is a much more legitimate concern What off the field issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 What off the field issue? Injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Its funny that so many are quick to call him a POS but dont acknowledge that it was the distunctional Ryan bros locker room that created the situation in the first place. The Bills as an oragnization created this problem. I get why the trade was done, the relationship between Watkins and the Bills was not good, but I still dont agree with it from a talent and player development perspective. Think about this, if 3 years ago the Pegulas did a better job with the coaching search, is Watkins still here? Is his attitude and development different? Good points. Still, we don't know what was tried in the way of developing Watkins. It may be that expectations were set out and not met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Pimpin' Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Andre Reed wanted the ball on every play and was in Jim Kelly's ear all of the time. He was often a moody PITA. He'd have to go too I'm guessing. I'm not sure you should be comparing Sammy Watkins to Andre Reed, the hall of famer. But if you do you also have to realize that this team and head coach is in its infantile stages that can't handle the diva personality of a Watkins or a Gilmore for that matter. It is becoming more and more evident that the player was traded for locker room behavior and not for talent. Maybe the culture and locker room will be strong enough next year or the year after that to sign a player with Sammy's talents and not so great personality traits that many elite players come with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 admitting it is far from altering it agree. All counts. I still bet it is a matter of time before more comes out. Yo, if you're the one with the rest of the inside gouge can you share? I'm not sure you should be comparing Sammy Watkins to Andre Reed, the hall of famer. But if you do you also have to realize that this team and head coach is in its infantile stages that can't handle the diva personality of a Watkins or a Gilmore for that matter. It is becoming more and more evident that the player was traded for locker room behavior and not for talent. Maybe the culture and locker room will be strong enough next year or the year after that to sign a player with Sammy's talents and not so great personality traits that many elite players come with. It may be worth remembering that the Bills great talent won them a lot of football games, but never the championship, in 4 tries. Twice, they lost to teams with significantly lesser talent at "skill" positions. May bes don't fly in December (or January) but it is just possible that a bit more "team first" attitude would have gotten them over the top, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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