Go on record regarding the trades

[dave mcbride]

And Carolina won with Cam Newton, Josh Norman, Steve Smith, etc.

... And neither McDemott nor Beane drafted them. Christ, McDermott was in Philly when Newton was drafted. Smith was drafted ages ago anyway, and long before either Beane or McDermott were there. Plus they let Norman and Smith go while they were still good!

Edited August 12, 2017 by dave mcbride

[manbeast]

I've continued to support the team through 17 tough years. I believe we were closer than most people realized. Now forget it, 2-14 here we come. I realized earlier this year that Andy reid is a moron and I guess McD is definitely a disciple. I wasted 900 on tickets for the Panthers game. It's made worse by what we got in return. Reminds me of getting robbed in the Jason Peters trade and getting less for Lynch than the Pats got for Marone. I've already gone on the record stating Pegula is RW 2.0. What a bunch of morons. Wake me up when we hire our new GM and Coach. Bring back Whaley who comes out ahead on trades and find some way to fire Pegula. too bad the last one isn't possible. damn Russians and Bush.

Edited August 12, 2017 by manbeast

[Cripple Creek]

With an eye towards building a team rather than a bully I firmly approve. Two moves that will help shape the positive future of the Bills for years to come.

[Big C]

And Carolina won with Cam Newton, Josh Norman, Steve Smith, etc.

 

Valid point, but I don't think Sammy played with half the edge Smith did. And Cam is an up-and-down performer who lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes.

 

I don't believe in character over talent as a principle, but I also think that if Watkins had the production that OBJ or Evans has had, we wouldn't have let him go.

[26CornerBlitz]

With an eye towards building a team rather than a bully I firmly approve. Two moves that will help shape the positive future of the Bills for years to come.

 

Sounds like another OBD BS slogan.

[dave mcbride]

Valid point, but I don't think Sammy played with half the edge Smith did. And Cam is an up-and-down performer who lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes.

 

I don't believe in character over talent as a principle, but I also think that if Watkins had the production that OBJ or Evans has had, we wouldn't have let him go.

I don't think that was dog's point, although I could be wrong.

[BillsInMaine]

Yes!!!

Sick of hearing " if" and " but"

This isn't a playoff contending team and has no SB shot whatsoever.

Draft your young guns together, bring them up together, build a perennial contender.

exactly

[Big C]

... And neither McDemott nor Beane drafted them. Christ, McDermott was in Philly when Newton was drafted. Smith was drafted ages ago anyway, and long before either Beane or McDermott were there. Plus they let Norman and Smith go while they were still good!

 

Not true. Newton was drafted in 2011, McDermott's was hired January 2011.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Valid point, but I don't think Sammy played with half the edge Smith did. And Cam is an up-and-down performer who lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes.

 

I don't believe in character over talent as a principle, but I also think that if Watkins had the production that OBJ or Evans has had, we wouldn't have let him go.

Of course not, but if either of those two were injured and Sammy wasn't, he would have put up their production with worse quarterbacking. And all indications are that he is completely healthy.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Not true. Newton was drafted in 2011, McDermott's was hired January 2011.

 

McDermott was involved in drafting offensive players for the Panthers? Doubt he had anything to do with Newton being there.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Not true. Newton was drafted in 2011, McDermott's was hired January 2011.

McDermott would have had 0.0000% influence on that draft pick though.

[Big C]

I don't think that was dog's point, although I could be wrong.

 

I thought Dog was pointing out that Carolina was best with non-character guys leading the way.

McDermott would have had 0.0000% influence on that draft pick though.

 

Absolutely, just setting the facts straight.

[dave mcbride]

Not true. Newton was drafted in 2011, McDermott's was hired January 2011.

My mistake. Regardless, he surely wasn't involved in that pick at all.

I thought Dog was pointing out that Carolina was best with non-character guys leading the way.

 

Absolutely, just setting the facts straight.

 

But they let those guys go! Letting Norman go was a disastrous move for them.

[manbeast]

Agree. We burned the first bridge by not taking the fifth year. Then we get rid of him for questionable value in return. If they hit home runs in the 2018 Draft I'm sure I'll feel better but right now this sucks. I'm also convinced Sammy will be a Patriot next year.

I hope so and I hope he torches this team every year til this regime is gone.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I thought Dog was pointing out that Carolina was best with non-character guys leading the way.

 

Absolutely, just setting the facts straight.

Yes, that is what I meant. McDermott and Beane came from a team where most of their best and most influential players were not the kind of guys they are insisting on now.

My mistake. Regardless, he surely wasn't involved in that pick at all.

 

But they let those guys go! Letting Norman go was a disastrous move for them.

Yup. More evidence it doesn't make any sense.

[manbeast]

I think the Darby trade was good, especially if they get Matthews to resign.

 

Watkins I think they could have played it a bit differently.

make sure he had a monster year franchise and trade.

[Cripple Creek]

Sounds like another OBD BS slogan.

That's quite a sour opinion.

[John from Riverside]

I normally support bills management.......but I voted no here

 

It is my believe that Sammy Watkins is going to overcome this foot injury and go onto be a elite WR int he league

 

I wish him luck

[Big C]

Yes, that is what I meant. McDermott and Beane came from a team where most of their best and most influential players were not the kind of guys they are insisting on now.

Yup. More evidence it doesn't make any sense.

 

I agree, but I don't think McDermott or Beane had as much sway as Rivera and Gettleman. Hard to know who was responsible for letting Norman and Smith go. $15m for a corner is a lot of money too, though they still offered him a high tender of $13+m for the one year.

[26CornerBlitz]

That's quite a sour opinion.

 

Remember "Bills Run Deep" or the current "It Starts with One". Both are uninspiring to be kind.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I agree, but I don't think McDermott or Beane had as much sway as Rivera and Gettleman. Hard to know who was responsible for letting Norman and Smith go. $15m for a corner is a lot of money too, though they still offered him a high tender of $13+m for the one year.

Sure. I didn't mean they were making the decisions. I meant they were eye witness to the opposite of what they are doing when they are making the decisions. Ironic because they got the promotions because of the team success in Carolina.

[Big C]

Sure. I didn't mean they were making the decisions. I meant they were eye witness to the opposite of what they are doing when they are making the decisions. Ironic because they got the promotions because of the team success in Carolina.

 

Gotcha. I do think Sammy is unproven thus far and isn't the best parallel to Steve Smith, etc. while I think OBJ would be. As in, if we had OBJ and he had similar production in Buffalo as in New York, we wouldn't have traded him.

 

At this point I have to resign myself to watch the season play out. Sammy could ball and make us look dumb, but it's also possible that he doesn't. It's possible we look good this year and we have the draft ammo to make some big plays next year. I think there were too many question marks with Sammy and the rest of this team to put the big money down so they took advantage of an opportunity and there isn't going to be any way to judge it until it all unfolds. We can debate this all month long but it won't mean anything until we see the results.

[Peace Frog]

Sammy, even if he finished the entire season and looked good doing it, was not coming back either by his own choice or by commanding too high a price so it was nice to see us get something for him, unlike the Stephon Gilmore fiasco. The Darby trade was a surprise but I'll trust that Beane & McDermott have a plan and know what they're doing.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Gotcha. I do think Sammy is unproven thus far and isn't the best parallel to Steve Smith, etc. while I think OBJ would be. As in, if we had OBJ and he had similar production in Buffalo as in New York, we wouldn't have traded him.

 

At this point I have to resign myself to watch the season play out. Sammy could ball and make us look dumb, but it's also possible that he doesn't. It's possible we look good this year and we have the draft ammo to make some big plays next year. I think there were too many question marks with Sammy and the rest of this team to put the big money down so they took advantage of an opportunity and there isn't going to be any way to judge it until it all unfolds. We can debate this all month long but it won't mean anything until we see the results.

I really don't understand why anyone would say that Sammy is unproven. He hasn't played one game in his career at 100% health. At 80-85% health he has proven to be unstoppable. He's healthy now.

[LeGOATski]

I'm "on record" as yes.

 

Getting rid of Sammy is disappointing, but QB is more important. Now they have more than enough ammo to land a top QB.

 

It may not work out, but its a better plan. I'm more worried about the CB group than the WR group right now.

[26CornerBlitz]

I'm "on record" as yes.

 

Getting rid of Sammy is disappointing, but QB is more important. Now they have more than enough ammo to land a top QB.

 

It may not work out, but its a better plan. I'm more worried about the CB group than the WR group right now.

 

Already had enough ammo to accomplish the goal of landing a top tier QB. No need to trade out Watkins w/o letting things play out IMO.

[Turk71]

My thoughts are Sammy was leaving after this year anyway and to get a 2nd for him was a score. Regardless of talent level Matthews has been more productive in his first three years and has been on the field consistently. In fact, is one of only five players in NFL history with 65-plus receptions and 800-plus receiving yards in each of their first three seasons, joining a club that includes Randy Moss, Odell Beckham Jr., Mike Evans and A.J. Green. He ran a 4.46, is bigger and is Jerry Rice's cousin(in case he needs any pointers)☺. Darby was unimpressive last year and Gaines is more a scheme fit. Add in the 2nd and 3rd round picks and I think this works out well for the Bills. Not sure what the salary cap ramifications are but if they gain some maybe they can pick up another decent cb. I was already convinced Watkins was gone after this year so I like what they did.

[Mikie2times]

I like the no half measure approach. It's the biggest punch in the gut, but also gets you the largest return.

 

If you had to forecast scenarios, one being Sammy catching 80 passes, 1200 YDS, 8 TD's or one where Sammy produces below 1,000 yards or deals with injury problems, which would you go with? Would we end up keeping him in either scenario? If he blew up he would have left or got the franchise tag. If he didn't,we wouldn't have signed him. Nobody questions his talent but if the Bills did not think he was likely to be retained why wouldn't you go for max value in a year that will most likely be an outside playoff birth at best.

[Marty McFly]

You know my concerns about Tyrod and I know you believe in him more than I do. But this sucks for him. They aren't giving him the best shot to prove himself.

 

They totally screwed Tyrod and anyone else who wanted to see a competitive team this season. We went from really fast at WR to really slow. Everyone who enjoyed those big boom offensive plays last 2 seasons are gonna be subject to disappointment.

 

Yea but Beane isn't "throwing in the towel" for the season. Don't forget he just signed Anquain Boldin!

He actually said that.

Barf. That comment really made Dennison turn heel in my book. We have 3 #2/#3 WRs. All best suited for the slot and one that is a part time player at 37 yrs old. Da !@#$!

[QCity]

I like the no half measure approach. It's the biggest punch in the gut, but also gets you the largest return.

 

If you had to forecast scenarios, one being Sammy catching 80 passes, 1200 YDS, 8 TD's or one where Sammy produces below 1,000 yards or deals with injury problems, which would you go with? Would we end up keeping him in either scenario? If he blew up he would have left or got the franchise tag. If he didn't,we wouldn't have signed him. Nobody questions his talent but if the Bills did not think he was likely to be retained why wouldn't you go for max value in a year that will most likely be an outside playoff birth at best.

 

We're a run-first team with Tyrod at QB. He was going to play ~13 games and put up ~900yds which is the same thing he did for the last 3 years. But wishful thinkers will tell you this would have been his breakout year of 1500yds and a franchise tag, hence all the whining.

[y2zipper]

Looking at the receivers, Jordan Matthews and Sammy Watkins have 3 years of comparable production. This is mostly because of Sammy's durability concerns. I'm not telling you Matthews is a better player, but I will say that Matthews has consistently shown us 70-80 catches and 800 yards are so. Sammy has more upside than that, minus whatever justifiable durability concerns anybody has. I'd say a second round pick, especially from a team like the Rams, is absurdly good value and I would much rather gamble on the high pick than gamble on Watkins' health, especially at a position that has exactly zero impact on a team's win total. Buffalo probably wins seven to nine games with Watkins on the team, and probably wins seven to nine games without him on the team. From that standpoint, I think it's a good deal because the second round pick allows Buffalo to bring in another talent without much productivity cost.

 

The Darby one, I'm not really sure. Buffalo brings back a guy who can start and takes another early-ish pick from a team that isn't very good.

 

At the end, I think Buffalo is probably as good after the trade as they were before it. Now they have 6 picks in the first three rounds and can get another compensatory 3 if they move certain pieces around. This means they can get much younger in a hurry or move up to get a QB while taking a shot at the wild card this year. It's a sound philosophy IMO.

[QCity]

Looking at the receivers, Jordan Matthews and Sammy Watkins have 3 years of comparable production. This is mostly because of Sammy's durability concerns. I'm not telling you Matthews is a better player, but I will say that Matthews has consistently shown us 70-80 catches and 800 yards are so. Sammy has more upside than that, minus whatever justifiable durability concerns anybody has. I'd say a second round pick, especially from a team like the Rams, is absurdly good value and I would much rather gamble on the high pick than gamble on Watkins' health, especially at a position that has exactly zero impact on a team's win total. Buffalo probably wins seven to nine games with Watkins on the team, and probably wins seven to nine games without him on the team. From that standpoint, I think it's a good deal because the second round pick allows Buffalo to bring in another talent without much productivity cost.

 

The Darby one, I'm not really sure. Buffalo brings back a guy who can start and takes another early-ish pick from a team that isn't very good.

 

At the end, I think Buffalo is probably as good after the trade as they were before it. Now they have 6 picks in the first three rounds and can get another compensatory 3 if they move certain pieces around. This means they can get much younger in a hurry or move up to get a QB while taking a shot at the wild card this year. It's a sound philosophy IMO.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. I agree, the compensation for Watkins was a bit more than I thought we could get. We are setting the table for a franchise-changing draft next year. The one caveat is that I think Wade Phillips is the perfect fit for the Rams D, and they wind up winning 8.

Edited August 12, 2017 by QCity

[ajmac]

My thoughts are Sammy was leaving after this year anyway and to get a 2nd for him was a score. Regardless of talent level Matthews has been more productive in his first three years and has been on the field consistently. In fact, is one of only five players in NFL history with 65-plus receptions and 800-plus receiving yards in each of their first three seasons, joining a club that includes Randy Moss, Odell Beckham Jr., Mike Evans and A.J. Green. He ran a 4.46, is bigger and is Jerry Rice's cousin(in case he needs any pointers)☺. Darby was unimpressive last year and Gaines is more a scheme fit. Add in the 2nd and 3rd round picks and I think this works out well for the Bills. Not sure what the salary cap ramifications are but if they gain some maybe they can pick up another decent cb. I was already convinced Watkins was gone after this year so I like what they did.

I agree with you Turk...I see this as an obvious conclusion and I am not sure why all these fans are complaining. I loved me some Sammy, but he was probably leaving anyway.

Also agree that Darby trade was a little more complex ING, but I also can see that the scheme fit versus other factors and the extra pick made this totally doable as well. Now time will tell, but I believe it was a solid set of moves to make.

[billsfan714]

Never liked the trading up for Watkins or Ragland or most of the previous trade-ups. I never saw the physicality in Watkins of an elite receiver. The bubble screens in college never materialized in the NFL. We were not going to invest what it would take to re-sign him. I mean my god if Robert Woods got 8 mil a year, what would Watkins get? On a side note, what will the Rams have in Austin, Woods and Watkins in terms of payroll, the trade from their take only makes sense if they re-sign Watkins. So they will have probably 30 plus million invested in 3 receivers.

 

If I am true to my philosophy of acquiring picks, I am also not committed to trading the farm for one QB. The Robert Griffin stench will always linger in the air. I was 21 when the 83 draft class came out. Miiami didn't do squat and Marino fell in their lap. What could make the 18 draft really special if they get their QB of the future and still have these other accumulated picks to add solid players. I fully agree with any poster that is favor of any cuts that net us another 3rd.

 

My bottom line is Beane needs to stay cool and hopefully let the draft come to him. A consistent in the playoff drought is bad moves up....JP, McCargo, Ragland, Watkins----in a deep WR class. I always thought one the thing Whaley forgot from his Steelers days is they they dont make a lot of dramatic moves up early in the draft. Now I dont know if Beane is the savior,,,,,but I was certain in short order to know Whaley was in over his head.

 

Time will tell.........

Edited August 12, 2017 by billsfan714

[Bill_with_it]

We have no speed for a qb who is best at throwing deep. It is a group of 2 and 3 type WRs.

Mathews ran a 4.46 and Watkins ran a 4.43. Dont just dont.

[8-8 Forever?]

Pretty gutsy rebuild move. the draft is how this franchise can rebuild -- no top FA is coming to the Bills;

 

good for Sammy and Ron, just like Gilly, Hogan, Peters and all the others, who now go to major league teams or to major $$ markets where they can build their brands, careers and lives. they say goodbye to the latest rebuild which would have wasted the best years of their careers and perhaps wrecked their prospects for their second contracts, which are their best shot to make real $$...

 

can't tell but could be bad for Shady, Kyle, and so many others who may join Moulds and many others who largely wasted the best years careers as Ralph and now Pegs stumble forward... hopefully the McBeanes get it right this time for the long term,, we shall see.

 

they will be very scheme- dependent this year, lets hope the coaching staff pulls all the right strings on game days -- they might be ok; the guys they got in return can play at an NFL level .....

 

we shall see

Edited August 12, 2017 by jmcraig44

[Wayne Cubed]

@adamschefter

Rams GM Les Snead said LA is interested in signing WR Sammy Watkins to a long-term contract, though the two sides are yet to discuss a deal.

 

Looks like they see him as more then a rental.

[KGun12TD]

I'll take trying to get a franchise QB any day over and often injured underachieving WR. ANY DAY!!! Jordan Mathews has had a better career so far compared to Watkins.

 

This was an excellent sequence of moves by the Bills brass.

[eball]

Looking at the receivers, Jordan Matthews and Sammy Watkins have 3 years of comparable production. This is mostly because of Sammy's durability concerns. I'm not telling you Matthews is a better player, but I will say that Matthews has consistently shown us 70-80 catches and 800 yards are so. Sammy has more upside than that, minus whatever justifiable durability concerns anybody has. I'd say a second round pick, especially from a team like the Rams, is absurdly good value and I would much rather gamble on the high pick than gamble on Watkins' health, especially at a position that has exactly zero impact on a team's win total. Buffalo probably wins seven to nine games with Watkins on the team, and probably wins seven to nine games without him on the team. From that standpoint, I think it's a good deal because the second round pick allows Buffalo to bring in another talent without much productivity cost.

 

The Darby one, I'm not really sure. Buffalo brings back a guy who can start and takes another early-ish pick from a team that isn't very good.

 

At the end, I think Buffalo is probably as good after the trade as they were before it. Now they have 6 picks in the first three rounds and can get another compensatory 3 if they move certain pieces around. This means they can get much younger in a hurry or move up to get a QB while taking a shot at the wild card this year. It's a sound philosophy IMO.

 

Very good post. I think the issue for most -- at least it is for me -- is that we're all in love with the idea of what Sammy could become. Unfortunately we haven't seen that ideal realized in three years, and this move got some assets back along with a very good player. I don't even really care about what was in effect a Darby-for-Gaines swap, except that netted the Bills another 3rd.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that you can't fault Beane for not wanting to rely on hope with respect to Sammy, and for instead making moves that give the team great flexibility moving forward to get the QB they desperately need.

[Maury Ballstein]

We're a run-first team with Tyrod at QB. He was going to play ~13 games and put up ~900yds which is the same thing he did for the last 3 years. But wishful thinkers will tell you this would have been his breakout year of 1500yds and a franchise tag, hence all the whining.

Cool stories bro

I'll take trying to get a franchise QB any day over and often injured underachieving WR. ANY DAY!!! Jordan Mathews has had a better career so far compared to Watkins.

This was an excellent sequence of moves by the Bills brass.

Pick 38 ish is where we find our own Brandon Weeden ?