BringBackOrton Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 So we brought back three of the guys we fired? Exhibit A why Kirby and NoSaint were right, per usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Exhibit A why Kirby and NoSaint were right, per usual. I am not saying that they were even wrong.....but what exactly are you trying to say here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Exhibit A why Kirby and NoSaint were right, per usual. Who's going to pay for my sore hands after all this wringing!?! For real though, glad the plan is coming together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 So we brought back three of the guys we fired? Glad they got guys they wanted. Hopefully the friend that went to Nashville, for instance, wasn't also wanted. Again, not a HUGE issue but seemed pretty obvious the most effective process was not what we used. (I have no opinion on these guys, just that I prefer beane choosing scouts over pegula or even McD... and there was no downside to just waiting for him to do that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I am not saying that they were even wrong.....but what exactly are you trying to say here? That they were right. I thought that obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 They are making moves but so far no scouts from Carolina. It is critical that the Bills add some scouts that McD and the Beane have worked with before- that they know and can trust their judgement and whose recommendations have been solid first hand information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 They are making moves but so far no scouts from Carolina. It is critical that the Bills add some scouts that McD and the Beane have worked with before- that they know and can trust their judgement and whose recommendations have been solid first hand information. Rex? Is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Glad they got guys they wanted. Hopefully the friend that went to Nashville, for instance, wasn't also wanted. Again, not a HUGE issue but seemed pretty obvious the most effective process was not what we used. (I have no opinion on these guys, just that I prefer beane choosing scouts over pegula or even McD... and there was no downside to just waiting for him to do that) I'm just going to second the thoughts of my fellow New Orleanian. The Bills seem to be doing great. I wasn't concerned about specific people more about the process. It wasn't a huge deal but it wasn't done right either. I don't see it hurting them because the staff they've built so far is impressive. Hopefully it keeps moving forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I'm just going to second the thoughts of my fellow New Orleanian. The Bills seem to be doing great. I wasn't concerned about specific people more about the process. It wasn't a huge deal but it wasn't done right either. I don't see it hurting them because the staff they've built so far is impressive. Hopefully it keeps moving forward... Nothing wrong with any of those previous thoughts. I was afraid we might lose some talent we might benefit by keeping. It appears we got at least most of what we really wanted. It also helps to give it a fresh new feel, even if it's some of the best old guys coming back. The end result is what counts, and I feel very good about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) @dan_hatman I keep hearing positivity about the 'All-Star teams' being assembled in the #Colts #49ers and #Bills front offices I believe the way the #Bills staff is coming together may lead more owners to explore bigger May staffing changes. Many went into scouting as it was 'more stable' than coaching, but that is quickly proving to no longer be the case. These days, with the access to film. I keep sensing a shift from evaluators towards data collectors. http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2017/05/01/dan-hatmans-2017-nfl-scout-movement-tracker/ Edited May 21, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 They are making moves but so far no scouts from Carolina. It is critical that the Bills add some scouts that McD and the Beane have worked with before- that they know and can trust their judgement and whose recommendations have been solid first hand information. And if we do sign some scouts that McD and Beane have worked with you'll find something else to cry about. The hires they made are being applauded around the league. They are hiring trusted NFL minds. They interviewed them and expressed what they desire then hired them. They trust their judgement or they wouldn't have been hired. This thread should be closed. There's nothing to talk about here. Beane is doing a fine job of filling the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) @dan_hatman I keep hearing positivity about the 'All-Star teams' being assembled in the #Colts #49ers and #Bills front offices I believe the way the #Bills staff is coming together may lead more owners to explore bigger May staffing changes. Many went into scouting as it was 'more stable' than coaching, but that is quickly proving to no longer be the case. These days, with the access to film. I keep sensing a shift from evaluators towards data collectors. http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2017/05/01/dan-hatmans-2017-nfl-scout-movement-tracker/ Thanks for the link- it's good that scouting is coming under more scrutiny because it is the information that builds the foundation of a franchise. It's almost as if scouts should be rated with their own set of statistics and metrics- if it isn't already. I don't disagree that it might be trending towards data collecting vs. gut level evaluation but where did you get that info? And if we do sign some scouts that McD and Beane have worked with you'll find something else to cry about. The hires they made are being applauded around the league. They are hiring trusted NFL minds. They interviewed them and expressed what they desire then hired them. They trust their judgement or they wouldn't have been hired. This thread should be closed. There's nothing to talk about here. Beane is doing a fine job of filling the holes. There isn't any "crying" going on here, just constructive observations. I want the team to turn the corner and become a season to season contender as quickly as possible. If the Bills management does not have anyone in the scouting department that they have worked with in the past, that they can trust unconditionally, then there will be a learning curve between management and new scouts. Learning curves take time to overcome as the relationships build. It sets the team back a little bit. Acquiring some scouts that they have worked with in the past is an important step IMHO. Edited May 21, 2017 by jethro_tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Thanks for the link- it's good that scouting is coming under more scrutiny because it is the information that builds the foundation of a franchise. It's almost as if scouts should be rated with their own set of statistics and metrics- if it isn't already. I don't disagree that it might be trending towards data collecting vs. gut level evaluation but where did you get that info? There isn't any "crying" going on here, just constructive observations. I want the team to turn the corner and become a season to season contender as quickly as possible. If the Bills management does not have anyone in the scouting department that they have worked with in the past, that they can trust unconditionally, then there will be a learning curve between management and new scouts. Learning curves take time to overcome as the relationships build. It sets the team back a little bit. Acquiring some scouts that they have worked with in the past is an important step IMHO. Beane worked with Joe Schoen for 6 years and Marvin Allen for 7 years in Carolina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Beane worked with Joe Schoen for 6 years and Marvin Allen for 7 years in Carolina great, thanks for the info. thread closed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 That they were right. I thought that obvious. OK but Kirby was raising serious concerns over losing scouts.....that we would have difficulty replacing with quality personnel because they were under contract. This does not appear to be the case. Now we dont know what the results of this will be....but so far how were they right....they obviously had a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) OK but Kirby was raising serious concerns over losing scouts.....that we would have difficulty replacing with quality personnel because they were under contract. This does not appear to be the case. Now we dont know what the results of this will be....but so far how were they right....they obviously had a plan. I was referring to their other point. Like they both said, you can arrive at a good result with a poor process. Why terminate contracts and risk losing guys before your new GM could decide he wants them back? It was a risk that had no reward. Whether or not it worked out was immaterial. Edited May 21, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 OK but Kirby was raising serious concerns over losing scouts.....that we would have difficulty replacing with quality personnel because they were under contract. This does not appear to be the case. Now we dont know what the results of this will be....but so far how were they right....they obviously had a plan. Welcome to the new world where being wrong is somehow being right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I'm just going to second the thoughts of my fellow New Orleanian. The Bills seem to be doing great. I wasn't concerned about specific people more about the process. It wasn't a huge deal but it wasn't done right either. I don't see it hurting them because the staff they've built so far is impressive. Hopefully it keeps moving forward... Kirby, Thanks! I was waiting for you to chime in on the stuff happening over the last week. I was referring to their other point. Like they both said, you can arrive at a good result with a poor process. Why terminate contracts and risk losing guys before your new GM could decide he wants them back? It was a risk that had no reward. Whether or not it worked out was immaterial. Thank you for the clarification It obviously could have gone very badly. I remember thinking to myself last weekend "they would not do this unless they had a plan" That sounds too much like the past front offices would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 ....cleaning house prior to Beane took care of the dirty work for him......at least he's not the "new sheriff/bad guy" riding into town.....and he was free to re-hire any of the 17 let go which I believe he has done with 3 so far...so what's the beef?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 ....cleaning house prior to Beane took care of the dirty work for him......at least he's not the "new sheriff/bad guy" riding into town.....and he was free to re-hire any of the 17 let go which I believe he has done with 3 so far...so what's the beef?.....The point was that by exposing those guys he may have lost the ones that he wanted. We will never know if that's the case. As an example, Tom Roth (one of their most respected scouts) went to the Titans. Maybe they didn't want him and maybe they did? I buy the "not being a bad guy" as a reason to a certain extent but would have taken the conservative route. I would have interviewed everyone, kept the good and released the bad. They are doing a great job building the staff so I'm definitely not concerned with the results. That was never the issue though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) I gotta admit, I was never as panicked as the OP but I did think the firing of the entire personnel department was rash. But I've been impressed how quickly Beane put his team together. And more impressed at the credentials these new guys bring. As Kirby points out, in the process we may have lost a couple good ones like Tom Roth. But - on paper - this new scouting department seems to have the qualifications to get the job done. I'll probably never get this, but I'd love an insider's take on how Beane runs the scouting staff differently than Whaley. Does he value different things in a player? Does he organize the scout tasks differently? Etc. Just like coordinators have different schemes, GMs have different ways of attacking their area of responsibility. Edited May 21, 2017 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I think we can put to rest any concerns about scouts. They do very little this time of year so we didn't miss out on anything. 17 year drought, scouts had some responsibility for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Ok OP, that took less than 2 weeks. I hope you can now sleep better at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PABillsfan23 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 This should be pinned for the purpose of fans to see what it's like to jump off the rocker early.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 This should be pinned for the purpose of fans to see what it's like to jump off the rocker early.. This was an interesting thread all around. Not so much due to the bills news but many directions folks went Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 So this is no longer a thing then. Pitchforks down guys. The new sherriff in town seems to know what he's doing.All hail Beane! All hail Beane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Heck, they could find 17 experts on this board easily. I'll do it pro bono. Do whatever you have to in order to land Sam Darnold. That one was free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Heck, they could find 17 experts on this board easily. I'm sure we could find 117 'experts' on this board who think they can scout better than actual scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 13 days to bury a Chicken Little thread. Nice work Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 13 days to bury a Chicken Little thread. Nice work Bills! This was one of the better threads in weeks. Christ, what a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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