GG Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, TPS said: It's not compelling for people who think the government must borrow before it can spend. Governments that control and issue their own currency stimulate greater wealth creation by the private sector when they spend more than they tax in any given year (aka deficit spending). You keep missing the main point. Private enterprise will function no matter what the central planners command, no matter what the national currency dictates. Why do you think the black markets are more pervasive in socialist/closed economies? You just scoffed off the notion that government spending doesn't have the same effect on wealth creation as the government stepping out of the way, but you keep coming back to it as if it's interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, GG said: You keep missing the main point. Private enterprise will function no matter what the central planners command, no matter what the national currency dictates. Why do you think the black markets are more pervasive in socialist/closed economies? You just scoffed off the notion that government spending doesn't have the same effect on wealth creation as the government stepping out of the way, but you keep coming back to it as if it's interchangeable. Oh, I recognize tax cuts and spending increases have different impacts--all corps will be affected by a change in the tax rate, but not all will be affected by spending increases. My point, all along, has been that deficits in general stimulate private sector wealth creation, a point you finally agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 NPR U.K. Economy Shrinks, Taking A Step Toward Recession For First ... The U.K. economy contracted by 0.2% in the most recent quarter, feeding fears of a recession as the country approaches a deadline to exit from ... 2 weeks ago global trade is slowing. Tariff wars have consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 A ‘recession dashboard’ from Credit Suisse indicates the economy is nowhere near a recession. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 U.S. deficit to expand by about $800 billion more than previously expected over 10 years, CBO says A two-year budget deal struck between lawmakers and the White House will help push the nation into levels of debt unseen since the end of World War II, the Congressional Budget Office said. By Jeff Stein 1 hour ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, B-Man said: A ‘recession dashboard’ from Credit Suisse indicates the economy is nowhere near a recession. . What?!? Twitter was celebrating that we were IN a recession last week! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, bbb said: What?!? Twitter was celebrating that we were IN a recession last week! the DOW dropped 800 points in a day out of the 7,000 it's gained since Trump took over a fact with absolutely ZERO CONTEXT or thought put into it. BIGGEST DROP EVER!!!!!! PANIC IN THE STREETS OF LONDON, BIRMINGHAM AND HUMBERSIDE!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, B-Man said: A ‘recession dashboard’ from Credit Suisse indicates the economy is nowhere near a recession. You know that's not going to dissuade the media from trying to manufacture one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 21 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Repealing the ObamaCare tax alone was worth something to people (I say this as part of the first group that was ***** over on ObamaCare). I'd love to know real numbers on how many people are now working one 40 hour work week versus two below 32 hours work weeks when ObamaCare came about. What is better? This is just snap. You should not talk on matters of the economy....your being brainwashed or ignorant or some combination of the both is way too evident..... You do much better in these forums when you do not venture out on your own but rather simply parrot what you think the regulars are going to like.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Koko78 said: You know that's not going to dissuade the media from trying to manufacture one... So, let me ask one question, if the economy was the best ever why would he be thinking about further tax cuts for corporations, payroll tax cuts, bigger freaking deficits, and his key advisers warning about a short and quick recession. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/20/donald-trump-gop-donors-recession-1470360?nname=playbook&nid=0000014f-1646-d88f-a1cf-5f46b7bd0000&nrid=0000015d-ccf3-de22-abdf-eff70b570000&nlid=630318 I just don't understand how all you so called conservatives are fine with the fact that Trump keeps driving the deficit higher while the economy chugs along at the same pace as it was pre Trump( less if you take out increased government spending)..but y'all will not address that point, you will just say "media wants this story" and fail to address the numbers..cause ya know the BLS and the CBO and every other government agency reporting numbers are all part of the fake news too!!!! Edited August 21, 2019 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, TH3 said: You should not talk on matters of the economy....your being brainwashed or ignorant or some combination of the both is way too evident..... You do much better in these forums when you do not venture out on your own but rather simply parrot what you think the regulars are going to like.... Sure thing, toots. I'll take your opinion into consideration.? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, TH3 said: You should not talk on matters of the economy....your being brainwashed or ignorant or some combination of the both is way too evident..... You do much better in these forums when you do not venture out on your own but rather simply parrot what you think the regulars are going to like.... That's rather misogynistic of you. BTW, learn the difference between your and you're. 3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: So, let me ask one question, if the economy was the best ever why would he be thinking about further tax cuts for corporations, payroll tax cuts, bigger freaking deficits, and his key advisers warning about a short and quick recession. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/20/donald-trump-gop-donors-recession-1470360?nname=playbook&nid=0000014f-1646-d88f-a1cf-5f46b7bd0000&nrid=0000015d-ccf3-de22-abdf-eff70b570000&nlid=630318 I just don't understand how all you so called conservatives are fine with the fact that Trump keeps driving the deficit higher while the economy chugs along at the same pace as it was pre Trump( less if you take out increased government spending)..but y'all will not address that point, you will just say "media wants this story" and fail to address the numbers..cause ya know the BLS and the CBO and every other government agency reporting numbers are all part of the fake news too!!!! Think worldwide economy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: So, let me ask one question, if the economy was the best ever why would he be thinking about further tax cuts for corporations, payroll tax cuts, bigger freaking deficits, and his key advisers warning about a short and quick recession. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/20/donald-trump-gop-donors-recession-1470360?nname=playbook&nid=0000014f-1646-d88f-a1cf-5f46b7bd0000&nrid=0000015d-ccf3-de22-abdf-eff70b570000&nlid=630318 I just don't understand how all you so called conservatives are fine with the fact that Trump keeps driving the deficit higher while the economy chugs along at the same pace as it was pre Trump( less if you take out increased government spending)..but y'all will not address that point, you will just say "media wants this story" and fail to address the numbers..cause ya know the BLS and the CBO and every other government agency reporting numbers are all part of the fake news too!!!! Religion can be a dangerous thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: That's rather misogynistic of you. BTW, learn the difference between your and you're. Think worldwide economy. Why is the first post misogynistic? I dont agree with the post, but find it in no way misogynistic. What about the worldwide economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Why is the first post misogynistic? I dont agree with the post, but find it in no way misogynistic. What about the worldwide economy? TH3 is certainly talking down to BG. How is the rest of the world's economy going? What are their interest rates like? If ours are higher what will that do to our economy? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Why is the first post misogynistic? I dont agree with the post, but find it in no way misogynistic. What about the worldwide economy? It was, but it doesn't really matter to me. I consider the source and move on. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: It was, but it doesn't really matter to me. I consider the source and move on. ? interesting, why do you feel that way? I am truly trying to learn why i did not, and not being snarky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 No veteran thread? I guess I will put it here: Executive Order: President Trump Cancels Student Loan Debt for Disabled Veterans President Trump signed an executive order on Wednesday that forgives all student loan debt for any permanently disabled U.S. military veterans. The order, which Trump signed following a speech at the American Veterans National Convention in Louisville, Ky., also clears those eligible veterans from having to pay any federal income tax on the loans. Trump added that he is pressuring individual states to follow suit. </snip> 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 54 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Sure thing, toots. I'll take your opinion into consideration.? ...maybe hubby will fight your economy battles....on second thought....naw.......ain't happenin'.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: No veteran thread? I guess I will put it here: Executive Order: President Trump Cancels Student Loan Debt for Disabled Veterans President Trump signed an executive order on Wednesday that forgives all student loan debt for any permanently disabled U.S. military veterans. The order, which Trump signed following a speech at the American Veterans National Convention in Louisville, Ky., also clears those eligible veterans from having to pay any federal income tax on the loans. Trump added that he is pressuring individual states to follow suit. </snip> this is awesome 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: No veteran thread? I guess I will put it here: Executive Order: President Trump Cancels Student Loan Debt for Disabled Veterans President Trump signed an executive order on Wednesday that forgives all student loan debt for any permanently disabled U.S. military veterans. The order, which Trump signed following a speech at the American Veterans National Convention in Louisville, Ky., also clears those eligible veterans from having to pay any federal income tax on the loans. Trump added that he is pressuring individual states to follow suit. </snip> Socialist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Socialist. I hope you are being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: So, let me ask one question, if the economy was the best ever I just don't understand how all you so called conservatives are fine with the fact that Trump keeps driving the deficit higher I'm not fine with it, especially as Trump's priority is pretty clearly re-election rather than what's best for the country fiscally, but most pols in Washington are in the same basket. The problem with all this artificial stimulus (tax cuts and particularly deficit spending) is that it's addictive. It's now become a necessity to continue growth when we should in good times be finding ways reduce the annual deficit even at the expense of a little less growth IMO. At some point this mounting debt will hit the proverbial fan. Nothing is forever. Edited August 21, 2019 by keepthefaith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I hope you are being sarcastic. Somewhat. I'm fine with forgiving student loan debt for veterans with disabilities but the taxpayers have to pay for it. I'm going to assume that some conservatives are worried it's a precursor for student debt being eliminated across the board once a Democratic president gets into office. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Somewhat. I'm fine with forgiving student loan debt for veterans with disabilities but the taxpayers have to pay for it. I'm going to assume that some conservatives are worried it's a precursor for student debt being eliminated across the board once a Democratic president gets into office. Aren't you a Bernie Sanders supporter or am I confusing you with someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, keepthefaith said: I'm not fine with it, especially as Trump's priority is pretty clearly re-election rather than what's best for the country fiscally, but most pols in Washington are in the same basket. The problem with all this artificial stimulus (tax cuts and particularly deficit spending) is that it's addictive. It's now become a necessity to continue growth when we should in good times be finding ways reduce the annual deficit even at the expense of a little less growth IMO. At some point this mounting debt will hit the proverbial fan. Nothing is forever. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cbo-boosts-10-year-forecasts-for-budget-deficits-by-809-billion-11566399611?mod=mhp Due to the art of no deal “deal” reached last month “In total, deficits are now expected to rise $809 billion more than the agency [CBO] projected just a few months ago, bringing total deficits over the next decade to $12.2 trillion.” And Trump feels impulsively like lowering taxes receipts more. When things really take a downturn, which they will, these last few years of fiscal irresponsibility will look particularly ugly and those that cheered it short sighted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: Aren't you a Bernie Sanders supporter or am I confusing you with someone else? Feel the Bern!!! No. I voted for Hillary in the primary and general as she was more in line with her husbands politics of having the right blend of pragmatism and ideology. I knew she was a deeply flawed candidate though. If you told me 10 years ago that the eccentric guy from the Apprentice who puts his name on his private plane in case he loses it at the airport would become president I would just have assumed he ran against Hillary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/cbo-boosts-10-year-forecasts-for-budget-deficits-by-809-billion-11566399611?mod=mhp Due to the art of no deal “deal” reached last month “In total, deficits are now expected to rise $809 billion more than the agency [CBO] projected just a few months ago, bringing total deficits over the next decade to $12.2 trillion.” And Trump feels impulsively like lowering taxes receipts more. When things really take a downturn, which they will, these last few years of fiscal irresponsibility will look particularly ugly and those that cheered it short sighted. blasphemy according to all the "conservative" Trump supporters...as i have said since the tax cut..you can accuse Dems of Tax and Spend..but Trump only has the spend part down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: blasphemy according to all the "conservative" Trump supporters...as i have said since the tax cut..you can accuse Dems of Tax and Spend..but Trump only has the spend part down. It'll be very interesting to see if Trump campaigns on spending restraint. He's been pretty critical of our debt and his predecessors roles in that. If he does campaign on it and wins, then we should expect that he'll try to tackle deficits in a second term but if we get a recession, his presidency will look debt-wise much like Obama's and he'll hand his successor a big bag of *****. But hey, as long as there is a thirst on the part of investors to fund unlimited U.S. debt, spend away so say "economists". Edited August 22, 2019 by keepthefaith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Our biggest issues at present are coming out on top in trade disputes with China and the EU and our stances against Iran and North Korea. Getting our deficits under control are important but highly unlikely if we don't solve these other issues. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, TH3 said: You should not talk on matters of the economy....your being brainwashed or ignorant or some combination of the both is way too evident..... You do much better in these forums when you do not venture out on your own but rather simply parrot what you think the regulars are going to like.... Go ***** yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TtownBillsFan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, keepthefaith said: I'm not fine with it, especially as Trump's priority is pretty clearly re-election rather than what's best for the country fiscally, but most pols in Washington are in the same basket. The problem with all this artificial stimulus (tax cuts and particularly deficit spending) is that it's addictive. It's now become a necessity to continue growth when we should in good times be finding ways reduce the annual deficit even at the expense of a little less growth IMO. At some point this mounting debt will hit the proverbial fan. Nothing is forever. I'd rather reward people that have given, literally, their life/limbs in service to the country, than to reward sitting-on-arse, lazy turds. Cut "entitlement" spending across the board, but rewarding those that have truly given in the defense of the country, I'll always be 100% in favor of that, regardless the cost. And I'm conservative as they come, and I hate deficit spending. But I'll back up what I'm saying. I'm 100% fine with means-testing our 'social safety net'; including what I've paid in for my entire life in the way of SS benefits. That's what it's going to take to balance that budget; means-testing, and a further increase in the age benefits begin. I don't have kids, but it's going to be on the next generation to pay all this crap back until someone with some sense has the balls to do what's needed (and hopefully a 2nd term Trump will do so, if he can get enough Congresscritters to go along with it, which the likelihood is probably at or near 0.) But until we get the "entitlements" in check, we're never going to get out of deficit spending. I'll take my bitter pill to see it done (extend recipient age, means-test, etc.) Anyone else willing? Edited August 22, 2019 by TtownBillsFan to make it clear my non-existent kids aren't going to pay back the deficit, lol :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) Ehhh...no kids either but not down with means testing. However....I’m willing to let the govt keep the money they’ve confiscated from myself and my employer (without return)... if they stop taking SS pout of my paycheck (and charging my employer) hence forth. Edit: mid 40s and between my employers and I the govt has taken at least 150k plus Edited August 22, 2019 by Kevbeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 https://www.wsj.com/articles/options-dwindle-to-boost-u-s-economic-growth-11566431581?mod=mhp “After debating for days whether the U.S. is going into an economic downturn, Washington policy makers and Wall Street investors on Wednesday barreled into an even more difficult problem: There are few good options to deal with one if it happens. With short-term interest rates already low, the Federal Reserve has little room to cut borrowing costs to spur spending and investment as it usually does in a slowdown. Meantime, the federal debt is exploding, which could hamstring any efforts to boost growth with tax cuts or spending increases.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) Huh...monthly job growth under Trump....181,000.....monthly job growth under 75 months of BO expansion leading up to DT......199,000 Debt when BO left office....Debt now.....Oh wait.....these are facts........you guys are probably already confused and perplexed.... 11 hours ago, row_33 said: Go ***** yourself Truth hurts Edited August 22, 2019 by TH3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 7:10 PM, Buffalo_Gal said: Repealing the ObamaCare tax alone was worth something to people (I say this as part of the first group that was ***** over on ObamaCare). I'd love to know real numbers on how many people are now working one 40 hour work week versus two below 32 hours work weeks when ObamaCare came about. What is better? This is just snap. @Buffalo_Gal, I have not read this report, but thought you may be interested in their early findings. Madeline is a good HR tech analyst and she is not as easily bought as Garner, Averbrook, and Bersin etc by HR Tech companies..so her research i tend to trust more than the big guys in this space. Will update 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, TH3 said: Truth hurts Misogynist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 i'm an optimist but it can't go on expanding past these levels without a "correction" or two eventually the big boys want to cash in on their Wall Street gains, leaving only union pensions holding the bag, but they are government indexed against loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, TH3 said: Huh...monthly job growth under Trump....181,000.....monthly job growth under 75 months of BO expansion leading up to DT......199,000 Debt when BO left office....Debt now.....Oh wait.....these are facts........you guys are probably already confused and perplexed.... Truth hurts Data without context is just a collection of numbers. Tell me which hat you wore for each Summer of Recovery?™️©️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, GG said: Data without context is just a collection of numbers. Tell me which hat you wore for each Summer of Recovery?™️©️ context context context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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