plenzmd1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Didn't you just complain about accusations of TDS and #OrangeManBad being lazy and untrue? absolutely...if its good one way, its good the other no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: absolutely...if its good one way, its good the other no? Oh, so you're just being disingenuous again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, Koko78 said: Oh, so you're just being disingenuous again. No, if he wants to say my ideas and thoughts are only formed cause TDS, i would then say his ideas are only formed cause Trump told him what to believe..how is that disingenuous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: No, if he wants to say my ideas and thoughts are only formed cause TDS, i would then say his ideas are only formed cause Trump told him what to believe..how is that disingenuous? How are you disingenuous? Let's see: 1.) You complain about it. 2.) You then do the same thing you just complained about. Gee, this was really tough to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I'm sure it's the media's fault and not the "Chosen One's"... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-30/u-s-consumer-sentiment-falls-most-since-2012-on-tariff-concern?srnd=premium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, Koko78 said: How are you disingenuous? Let's see: 1.) You complain about it. 2.) You then do the same thing you just complained about. Gee, this was really tough to figure out. #1) Complain about it cause when he does not debate numbers and results and the merits of a trade war , he always goes to the TDS crap 2) so i will start doing it back, and just start saying anyone who ever agrees with Trump is a lemming who cant think for themselves..even stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, TPS said: I'm sure it's the media's fault and not the "Chosen One's"... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-30/u-s-consumer-sentiment-falls-most-since-2012-on-tariff-concern?srnd=premium Yeah, yeah it is the media's fault.. Beat the ***** gong for recession, recession, recession and like subliminal messaging (although there was NOTHING subliminal about the MSM screeching "RECESSION!!!!!") it is bound to take hold. Those #######s in the press won't be happy until there are breadlines in the United States. And for the disingenuous, here is the "chosen one" comment. I can understand why President Trump drives people who do not understand humor, sarcasm, or sound-bites, crazy. His manner of speaking isn't for everyone, and clearly it is not something the press can understand (which is ironic considering marketing is their game, not news, and Trump is nothing if not an expert marketer). In any event, he is not wrong. China should have been taken on a LONG time ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: i know..discussing actual numbers , and results, and if a trade deficit is good or bad for the US, and comparing Trumps record on the Economy to Obama's is hard work, and does not have the results you want.....so you result to the the ever Easy "You TDS" You # organemanbad"...childish argument It's hard to compare Trump and Obama's record on a lot of things not just the economy. Every move Trump makes is incredibly scrutinized, while the coverage on Obama was basically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: It's hard to compare Trump and Obama's record on a lot of things not just the economy. Every move Trump makes is incredibly scrutinized, while the coverage on Obama was basically... heres my point..ya know whats great about the economy and stock markets and such...there are actual numbers to compare, not ideologies and beliefs. Problem for some in this here thread is as soon as bring up numbers that are not favorable, get labeled TDS or brainwashed by the MSM. Say the same thing about a Trump supporter, and you get called disingenuous.I just understand the duplicity in that I am all for debating facts and numbers and having different points of views, but has to be a two way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Yeah, yeah it is the media's fault.. Beat the ***** gong for recession, recession, recession and like subliminal messaging (although there was NOTHING subliminal about the MSM screeching "RECESSION!!!!!") it is bound to take hold. Those #######s in the press won't be happy until there are breadlines in the United States. And for the disingenuous, here is the "chosen one" comment. I can understand why President Trump drives people who do not understand humor, sarcasm, or sound-bites, crazy. His manner of speaking isn't for everyone, and clearly it is not something the press can understand (which is ironic considering marketing is their game, not news, and Trump is nothing if not an expert marketer). In any event, he is not wrong. China should have been taken on a LONG time ago. do you think it is the press causing fear or is Trump's trade war and rhetoric and tweets with China? Should the press not report that or the underlying numbers? Are they not "working for Trump" anymore just like Fox? You say China should have been taken on long ago..please tell me why? Do you fundamentally believe a trade deficit with China is bad? Why? Do you believe in free trade? Lets talk about the IP...how do tariffs affect that? (I honestly don't know BTW, but i can tell you trade deficits don't bother me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: do you think it is the press causing fear or is Trump's trade war and rhetoric and tweets with China? Should the press not report that or the underlying numbers? Are they not "working for Trump" anymore just like Fox? You say China should have been taken on long ago..please tell me why? Do you fundamentally believe a trade deficit with China is bad? Why? Do you believe in free trade? Lets talk about the IP...how do tariffs affect that? (I honestly don't know BTW, but i can tell you trade deficits don't bother me) You are all over the place... Trump's "rhetoric"? You mean like sticks-and-stones? Go fishing through the media thread for the reports on the first two years of Trump's presidency media report numbers (it was a detailed study.). Fox aired negative stores about President Trump and the Trump administration 55% of the time. I'm not sure how Fox news airing negative stories more than half of the time against Trump is "working for him". (The other stations were 90% - 95% negative.) I think we, as a nation, gave up a lot to enrich a few connected people in our trade dealings with China. As I have stated before, I do not mind paying higher prices for my 15th TV (note: hyperbole, I don't really have fifteen television sets) if it means jobs coming back to the United States. I also firmly believe some of it is in the interest of national security to have US factories (rare metals, steel, etc), and US production of goods that are easily tracked (GPS, phones, etc - and yes, I realize in this instance the same may happen with US production as has happened with Chinese production) in the United States. As far as IP laws, you'd think President Trump would be Hollywood's favorite President! Not to mention silicon valley should love him. He wants to protect their interests. And yet, they appear to hate him for it. ?♀️ Edited August 30, 2019 by Buffalo_Gal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: do you think it is the press causing fear or is Trump's trade war and rhetoric and tweets with China? Should the press not report that or the underlying numbers? Are they not "working for Trump" anymore just like Fox? You say China should have been taken on long ago..please tell me why? Do you fundamentally believe a trade deficit with China is bad? Why? Do you believe in free trade? Lets talk about the IP...how do tariffs affect that? (I honestly don't know BTW, but i can tell you trade deficits don't bother me) I imagine GG or TPS will correct me, but trade deficits are not necessarily a bad thing. You have the potential to make more money with deficits (depends on purchasing of treasuries, etc.). However, there is a point where it is no longer economically beneficial for the U.S. (which should obviously be our focus). We should focus on making it more equitable when we have crossed that threshold where it is no longer beneficial. IP theft is a different story. In both cases, Trump is using tariffs as a hammer to get them to work on IP theft and to lessen the trade imbalance. Whether you agree or not with the approach, that is what he is using as leverage. Short-term pain for long-term gain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, KRC said: I imagine GG or TPS will correct me, but trade deficits are not necessarily a bad thing. You have the potential to make more money with deficits (depends on purchasing of treasuries, etc.). However, there is a point where it is no longer economically beneficial for the U.S. (which should obviously be our focus). We should focus on making it more equitable when we have crossed that threshold where it is no longer beneficial. IP theft is a different story. In both cases, Trump is using tariffs as a hammer to get them to work on IP theft and to lessen the trade imbalance. Whether you agree or not with the approach, that is what he is using as leverage. Short-term pain for long-term gain. granted, this from the libertarian leaning Cato Institute, but a good synopsis and a good read no matter where you fall on free trade and capitalism vs central planning and protectionism that Trump is trying implement. https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/winter-2019/assessing-president-trumps-trade-priorities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Context matters. You can’t look at metrics alone and then make a definitive conclusion about the state of the economy. If you polled any CEO if they would rather be in a business environment that was under Obama or is under Trump, the answer would be “it depends.” They all would admit that the environment under Obama was pretty bad for making long term investments due to the uncertainty of what additional costs and burdens his policies would entail. With Trump, it’s the opposite. You have a fairly good handle that there won’t be surprise costs down the line, but you also have to navigate the higher immediate input cost of the trade war. Of course Trump being Trump would never admit to the economy being affected by his trade policies, but it is. He’d be in a better place if he explained the necessary economic hit to reign China in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Ouch! Taxes taxes taxes! A study by J.P. Morgan found that Trump's tariffs will cost the average U.S. household $1,000 a year. That study was done before Trump raised the Sept. 1 and Dec. 15 tariffs to 15% from 10%. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trumps-15-tariffs-112b-chinese-goods-effect-65321654 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ouch! Taxes taxes taxes! A study by J.P. Morgan found that Trump's tariffs will cost the average U.S. household $1,000 a year. That study was done before Trump raised the Sept. 1 and Dec. 15 tariffs to 15% from 10%. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trumps-15-tariffs-112b-chinese-goods-effect-65321654 I really don't see your pay being affected at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I really don't see your pay being affected at all. My pay? Lol, dumb you don't even understand how Tariffs work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 They have asked me not to quote you so........... I know how tariffs work and there will be a fair amount of short term pain in order to correct some long standing problems. Nothing is ever static in the field of economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Taxes Trump taxes, he is raising taxes on average, middle class Americans He is the Tariff man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 If Trump’s tariffs cost me $1,000, you have to wonder what Obama’s unemployment lines cost me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 For a minute I thought that Tiberius was trying to say that his clown pants and laundry detergent was going to be affected by tariffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: If Trump’s tariffs cost me $1,000, you have to wonder what Obama’s unemployment lines cost me? Obamacare has cost the average family much more and for years and years to come. If Trump gets something done with China then Tariffs have a chance to pay off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 China has devalued its currency in order to remain competitive and stop the flight of manufacturing from their country. The tariffs are working. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, keepthefaith said: Obamacare has cost the average family much more and for years and years to come. If Trump gets something done with China then Tariffs have a chance to pay off. Obamacare actually saved millions and millions of people money and health, something you can't measure. Trump's Tariffs are just an irrational temper tantrum, the proof of this is the latest round of tariffs he just did as a knee jerk reaction. Obamacares taxes also didnt didn't slow down the global economy. Economy actually improved after Most Americans with functioning brains know: Obama > Trump not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Obamacare actually saved millions and millions of people money and health, something you can't measure. Trump's Tariffs are just an irrational temper tantrum, the proof of this is the latest round of tariffs he just did as a knee jerk reaction. Obamacares taxes also didnt didn't slow down the global economy. Economy actually improved after It provided free health insurance to some at the expense of those that buy private insurance. It taxed people who didn't or wouldn't buy insurance. It mandated that people buy coverage they didn't necessarily want. It taxed medical devices. It increased Medicaid benefits which caused private insurance rates to rise. It cut Medicare which caused private insurance rates to rise. It created a new tax, the net investment tax. It allows HSA accounts for some people and not others. That's not savings, that's just shifting cost. Edited September 2, 2019 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, keepthefaith said: It provided free health insurance to some at the expense of those that buy private insurance. It taxed people who didn't or wouldn't buy insurance. It mandated that people buy coverage they didn't necessarily want. It taxed medical devices. It cut Medicare which caused private insurance rates to rise. It created a new tax, the net investment tax. It allows HSA accounts for some people and not others. That's not savings, that's just shifting cost. So you won't even admit Trump is raising taxes on consumers? Just admit it. You are trying to change the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Obamacare actually saved millions and millions of people money and health, something you can't measure. Then how do you know? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: So you won't even admit Trump is raising taxes on consumers? Just admit it. You are trying to change the subject I really don't like quoting you but answer this one question: If Trump raises the cost of a product by 10% (via tariffs) and China reduces the cost by 10% is that product costing the consumers more money? I bet you don't have the balls to answer in a serious manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Then how do you know? consensus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I really don't like quoting you but answer this one question: If Trump raises the cost of a product by 10% (via tariffs) and China reduces the cost by 10% is that product costing the consumers more money? I bet you don't have the balls to answer in a serious manner. I doubt that he will be back this afternoon. It's hammer and sickle day at the cubicle farm and the festivities call for tepid water and grilled tofu for the afternoon picnic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 The biggest benefit from the tariffs is the US companies' moves to diversify their supply chain away from China. It will take some time, but the benefits will be long lasting. There is near term pain, though. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, GG said: The biggest benefit from the tariffs is the US companies' moves to diversify their supply chain away from China. It will take some time, but the benefits will be long lasting. There is near term pain, though. That pain has been minimized by the weakening of the yen though. If they were willing to devalue their currency over 10% tariffs what will they do over 25% tariffs? I don't have an answer but I do know that China is in a world of hurt. Yes, diversifying USA companies supply chain away from China is a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 hours ago, DC Tom said: Then how do you know? Deductive logic you twit 1 hour ago, GG said: The biggest benefit from the tariffs is the US companies' moves to diversify their supply chain away from China. It will take some time, but the benefits will be long lasting. There is near term pain, though. Yup, and the farmers who will never get their markets back and the decline in overall global trade, well, that's just the price we pay for Trump's incompetence. I remember when GG wasn't an apologist for Trump. Weak people succumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Hey HAHA Gator, aren't you going to answer me above? Soybeans are a commodity and can be sold nearly everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Hey HAHA Gator, aren't you going to answer me above? Soybeans are a commodity and can be sold nearly everywhere. was actually a positive statement for the first time i've read on here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Tibs is an idiot! The point of the tariff is to raise the price of Chinese goods back up to the point where they should have been all along. China is manipulating the cost of their products in hopes of putting US manufacturing out of business. But apparently as long as Tibs can get his underwear at cheap prices, he could care less how many Americans are out of work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Tibs is an idiot! The point of the tariff is to raise the price of Chinese goods back up to the point where they should have been all along. China is manipulating the cost of their products in hopes of putting US manufacturing out of business. But apparently as long as Tibs can get his underwear at cheap prices, he could care less how many Americans are out of work. Have you read this report? Tell me what you disagree with the main analysis that Trumps tariffs are hurting the American economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Also in the foreign policy thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Third complaint. I gotta say, China certainly has hutzpah. All China has to do is deal fairly and honestly with the United States (hahahaha) and the tariffs go away. But nooooooooooooo... China lodges tariff case at WTO against the U.S. China has lodged a complaint against the United States at the World Trade Organization over U.S. import duties, the Chinese Commerce Ministry said on Monday. </snip> The lawsuit is the third Beijing has brought to challenge U.S. President Donald Trump’s China-specific tariffs at the WTO, the international organisation that limits the tariffs each country is allowed to charge. </snip> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Also in the foreign policy thread: Why do you believe his tweets and claims.....at the G7 he tweeted that China called wanting to restart trade talks.....total lie.....and yet 5th Avenuers like your self continue to post his crap..... snip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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