Nanker Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 12/26/2018 at 2:13 PM, 3rdnlng said: What, punch the head of a government agency right in the mouth? You could get impeached from your job. I’m retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 The economy has been humming along for the last 2 years. I just hope Trump and the HoR don't blow it with a long shutdown. So far, 800,000 government people aren't getting paid. Then you have the suppliers like food suppliers at national parks and IT consultants and office supply vendors and the companies that supply them and on and on. i was on an IT project that got shut down last time. A lot More people are not getting paid or paid less than just government workers. Trickle down in action. This could result in weakened consumer confidence which is the driver of a bad economy. Bill Maher might like it, but a lot of us won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 6 hours ago, reddogblitz said: The economy has been humming along for the last 2 years. I just hope Trump and the HoR don't blow it with a long shutdown. So far, 800,000 government people aren't getting paid. Then you have the suppliers like food suppliers at national parks and IT consultants and office supply vendors and the companies that supply them and on and on. i was on an IT project that got shut down last time. A lot More people are not getting paid or paid less than just government workers. Trickle down in action. This could result in weakened consumer confidence which is the driver of a bad economy. Bill Maher might like it, but a lot of us won't The "federal workers not getting paid" thing is a bit overblown, just because of the government payroll schedule. Most workers still have one paycheck coming to them, on the 16th, so they don't truly start feeling the financial effects of the shutdown until late January. But the vendors that support government work...they are already taking a hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 US national debt rises $2 trillion under Trump The US national debt stood at $21.974 trillion at the end of 2018, more than $2 trillion higher than when President Donald Trump took office, according to numbers released Thursday by the Treasury Department. The debt began to level off at the beginning of Trump's term, but bounced up again last year as the tax cuts passed at the end of 2017 took effect and the dramatically lower corporate tax rate lowered Treasury revenues. As a candidate, Trump promised to "get rid of" the national debt, telling the Washington Post in 2016 that he could make the US debt-free "over a period of eight years." https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/03/politics/trump-us-national-debt/index.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 "Average earnings climbed to $27.48 an hour." That's up 3.2% in the 12 months (up from a 3.1% increase in November), NPR reports. Meanwhile, the unemployment rate jumped to 3.9 percent — the highest rate since August — as more people felt confident enough to quit their jobs and look for new ones.... Job growth surges by 312,000 in December Nonfarm payrolls surged by 312,000 in December. Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had been expecting payroll growth of just 176,000. Wages jumped 3.2 percent from a year ago and 0.4 percent over the previous month. The year-over-year increase is tied with October for the best since April 2009. The unemployment rate rose to 3.9 percent as more workers joined the labor force. Jeff Cox | @JeffCoxCNBCcom Published 2 Hours Ago Updated 21 Mins AgoCNBC.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, ALF said: US national debt rises $2 trillion under Trump The US national debt stood at $21.974 trillion at the end of 2018, more than $2 trillion higher than when President Donald Trump took office, according to numbers released Thursday by the Treasury Department. The debt began to level off at the beginning of Trump's term, but bounced up again last year as the tax cuts passed at the end of 2017 took effect and the dramatically lower corporate tax rate lowered Treasury revenues. As a candidate, Trump promised to "get rid of" the national debt, telling the Washington Post in 2016 that he could make the US debt-free "over a period of eight years." https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/03/politics/trump-us-national-debt/index.html Compare to the three trillion in Obama's first two years in office... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Compare to the three trillion in Obama's first two years in office... Who can forget the cash for clunkers campaign. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Compare to the three trillion in Obama's first two years in office... You're either kidding or "you're an idiot"...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 53 minutes ago, TPS said: You're either kidding or "you're an idiot"...? That's what I like, refuting with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Compare to the three trillion in Obama's first two years in office... Obama inherited a crashed economy , you knew that , had to have stimulus to prevent a depression. Two major wars to fund cost mega $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, ALF said: Obama inherited a crashed economy , you knew that , had to have stimulus to prevent a depression. Two major wars to fund cost mega $ He ran on ending those wars, instead he expanded them and spent more on them. Just like he ran on ending surveillance abuse but wound up doubling the size of the secret court system and doubling down on 4th and 5th amendment violations because it was politically beneficial to his administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: That's what I like, refuting with facts. See Alf's response. But It's silly trying to compare deficits when one expands during a contracting economy and the other expands in a growing economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Great job growth in December. 150,000 more jobs than predicted. Wages are up, but so is unemployment. November job growth was also revised upward by 58,000. It's almost as if the workforce is growing dramatically for all of this to be happening. I wonder what will happen when we get a new deal with China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Great job growth in December. 150,000 more jobs than predicted. Wages are up, but so is unemployment. November job growth was also revised upward by 58,000. It's almost as if the workforce is growing dramatically for all of this to be happening. I wonder what will happen when we get a new deal with China? Was the Dec and Nov job growth retail sales to cover Christmas shopping ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 26 minutes ago, ALF said: Was the Dec and Nov job growth retail sales to cover Christmas shopping ? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: He ran on ending those wars, instead he expanded them and spent more on them. This is one of the main reasons I voted for Barack the first time and not the second time. I don't like Trump, but I will say he has gone after and even accomplished more campaign promises (whether you like them or not) than any other president I can remember. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Merchant Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, ALF said: Obama inherited a crashed economy , you knew that , had to have stimulus to prevent a depression. Two major wars to fund cost mega $ Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, ALF said: Obama inherited a crashed economy , you knew that , had to have stimulus to prevent a depression. Two major wars to fund cost mega $ Ummmm, notfernuthing, but every single breathing human who paid even the least bit of attention to Obama's "Recover Act" knows it was virtually nothing more than a taxpayer-funded handout to groups and organizations that supported his presidency. Go. Dig. Look at the recipients. See how it was doled out. Oh, sure, there was some money for studying grape genetics, and that was pretty important, but otherwise, everyone knows the truth. There's a reason Obama ultimately has to confess that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we expected." Because there was no shovel ready. There were only pockets opened. Which is also why every freaking summer was going to be THE summer of recovery. I appreciate not liking Trump, but please, please, please do not try to suggest Obama did anything other than line people's pockets with the Recovery Act. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: Ummmm, notfernuthing, but every single breathing human who paid even the least bit of attention to Obama's "Recover Act" knows it was virtually nothing more than a taxpayer-funded handout to groups and organizations that supported his presidency. Go. Dig. Look at the recipients. See how it was doled out. Oh, sure, there was some money for studying grape genetics, and that was pretty important, but otherwise, everyone knows the truth. There's a reason Obama ultimately has to confess that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we expected." Because there was no shovel ready. There were only pockets opened. Which is also why every freaking summer was going to be THE summer of recovery. I appreciate not liking Trump, but please, please, please do not try to suggest Obama did anything other than line people's pockets with the Recovery Act. I think it's Kiko's fault and I hope he pays dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 20 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: @Buffalo_Gal So’s ya saying it was not related to Pelosi it it was a valiant try, and I had a good chuckle! Ok, so look at today in the market... the jobs numbers and wage increases came out yesterday and were outstanding. Then, Powell didn't signal that the Feds (yet) had any plans to tank the economy. So, up 700+ points. Monday, someone could say Congress is going to pass X, Y, Z regulations that Trump will sign (unlikely, but as an example), and it will go down 500 points. ?♀️ Up, down, back up, back down... people have gone broke (and made fortunes) trying to read the stock market tea-leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, ALF said: Obama inherited a crashed economy , you knew that , had to have stimulus to prevent a depression. Two major wars to fund cost mega $ So now we're discussing deficit spending, and not debt? Why don't you just pick one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Ok, so look at today in the market... the jobs numbers and wage increases came out yesterday and were outstanding. Then, Powell didn't signal that the Feds (yet) had any plans to tank the economy. So, up 700+ points. Monday, someone could say Congress is going to pass X, Y, Z regulations that Trump will sign (unlikely, but as an example), and it will go down 500 points. ?♀️ Up, down, back up, back down... people have gone broke (and made fortunes) trying to read the stock market tea-leaves. i will say the volatility has been crazy lately( jeez wonder what else is volatile that could reflect?) ..but since January of last year, the market has been in either a holding pattern or a downward trend. While certainly not an absolute indicator of economic performance moving forward, it generally a good indicator of sentiment for the next 18-24 months. As you said so well in another post...no matter my dislike for Trump, I want this freaking economy to stay strong..I need it to stay strong for myriad reasons!!! I fear Trump is making the wrong moves..but sure hope it's me that's wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, DC Tom said: So now we're discussing deficit spending, and not debt? Why don't you just pick one? doesn't the former lead to the latter? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: doesn't the former lead to the latter? Considering that the debt has consistently increased since 1957, including during the Clinton "surplus," and often increases by more than the deficit, I'd suggest that perhaps...no it doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Considering that the debt has consistently increased since 1957, including during the Clinton "surplus," and often increases by more than the deficit, I'd suggest that perhaps...no it doesn't? I truly don't know....was hoping to learn something( not being sarcastic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I truly don't know....was hoping to learn something( not being sarcastic) I've never dug in to the details myself, just seen that "deficit" and "debt" are two very different things, that nonetheless too many people use interchangeably to prove whatever point they want to make. And people also like to conflate - purposely - overall debt and public debt, and mandatory and discretionary spending. It's ridiculously easy to oversimplify and confuse the issue. Which was where I was going with my original "Comparing Obama's $3T to Trump's $2T" post - it's ridiculously easy to portray them however you prefer. For example: Obama's $3T increase in debt represents about a 30% increase in the debt/GDP ratio (roughly from 60% to 90%) to a level considered constrictive to economic growth (over 70%) by the World Bank. Trump's $2T, on the other hand, is still a decrease to 99% debt/GDP from 104% when he took office, so it represents an improving situation. Right? Well...except that that 30% increase in Obama's first to years, being a ratio, represents an economic contraction as well as an increase in debt...so that's not even as bad as it looks at first...but during Obama's "economic growth," the debt/GDP ratio still increased by 15%...so that's bad compared to Trump's first to years, right? And then what if I told you that Trump's budget deficit for 2018 is $70B less that was forecast? That shows a measure of fiscal responsibility...that's good, despite the debt, right? Point being: whenever somebody chucks a single number at you out of context, they're lying to you. And odds are, they're even lying to themselves. There's only three people on this board I trust to discuss economic policy (not that I trust them to be right, I just know they're not talking completely out of their asses.) And ALF isn't one of them. Neither am I, for that matter - I just have a background that gives me a good domain-independent ability to spot bull####. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I know this part of the discussion was from a few days ago, but some more info on Apple's woes https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/01/04/2120254/netflixs-new-itunes-billing-policy-will-curb-a-256-million-revenue-stream-for-apple #orangemanbad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 13 hours ago, /dev/null said: I know this part of the discussion was from a few days ago, but some more info on Apple's woes https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/01/04/2120254/netflixs-new-itunes-billing-policy-will-curb-a-256-million-revenue-stream-for-apple #orangemanbad i was just coming to post about that!! Great minds! https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/01/04/app-store-war-between-netflix-apple-is-heating-up/?utm_term=.df9b2429390e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 18 hours ago, DC Tom said: I've never dug in to the details myself, just seen that "deficit" and "debt" are two very different things, that nonetheless too many people use interchangeably to prove whatever point they want to make. And people also like to conflate - purposely - overall debt and public debt, and mandatory and discretionary spending. It's ridiculously easy to oversimplify and confuse the issue. Which was where I was going with my original "Comparing Obama's $3T to Trump's $2T" post - it's ridiculously easy to portray them however you prefer. For example: Obama's $3T increase in debt represents about a 30% increase in the debt/GDP ratio (roughly from 60% to 90%) to a level considered constrictive to economic growth (over 70%) by the World Bank. Trump's $2T, on the other hand, is still a decrease to 99% debt/GDP from 104% when he took office, so it represents an improving situation. Right? Well...except that that 30% increase in Obama's first to years, being a ratio, represents an economic contraction as well as an increase in debt...so that's not even as bad as it looks at first...but during Obama's "economic growth," the debt/GDP ratio still increased by 15%...so that's bad compared to Trump's first to years, right? And then what if I told you that Trump's budget deficit for 2018 is $70B less that was forecast? That shows a measure of fiscal responsibility...that's good, despite the debt, right? Point being: whenever somebody chucks a single number at you out of context, they're lying to you. And odds are, they're even lying to themselves. There's only three people on this board I trust to discuss economic policy (not that I trust them to be right, I just know they're not talking completely out of their asses.) And ALF isn't one of them. Neither am I, for that matter - I just have a background that gives me a good domain-independent ability to spot bull####. Thanks, I feel better now, sort of. I was starting to worry about your mental state, but now I see I'm the one slowing down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Ford Cancels a $1.6 Billion Mexico Plant and Adds 700 Jobs in Michigan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Foxx said: Ford Cancels a $1.6 Billion Mexico Plant and Adds 700 Jobs in Michigan 2-year old news? What are you using, dial-up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: 2-year old news? What are you using, dial-up? lol, my bad. forgot to check the date. thanks for the check. it was on DT Jr. twitter a couple days ago.... Edited January 9, 2019 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, Foxx said: lol, my bad. forgot to check the date. thanks for the check. it was on DT Jr. twitter a couple days ago.... It happens a lot around here, so I've become accustomed to checking dates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: It happens a lot around here, so I've become accustomed to checking dates. i generally do as well but it is hard to catch every little thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Did you guys hear the latest? A Constitutional Amendment was just passed allowing women the right to vote! Those damned suffragettes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 23 hours ago, Koko78 said: Did you guys hear the latest? A Constitutional Amendment was just passed allowing women the right to vote! Those damned suffragettes! Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Link? I can't. I heard it over the telegraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: I can't. I heard it over the telegraph. That's a fine tuned ear to recall Morse code blips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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