Ranking Whaley's Worst Moves

[BillsLux]

Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley.

 

For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more.

 

1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy)

2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays

3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins

4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead)

5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder

6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice

7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ)

 

 

 

[Rico]

Shoving EJ down 2 HC's throats, a 3rd if you count today, and maybe a 4th next year. That's where he finally lost me. I'm OK with drafting EJ, but he's overstayed his welcome by 2 years now. A real GM would've cut his losses a long time ago and moved on.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Marrone, Rex, Whaley, EJ, Jones, TT, offense, Nix, Brandon ...

Edited January 2, 2017 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Bangarang]

Trading a 4th round pick for Bryce Brown

 

Having EJ, Thad and Tuel as his QBs

 

Shoving EJ down our throats

 

Trading up for Watkins to justify EJ as a QB

Edited January 2, 2017 by Bangarang

[Augie]

I won't even read this. The title says more than enough. Garbage. Try a balanced thread.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Augie

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Trading a 4th round pick for Bryce Brown

 

Having EJ, Thad and Turl as his QBs

 

Shoving EJ down our throats

 

Trading up for Watkins to justify EJ as a QB

 

Good Lord, forgot those.

[Big74Mac]

Was Spiller his pick?

Passing on R. Wilson. Trading up for Watkins and not taking O. Beckem.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

2 picks for Watkins is high on my list, very high

Project QB's

Missing out on Carr as QB

[DDD]

Telling us his roster is playoff caliber and was held back due to coaching.

[TANK2]

Shoving EJ down 2 HC's throats, a 3rd if you count today, and maybe a 4th next year. That's where he finally lost me. I'm OK with drafting EJ, but he's overstayed his welcome by 2 years now. A real GM would've cut his losses a long time ago and moved on.

All EJ has to do is make a few minor corrections and the skys the limit.

[folz]

Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley.

 

For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more.

 

1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy)

Agreed

 

2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays Yes, some maturity issues had showed previously, but hard to give up a player this good.

 

3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins Ok, I'll give you this, though when healthy Sammy is pretty damn good.

 

4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead) Absolutely on sending Fred packing, he should have retired a Bill. But, Whaley has taken some chances on "risk" players. Some paid off, some didn't. Karlos looked like he would and then imploded, but I don't want to see the team never take chances (Jerry Hughes and Incognito for example).

 

5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder Let's face it, this was a Rex pick. Rex told the kid he was going to pick him well before the draft. The Clemson connection. And yet, if he turns out to be a good player, who cares about the bum shoulder. Would he really have turned this season around for the team as a rookie?

 

6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice Yes, agreed, but again, I think this was more Rex than Whaley.

 

7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ) To hit on a QB in say the 2nd to 6th rounds is such a crap shoot. (We were never really in position to take a QB in the 1st,.) Maybe he should have taken one or two more shots, but there is no guarantee with QBs...and who is to say that the coaching staffs we have had would have been able to develop a Russell Wilson or Andy Dalton or whoever else you are thinking that we missed on.

 

By no means has Whaley made all the right moves or always done the right thing, but you cannot say that this team isn't more talented than when he arrived. The problem may be that he has been treated as a GM in training for too long with first Buddy and then Russ overseeing his moves. It seems obvious to me at least that Marrone was Brandon's pick for coach and Rex was the Pegula's (they liked him) and Brandon's choice (he saw what a marketing boon Rex would be---more national coverage, great press conferences, selling hope to the fanbase).

 

I think it is good that the Pegulas are ready to give Whaley the keys to the car and let him be a true GM. Let's see what he can do with a coach that he selects, who shares his same philosophy, and who will work with him. I think having Rex report to the Pegulas and not to Doug (against the standard procedures of most teams) may have engendered distrust. I think Terry and Kim have seen that mistake and are going to let Doug take full control. Let's see what he can do.

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by folz

[TANK2]

I won't even read this. The title says more than enough. Garbage. Try a balanced thread.

Like "DOUG WHALEY IS THE BEST GM IN THE NFL"? That kind of balanced thread?

[Dragonborn10]

Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley.

 

For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more.

 

1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy)

2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays

3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins

4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead)

5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder

6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice

7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ)

 

 

 

When did he keep Karlos? And FJ was done the year before. He had a great run but he did nothing for Seattle after he left.

Dareus is a star player and worth the contract.

Harvin was a stop gap that already knew most of the plays.

Watkins is a superstar when healthy though I agree it was dumb to move up and get him.

Convenient to forget he got Hunter, Hughes, Loraz, Groy, and Z. Brown

 

Fair criticism would be constantly trading up in the draft and taking Cardale Jones three rounds before he should have.

[Pbomb]

This thread is great, hopefully we can start 5 more doug whaley sucks threads tomorow.

[Pbomb]

Cant believe people still bring up fred jackson, your argument instantly loses all credibility

[KOKBILLS]

This thread is great, hopefully we can start 5 more doug whaley sucks threads tomorow.

 

Yep...It's coming...

 

I forget who I heard say it last week...But they made the point that once Rex was gone the target would be squarely on Whaley...Worthy or not, I think that's pretty accurate...

[liverpoolkev]

Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley.

 

For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more.

 

1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy)

2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays

3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins

4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead)

5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder

6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice

7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ)

 

 

 

If that's all you have. I'm in good shape . I thought you were going to say draft Kelsay , schoebal ,maybin ,whitner or maybe pay oswilder 125 mil to sit the bench.... People are incredible too funny

[Nihilarian]

NFL Football... "It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play."

 

2013, Colin Brown was an Andy Levitre replacement that lasted around 4 games before being benched and released because he was so bad. Sam Young was another wasted roster spot as he came in the game for Brown on a couple of series and allowed a sack and hits so he also was benched and released after 4 games.

 

That year Whaley signed Doug Legursky to be the backup center and because all the other OG backup players were so bad... Legursky became the starting LG for most of the season and needless to say this guy was the worst graded player on the Bills line and didn't return for another year. The Bills were exceedingly lucky that Legursky lasted an entire season because the rest of the backups that year were right off the street.

 

2014, Signing OG Chris Williams for 5 mill guaranteed to see him play only three games before being released by the team because of a back injury!

Kraig Urbik moved to LG and Erik Pears played RG in 2014. Glenn, Urbik, Wood, Pears, Henderson was ranked as the very worst offensive line in the NFL for most of that season! This with basically three rookie QB's on the roster!

 

2015, Rex Ryan vouches for OG Richie Incognito and the Bills sign him to see a talent that elevates the play of the two players on either side of him. So, after two years the Bills finally replace Levitre with a quality player at LG. It was also Rex Ryan that wanted Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo.

 

The bottom line was that Whaley allowed the team to go into the 2013 season with EJ, Lewis and Tuel and no veteran QB on the roster and no QB coach on the team. The only person these young QB's had to learn the NFL ropes from was Nathaniel Hackett who was an NFL rookie OC himself.

 

After drafting Sammy Watkins, Whaley decides to trade for WR Mike Williams ( for a 6th)and trade away WR Stevie Johnson (for a 4th) because while Johnson didn't always run precise routes he was usually always open. Kyle Orton could have really used a WR that was always open. Sammy in his first season battling injuries all year long was used a lot as a decoy.

 

WR Mike Williams contribution to the team, 8 rec for 142 yards, 1 TD.

 

In 2014 the Bills traded for RB Bryce Brown for a 4th round pick. Browns contribution to the team 2 game starts 36 rushes for 126 yards, 16 receptions for 116 yards.

 

The trade for Jerry Hughes was initiated by the Colts GM who wanted the last first round pick of Bill Polian off the team and Whaley was just incredibly lucky that the Colts called him.

 

Wanna talk incredibly lucky? How about that Whaley offered CJ Spiller a decent offer to stay in Buffalo and like the fool that he is Spiller instead went to New Orleans... thank the good lord!

 

Wanna talk more good luck? Eagles HC Chip Kelly offering to trade LeSean McCoy to Buffalo in the first place. This worked out great because the team has such difficulty in finding star RB talent in the draft.

 

Skipping a lot of other things.

 

 

The Watkins trade in dealing away three draft picks, two number ones for a WR when the team still didn't have it's franchise QB!

 

If Whaley or his scouts actually knew what they were looking at in regards to college talent the Bills could have stayed at the #9 pick in 2014 and drafted all-pro LBer Anthony Barr, all-pro OT Taylor Lewan, all-pro WR Odel Beckham Jr, all-pro DT Aaron Donald, all-pro OG Zack Martin, all-pro LBer CJ Mosley, all-pro S Haha Clinton-Dix, all-pro CB Jason Verrett and then traded up in the second round for all-pro QB Derek Carr.

 

After the last four seasons of such ineptitude, I have no idea how or why the guy still has a job as an NFL GM.

 

Although, EJ certainly has been happy that Doug Whaley has kept his job all this time.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Nihilarian

[The Big Cat]

Rico was the first person to respond to this thread?

 

No kidding?

[Pbomb]

I also love how all buddy nix's bad moves get blamed on whaley too

[Funkycold]

Lets not forget trading 2 picks to Dalla to unload Matt Cassel, trading up in the 3rd round to draft TJ Graham, verifying that he scouted NC St and TJ was the guy he targeted? This yr drafting 2 guys that had injuries: Shaq, Listenbee, then a guy you knew would not even dress this yr in Cardel. I think we can all agree we are not the Pats, we can not afford luxury picks

[FireChan]

Broken back Chris Williams getting a boatload of money for 4 games!!!

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Here's Doug Whaley eye for talent for QBs List

Kevin Kolb

Ej Manual

Jeff Tual

McCown

Matt Cassell

Cardele Jones

 

Now that's a talent evaluator, lol. How can we trust him to find us a franchise QB. Blow it up fire everyone starting with Russ Brandon.

 

BTW he doesn't get credit for Tyrod that was Rex

Another thing saying we are in QB purgatory while letting Dak Prescott pass us by. What a complete jk.

[Pbomb]

I love how he doesnt get credit for any good or decent moves he makes either, it was someone elses idea. Harvin and ik were whaley but tyrod and incognito were rex. Makes sense, looks like the agendas and crusades against whaley are out in full force now that rex and tyrod are gone

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley.

 

For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more.

 

1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy)

2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays

3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins

4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead)

5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder

6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice

7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ)

 

 

 

if you get rid of the ej stuff. is that the best you can do? Fred was shot, Shaq is now fine, Percy was a cheap risk this time. Whaley isn't perfect but no GM is. If you keep comparing General managers against the non existent perfect one you will be disappointed

[OldTimer1960]

Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley.

 

For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more.

 

1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy)

2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays

3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins

4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead)

5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder

6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice

7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ)

 

Hard to say drafting Watkins was a mistake. When he has been healthy, he has been outstanding. No way to predict at draft time that Watkins would be plagued by injuries.

 

Karlos Williams was a 5th round pick who they got one year of very good production from before he self-destructed and Fred Jackson, though beloved here, was pretty much done when he left.

 

They didn't pay Percy Harvin much - if you want to kill Whaley for missing on a mid-tier FA, I guess you can.

 

I'll grant that EJ was a poor choice, but as you and others stated, the real damage was shying away from drafting other QBs after they took Manuel.

[ThE BiScUiT]

Anything can be skewed when taken out of context. For example are you also going to kill john Elway for having Trevor Siemen and Paxton Lynch as the only QBS on a Denver roster that is clearly a super bowl contender? How do you think they do with Tyrod under center this year? In my opinion they probably finish with 11 to 12 wins. Point being is that Whaley has tried to improve the position but it's not as easy as running to the store and picking up a new qb. Choices are limited...see over half the teams in the nfl. By no means do I think whaley has done an excellent job...but I do believe the roster has been upgraded significantly over his tenure. The only issue I think that is glaring is the lack of depth on both lines and possibly at saftey. I believe coaching and game management were the failures in 2016 and I was a rex guy. Even the play calling on offense has been suspect in my opinion ....particularly in the dolphins game ...it was clear to me that the staff did not understand situational football. Same with the Raiders game to some extent.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Lets not forget trading 2 picks to Dalla to unload Matt Cassel, trading up in the 3rd round to draft TJ Graham, verifying that he scouted NC St and TJ was the guy he targeted? This yr drafting 2 guys that had injuries: Shaq, Listenbee, then a guy you knew would not even dress this yr in Cardel. I think we can all agree we are not the Pats, we can not afford luxury picks

Graham was Buddy. They have a 5th from dallas this year

[Buffalo Boy]

I'm in take him or leave him mode with Whaley currently.

To beat a dead horse again, it is a factionalized organization that doesn't work together.

If Whaley and the coach were truly on the same page maybe it would make a difference but we now have two coaches in a row who seem to be at odds with him.

Who is at fault?

If we move on from Whaley, who do we bring in?

Are you ready to admit/ accept we are in full rebuild mode?

It would have to be done ASAP or we will be that much farther behind in picking from the pool of coaches out there.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Anything can be skewed when taken out of context. For example are you also going to kill john Elway for having Trevor Siemen and Paxton Lynch as the only QBS on a Denver roster that is clearly a super bowl contender? How do you think they do with Tyrod under center this year? In my opinion they probably finish with 11 to 12 wins. Point being is that Whaley has tried to improve the position but it's not as easy as running to the store and picking up a new qb. Choices are limited...see over half the teams in the nfl. By no means do I think whaley has done an excellent job...but I do believe the roster has been upgraded significantly over his tenure. The only issue I think that is glaring is the lack of depth on both lines and possibly at saftey. I believe coaching and game management were the failures in 2016 and I was a rex guy. Even the play calling on offense has been suspect in my opinion ....particularly in the dolphins game ...it was clear to me that the staff did not understand situational football. Same with the Raiders game to some extent.

I realize this is a major problem we keep comparing Whaley to these horrible Gms we had before he came here. That's why he seems to get a pass from most people. I was the same way but now I realize he's below average compared to other gms in the NFL.. He needs to be judged comparable to others in his profession. So far he's built a team full of misfits and quitters.

[OldTimer1960]

If that's all you have. I'm in good shape . I thought you were going to say draft Kelsay , schoebal ,maybin ,whitner or maybe pay oswilder 125 mil to sit the bench.... People are incredible too funny

 

I understand your point, but wanted to chime in for those that don't: while Whaley did not draft any of the players that you listed, Kelsay, Schoebel and Whitner were all very good, not great players. I never understood why Chris Kelsay and Aaron Schoebel took so much heat from fans. The thing that made people unfairly hate on Whitner was that they passed on Haloti Ngata to take Whitner - dumb move, but not Whitner's fault.

[MAJBobby]

Trading Sheppard for Hughes

Picking InCognito off trash heap

Trading Kiko for McCoy

Ronald Darby - granted looked alot better before this year

Tyrod Taylor

Letting Byrd Walk

Zach Brown

Lorenzo Alexander

Dustin Hopkins

Here's Doug Whaley eye for talent for QBs List

Kevin Kolb

Ej Manual

Jeff Tual

McCown

Matt Cassell

Cardele Jones

 

Now that's a talent evaluator, lol. How can we trust him to find us a franchise QB. Blow it up fire everyone starting with Russ Brandon.

 

BTW he doesn't get credit for Tyrod that was Rex

Another thing saying we are in QB purgatory while letting Dak Prescott pass us by. What a complete jk.

Yeah of course he doesnt get credit for Tyrod. You have to stay on narrative

[Formerly Allan in MD]

We did not give up "multiple" first round draft picks for Watkins. We EXCHANGED firsts with Cleveland (that's not giving up or losing one) and gave up one first plus a lower round pick.

 

Whaley's made some mistakes, such as banking on EJ based on one bowl game performance, but he's also made great trades (Shady, Hughes) and signed the likes of Alexander, who became a Pro Bowler here following a very average career. And what's wrong with the Gilleslee signing? I will be down on him if he breaks the bank on overrated Gilmore.

 

And what's with blaming Nix's moves on Whaley?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Trading Sheppard for Hughes

Picking InCognito off trash heap

Trading Kiko for McCoy

Ronald Darby - granted looked alot better before this year

Tyrod Taylor

Letting Byrd Walk

Zach Brown

Lorenzo Alexander

Dustin Hopkins

 

Yeah of course he doesnt get credit for Tyrod. You have to stay on narrative

Before your appearance Major, all I could think about was almost everyone on this thread has NEVER been a decision-maker.

[ALLEN1QB]

Wow I hope ownership reads this thread

[GG]

Trading Sheppard for Hughes

Picking InCognito off trash heap

Trading Kiko for McCoy

Ronald Darby - granted looked alot better before this year

Tyrod Taylor

Letting Byrd Walk

Zach Brown

Lorenzo Alexander

Dustin Hopkins

 

Yeah of course he doesnt get credit for Tyrod. You have to stay on narrative

I think the point of the post a few spots above is Whaley's good moves were mostly due to good fortune, not accumen. Grigson called him about Hughes. Kelly called him about McCoy, but he called McCoy about Brown. Do Bills get Tyrod or Richie without Rex?

 

His drafts are weak. The FAs are decent, but it's uncertain how much influence the coach had in bringing those players.

[MAJBobby]

I think the point of the post a few spots above is Whaley's good moves were mostly due to good fortune, not accumen. Grigson called him about Hughes. Kelly called him about McCoy, but he called McCoy about Brown. Do Bills get Tyrod or Richie without Rex?

 

His drafts are weak. The FAs are decent, but it's uncertain how much influence the coach had in bringing those players.

That is spin from someone pushing a narrative

 

When you try to dimish the successes because it hurts what you are trying tk say.

 

Fact is Whaley has been like any other GM in the NFL

[GG]

That is spin from someone pushing a narrative

 

When you try to dimish the successes because it hurts what you are trying tk say.

 

Fact is Whaley has been like any other GM in the NFL

He is what his record says. A middle of the road GM who's been helped by an owner's check book.

[MAJBobby]

He is what his record says. A middle of the road GM who's been helped by an owner's check book.

He is any GM. That what they all are right up until they find a franchise QB

 

And Doug is a .500 gm that has yet to pick his coach

Edited January 2, 2017 by MAJBobby

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

He is what his record says. A middle of the road GM who's been helped by an owner's check book.

So a .500 record then.

 

 

That is the most overused cliche in sports. Bill Walsh was 8-24 after 2 seasons. Was he what his record said at the time, or was he building something and part of the process was occuring. Not saying Whaley is Walsh.

Edited January 2, 2017 by horned dogs