Bye bye Tyrod

[Ohiostyle]

For the benefit of Tyrod...

 

The highest Greg Roman's offense has finished in passing attempts is 29th in the league. The highest in yards is 23rd.

 

However for whatever reason he was in the top 15 in points in 5 of 6 years with a group of limited QBs in Alex Smith, CK, and TT.

It's a strange playbook with probably way too many formations - and not enough of a route tree. We don't run slants, RB screens, Bubble screens, swing routes, wheel routes, drag routes... Everyone says its because Tyrod can't throw them, but neither did Smith or Kapernick. I think a lot of that is attributed to Greg Roman not building them into his passing scheme.

 

Now Smith plays in an offense that is predicated on legit all of those types of routes, and he's been very successful.

 

Smith is making a living off of slant routes, 5 yd dig routes.

[K-9]

Smith is making a living off of slant routes, 5 yd dig routes.

I think that's his point. He wasn't under Roman.

[PolishDave]

For the benefit of Tyrod...

 

The highest Greg Roman's offense has finished in passing attempts is 29th in the league. The highest in yards is 23rd.

 

However for whatever reason he was in the top 15 in points in 5 of 6 years with a group of limited QBs in Alex Smith, CK, and TT.

It's a strange playbook with probably way too many formations - and not enough of a route tree. We don't run slants, RB screens, Bubble screens, swing routes, wheel routes, drag routes... Everyone says its because Tyrod can't throw them, but neither did Smith or Kapernick. I think a lot of that is attributed to Greg Roman not building them into his passing scheme.

 

Ding ding. ding. Winner!

 

I wish more people would pay attention to this.

 

Just look at number of pass attempts compared to the league and it is plain as day. And then look at number of rushing attempts.

 

And then look at those stats over the entirety of Roman's offensive schemes. Plain as freaking day.

 

good post

[PromoTheRobot]

Oh no. How will we ever make it 8-8 without him ?

8-8 will look like a dream when Mike Glennon is behind center.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Keep ragging on Romans offense, even with the #1 rush offense running the ball all the time, the All22 shows there were WR/TE running free and open all over the field every freaking week on the pass plays that were called and the QB for whatever reason didn't even attempt to get them the ball. The failures in the pass game are solely on the QB this year, nobody else. Ranked 31st because he sucks, whole lot of room for improvement at the QB position. Your kidding yourself if you think other wise.

 

I didn't rag on Roman's offense. I mentioned that he was top 15 in scoring in 5 of 6 years. The one year he wasn't was the year Harbaugh left SF - and the team fell apart. But Alex Smith having a sack rate of 9.9% in 2012 before he was benched is a tad alarming isnt it? It was 9% in 2011 as well (this year its 5.5%). He was completing 70% of his passes at the time.

 

I get that there are people running deep open on some of these plays - but I don't know the name of the play or the concept. You're kidding yourself if you think you do. I also have no idea what he's coached to do in a given situation. His pocket awareness could definitely use improvement however.

 

He's had some really crappy games for us, and had some really good games. I'd like to see an offense that has some smart play designs - bubble screens to guys like sammy and shady. Slant routes to a slot receiver. These are super high % plays that are very easy to read pre-snap. You also keep a team on their heels more so you can punch them harder with the running game.

 

I know if Lynn is the guy - hes going to go full in on a power running scheme. I just hope he includes some plays to get Watkins more involved (to the tune of like 100 catches).

[vincec]

For the benefit of Tyrod...

 

The highest Greg Roman's offense has finished in passing attempts is 29th in the league. The highest in yards is 23rd.

 

However for whatever reason he was in the top 15 in points in 5 of 6 years with a group of limited QBs in Alex Smith, CK, and TT.

It's a strange playbook with probably way too many formations - and not enough of a route tree. We don't run slants, RB screens, Bubble screens, swing routes, wheel routes, drag routes... Everyone says its because Tyrod can't throw them, but neither did Smith or Kapernick. I think a lot of that is attributed to Greg Roman not building them into his passing scheme.

 

Now Smith plays in an offense that is predicated on legit all of those types of routes, and he's been very successful.

Phil Simms implied this during the Steelers game, basically saying that the Bills passing offense was too simplistic and not practiced enough to perform at a high level.

 

It does make sense. You can only practice so much during the week and they have a very complex running game to work on. OTOH, the goal is winning and SF did come within a few plays of winning the Super Bowl running it so the jury is still out IMO.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Phil Simms implied this during the Steelers game, basically saying that the Bills passing offense was too simplistic and not practiced enough to perform at a high level.

 

It does make sense. You can only practice so much during the week and they have a very complex running game to work on. OTOH, the goal is winning and SF did come within a few plays of winning the Super Bowl running it so the jury is still out IMO.

 

How many rub routes did we run this year in the red zone... on 3rd and 3... anything like that? How many times did we run a screen when it was NOT 3rd and long (and the other team suspects it)? How many bubble screens did we throw to Sammy? I mean - how many plays do we even run under center?

 

Its just in/out/dig/fly. Thats it - no options. No coverage reads. We're completely opposite on offense and defense. Defense is checking and switching coverage, and the offense just calls a play and runs it. There's pros and cons to each, but when you call a bad play, and know its a bad play, and have no way of checking out of it. You're in trouble.

[Mark Vader]

I honestly believed this wouldn't happen, and really it hasn't happened yet. Mostly media speculation. But the signs sure point that way.

I didn't think so either. I am very disappointed. If they decide to move on from Tyrod, so be it.

We've seen this happen to often.

 

 

Oh no. How will we ever make it 8-8 without him ?

Sarcasm aside, I see your point.

 

I wanted Tyrod to succeed, as I think many Bills fans did. Nothing wrong with that.

 

If the Bills choose to move on from Tyrod Taylor, then they better find a player who can be a legitimate starter in the league.

 

We can not go into next season with E.J. Manuel, Cardale Jones and a rookie QB.

[BuffaloFan68]

If the Bills let Tyrod walk & sign EJ - I'm fine with it. Overall I feel EJ has a higher QB ceiling. Jmho

Go Bills!!!!!

[Big Gun]

Phil Simms implied this during the Steelers game, basically saying that the Bills passing offense was too simplistic and not practiced enough to perform at a high level.

 

It does make sense. You can only practice so much during the week and they have a very complex running game to work on. OTOH, the goal is winning and SF did come within a few plays of winning the Super Bowl running it so the jury is still out IMO.

In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year.

[TANK2]

2 seasons. 26th and 31st in passing.

 

What else do you wannna see ?

League record for least turnovers by an offense and a jump from 7 to 6 in total points scored. Would also like to see him get to 600 yards rushing or is he already there? Didnt have time to look that up. Some people cant see the forest through the trees. Huge mistake if they let him go with no legit replacement which I dont see them having by March, April, May, June, July, or August, Sept, Oct, Nov, or Dec for that matter. Hes not perfect but by far the best weve had in a long long time. And now were gonna let him walk. Couldnt be a more Billsy move. A new system on defense that the pothead can understand(see the ball Marcell, go get it) and we got a legit shot at an 11 win season next year with some solid coaching. Edited December 31, 2016 by TANK2

[CardinalScotts]

Polian on ESPN right now saying Taylors contract is untenable.

would rank #22 on starting qb's Bill- your out of touch with the NFL today Polian which is why the Colts dumped you 7 years ago

[PolishDave]

In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year.

 

Elway's offense when he was QB was simplified. Jim Kelly's offense was dumbed down too. They simplified it and it started kicking ass because it was much easier for everyone to be on the same page and just outplay their opponent.

 

I think they ought to simplify Roman's offense even more.

 

Dummy QB my ass. I used to think you were reasonable.

Edited December 31, 2016 by PolishDave

[TANK2]

would rank #22 on starting qb's Bill- your out of touch with the NFL today Polian which is why the Colts dumped you 7 years ago

Have to agree. Dont need this guy coming back to Buffalo in any sort of advisory role.

Keep ragging on Romans offense, even with the #1 rush offense running the ball all the time, the All22 shows there were WR/TE running free and open all over the field every freaking week on the pass plays that were called and the QB for whatever reason didn't even attempt to get them the ball. The failures in the pass game are solely on the QB this year, nobody else. Ranked 31st because he sucks, whole lot of room for improvement at the QB position. Your kidding yourself if you think other wise.

Could also get alot worse at qb. Dont kid yourself. Watch the Jacksonville game from last year. Edited December 31, 2016 by TANK2

[vincec]

In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year.

Lynn said that they can't work on the issues Tyrod has during the season, because they're trying to win. So they cater the offense to what the players do well and don't do the other things much. However, he seemed optimistic about the possibility of Tyrod developing into a more complete and consistent passer in the offseason.

[Big Gun]

 

Elway's offense when he was QB was simplified. Jim Kelly's offense was dumbed down too. They simplified it and it started kicking ass because it was much easier for everyone to be on the same page and just outplay their opponent.

 

I think they ought to simplify Roman's offense even more.

 

Dummy QB my ass. I used to think you were reasonable.

Why because the dumb QB you support still can't understand it? I guess similar minds think alike eh!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year.

 

 

Elway's offense when he was QB was simplified. Jim Kelly's offense was dumbed down too. They simplified it and it started kicking ass because it was much easier for everyone to be on the same page and just outplay their opponent.

 

I think they ought to simplify Roman's offense even more.

 

Dummy QB my ass. I used to think you were reasonable.

 

I don't think it's particularly complex from a route concept perspective. Lynn said instead of preparing 40-50 plays per week they would prepare 20-30, and utilize them out of multiple formations. The issue was lining up in formation, and getting to the line quicker so we could execute pre-snap motions. This was as much for the running game as the passing game. Play calls were coming in too late, and our team was having issues lining up - causing penalties and miscommunication.

Edited December 31, 2016 by dneveu

[colin]

So did anyone besides me think rex wasnt fired until the d took a sheet vs miami?

 

Given that they didn't bench tyrod then, even with the injury clause, i figure miami was the last shot for rex to save his butt, and 200 yards to ajai, and losing to the back up, he was cooked.

[VanCity]

Personally, I think something like ANY/A from Profootball reference is a better indicator of production. Just measuring total yards doesn't really tell you everything, since two equally talented QBs could be ranked different depending on play calling.

 

ANY/A rankings have Tyrod at 9th and 19th, averaging out to just about average. Which, the eye test tells me lines up. This year is down, imo, partially due to missing WRs for multiple games, especially deep threats.

 

Do I think Tyrod is a guy who can carry a bad defense? No. Do I think he is a guy that can win with an average to good defense? Yes.

 

We have talent on the defensive side (at least I think so). If our new DC can convince the FO that the defense will improve, I could see Tyrod coming back.

I am on board 100% with this philosophy. Look at the available options. Could Tyrod have us in the playoffs had our defense been pass-able this season? Absolutely. The O scored a lot of points and he, despite his passing numbers, was a big part of that. The Bills lost when he had to try and come back from deficits every week and he is just not the Stafford/Ryan/Rodgers kinda QB that can pass a squad back into the game, but let's not pretend that he didn't have the O moving the chains in a lot of games with his legs. He's a unique proposition. Not the answer, but not the true question on this team. That lies 100% on the defense.

[yungmack]

Oh no. How will we ever make it 8-8 without him ?

With even a top half of the league D, this year's record would have been at least 10 wins. Would that be enough success for you to want Taylor back? If not, what would it take for you and others of your ilk to finally realize that, at least this year, the problem was the D, not the O? Not claiming he'll ever attain "greatness," just asking for reality-based judgments.

[Utah John]

TT isn't the problem. Marcel Dareus is the problem. Huge contract eating cap space, too lazy or stupid to learn the defense, too selfish or undisciplined to not smoke weed, a good player but not like you should expect from the #3 overall.

 

The Bills want to keep their options open on TT, and they should do exactly that. I think he'll be back next year because unless we can swing a Dareus plus TT trade for a really good QB, there's no way the Bills can upgrade at QB. Even that trade would be tough for the other team to handle because of the balloon in TT's contract plus Dareus's ridiculous contract.

 

The Bills have a chance to set an NFL record for fewest turnovers. So they're going to play EJ. Just sayin'. I would rather see Cardale Jones to get an idea if he's grasping things. Big arm and not afraid to use it.

[BrooklynBills]

With even a top half of the league D, this year's record would have been at least 10 wins. Would that be enough success for you to want Taylor back? If not, what would it take for you and others of your ilk to finally realize that, at least this year, the problem was the D, not the O? Not claiming he'll ever attain "greatness," just asking for reality-based judgments.

If the D was great, we'd probably be going to the playoffs as wild card fodder for the teams actually contending for the SUPER BOWL-

 

Remember the Super Bowl? The thing NFL teams are actually trying to win. It's not about just getting into the playoffs. And that kind of thinking by management will only keep us further from winning a championship here.

[yungmack]

If the D was great, we'd probably be going to the playoffs as wild card fodder for the teams actually contending for the SUPER BOWL-

Remember the Super Bowl? The thing NFL teams are actually trying to win. It's not about just getting into the playoffs. And that kind of thinking by management will only keep us further from winning a championship here.

Certainly not claiming this is a SB team, just pointing out that the poster's assumption that the Bills 8-8 record is because of Taylor is just plain wrong.

 

BTB, thirty teams fail to make the SB. I don't regard all of them as mediocre flops. And even if the Bills only made it to the wildcard round, there to be defeated, you know many around here would take that as a sign of the arrow pointing in the right direction. And Rex would still have a job.

Edited December 31, 2016 by yungmack

[USABuffaloFan]

Tyrod doesn't come across as a leader. There is almost no passion from him. Doesn't seem to have any relationship with his o-line. EJ took his lineman out. One day I think EJ will lead a team again, Tyrod is one knee injury, slowing him down, from being in this league. He is not a pocket passer, doesn't know how to step up and throw, Flutie at least tried.

[John from Riverside]

So did anyone besides me think rex wasnt fired until the d took a sheet vs miami?

 

Given that they didn't bench tyrod then, even with the injury clause, i figure miami was the last shot for rex to save his butt, and 200 yards to ajai, and losing to the back up, he was cooked.

That is my feeling as well

Tyrod doesn't come across as a leader. There is almost no passion from him. Doesn't seem to have any relationship with his o-line. EJ took his lineman out. One day I think EJ will lead a team again, Tyrod is one knee injury, slowing him down, from being in this league. He is not a pocket passer, doesn't know how to step up and throw, Flutie at least tried.

You are out of your damn mind....AND blind

[Ohiostyle]

Certainly not claiming this is a SB team, just pointing out that the poster's assumption that the Bills 8-8 record is because of Taylor is just plain wrong.

 

BTB, thirty teams fail to make the SB. I don't regard all of them as mediocre flops. And even if the Bills only made it to the wildcard round, there to be defeated, you know many around here would take that as a sign of the arrow pointing in the right direction. And Rex would still have a job.

 

continuity, especially at the qb position goes a long way toward this. I just don't feel TT has performed poorly enough to disrupt that. Finding QB's who perform even at his level is hard to find. Waiting on the next Kelly or Brady or whatever could lead to the next 20 years being filled with more awfulness. Retreads, drafting one every two years is a lottery heavily weighted against you. TT can win with a solid D and better weapons, and protection!

[yungmack]

continuity, especially at the qb position goes a long way toward this. I just don't feel TT has performed poorly enough to disrupt that. Finding QB's who perform even at his level is hard to find. Waiting on the next Kelly or Brady or whatever could lead to the next 20 years being filled with more awfulness. Retreads, drafting one every two years is a lottery heavily weighted against you. TT can win with a solid D and better weapons, and protection!

Ah, sanity.

[Mr. WEO]

Tyrod doesn't come across as a leader. There is almost no passion from him. Doesn't seem to have any relationship with his o-line. EJ took his lineman out. One day I think EJ will lead a team again, Tyrod is one knee injury, slowing him down, from being in this league. He is not a pocket passer, doesn't know how to step up and throw, Flutie at least tried.

 

 

Who is the "passionate leader" on this team? There is none.

 

No one cares that EJ took his guys out for a meal. They wouldn't want him starting every week.

 

Claiming TT is not a leader and comparing him to the afterthought of a backup Qb in that regard is beyond ridiculous.

[Billschinatown]

What's the over/under on the number of EJ picks thrown before he is pulled for Cardale?

 

5 TD's 500 yards

This is the beginning of the EJ Manuel super bowl era boys

[Ohiostyle]

 

5 TD's 500 yards

This is the beginning of the EJ Manuel super bowl era boys

 

I'm on board with this

[VanCity]

 

I'm on board with this

I'm rolling with him in the final (stupid week 17 final!) of one of my fantasy leagues over Rivers. I gotta believe something good is going to happen here.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

So did anyone besides me think rex wasnt fired until the d took a sheet vs miami?

 

Given that they didn't bench tyrod then, even with the injury clause, i figure miami was the last shot for rex to save his butt, and 200 yards to ajai, and losing to the back up, he was cooked.

 

That's exactly what I thought - I think the Pegulas genuinely do value continuity and consistency, and given signs of trending in the right direction, they would have stayed the course with Rex. I genuinely thought if the team had looked sharp and played hard the last 2 games, Rex would have been given another year.

 

I thought the press "leak" about wanting to bench Tyrod was evidence of that, because Tyrod he was still playing. If there had been a disagreement between the bean counters (Brandon's guys), the GM, and Rex (which I can believe, given the rumors), the Pegulas clearly sided with Rex on the Tyrod issue, which there would be no reason for them to do if they'd made up their mind he was gone.

 

I'm not even sure the 200 yds to Ajayi or the punt on 4th down did it. I think it was the 10 men on the field, because it's such show of coaching/game management incompetence and at that point the Pegulas were, "we've seen all we need to see of this stuff. We gave him everything he wanted in the way of assistants, so that isn't it. It's clearly just not going away while Rex is driving the bus so hand over the keys, guy".

 

I also think it's the reason why we won't have a problem attracting coaches. "Why did you can Rex's ass after only 2 years?" "Just make sure there's 11 guys ON the field, and show competent game management, 'kay?" "Okay, got it"

[Ohiostyle]

I'm rolling with him in the final (stupid week 17 final!) of one of my fantasy leagues over Rivers. I gotta believe something good is going to happen here.

 

Ouch, things have become desperate for you. I can't image a world where I start EJ in FF

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Tyrod doesn't come across as a leader. There is almost no passion from him. Doesn't seem to have any relationship with his o-line. EJ took his lineman out. One day I think EJ will lead a team again, Tyrod is one knee injury, slowing him down, from being in this league. He is not a pocket passer, doesn't know how to step up and throw, Flutie at least tried.

Ouch! Can't say my eyes agree with this about Taylor.

Edited January 1, 2017 by horned dogs

[Big Gun]

 

Ouch, things have become desperate for you. I can't image a world where I start EJ in FF

I know, right. Ouch!