billsfan_34 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 We have the least space but we have the most players under contract too. I'd rather be in our position than about 5 or 6 others in the league. We need to make some tough decisions this off-season but they are all within the realm of normal cap management. The Clay contract is a bit of a sickener though. So is McCoys - 5 years 25 mil for a RB with 7 years in the league. And M. Williams really stings too right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) We went all in...to make the playoffs. Oops. Â Sadly true. Not really: Â http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/183724-spotrac-manage-roster-tool-2016-bills-salary-cap/ Â Yikes, you released the Williams triplets?!?!?! We have the least space but we have the most players under contract too. I'd rather be in our position than about 5 or 6 others in the league. We need to make some tough decisions this off-season but they are all within the realm of normal cap management. The Clay contract is a bit of a sickener though. Â Good point. Edited February 20, 2016 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Â Sadly true. Â Yikes, you released the Williams triplets?!?!?! Â Good point. Â When you have the most players under contract and are over the cap and will have to release players to get under and create cap space it means absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Â When you have the most players under contract and are over the cap and will have to release players to get under and create cap space it means absolutely nothing. Right, but when teams are in similar spending but have less talent signed one would argue that's a worse situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 We can not be that bad? Rams dumped a lot players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 When we start cutting a number of good contributing players, you can worry. Right now we're talking about resigning our good players. We're fine as there is so much moving of money at this time of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Shouldn't we be trying to win the Super Bowl? This team is so backwards need to make the playoffs in order to win the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 So is McCoys - 5 years 25 mil for a RB with 7 years in the league. And M. Williams really stings too right now. Â I don't think the McCoy deal is that bad, it is commensurate with what the other top backs in the league no longer on rookie contracts are on. I know some people would prefer we didn't pay a top 5 back and would go to the cheap rookie and running back by committee approaches but if you don't have a Quarterback and the Bills had no idea when they made the deal whether they had anything at all there then paying a top running back like a top running back is not an unusual, strange or even wrong move. 2017 is the one year where McCoy pinches a little bit on the cap given the hit and the difficulty in getting out from under the hit. But he is a top class running back on a contract that is what top class running backs get paid. Now it might hurt more I suppose depending on the rules if he gets suspended or even imprisoned. Â The one that hurts is Clay. It is now the 6th biggest tight end contract in total value. That might slightly overvalue him but when you look at the scheme fit for Roman it would be defensible. What makes the Clay contract so totally insane and the very opposite of sensible management is the guaranteed money. His contract is 64.5% guaranteed. SIXTY FOUR and a half percent guaranteed..... for a Tight End. Wow. I don't suppose to know what the real truth behind the knee situation is, but even if that is massively fabricated.... 64.5 guaranteed for a TE is ludicrous. To put it in a little bit perspective it is HIGHER as a percentage than any Quarterback not playing on a 1st round rookie contract. That is how mental it is. That is why it is such a hard contract to get out from under at any stage. Â The McCoy deal is a big contract in a league that people perceive to have devalued the running back position (we had a thread a couple of weeks ago where it is safe to say there was a fair argument on both sides about whether that perceived devaluation in fact is true - I don't believe it is) but it is a very manageable contract and totally in line with the rest of the league. The Clay deal is out of sync with anything anyone else was or is doing and is a very tough deal for the Bills to get out of and it is that deal if any who now looks a bit like a millstone around our necks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Â I don't think the McCoy deal is that bad, it is commensurate with what the other top backs in the league no longer on rookie contracts are on. I know some people would prefer we didn't pay a top 5 back and would go to the cheap rookie and running back by committee approaches but if you don't have a Quarterback and the Bills had no idea when they made the deal whether they had anything at all there then paying a top running back like a top running back is not an unusual, strange or even wrong move. 2017 is the one year where McCoy pinches a little bit on the cap given the hit and the difficulty in getting out from under the hit. But he is a top class running back on a contract that is what top class running backs get paid. Now it might hurt more I suppose depending on the rules if he gets suspended or even imprisoned. Â The one that hurts is Clay. It is now the 6th biggest tight end contract in total value. That might slightly overvalue him but when you look at the scheme fit for Roman it would be defensible. What makes the Clay contract so totally insane and the very opposite of sensible management is the guaranteed money. His contract is 64.5% guaranteed. SIXTY FOUR and a half percent guaranteed..... for a Tight End. Wow. I don't suppose to know what the real truth behind the knee situation is, but even if that is massively fabricated.... 64.5 guaranteed for a TE is ludicrous. To put it in a little bit perspective it is HIGHER as a percentage than any Quarterback not playing on a 1st round rookie contract. That is how mental it is. That is why it is such a hard contract to get out from under at any stage. Â The McCoy deal is a big contract in a league that people perceive to have devalued the running back position (we had a thread a couple of weeks ago where it is safe to say there was a fair argument on both sides about whether that perceived devaluation in fact is true - I don't believe it is) but it is a very manageable contract and totally in line with the rest of the league. The Clay deal is out of sync with anything anyone else was or is doing and is a very tough deal for the Bills to get out of and it is that deal if any who now looks a bit like a millstone around our necks. For me it's the whole platter of contracts that equates to concern. Looking at the total picture do we have any players who's contracts are desirable? Excluding rookie contracts of course. Â Most good organizations rework rookie deals before their stud players hit FA thus reducing the overall impact of the players contract. Give a little to get a little is how I look at it. Once again this year we have a marquee position (LT) poised to negotiate a huge deal or skip town. Next year it will be Gilmore and or Taylor. Is all of this avoidable? No, but the blow could be lessened that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Here are my six moves freeing up 20,650,000  Putting cap space at 12,684,214  Release Mario Williams. Saving 12,900,000  Restructure Kyle Williams. Saving 2,507,500  Restructure Aaron Williams. Saving 1,210,000  Restructure Corey Graham. Saving 1,210,000  Release Dan Carpender. Saving 1,762,000  Release Boobie  I could see them letting go Corey Graham Rex put him on blast for missing a tackle during the season. all this restructuring hurts you down the line. K.Williams will not be retructured....neither will Corey Graham... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I think we have some good deals. The Dareus deal is a good deal... less than Suh, less than Von Miller will get... top D-linemen getting $100m is going to become a regular occurrence and as long as he isn't being used as a space eater or to drop into coverage by our defensive genius then Dareus is worth every penny. Â The Hughes deal was a good one for the Bills as well where his cap hit escalated as the Mario deal came off the books. The Aaron Williams deal is a very sensible deal pitched at the right level too and I have already explained why I am comfortable with the McCoy deal. Â Are there other deals that are less good? Yes - the Wood deal is still too big for me despite him bouncing back this year, the Felton contract looks big for how much we used him and the likes of McKelvin, Graham and Lawson are probably a little overpaid now for their contributions but those are all deals that are pretty easy to get out of if the players won't take a bit of a cut - it would cost us less than $2m in dead cap to cut McKelvin and Lawson. Â The two terrible deals that the Bills did last offseason that hurt for my money are Harvin (totally overrated player complete waste of time could have rolled over the cap space and ends up costing us some dead money in this particularly tight salary cap year) and Clay who is a good player and a very good fit for the offense but the % guaranteed is simply insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I think we have some good deals. The Dareus deal is a good deal... less than Suh, less than Von Miller will get... top D-linemen getting $100m is going to become a regular occurrence and as long as he isn't being used as a space eater or to drop into coverage by our defensive genius then Dareus is worth every penny. Â The Hughes deal was a good one for the Bills as well where his cap hit escalated as the Mario deal came off the books. The Aaron Williams deal is a very sensible deal pitched at the right level too and I have already explained why I am comfortable with the McCoy deal. Â Are there other deals that are less good? Yes - the Wood deal is still too big for me despite him bouncing back this year, the Felton contract looks big for how much we used him and the likes of McKelvin, Graham and Lawson are probably a little overpaid now for their contributions but those are all deals that are pretty easy to get out of if the players won't take a bit of a cut - it would cost us less than $2m in dead cap to cut McKelvin and Lawson. Â The two terrible deals that the Bills did last offseason that hurt for my money are Harvin (totally overrated player complete waste of time could have rolled over the cap space and ends up costing us some dead money in this particularly tight salary cap year) and Clay who is a good player and a very good fit for the offense but the % guaranteed is simply insane. Â Yeah. The guaranteed money was stupidly insane. To put it in context he makes DOUBLE, yes DOUBLE the guaranteed money compared to Rob Gronkowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 While I appreciate the numbers and slander from some, the point was more about those responsible and the end result it's yielded the team. Â That, and how it makes those writing the checks feel. Â Yes, "worst" could be a matter of perception. It's been said that way on a few sites. Let's just say, not good or bad. Would that appease? Â I feel like the Bills are the movie "money pit". Keep spending money for everything to be done in "two weeks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Did the other cap thread close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Â Yeah. The guaranteed money was stupidly insane. To put it in context he makes DOUBLE, yes DOUBLE the guaranteed money compared to Rob Gronkowski. Well, Gronks at time of signing was 13.17m and clays was 13m, but yes, this years bonus and salary are nearing guaranteed status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Hey now...not everyone here was smart enough to attend Cornell or can afford it, I had a scholarship to Cornell in late 70's but scholarship was not enough with cost of tuition and board then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Shouldn't we be trying to win the Super Bowl? This team is so backwards  Nah. It's all about selling the hard work that's going into the next draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 need to make the playoffs in order to win the Super Bowl. so thats the trick ! I sure hope Leo and Graham and Lawson are willing to work with Overdorf . Possibly Eric Wood MUST get Glenn and Cogs signed up and secured. Bradham is likely going to get an offer he cannot refuse. Boobie is gone I might guess. A Williams is a big ? for me. and at this point Bills need to get ducks in rows for Gilmore and hopefully Taylor. It looks challenging to me. But i did not go to College , much less Cornell ha !! except for keggers and chicks so cap management is hardly something i can speak to. I just have my hopes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 or can afford it, I had a scholarship to Cornell in late 70's but scholarship was not enough with cost of tuition and board then. It was a joke to a poster that I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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