thurst44 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The Bills have a slightly above average age team, with an average talent level. There are almost no players with playoff experience on the roster, so no one really knows how they would perform if they actually make the playoffs. This is Whaley's seventh offseason with the team. If he hadn't followed a series of very very bad GM's people would think his performance was pretty bad. But Bills fans persist in a number of myths. 1. LeSean McCoy is a top 3 back. He is not, he ran for a little over 800 yards at 4.4 yards per carry in 2016. Not awful, but not elite. There is a baseball quote from Babe Ruth "Yesterdays home runs don't win today's games". What ever McCoy's history or potential, in terms of actual production he is wasting valuable cap space. 2. Charles Clay is elite. Again five hundred yards and a couple of touchdowns is not elite performance. Highest paid TE in the leauge in 2015. Again wasted cap space. 3. Cutting Mario Williams doesn't hurt the team. Mario under performed his contract, but he is still one of the better defensive players on the team. The Bills will be worse without him. 4. Kyle Williams and Aaron Williams will return to form. This is possible, but based on their ages, types of injuries and the history of the NFL, it will be really lucky if both players return to form. If they don't and Mario is cut, then only three of Nix defenders remain, Hughes, Dareus and Gilmore. The other defenders, other than Darby, added by Whaley are all dime a dozen players, that don't make the Bills better than anyone else. There is no reason to expect the Bills defense to improve this year. Anything is possible but the arrow is pointing down here. 5. The Bills are set at QB. Again maybe, but the eagles were set with Nick Foles, the Redskins with RGIII and the niners with C. Kaepernick (all of whom made the playoffs), and then they weren't. Results on this are still out. So, you are a sage who knows Mario WILL return to form, but Aaron Williams WILL NOT return to form. And ages? Aaron Williams is 25, fercrissake. That is some Jerry Sullivan-esque worth twisted negativity. You also KNOW that McCoy is definitely done. If you match him up with elite RBs from now and from history, he actually fares pretty well in terms of yards and carries, and look at seasons that Lynch and Peterson have had around 30. He was an elite, top 3 back as of last year. Some RBs come back, some don't. As for dime-a-dozen players, Preston Brown has had one excellent season and one disastrous, but it's clearly the bad season which defines him after two years in the NFL. You rail against people for being fans and believing and for being blindly sure, then make your own assumptions as truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 McCoy rushed for the 8th most yards in the NFL last year despite missing 3 games. To say he's done is simply wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I had forgotten about the 51 rule though still think it's smart of Whaley to have 67 players locked up under contract. The Bills have a slightly above average age team, with an average talent level. There are almost no players with playoff experience on the roster, so no one really knows how they would perform if they actually make the playoffs. This is Whaley's seventh offseason with the team. If he hadn't followed a series of very very bad GM's people would think his performance was pretty bad. But Bills fans persist in a number of myths. 1. LeSean McCoy is a top 3 back. He is not, he ran for a little over 800 yards at 4.4 yards per carry in 2016. Not awful, but not elite. There is a baseball quote from Babe Ruth "Yesterdays home runs don't win today's games". What ever McCoy's history or potential, in terms of actual production he is wasting valuable cap space. 2. Charles Clay is elite. Again five hundred yards and a couple of touchdowns is not elite performance. Highest paid TE in the leauge in 2015. Again wasted cap space. 3. Cutting Mario Williams doesn't hurt the team. Mario under performed his contract, but he is still one of the better defensive players on the team. The Bills will be worse without him. 4. Kyle Williams and Aaron Williams will return to form. This is possible, but based on their ages, types of injuries and the history of the NFL, it will be really lucky if both players return to form. If they don't and Mario is cut, then only three of Nix defenders remain, Hughes, Dareus and Gilmore. The other defenders, other than Darby, added by Whaley are all dime a dozen players, that don't make the Bills better than anyone else. There is no reason to expect the Bills defense to improve this year. Anything is possible but the arrow is pointing down here. 5. The Bills are set at QB. Again maybe, but the eagles were set with Nick Foles, the Redskins with RGIII and the niners with C. Kaepernick (all of whom made the playoffs), and then they weren't. Results on this are still out. Saying the Bills will be worse without Super Mario is highly speculative. If he plays in 2016 like he did in '15, the Bills will be better off without him. He wasn't productive last season and at least a couple of his fellow players were unhappy with his effort. In other words, he was bad for team morale. Rex still runs the D so I personally wouldn't expect Super Mario to play any differently this season. And that makes him expendable. He didn't come close to earning his salary last year. Edited February 21, 2016 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 McCoy rushed for the 8th most yards in the NFL last year despite missing 3 games. To say he's done is simply wrong And in the healthy run in the middle didnt he manage 7 consecutive games of 100 yards from scrimmage? Or am I supposed to discount receiving yards because they don't fit the narrative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 And in the healthy run in the middle didnt he manage 7 consecutive games of 100 yards from scrimmage? Or am I supposed to discount receiving yards because they don't fit the narrative?Isn't it amazing how short some's memories are? McCoy was really good last year when healthy. He's a dynamic back that makes plays that only a couple of backs in the league are capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I had forgotten about the 51 rule though still think it's smart of Whaley to have 67 players locked up under contract. Saying the Bills will be worse without Super Mario is highly speculative. If he plays in 2016 like he did in '15, the Bills will be better off without him. He wasn't productive last season and at least a couple of his fellow players were unhappy with his effort. In other words, he was bad for team morale. Rex still runs the D so I personally wouldn't expect Super Mario to play any differently this season. And that makes him expendable. He didn't come close to earning his salary last year. Why do you think it's smart of Whaley to have so many players under contract at this time? Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's dumb or necessarily a bad move or anything. I just don't see any real advantage. As for Mario, if Rex isn't going anywhere anytime soon and he isn't going to utilize him properly then Whaley might as well release him. The individual defensive front seven players - as well as the the defense as a whole - had huge drop offs in 2016. If it was just Mario then I'd put the blame on him, but it was everyone. The problem was scheme. The Bills will lose a substantial amount of talent when Mario is released, even if they weren't bothering to utilize it. Edited February 21, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Isn't it amazing how short some's memories are? McCoy was really good last year when healthy. He's a dynamic back that makes plays that only a couple of backs in the league are capable of. And highly underrated as a blitz pickup RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The Bills have a slightly above average age team, with an average talent level. There are almost no players with playoff experience on the roster, so no one really knows how they would perform if they actually make the playoffs. This is Whaley's seventh offseason with the team. If he hadn't followed a series of very very bad GM's people would think his performance was pretty bad. But Bills fans persist in a number of myths. No No No 1. LeSean McCoy is a top 3 back. He is not, he ran for a little over 800 yards at 4.4 yards per carry in 2016. Not awful, but not elite. There is a baseball quote from Babe Ruth "Yesterdays home runs don't win today's games". What ever McCoy's history or potential, in terms of actual production he is wasting valuable cap space. A top 3 back? Probably not....but your really going to base your assessment off of ONE injury plagued season? 2. Charles Clay is elite. Again five hundred yards and a couple of touchdowns is not elite performance. Highest paid TE in the leauge in 2015. Again wasted cap space. You dont have a clue of what the TE position is about.....its not just TDs and yards....it is how versitile they are in the offense.....and completely ignoring the poison pill contract he was given to get him away from Miami 3. Cutting Mario Williams doesn't hurt the team. Mario under performed his contract, but he is still one of the better defensive players on the team. The Bills will be worse without him. I find it interesting how you hold one year against Shady but you wont do it against Mario "takes 2 steps and stops" 4. Kyle Williams and Aaron Williams will return to form. This is possible, but based on their ages, types of injuries and the history of the NFL, it will be really lucky if both players return to form. If they don't and Mario is cut, then only three of Nix defenders remain, Hughes, Dareus and Gilmore. The other defenders, other than Darby, added by Whaley are all dime a dozen players, that don't make the Bills better than anyone else. There is no reason to expect the Bills defense to improve this year. Anything is possible but the arrow is pointing down here. Unknown and possible cap cuts 5. The Bills are set at QB. Again maybe, but the eagles were set with Nick Foles, the Redskins with RGIII and the niners with C. Kaepernick (all of whom made the playoffs), and then they weren't. Results on this are still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 McCoy rushed for the 8th most yards in the NFL last year despite missing 3 games. To say he's done is simply wrong By default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 By default. By default, yes, because running for more yards than all but 7 other players by default makes you the 8th player in the rushing list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 By default, yes, because running for more yards than all but 7 other players by default makes you the 8th player in the rushing list. Well, I was referring more to the 3 other top 10 backs who were hurt virtually all season. Combined with the fact that McCoy actually only had the 12th most rushing yards in the NFL, his 2015 campaign was far from a resounding success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well, I was referring more to the 3 other top 10 backs who were hurt virtually all season. Combined with the fact that McCoy actually only had the 12th most rushing yards in the NFL, his 2015 campaign was far from a resounding success. It all depends on how you want to look at it.....you could also easily say if he wasnt dealing with a hamstring all year his productivity projected high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well, I was referring more to the 3 other top 10 backs who were hurt virtually all season. Combined with the fact that McCoy actually only had the 12th most rushing yards in the NFL, his 2015 campaign was far from a resounding success. It still doesn't make it by default. It would be by default if only 7 others had tried. The fact that some other expected top backs underperformed due to injury or poor play does not make McCoy's performance a performance by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Can't we extend Gilmore and lower his cap hit from the current 5th year price? I don't really remember how that works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Can't we extend Gilmore and lower his cap hit from the current 5th year price? I don't really remember how that works Yep. Not my much given the deal he will want but I reckon you can get it down to around $8.5mill in 2016 or thereabouts without doing too much damage in future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Every year there are teams in the NFL that spend well over $100 million for players salaries and they don't win more than a few games. So goes the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) It still doesn't make it by default. It would be by default if only 7 others had tried. The fact that some other expected top backs underperformed due to injury or poor play does not make McCoy's performance a performance by default. It's not that they underperformed. They didn't even race (or just barely did). When 2 of the top 10 backs in the NFL and 1 in the top 15 barely play, it makes McCoy placing 12th a little less impressive to me. Again, McCoy was 12th, not 8th. Edited February 21, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's not that they underperformed. They didn't even race (or just barely did). When 2 of the top 10 backs in the NFL and 1 in the top 15 barely play, it makes McCoy placing 12th a little less impressive to me. Again, McCoy was 12th, not 8th. I am not debating how impressive it is. Simply that is an inaccurate use of the word default because it still had to be earned however impressive or otherwise ir is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) You rich bastage! you should see my change jar! Actually in some cases, there is. For example, SI wrote an article the other day which used the 168m payroll number as the reason they were way over the cap. Multiple sources have used the higher payroll or the lowest possible salary cap (which is unlikely to happen) to exaggerate the Bills situation because dire is more dramatic. The most likely situation is that they will be flush against the cap. They won't be players in free agency, but they aren't likely to lose players they'll miss (considering the way Mario was playing), and could very well emerge a better team. darned good post Hades, you say? nothing like the brochures McCoy rushed for the 8th most yards in the NFL last year despite missing 3 games. To say he's done is simply wrong except that pesky issue of burning down the city of Philly in a drunken #champagnerage while plooking McNesby's fat wife. Philly is old school and still has the gallows set up for weekend revelry. gotta string up something! Isn't it amazing how short some's memories are? McCoy was really good last year when healthy. He's a dynamic back that makes plays that only a couple of backs in the league are capable of. he aint no joke. Before the line came together he was making plays. make a guy miss in a phone booth. and i was a detractor Why do you think it's smart of Whaley to have so many players under contract at this time? Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's dumb or necessarily a bad move or anything. I just don't see any real advantage. As for Mario, if Rex isn't going anywhere anytime soon and he isn't going to utilize him properly then Whaley might as well release him. The individual defensive front seven players - as well as the the defense as a whole - had huge drop offs in 2016. If it was just Mario then I'd put the blame on him, but it was everyone. The problem was scheme. The Bills will lose a substantial amount of talent when Mario is released, even if they weren't bothering to utilize it. i dont get why some return to this so often. are we talking about the draft here. what does the last paragraph have to do with this dialogue ? not trying to be wienerschnitzel here but gee. Maybe the EJ thing has played out finally. And highly underrated as a blitz pickup RB yep he killed it, Fred Jackson style a coupla times. Thats when my my attitude turned on the Diva. He plays for real By default. It's not that they underperformed. They didn't even race (or just barely did). When 2 of the top 10 backs in the NFL and 1 in the top 15 barely play, it makes McCoy placing 12th a little less impressive to me. Again, McCoy was 12th, not 8th. I am not sure if you are playing Devils advocate here. But if you are not, why would you think Leseans efforts were not commendable when taken into context? Edited February 22, 2016 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 But Bills fans persist in a number of myths. One of the big myths is that McCoy is critical to our success. He isn't, but then again, most RBs aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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