YoloinOhio Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Well, the basis for my argument is the fact that the only way we were going to keep Schwartz (or hire him back) is at HC. That is his rule. And if that's how it has to be, then fine. It can't really get much worse. agree that it had a low bar to reach to turn out better! Just thinking about where things stood at the time... And what we knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) The more I read about Jim Schwartz on this board, the more I am thinking that he is the one that is being made a saint rather than Mother Theresa. Either that or he has a lot of family members who post here. P.S. It is funny how people throw out the argument that Rex is arrogant yet there are others who forget about an assistant coach being carried off the field last year. Edited December 21, 2015 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 383 posts in less than one day. Getting up there with personal records. I can't read them all, and would love to believe the OP, not Yolo, but the twitter guy. I'll believe it when i see it though. We could certainly use a great football mind with a vision and lots of experience at the top. Forget about the Brandon stuff. He's the money guy. He'll know what to do with coaching after an evaluation this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Rex was on WGR today for his normal 5 PM segment. Coach Rex Ryan joins Schopp next. Lots of question for the coach.Rex: "Playoffs were the #1 goal, obviously we're disappointed."Rex: "Safe to say I expected to get a lot of sacks, we all did, fans included."Rex: "We had high expectations going in and we didn't reach those expectations and we have to find out why."Rex: "Aaron Williams is a passionate player, one of the guys I was most excited about coming in here, unfortunately he got hurt."Rex: "We have two games left and those two games are very important."Rex: "We got some mean guys [coaches]."Rex: "Love the fact Sammy is willing to put himself out there. Need not only a coach to lead but need players to lead."Rex: "I was very excited about Watkins comments."Rex: "Doug and I are on the same page with everything. Comments are ridiculous. Our agenda is all about winning and making Buffalo proud."Rex: "Look at the 2015 draft, that was an outstanding draft, McCoy trade, and picking up Tyrod he's hit home runs that off-season."Rex: "I think it's an erroneous source. Source is just wrong."Rex: "Make no mistake next week is about trying to get the win."Rex: "Christmas is not the way I wanted it to be. Not a very merry Christmas at my house." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The more I read about Jim Schwartz on this board, the more I am thinking that he is the one that is being made a saint rather than Mother Theresa. Either that or he has a lot of family members who post here. P.S. It is funny how people throw out the argument that Rex is arrogant yet there are others who forget about an assistant coach being carried off the field last year. The truth about Schwartz is that he is every bit as married to his scheme as Rex. And for most of his career....finding pass rushing DE's and DT's was not very easy and subsequently he had a lot more ups and downs than Rex Just so happens there has been an influx of huge, pass rushing DL in the past 5-6 years and by virtue of those numbers alone, his scheme is more likely to be successful than it was before. Now with Mario on the way out and Kyle two years older and coming off of injury.......it might not be as easy as just plugging in the wide 9 next year and hoping Jarius Wynn and Stefon Charles are up to the task. If those DL can't bring major heat from the wide 9 his scheme is TOAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big74Mac Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The truth about Schwartz is that he is every bit as married to his scheme as Rex. Two things about this statement. One, Jim's worked and Rex's did not, and two, we had the personnel to play Jim's defense. We never had the personnel to play Rex's scheme so why do you change something that is not broke. Don't fix what is not broke. Rex should have left the defense alone and worked on the offense which is what was broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The truth about Schwartz is that he is every bit as married to his scheme as Rex. And for most of his career....finding pass rushing DE's and DT's was not very easy and subsequently he had a lot more ups and downs than Rex Just so happens there has been an influx of huge, pass rushing DL in the past 5-6 years and by virtue of those numbers alone, his scheme is more likely to be successful than it was before. Now with Mario on the way out and Kyle two years older and coming off of injury.......it might not be as easy as just plugging in the wide 9 next year and hoping Jarius Wynn and Stefon Charles are up to the task. If those DL can't bring major heat from the wide 9 his scheme is TOAST. Exactly. I think finding 3-4 personnel is still cheaper than fielding 4-3 because linebackers costs less. Bills were going to have to adjust anyway. Of course we wanted to keep the band together but watching DL age before our eyes at least gives us time to make changes before next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Jim was leaving unless he got the HC job. He didn't get it and left. We never really had the opportunity to retain him as DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I agree with your whole post, but I'm not sure how much modern success correlates with new or old talent. Wade Phillips is still great, Chip Kelly still sucks. Coaches sure. Same with Arians. However, when it comes to football czaring, I find the guys who had success when the league was very different would not be an inspired choice IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Well, the basis for my argument is the fact that the only way we were going to keep Schwartz (or hire him back) is at HC. That is his rule. And if that's how it has to be, then fine. It can't really get much worse. Thats hilarious. you know thats insanity right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Two things about this statement. One, Jim's worked and Rex's did not, and two, we had the personnel to play Jim's defense. We never had the personnel to play Rex's scheme so why do you change something that is not broke. Don't fix what is not broke. Rex should have left the defense alone and worked on the offense which is what was broke. That is the truth. But you know who was smart wrt Schwartz? Marrone. Can't say that about a lot of things he did but he could scarcely have picked a better DC for a very athletic front and a D full of very good athletes with below average IQ's for their positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Your disdain for Rex cloud your acceptance of history. Rex's jets and Ravens teams were not an undisciplined mess. Rex's reputation as a players coach are very similar to how Marv was perceived as a coach by league insiders when he first joined the Bills. It's easy to judge Marv in retrospect because he had a nucleus of hall of famers, but they certainly didn't perform like that early on and it took Marv and Polian three seasons to clean up the roster Everyone acts as if Rex inherited a superstar team that he tanked as opposed to inheriting a bunch of guys who eeked out a 9-7 finish and could have just as easily been 6-10. Bottom line is that the roster is still filled with a bunch of idiots who are prone to making a boneheaded play once a game. The purge will continue. You are right that I have little regard for Rex. The hire made little sense to me. The roster that Rex inherited certainly had its flaws. There is no doubt about it. But every team has a roster that is incomplete. That's what happens in a cap system. The talent gets spread out. The measure of a coach is does his team play up to or close to its capabilities. You can't expect a coach to have his players play beyond their abilities and limitations. This team dramatically under performed. I don't know how you can come to a different conclusion. Will there be major roster changes to the roster to suit RR's preferences? Probably so. But as I said in the prior posts I don't believe that he has demonstrated an ability to instill an adequate level of discipline and intelligence to the team that he is currently coaching. When he was with the Jets he left a team that was struggling and in chaos. Was the status of that team all his fault? Of course not. But he certainly was a major factor how that team was assembled performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 That's the biggest reason to run as far away and as fast as you can from Polian. Everything I've read his son is a disaster, but likely if you hire Bill you get he kid too. And not far behind will be AJ Smith another mess. And what makes you think Peyton knows anything about running a football team? This infatuation with big names amazes me! Peyton Manning in an Elway type role, Chris Polian as assistant GM and Bill Polian as Grand Poobah/Czar If #18 decided to hang em up after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The truth about Schwartz is that he is every bit as married to his scheme as Rex. And for most of his career....finding pass rushing DE's and DT's was not very easy and subsequently he had a lot more ups and downs than Rex Just so happens there has been an influx of huge, pass rushing DL in the past 5-6 years and by virtue of those numbers alone, his scheme is more likely to be successful than it was before. Now with Mario on the way out and Kyle two years older and coming off of injury.......it might not be as easy as just plugging in the wide 9 next year and hoping Jarius Wynn and Stefon Charles are up to the task. If those DL can't bring major heat from the wide 9 his scheme is TOAST. The truth about Schwartz is that he is every bit as married to his scheme as Rex. And for most of his career....finding pass rushing DE's and DT's was not very easy and subsequently he had a lot more ups and downs than Rex Just so happens there has been an influx of huge, pass rushing DL in the past 5-6 years and by virtue of those numbers alone, his scheme is more likely to be successful than it was before. Now with Mario on the way out and Kyle two years older and coming off of injury.......it might not be as easy as just plugging in the wide 9 next year and hoping Jarius Wynn and Stefon Charles are up to the task. If those DL can't bring major heat from the wide 9 his scheme is TOAST. Good take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yep........If you don't want Whaley, fire him and hire another GM to run the football side....INCLUDING letting him choose the HC Agreed. I'd keep Whaley fire Rex and let Whaley have full control over the next hire.... but if you don't like Doug then fire him and get a GM you do like and give them full autonomy to fire Rex if they don't want him and replace him with whoever they do want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Betcha Pegs makes another run for Polian. (for better, or for worse) If it's Polian, it has been done since last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) The truth about Schwartz is that he is every bit as married to his scheme as Rex. And for most of his career....finding pass rushing DE's and DT's was not very easy and subsequently he had a lot more ups and downs than Rex Just so happens there has been an influx of huge, pass rushing DL in the past 5-6 years and by virtue of those numbers alone, his scheme is more likely to be successful than it was before. Now with Mario on the way out and Kyle two years older and coming off of injury.......it might not be as easy as just plugging in the wide 9 next year and hoping Jarius Wynn and Stefon Charles are up to the task. If those DL can't bring major heat from the wide 9 his scheme is TOAST. It was a perfect storm of talent for Schwartz, hughes especially was a great fit. At this point, it's moot. They need two more DL that fit Rex's scheme. Edited December 22, 2015 by TPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Jim's system worked with the 2014 Bills. as was pointed out the D line is now 2 years older. Two things about this statement. One, Jim's worked and Rex's did not, and two, we had the personnel to play Jim's defense. We never had the personnel to play Rex's scheme so why do you change something that is not broke. Don't fix what is not broke. Rex should have left the defense alone and worked on the offense which is what was broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 He had players, but he also took over the 0-16 Lions, the worst team in NFL history. Not as though he took a 9-7 team and ruined it. Yep. The often forgotten side of the Jim Schwartz story. I was a huge fan of him as DC and whilst he wasn't my choice for HC people who point to his overall record in Detroit and "1 playoff appearance in 6 years" (it was 1 in 5 actually but I digress) neglect the fact that he inherited arguably the biggest mess in NFL history coming of the Millen era. The team his first two years had basically no talent and got gradually better, 4-12 then 6-10 followed by a 10-6 year. The year after than was a total mess - much of Schwartz's making and the mood in the camp never seemed to recover and they blew a great position to go 7-9 his last year. But the first 3 years of Schwartz in Detroit he achieved a huge amount with a franchise that was more used to failure even than Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par73 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If there is any truth to this, I don't see Whaley sticking around with a lesser role. Sounds like they would be pushing him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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