New Orleans To Remove Excremental Rebel Monuments

[B-Man]

6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

One has nothing to do with the other.  

 

I don't have any problem with the Confederate statues being taken down from public places, you, and 716 are assuming that.

 

But the left taking down other statues and names DOES have something to do with that

 

It is the, now demonstrable result of backing down to mob rule.  Vote to take down a Rebel statue--------fine, but surely I don't need to post the many videos of leftist tearing down confederate statues with NO consequences.

 

And what did that lead to ? tearing down Columbus, Washington, Christ, again many videos out there and again hardly any arrests.

 

That is not "the left doing other annoying things?"  as you so poorly characterized my takes.

 

Actions have consequences

 

Take down the Confederate states if that is what the majority of Americans want...............I will not split them into groups as done by most here.

 

But be prepared, once unleashed, wokeism is hard to stop .........that much is being demonstrated in every town, big and small, across the country today.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

   I also find the Big Boy statue offensive.

 

Too bad. Big Boy wasn't a traitor that led an anti-democratic movement to destroy the United States. Lee, the traitor, did 

25 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

But the Left won't stop there.

 

As argued on page one of this thread

 

and demonstrated time and time again over  the past few years.

 

 

 

What are you saying? That it is ok to move the traitor's statues, except that they stand in defense of something else? You are making excuses for murderous cops., Now pro-slavery traitors? 

 

So transparent you are. 

 

Such a loser you are 

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

I don't have any problem with the Confederate statues being taken down from public places, you, and 716 are assuming that.

 

But the left taking down other statues and names DOES have something to do with that

 

It is the, now demonstrable result of backing down to mob rule.  Vote to take down a Rebel statue--------fine, but surely I don't need to post the many videos of leftist tearing down confederate statues with NO consequences.

 

And what did that lead to ? tearing down Columbus, Washington, Christ, again many videos out there and again hardly any arrests.

 

T 

 

 

 

That's his name for democracy 

 

Yup. 

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

I don't have any problem with the Confederate statues being taken down from public places, you, and 716 are assuming that.

 

But the left taking down other statues and names DOES have something to do with that

 

It is the, now demonstrable result of backing down to mob rule.  Vote to take down a Rebel statue--------fine, but surely I don't need to post the many videos of leftist tearing down confederate statues with NO consequences.

 

And what did that lead to ? tearing down Columbus, Washington, Christ, again many videos out there and again hardly any arrests.

 

That is not "the left doing other annoying things?"  as you so poorly characterized my takes.

 

Actions have consequences

 

Take down the Confederate states if that is what the majority of Americans want...............I will not split them into groups as done by most here.

 

But be prepared, once unleashed, wokeism is hard to stop .........that much is being demonstrated in every town, big and small, across the country today.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

I just don't see the "hold the line" argument. If you take down Confederate statues because they are absolutely horrible (and you can preserve history without them) then how does that stop you from stopping them from taking down a Lincoln statue? They are two completely different things. Also it isn't like all this resistance to tearing down Confederate statues are stopping the "wokeists" from going after other landmarks so what success is "holding the line" even having?

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I just don't see the "hold the line" argument. If you take down Confederate statues because they are absolutely horrible (and you can preserve history without them) then how does that stop you from stopping them from taking down a Lincoln statue? They are two completely different things. Also it isn't like all this resistance to tearing down Confederate statues are stopping the "wokeists" from going after other landmarks so what success is "holding the line" even having?

 

I appreciate the response. But again I am rather mystified by your belief that we can just stop "them" from going after Lincoln or others. Have you not been paying attention over the past decade. 

 

Schools want to rename halls now because the students are offended that the people were slaveowners, even though that certainly wasn't why they were chosen.

 

I really do not see how you can keep claiming that the movement to take down Confederate statues is different from the others..........It is not.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I cannot respond to Tiberius's post as it is (even more than usual) incoherent.

[billsfan89]

14 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

I appreciate the response. But again I am rather mystified by your belief that we can just stop "them" from going after Lincoln or others. Have you not been paying attention over the past decade. 

 

Schools want to rename halls now because the students are offended that the people were slaveowners, even though that certainly wasn't why they were chosen.

 

I really do not see how you can keep claiming that the movement to take down Confederate statues is different from the others..........It is not.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I cannot respond to Tiberius's post as it is (even more than usual) incoherent.

 

Having Confederate statues up is the equivalent of Germany leaving up Statues of Nazi's and defending that in the name of if you let them take down the Nazi statues then they will just go after the Bismarck statues. It is a very foolish argument as each issue is isolated and mostly regional. Once again if you can't stop them anyway why not at least let them do the right thing in this instance? Just a question to you personally do you feel that the statues should be kept up?

Edited April 1, 2021 by billsfan89

[B-Man]

29 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Having Confederate statues up is the equivalent of Germany leaving up Statues of Nazi's and defending that in the name of if you let them take down the Nazi statues then they will just go after the Bismarck statues. It is a very foolish argument as each issue is isolated and mostly regional. Once again if you can't stop them anyway why not at least let them do the right thing in this instance? Just a question to you personally do you feel that the statues should be kept up?

 

As I have stated previously in the thread, I never saw the point of having up Confederate statues in cities, I mean for God's sake, they were the losers.  

 

But certainly the ones that are there on old battlegrounds that honor the bravery of those Americans should stay up, but again I fear that they will not.

 

My basic answer is that we should legally remove those statues that the majority of Citizens think should come down. (and surely you feel that the majority of Americans feel that way, right?

 

Instead, over the past few years, the mob on the Left has made those decisions for us, you may disagree of course, but anyone following this issue closely would not.

 

Thanks.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

But lying for what you feel is the "greater good" is okay..........right?

 

 

 

 

 

Over the past few years, a guy named Robert Lee has been claiming to be a descendant of Confederate General and alleged namesake Robert E. Lee and making the rounds calling for the removal of Confederate statues throughout the country.

 

But according to the Washington Post’s fact-checker, this was all BS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Here he is a guest of Gov. Ralph Northam in VA:

 

 

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/05/17/washington-post-unleashes-a-correction-tsunami-after-debunking-claim-that-robert-lee-iv-is-related-to-the-confederate-general/

[B-Man]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/05/25/a-compromise-on-stone-mountain-confederate-monument-n392446

 

 

A compromise on Stone Mountain Confederate monument

 

 Ever since the craze of trying to erase the nation’s history by tearing down monuments that some people find offensive got started, there have been repeated demands to “do something” about Stone Mountain Confederate monument in Georgia. Unlike some of the typical statues that cities erect that can be dragged down during a riot with some ropes and chains, however, this one isn’t so easy for protesters to tackle. For one thing, it’s gigantic. It takes up three acres of space and it’s literally carved into the side of a mountain, as the name suggests. It depicts Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson riding on horseback. To get rid of it would require a significant amount of dynamite and a skilled demolition crew. Also, it’s one of Georgia’s biggest and most frequently visited tourist destinations.

 

In response to the calls for changes by BLM advocates and others, some alterations are indeed coming. But the mural is not going to be destroyed or changed. Instead, a new exhibit will be added to the park, seeking to tell the whole, complicated story of the region’s past, including the involvement of the Klu Klux Klan. Is this going to appease everyone? Obviously not, but at least they’re making an effort. 

 

{snip}

 

As far as this new exhibit they’re planning goes, I don’t have any problem with it. The country’s history is complicated and people should have the opportunity to be educated about it, including both the good and the bad. Or, as the planning board put it, “the warts and all history of the Stone Mountain carving.” If the solution is to expand one of their parks and provide even more historical information, that’s a great approach.

 

 

It’s certainly far better than allowing mobs to descend on public property and destroy existing displays. I have to wonder how much more rational this debate could have been if people could have negotiated to have other statues and monuments expanded with additional features to add historical context rather than just smashing them to pieces in the dead of night. There’s never been any point to these attacks from the beginning. No amount of destroyed statuary will erase the past and make it so the antebellum south never existed.

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Federal Commission Wrongly Puts ‘Antietam’ On Confederate Names Chopping Block

 

https://thefederalist.com/2021/05/31/federal-commission-wrongly-puts-antietam-on-confederate-names-chopping-block/

[Tiberius]

Good bye Robert E Lee 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57788220

[Irv]

What’s next?  Jackhammer Washington off Mount Rushmore?  What a bunch of wimps and crybabies.  What a mess. 

[Tiberius]

29 minutes ago, Irv said:

What’s next?  Jackhammer Washington off Mount Rushmore?  What a bunch of wimps and crybabies.  What a mess. 

Oh, I was not aware that Washington led a slaveholders rebellion 

[Irv]

50 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, I was not aware that Washington led a slaveholders rebellion 

What a mess. 

[B-Man]

 

 

The link is a terrific and timely essay.

 

It is much too long for the likes of Gator and Billzy, but I would encourage you to read it.

 

 

The Spring issue of the Claremont Review of Books went to press this past May. It remains relevant and timely in every respect I can think of. However, it is especially timely in this context. Looking back on the last year, I think, the CRB commissioned and published Christopher Caldwell’s review/essay 

“There goes Robert E. Lee.” Caldwell’s essay concludes:

 

One of the great contemporary delusions is to assume that, when rioters tear down a statue of Thomas Jefferson or demand that an Abraham Lincoln school be renamed, they are demonstrating their historical ignorance, and have somehow “got the wrong guy.” Oh, no. They reject the idea that the Civil War was fought between a morally pure North and a morally irredeemable South. In this they have a point. The war was indeed fought between two sections that had each tolerated slavery to varying degrees, and finally faced an irreconcilable difference over whether any part of that institution could be tolerated. But there has been a shift in our understanding of what this means. Whereas earlier Americans understood slavery primarily as a problem of liberty, today’s Americans understand it primarily as a problem of race. It seemed for several generations that the end of slavery had removed the only obstacle to honoring both sides of the Civil War. But in the newest generation, the persistence of American racial prejudice can be a reason to honor neither.

 

Although there may have been ambivalence about the war’s origins, there was none in its resolution. “In the course of three and a half years,” wrote the British military historian Spenser Wilkinson a century ago, “the resistance of the Confederacy was crushed, its cause lost, and every interest and principle that had been invoked in its behalf abandoned for ever.” Abandoned forever is right. Whether they were erected in that spirit or not, Confederate statues, road names, and ceremonies today betoken the settlement of the constitutional and moral question from which the Civil War arose—not the reopening of it.

 

“Human nature will not change,” Lincoln said shortly after his re-election in 1864. “In any future great national trial, compared with the men of this, we shall have as weak and as strong, as silly and as wise, as bad and as good. Let us therefore study the incidents of this, as philosophy to learn wisdom from, and none of them as wrongs to avenge.” That is the spirit in which Americans have tended to remember, and should remember, Robert E. Lee, one of the bravest and most principled among them, even if his bravery is of the sort they cannot always match and his principles of the sort they cannot always honor.

 

 

 

Caldwell’s long essay makes for a timely and educational weekend read.

 

https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/there-goes-robert-e-lee/

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

Page #1 of this thread back in 2015.

 

"What do you mean it's only the beginning ?    this is just about taking down Confederate statues,     you're crazy"

 

 

 

The city’s remaining contested statue was torn from its pedestal Saturday once Charlottesville’s City Council voted unanimously to take down the statue of Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, and Sacagawea.

 

“The statue of Lewis, Clark and Sacagawea departed the intersection where it has stood since 1919 at around 2:45 p.m. aboard a flatbed truck,” the Daily Progress reported, adding the removal took approximately an hour and a half.

 

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/charlottesville-takes-down-lewis-clark-sacagawea-statue/article_f18a2412-e197-11eb-9125-af845766cd9e.html

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by B-Man

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

Page #1 of this thread back in 2015.

 

"What do you mean it's only the beginning ? this is just about taking down Confederate statues, you're crazy"

 

 

 

The city’s remaining contested statue was torn from its pedestal Saturday once Charlottesville’s City Council voted unanimously to take down the statue of Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, and Sacagawea.

 

“The statue of Lewis, Clark and Sacagawea departed the intersection where it has stood since 1919 at around 2:45 p.m. aboard a flatbed truck,” the Daily Progress reported, adding the removal took approximately an hour and a half.

 

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/charlottesville-takes-down-lewis-clark-sacagawea-statue/article_f18a2412-e197-11eb-9125-af845766cd9e.html

 

 

 

 

 

This is the single most stupid thing I've seen the idiotic Charlottesville City Council do in the 22 years I've lived here.

I drive by that thing nearly every day.

The statue was a tribute to the Lewis and Clark Expedition, conceived and brought about by Thomas Jefferson, a local, and including William Clark, also a local.

Sacagawea was depicted in a manner showing her doing her tracking thing. It was in no way "demeaning."

An idiotic waste of money.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Another victory against the Confederacy 🕺

Quote

 

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - The Supreme Court of Virginia ruled Thursday that the state can take down an enormous statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee that became a symbol of racial injustice as it towered over Monument Avenue in the state’s capital for more than a century.

The high court’s ruling came in two lawsuits filed by residents who attempted to block removal of the 21-foot (6-meter) bronze equestrian sculpture, which shows Lee in military attire atop a 40-foot (12-meter) pedestal.

 

 

https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/virginia-supreme-court-lee-monument-removal

[B-Man]

 

 

Just ignore how this has led to removal of statues of Jefferson, Washington, Columbus and others.

 

Victory !

 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Just ignore how this has led to removal of statues of Jefferson, Washington, Columbus and others.

 

Victory !

 

I see Washington right on our Money, Jefferson, too. But good to see you accept the need to move slave holder Lee, traitor 

[Tiberius]

Quote

 

RICHMOND — Workers have removed Virginia’s biggest statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from its towering stone base, ending its 131-year reign as the embodiment of this city’s mythology as the former capital of the Confederacy.

As they began to move the statue off its pedestal, workers on the cherry picker began waving their arms, a crowd of hundreds cheered and a worker held up five fingers then four then three two one and the crane lifted the statue from its base. The crowd roared and began singing, “Hey, hey, hey, goodbye!”

 

Good bye!!! 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/robert-e-lee-statue-removal/2021/09/08/1d9564ee-103d-11ec-9cb6-bf9351a25799_story.html 

 

[B-Man]

47 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Good bye!!! 

 

 

 

 

THEN THEY CAME FOR JEFFERSON

https://publicsquaremag.org/politics-law/then-they-came-for-jefferson/

 

Protesters tore down a George Washington statue 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/portland-george-washington-statue-toppled-trnd/index.html

 

Lincoln Statue Removed in Boston

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/12/29/lincoln-statue-removed-boston-dc/

 

Thomas Jefferson statue will be moved following calls to remove racist symbols from public spaces

https://decaturish.com/2020/06/demonstration-organizer-says-decaturs-thomas-jefferson-statue-will-be-removed/

 

Protesters pull down Thomas Jefferson statue in front of Portland high school

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/06/protesters-take-down-thomas-jefferson-statue-in-front-of-portlands-jefferson-high-school.html

 

TOPEKA, Kan. (WIBW) - Washburn University removed their Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin statues outside the law building 

https://www.wibw.com/2020/08/26/founding-fathers-statues-removed-at-washburn/

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

28 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

THEN THEY CAME FOR JEFFERSON

https://publicsquaremag.org/politics-law/then-they-came-for-jefferson/

 

Protesters tore down a George Washington statue 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/portland-george-washington-statue-toppled-trnd/index.html

 

Lincoln Statue Removed in Boston

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/12/29/lincoln-statue-removed-boston-dc/

 

Thomas Jefferson statue will be moved following calls to remove racist symbols from public spaces

https://decaturish.com/2020/06/demonstration-organizer-says-decaturs-thomas-jefferson-statue-will-be-removed/

 

Protesters pull down Thomas Jefferson statue in front of Portland high school

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/06/protesters-take-down-thomas-jefferson-statue-in-front-of-portlands-jefferson-high-school.html

 

TOPEKA, Kan. (WIBW) - Washburn University removed their Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin statues outside the law building 

https://www.wibw.com/2020/08/26/founding-fathers-statues-removed-at-washburn/

 

 

 

Poor Lee, no one really complaining that fool's statue is coming down. That Lincoln one isn't so great anyway 

[corta765]

On 12/18/2015 at 1:33 PM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

All the more reason to learn from history rather than destroying it.

 

Removing statues is not erasing history. Literally not mentioning it in history books, removing any museum or historical acknowledgement to it would be. I don't think anyone disagrees that it would be a complete mistake to pretend the civil war never existed, but their are elements of it that have no belonging in a regular public area unless in a museum.

[B-Man]

41 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Removing statues is not erasing history.

 

Literally not mentioning it in history books, removing any museum or historical acknowledgement to it would be. I don't think anyone disagrees that it would be a complete mistake to pretend the civil war never existed, but their are elements of it that have no belonging in a regular public area unless in a museum.

[Governor]

We’re just making room for the new ones after the war. We’ll have one for Gym Jordan and Matt Gaetz. Of course the fallen leader Donald will have one. 
 

The fallen heros of our time.

[Tiberius]

45 minutes ago, B-Man said:

So the Hitler statues should have stayed up in Germany? 

 

Try thinking sometime. 

[B-Man]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

So the Hitler statues should have stayed up in Germany? 

 

Try thinking sometime. 

 

No one said anything comparable to that.

 

Removing statues/erasing history.

 

Try thinking , for the FIRST time.

 

 

Try this one.............and then misrepresent why I posted it......................You know, the usual.

 

 

 

 

[wnyguy]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

No one said anything comparable to that.

 

Removing statues/erasing history.

 

Try thinking , for the FIRST time.

 

 

Try this one.............and then misrepresent why I posted it......................You know, the usual.

 

 

 

 

Why those racist bastards. There you have it, proof the the Taliban should be defunded now.

[Tiberius]

15 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

No one said anything comparable to that.

 

Removing statues/erasing history.

 

Try thinking , for the FIRST time.

 

 

Try this one.............and then misrepresent why I posted it......................You know, the usual.

 

 

 

 

So, again, you wanted Saddam's statues to remain up? How stupid! 

[Tiberius]

17 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

No one said anything comparable to that.

 

Removing statues/erasing history.

 

Try thinking , for the FIRST time.

 

 

Try this one.............and then misrepresent why I posted it......................You know, the usual.

 

 

 

 

Nope, if removing statues is removing "history" then you are also against Saddam's statue coming down, and Hitlers and Stalins. So stupid 

[B-Man]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So stupid! 

 

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So stupid 

 

You said it.

 

 

[Tiberius]

The "Hero" Robert E Lee. This is how he treated his enslaved people that he was suppose to free 

 

Quote

“... We remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free; he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to ‘lay it on well,’ an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/09/10/robert-e-lee-slavery/

[Irv]

Demented Biden should be impeached for letting the statues be taken down.  Lee was one of the greatest statesman in US history.  Biden's too demented to know that. Harris is too stupid.  What a mess.  

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Irv

[Tiberius]

22 minutes ago, Irv said:

Demented Biden should be impeached for letting the statues be taken down.  Lee was one of the greatest statesman in US history.  Biden's too demented to know that. Harris is too stupid.  What a mess.  

 

 

Lee was what? He wasn't a statesmen at all. Not sure where you are getting that. He was a traitor, the leader of a rebellion to destroy the nation and keep slavery legal. He was pretty much a POS slaveholder 

[Irv]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Lee was what? He wasn't a statesmen at all. Not sure where you are getting that. He was a traitor, the leader of a rebellion to destroy the nation and keep slavery legal. He was pretty much a POS slaveholder 

One of the greatest leaders in history.  Nearly defeated the larger and better equipped Union Army.  They should be putting more statues of him up, not taking them down.  

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Irv said:

One of the greatest leaders in history.  Nearly defeated the larger and better equipped Union Army.  They should be putting more statues of him up, not taking them down.  

Ya, nice move that Pickett's Charge there. Brilliant! Fought a rebellion for slavery. 

 

Do you like him because he was so racist he helped kill thousands of American soldiers, helped drag more into the hell of slavery and worked to undermine the freeing of others. Great guy, if you are a total racist 

[Backintheday544]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Ya, nice move that Pickett's Charge there. Brilliant! Fought a rebellion for slavery. 

 

Do you like him because he was so racist he helped kill thousands of American soldiers, helped drag more into the hell of slavery and worked to undermine the freeing of others. Great guy, if you are a total racist 

Don’t fight with them they like losers. They like Trump who lost at business so many times his books end at chapter 7 and could t beat sleepy Joe. They like losers so much they want statutes of the losers.

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Ya, nice move that Pickett's Charge there. Brilliant! Fought a rebellion for slavery. 

 

Do you like him because he was so racist he helped kill thousands of American soldiers, helped drag more into the hell of slavery and worked to undermine the freeing of others. Great guy, if you are a total racist 

He’s an aristocrat who took advantage of poor, dumb white guys.  No surprise that he’s beloved by some here. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Irv said:

Demented Biden should be impeached for letting the statues be taken down.  Lee was one of the greatest statesman in US history.  Biden's too demented to know that. Harris is too stupid.  What a mess.  

 

 

I thought you disliked Democrats?? 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood