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The age old debate...QB vs OL


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QB. See Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck (before this year), Newton working with crap and/or patchwork OLs and still making it work.

 

Dallas supposedly has best OL in league yet can't win a game without Romo.

 

OL more important for running game, IMO.

Edited by YoloinOhio
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What's more important?

 

What should you get first?

 

Build a great OL or get a good QB then address the OL?

 

 

 

 

CBF

Buy good refs. Then the OL is good (they get to hold.) Then just plug in any sixth-round pick behind them, and he'll be an All-Pro.

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There's no debate at all.

 

QBs win without great OLs all the time.

 

Brady, Wilson, Rodgers, Big Ben...they all play (or have played) for some time behind lousy OLs.

 

It's great to have a good OL, but it's useless without a good QB; the converse is not true at all.

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You get your QB whenever, however you can. The only exception is when you have a reasonably young, proven franchise QB entrenched on your roster. In that case if one falls in your lap, you either still take him or you ransom him off.

Edited by BarleyNY
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If your O-line is garbage then you're going to have a bad time regardless, but I'd rather have a good QB behind a mediocre line than a mediocre QB behind a great line.

Nah...Seattle won a Superbowl with a garbage OL. Granted, it makes it more difficult, but a great QB can mitigate a LOT of the damage. Brady's out there with mostly no-name guys getting it done (I realize he's exceptional, but he's also one of the best examples).

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Nah...Seattle won a Superbowl with a garbage OL. Granted, it makes it more difficult, but a great QB can mitigate a LOT of the damage. Brady's out there with mostly no-name guys getting it done (I realize he's exceptional, but he's also one of the best examples).

I don't agree that their line was garbage at all. Mediocre maybe, but not garbage. Plus, Russell Wilson's a bit of a one off as far as being able to compensate for pass protection.

 

WRT Brady, outside of the Bills game he's gotten at least borderline adequate protection despite having no-names, and he's still doing just enough to get by, but his production's dropped too. Without a couple of missed tackles he gets shut down against the Bills. And we're talking about a guy in the running for GOAT.

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I don't agree that their line was garbage at all. Mediocre maybe, but not garbage. Plus, Russell Wilson's a bit of a one off as far as being able to compensate for pass protection.

 

WRT Brady, outside of the Bills game he's gotten at least borderline adequate protection despite having no-names, and he's still doing just enough to get by, but his production's dropped too. Without a couple of missed tackles he gets shut down against the Bills. And we're talking about a guy in the running for GOAT.

 

I believe that Wilson was among the most-sacked QBs in the NFL each of the last 2 seasons, and is there again this year. I agree that he compensates, but my point is simply that he's not really an outlier.

 

The year that Ben and Rodgers met in the Superbowl, each was among the most-sacked QBs in the league.

 

Brady does his line far more favors than they do for him, as I'm sure you know.

 

I'm fine disagreeing, as I'm only trying to say that a good QB can overcome a deficient OL more readily than a good OL can help a deficient QB.

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I'm going to pre-emptively note that the Bills' OL, despite everyone saying so every season whether they are actually good or not, does not suck this year. The left side of our line is one of the very best in all of football. The right side, not so much. But not everyone has five good starters left to right every year. Classic example of Bills fans scrutinizing our guys' every play and then basing their ideas about other teams on what they understand to be true. Carry on.

 

Re-signing Glenn and Incognito is a HUGE priority.

Edited by metzelaars_lives
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tom cable's zone blocking schemes and marshawn lynch's ability to transform ( like terrel davis and clinton portis did for shanahan) into a fine one-cut power back is what made russell's job simpler - that and pete carroll's adapting some collegiate spread option ideas into his O (see auburn's malzahn).

 

before the league transformed into a 7 on 7 drill to increase offensive touches that could be spread across enough players to satisfy several fantasy league rosters - an O line was the foundation upon which a consistently productive O was built. now, as Marcell's quote points out - the relevance of engaging and holding blocks has become secondary to offensive execution.

 

so, yeah.. grab yourself a spread option athlete who can make all the throws.. while you're at it.. grab a few.. and change Al's old mantra from 'just win, baby' to 'plug and play, baby'

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There is a popular myth here that says QBs do everything and the other 10 players mean nothing. There is a reason football uses 11 players and it's called a team. Bill Belichick's famous quote is "do your job" not "you 10 guys just stand there while Brady does all the work."

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I believe that Wilson was among the most-sacked QBs in the NFL each of the last 2 seasons, and is there again this year. I agree that he compensates, but my point is simply that he's not really an outlier.

 

The year that Ben and Rodgers met in the Superbowl, each was among the most-sacked QBs in the league.

 

Brady does his line far more favors than they do for him, as I'm sure you know.

 

I'm fine disagreeing, as I'm only trying to say that a good QB can overcome a deficient OL more readily than a good OL can help a deficient QB.

I agree completely with your overall point. I'm just saying that even a good QB will struggle if the line is bad enough.

 

I hesitate to attribute sack numbers to the OL, especially with mobile QBs who run a lot b/c every time they're stopped for a loss it's recorded as a sack, but that's kind of tangential to the conversation.

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Dallas has a great OL, 3-8, without or with a hurt Romo, a franchise QB

 

just saying

 

What?

 

Dallas is 3-1 with Romo; 0-7 without him.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/tonyromo/2505354/gamelogs

 

Same OL.

I agree completely with your overall point. I'm just saying that even a good QB will struggle if the line is bad enough.

 

I hesitate to attribute sack numbers to the OL, especially with mobile QBs who run a lot b/c every time they're stopped for a loss it's recorded as a sack, but that's kind of tangential to the conversation.

 

Indeed...I think we're more on the same page than in disagreement in general.

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What's more important?

 

What should you get first?

 

Build a great OL or get a good QB then address the OL?

 

 

 

 

CBF

You need both. I'm not sure it matters in which order you do it. A strong OL would certainly help speed up the learning process for a young/inexperienced QB. So maybe build the strong OL first, but don't pass up on a good QB if one is available before the line is fully built.
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This question has never been up for debate. There is only one most important position in all of sports and it is not an offensive lineman.

 

That said, I will once again remind us that building teams has never been a linear process. If you have a chance to snag a blue chip lineman vs. an average QB, you take the blue chipper every time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

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This question has never been up for debate. There is only one most important position in all of sports and it is not an offensive lineman.

 

That said, I will once again remind us that building teams has never been a linear process. If you have a chance to snag a blue chip lineman vs. an average QB, you take the blue chipper every time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

This.

Agreed, but why are the Chargers with franchise QB Rivers 3-8 ?

 

Because you need more than just a franchise QB. It is still the ultimate team game even if the QB is by far the most important player.

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