Doug Flutie Band Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Or they could just be right Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Nope. Yup. Edited October 30, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 This is a very surprising and refreshing thread on TBD. I was expecting the standard "they cheat!!!", "**********," "they cheat!!!" responses. While there were some, it seems most have a grip on reality. Best team ever? If not, certainly up for discussion. Proud of you, TBD. There's a fine line between smart and cheating. When it becomes cheating, it's NOT smart, it's just plain old cheating. Your opinion is just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 This is a very surprising and refreshing thread on TBD. I was expecting the standard "they cheat!!!", "**********," "they cheat!!!" responses. While there were some, it seems most have a grip on reality. Best team ever? If not, certainly up for discussion. I will never consider the Patsies** to be one of the best teams because they cheat. Their "success" is TAINTED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 If Peyton Manning could still throw Denver would give them a game but he tosses nice soft picks right to the other freaking team! BTW I am a huge Manning fan so I am so sad to see this. I wish Denver had good ole Wade last year or in 2013 since most of the players on D are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Why don't you steal from your employer or employee or family if the ends justify the means and you would rather win by cheating than not win at all, or at the very least advocate that as a totally acceptable worldview.In no way is it acceptable to cheat like the Pats have (and read the ESPN article if you haven't. Amazing stuff like having their people wander the opponent's sideline wearing vests identifying themselves as "press"). What I'm saying is that the obsession to get an edge applies in everything they do. It's no different than a successful corporation skirting antitrust laws to keep an edge over competition. Microsoft was at the top of the world when it rigged Windows to default to Internet Explorer. Other companies steal trade secrets all the time. It's wrong, it's often illegal, but ... The penalties for getting caught are generally smaller than the rewards for doing it. And in the Pats case, even when they DID get caught in spygate, the penalty fell way short of the benefits that spying program had provided for years. There's no "they're the best" vs. "they're cheaters" argument here. They're both. So were some of the great corporations in our history. In fact (and at the risk of going all Bernie Sanders on you), sometimes the drive to kill the competition goes hand in hand with the willingness to bend or break the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 "We call him 'The Deflator' because he lost so much weight." . Greatest ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Because I'd rather not go to prison?Fair enough. Baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So the choice is rant on about it or play along. Practical thinking dictates you play the game in the way the system is designed. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) +1The system is designed such that video taping the other team's signals and letting air out of the football after the ref writes his girlfriend's initials on it is forbidden. It is also forbidden for coaches to talk to the QB on the helmet radio 15 second prior to the play clock running out. Ask Flutie about that one. Plus whatever else their doing we just don't know about yet. Edited October 31, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 "We call him 'The Deflator' because he lost so much weight." . Greatest ever. Can't find a photo of The Deflator since he's been reinstated -- has he actually deflated at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felonious Monk Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) BB, I'm sure one day I'll fully agree with one of your posts. Different train, but at least we're on the same track this time. I posted something positive about Brady last week that I thought for sure was going to elicit venom. It didn't happen. So I'll try it again to see if that was a fluke: I HATE Brady. But for as much as I hate him, I respect someone who can put a major scandal behind him and prove the doubters wrong. He's so good that he doesn't need to cheat. With a 7-0 start he has earned the right to scream it into a megaphone while brandishing two middle fingers high in the air at midfield. But he doesn't do that. He's smug. And that ticks people off way more. He knows it, and he's loving every minute of this season. Brady was the joke this past offseason. He bode his time and effortlessly turned the tables on his critics (AKA pretty much anyone who is not a Pats fan). Who saw that coming? I sure didn't. The Pats are nothing special on the surface. But Brady has the ability to temporarily transform practice-squad-type players into all stars -- then back to scrubs when they leave for another team. He has done this for most of his career (scandal, no scandal, Gronk, no Gronk). I have never witnessed anyone else play at this level as well -- for this long -- in any sport -- with nearly zero supporting cast -- while winning championships. Disgusted as I am to write this, there's "elite" and there's "Brady." And I think the history books will share this sentiment, sans the asterisk. My saving grace is that by then, I probably won't be around to read 'em. It's bad enough that I have to witness it. Edited October 31, 2015 by Felonious Monk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) He's so good that he doesn't need to cheat. Why does he if he doesn't need to? Edited October 31, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felonious Monk Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Why does he if he doesn't need to? I wasn't aware there was proof of him cheating this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The system is designed such that video taping the other team's signals and letting air out of the football after the ref writes his girlfriend's initials on it is forbidden. It is also forbidden for coaches to talk to the QB on the helmet radio 15 second prior to the play clock running out. Ask Flutie about that one. When it happens for so long, people tend to get used to it. They'd be great without it, but hey, they're the Pats*** Why stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I wasn't aware there was proof of him cheating this year. The preponderance of the evidence was convincing IMHO. HE didn't get off because he didn't do it. He got off because the NFL never told him if he altered the footballs after the refs inspected them he could be suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Why does he if he doesn't need to? Because people (and organizations) that are driven to win at any cost will do that. Even when they don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 When it happens for so long, people tend to get used to it. They'd be great without it, but hey, they're the Pats*** Why stop? I'll never get used to it. I don't know if they'd be great without it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I wasn't aware there was proof of him cheating this year. I honestly don't think Brady is the master mind (though he's complicit) - it's Belicheat behind all of this. The Master Cheater. But there's no doubt in my mind they keep to the Lance Armstrong model - sure, try to catch me. I'm WAY ahead of you. They'd still beat us, but that's how cocky they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felonious Monk Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I honestly don't think Brady is the master mind (though he's complicit) - it's Belicheat behind all of this. The Master Cheater. But there's no doubt in my mind they keep to the Lance Armstrong model - sure, try to catch me. I'm WAY ahead of you. They'd still beat us, but that's how cocky they are. It's a valid argument, and I have thought about it. At the end of the day, is it the guy who finds the winning pieces or the guy who makes them appear to be good? The reason I give Brady more of the credit is that despite all of his wheeling and dealing, Belichick's drafts usually are pretty average. He's really good at identifying other teams' castoffs, but they're still castoffs with low ceilings. Brady is the one who has to make it work with them. I would love to see them split up at some point, provided Brady plays one season, and it's for an NFC team not located in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever. Like Lance Armstrong was the best cyclist ever, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Kachy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The Pats are the greatest franchise ever. Brady is the best QB in the league and maybe in history. For a 5th round pick, he has done very well. The win year in and year out. Watching that Fins game, their defense is getting over looked because the O is so good. When Brady retires, the Bills may have a chance to beat them, but until then, the Bills will be battling for second place every year. I hate the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 The Pats are the greatest franchise ever. Brady is the best QB in the league and maybe in history. For a 5th 6th round pick, he has done very well. The win year in and year out. Watching that Fins game, their defense is getting over looked because the O is so good. When Brady retires, the Bills may have a chance to beat them, but until then, the Bills will be battling for second place every year. I hate the Pats. he says he wants to play ten more years and with all the protection QBs get he just might :death: I agree. its the 15 yrs in this day and age that is unprecedented. i get the offense with Brady, best ever by far in my mind. But the D last night was outstanding, and they got rid of all those guys! bet Branch and Chandler are loving over there, now I wish Freddie went there I know you're a young'un but you should really look at the records of the 50's Browns, the 60's Packers, the 70's Steelers, the 80's San Fran 49'ers, and the 90's Cowboys before claiming that the Cheats are the "OMG Best Ever." None of those teams needed to bend and twist the rules to dominate the NFL. They just went out and kicked azz. And before you start spouting the Brady nonsense, look up Otto Graham, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Montana/Young, and Aikman's accomplishments and remember those guys did it in an era when QB's didn't wear dresses and receivers could be defended against all over the field. I should have said the Brady years but have any of those teams won as much as the Pats over a 15 yr period, I think not. I'm not that young I was around for Steelers, 9ers and Cowboys and they are better than them The only reason they have been good for the last decade and a half is that they are located in a populous US city with an owner who has tied the team inextricably to the media and other lucrative entities. Bad Billy Bellicheat wasn't so good when he was coaching in Cleveland, was he? and that is relevant how? Man, do I really have to log onto a Bills' board to see a thread titled, "New England; Greatest Franchise Ever." Just come to my house and kick me in the balls already. Almost as hard to swallow is the incorrect use of a semicolon. would colon be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Dog Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 If you want to call them the greatest ever, you can't discount the rest of their history. I'll put Pittsburgh ahead of them. New England has won all their Super Bowls with Brady and Belacheat will they be the same if they bothe retire tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm going to take an unpopular position here ... since you "now" that the Pat's cheated -- can you explain how they did that? And if ball inflation is such a big deal, why has Brady thrown 20 TDS with one fluky pick with balls that are probably measured every 10 mins? Spygate didn't make a difference, and neither did the ball inflation. The Pats just have a brilliant coach WHO KNOWS THE RULES and COACHES HIS PLAYERS TO KNOW THE RULES. Look at the brilliant eligibility plays last playoffs as an example. Rather than jealous fans repeatedly trashing this franchise, how about striving to be more like them? They are a model franchise. So stop with the "cheating" stuff ... it just makes you look like a sore loser. Just build a better team. That's it. saying they cheated has nothing to do with being a sore loser it's just the facts. As you can I appreciate their ability to win. The 1950s Cleveland Browns say hi. would that be 50 through 65 Real nice. Because of you, I just yelled at my secretary. better give her a bonus to make up for it The thing is Miami played pretty well on D for the first half yet they still quickly got right up to 30 pts. The only way to beat them is to play an almost perfect game on defense (Which will hold them to 15 points per half) and a perfect game on offense. Zero turnovers, and score 7's almost every time you are across the 50. Anything less and you are going to lose. The Bengals might be able to lose to them 37-30 in the playoffs. I think the only way to beat them is jam up their WRs and double Gronk and pressure up the middle ( the complete opposite of master mind Rex) I’m on board with this suggestion. I don’t have time to run any analysis but the fact that this team has been this good for this long suggests they’re in the discussion. In the Tom Brady era, this team is 177-54. In 14 full seasons, they have 13 double-digit win seasons and average 12 wins a year. This year will make it 14 out of 15. To put it in Bills perspective, our beloved Bills have 13 in their entire history! The Bills best 14-year stretch, 1987-2000, they were 139-84, just a shade under 10 wins per season on average. And just because someone mentioned the Steelers, I looked at their records too. In the 1970s, their glory years, over their best 14 year stretch, they compiled a 137-67 record from 1972-1985. The Steelers had more losses in fewer games than the Pats. To standardize for comparison purposes because of 14-game seasons, the win percentages here are: Pats-79%; Bills-62%; Steelers-67%. The only two teams, I think from a quick review, that are close are the 80s-90s 49ers and the Cowboys in the late 60s and into the 70s. The 49ers actually had a nice 18 year run when they had a winning percentage 74% (207-72) and their best 14 year stretch was 166-56 for a winning percentage of 75%. Both these teams over their best 14 years still had a winning percentage below the Pats. Now everyone wants to now say “See, the 49ers did it for 18 years.” True but I have to responses to that argument. The first, the Pats aren’t done. This is year 15 and they’ll at a minimum keep the wining percentage around 80% (that’s a simple 12-4 record this year, meaning they go 5-4 the rest of the way, not happening). The second is the term “dynasty” implies power and control for a long period of time. Translate that to football and it means winning and winning championships over a long period of time. For these teams, no one had a longer stretch between their first and last Super Bowls. The Pats won it in 2001 (Brady’s first year) and again in 2014, so their first and 14th seasons. The best the was the 49ers who had 12 seasons as a run. An early post stated to go back and look at the dinosaurs like Otto Graham. Great, you can do that and try to compare eras. But that was an era with less teams and players who were drastically less skilled than today’s players. It’s like arguing that the Model T is the best car ever because it had a larger market share in its time than other cars. It doesn’t hold up. These QBs total, all of them, are more physically gifted, in shape, and year round athletes than they were then. The game is way more complicated now than then, on both sides of the ball. Players are faster and the game happens faster. So guys like Brady have to be not just physically gifted but I have always argued intellectually gifted. They have to both process and execute faster and faster. There’s just no comparison that you can make that suggests Otto Graham or anyone of prior eras were better QBs than Brady until you get into the 1980s. Even then, Brady is better than everyone from Montana to Young to Aikman to Manning. He just is. That’s doesn’t sit well with Bills fans (I am one) because he destroys this team annually, but the fact remain indisputable. At 38, he’s better than Kelly was in his prime. Those that want to suggest cheating has something to do with it, I don’t dismiss that out of hand. Many want, no need, that narrative to help them cope. You still want to believe it to help you distance yourself from the reality that is this team, coach, owner, and QB. Gronk is open all the time not because of cheating, as someone wondered early, he’s open because he’s awesome and their scheme is awesome and he gets the ball because their QB is awesome. What matters above all else is execution. What you see week in and week out right now is precise execution. The perception of cheating, or reality, can't overcome what we see. Guys have to block, run, get open, and throw the ball. That still matters right? that's what I was thinking but no way in the world was I looking it up, well done sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 This is a very surprising and refreshing thread on TBD. I was expecting the standard "they cheat!!!", "**********," "they cheat!!!" responses. While there were some, it seems most have a grip on reality. Best team ever? If not, certainly up for discussion. Proud of you, TBD. Me too, did not expect this much agreement BB, I'm sure one day I'll fully agree with one of your posts. Different train, but at least we're on the same track this time. I posted something positive about Brady last week that I thought for sure was going to elicit venom. It didn't happen. So I'll try it again to see if that was a fluke: I HATE Brady. But for as much as I hate him, I respect someone who can put a major scandal behind him and prove the doubters wrong. He's so good that he doesn't need to cheat. With a 7-0 start he has earned the right to scream it into a megaphone while brandishing two middle fingers high in the air at midfield. But he doesn't do that. He's smug. And that ticks people off way more. He knows it, and he's loving every minute of this season. Brady was the joke this past offseason. He bode his time and effortlessly turned the tables on his critics (AKA pretty much anyone who is not a Pats fan). Who saw that coming? I sure didn't. The Pats are nothing special on the surface. But Brady has the ability to temporarily transform practice-squad-type players into all stars -- then back to scrubs when they leave for another team. He has done this for most of his career (scandal, no scandal, Gronk, no Gronk). I have never witnessed anyone else play at this level as well -- for this long -- in any sport -- with nearly zero supporting cast -- while winning championships. Disgusted as I am to write this, there's "elite" and there's "Brady." And I think the history books will share this sentiment, sans the asterisk. My saving grace is that by then, I probably won't be around to read 'em. It's bad enough that I have to witness it. I think the whole deflate gate saga has given Brady and the rest of the team a huge chip on their shoulders, Thanks Roger It's a valid argument, and I have thought about it. At the end of the day, is it the guy who finds the winning pieces or the guy who makes them appear to be good? The reason I give Brady more of the credit is that despite all of his wheeling and dealing, Belichick's drafts usually are pretty average. He's really good at identifying other teams' castoffs, but they're still castoffs with low ceilings. Brady is the one who has to make it work with them. I would love to see them split up at some point, provided Brady plays one season, and it's for an NFC team not located in Dallas. If Brady could win a Superbowl here that would be hands down no questions asked, prove that he is the greatest of all time (and I would be in full favor of this for the record ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I hate to admit but New England just might be the best football franchise ever. I can't think of team that has been this dominant for this long as them. I now they cheated but you still have to make the plays on the field and that they have done. 6 Superbowl appearances 4 wins, division champs almost every year for 15 yrs against a league built on parity is unprecedented . I should have said the Brady years but have any of those teams won as much as the Pats over a 15 yr period, I think not. I'm not that young I was around for Steelers, 9ers and Cowboys and they are better than them The Cleveland Browns from 1946 to 1960 went 143-37-6 for a winning % of 79.4 and won 7 Championships in 9 playoff appearances. Your OP simply says Football Franchise it doesn't specify NFL Football so by YOUR original premise the AAFC years count. I have no doubt you'll claim that you meant NFL but it's too late now. The Packers won 5 Championships in 7 years (including the first two Super Bowls) The Steelers won 4 Super Bowls in 6 years The Cowboys (and the Cheats) won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years The 49ers won 5 Super Bowls in 14 years never losing a Super Bowl during that time. The Cheats have won 4 Super Bowls (and lost 2 Super Bowls) in 15 years. The Cheats are in the discussion for best ever but it's nowhere near as definitive as you claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Pete Carroll's USC juggernaut was at one time not long ago considered the greatest college football program in the history of college football. Now, it's relegated to a 30 on 30 documentary. That's where the Patriots will be. In the present, yes, you could argue that they are the greatest franchise the NFL has ever seen. In the future, after all the stories come out about all the cheating, espionage and gamesmanship tactics, they will be the Pete Rose of NFL franchises. Greatness forgotten, the cheating the only thing fans remember. What I dislike most about the Patriots is not the on field dominance of the Bills or the AFC East. What I hate most is that Kraft and Company will do anything to win and to make money and the NFL is along for that ride and that Kraft, a single owner in a sea of them, really runs this league and this business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanCity Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I believe they cheat, but I know they win. I don't respect their tactics, but I respect their record. Brady is the devil, in the form of a football god. Polarizing? The very definition. But every team for the past 15 seasons has feared playing them, and you cannot say that about any other franchise. damn, I hate having to say it, but the OP is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It is proven that they cheat. Their reputation is tarnished and not one person trusts them. They should be removed from all record books and Brady and Belly forever banished from the Hall. The integrity of the game has been compromised. - The smell just won't go away!! Imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 49ers are right there with them, with the 5 SB rings and no losses in 14 years. But IMO they are every bit as good as those 49er teams. Maybe not better but an argument can be made. If they aren't #1 they are in the top few of all time, so it really doesn't matter where you rank them in that group. They are part of it. It's actually amazing that they lost 2 Super Bowls to the Giants of all teams. The Giants were really good but in both of those years the Patriots* were unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 No doubt the Pats are the greatest franchise of this century. All time, probably the Packers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The Pats cheating ways will be found out sooner than later. IMO everyone on every team including the NFL itself is weary and suspect the Pats of cheating, and everybody is paying a lot more attention of things that look out of place and what the Pats are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Turns out, NFL coaches are paranoid, delusional conspiracy theorist, jealous, hate em cause they aint em, 1 psi whinnig, over-scrutinizing….YAWWWWN http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/10/30/jets-patriots-listening-devices-nfl/ http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-investigated-patriots-sideline-staff-after-1739801281?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow Not happening when people visit the Seahawks and the Pack I gather. Edited October 31, 2015 by filthymcnasty08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The Pats cheating ways will be found out sooner than later. IMO everyone on every team including the NFL itself is weary and suspect the Pats of cheating, and everybody is paying a lot more attention of things that look out of place and what the Pats are doing. People here have dismissed it, but I can easily see the Patriots being framed. Like the current sweep of the Jets locker room for bugs. There are other teams with people just as corrupt as the Patriots, so nothing would surprise me. It would be easy to plant a camera, or a microphone, and the Patriots would be assumed guilty. It wouldn't need to be proven, because...well, look at this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 People here have dismissed it, but I can easily see the Patriots being framed. Like the current sweep of the Jets locker room for bugs. There are other teams with people just as corrupt as the Patriots, so nothing would surprise me. It would be easy to plant a camera, or a microphone, and the Patriots would be assumed guilty. It wouldn't need to be proven, because...well, look at this board their history of being caught doing it and having the league cover it up. fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 If they were truly the greatest ever they would not need to cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 People here have dismissed it, but I can easily see the Patriots being framed. Like the current sweep of the Jets locker room for bugs. There are other teams with people just as corrupt as the Patriots, so nothing would surprise me. It would be easy to plant a camera, or a microphone, and the Patriots would be assumed guilty. It wouldn't need to be proven, because...well, look at this board. The usual ridiculous "everyone else does it", "you're all just jealous" crap when no one else has had ANYWHERE near as much crap both proven and suspected about them. As two separate NFL Competition Committee members told the NYT in 2007, "it was one team, and one team only, brought before us over and over again on allegations of cheating." Guess who that was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Fair enough. Baby. awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yuck to this entire thread. Did not read pages 3-8 Page 1 and 2 sounds like a pats love fest. Get a room with Brady, guys. I hate them. The real reality is they have benefited from being in a very bad division. Period. That's it. So they are dominant, so freaking what!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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