Not Impressed With Roman Today

[John from Riverside]

 

Kelly says you know football, but really, I don't follow the logic "not sure Roman can go out and win a game with the mentality he showed today" when our team led all the way and was up 24-zip after a very long drive in the 2nd half. I mean, the mentality a guy shows when he's up 24 pts is just not the mentality a guy shows when he's down 24 points and how can you judge one from the other? I think Roman is constitutionally opposed to putting more on film for the next opponent than he has to, JMO. Keep in mind Watkins has been out with injury, he and Tyrod are still reportedly working on their timing, and Watkins may not be all the way back. If we don't see him targeted week after week I'll worry. I'd be worried also if Taylor ignored him to fix on one guy, but he spread it around. We didn't see a lot from Clay, either.

 

Targets got distributed, handoffs got distributed. McCoy's running stats would look better without all the holding call backs (19 yds and a TD by my count)

 

Things I saw that I didn't like on offense:

1) all those f*@!# holding penalties, especially on Wood and Glenn. How many was that, 4, just split on the 2 of them?

 

Didnt like those either.....

2) even with all the holding penalties, the line's run blocking was not "all that". Either McCoy isn't all the way back yet, or we really need an answer here. McCoy needs run blocking. He's not a guy who creates holes for himself.

 

The run blocking scheme is very very complex. It might be a while before they get it all the way down.

 

 

3) Tyrod's ball security. I know, I know, it was raining. I know, I know, it was very heads-up of him to recover the fumble and knock the batted pass to the ground before a defender nabbed it. But man, hang onto the rock and don't throw at opposing linemen in the first place.

 

Tyrod did not "throw" the ball at a opposing offensive linemen.....there was a blocker that had the assignment of getting the defender's hands down and he couldnt do it. This happens to all QBs but is especially going to happen to a 6' quarterback so we are going to see some of that......in fact Tyrod showed excellent ball security by have the awareness to KNOCK the ball down and kill the play.

 

On the handoff....it was raining...it was wet....and we dont know if this was the center's fault or his on the exchange. In any case Tyrod's ball security the whole game was pretty excellent.....zero picks to Lucks 2.

 

 

4) OK, the chop block penalty on Clay was bogus, but the personal foul penalties on D and ST have got to go. We did not look like a well-coached team in that regard. Listen to Marv Levy guys: "Don't be dumb, don't be dirty".

 

Sure wish they would have replayed some of these calls.....half the time they didnt even give numbers.

 

 

5) Communication errors or whatever it was that left receivers uncovered. Get it straight before next week, guys. Brady was watching, taking notes, and naming names.

 

This was a pretty dominant effort by the defense.....especially considering we were rotating safeties and corners into the game because of injury.

 

Things I saw that I liked:

1) poise and vision from Tyrod. He didn't look like a guy starting his first game. He looked like It. Keep it up, Tyrod.

2) Karlos Williams. He hit the hole hard, even when there wasn't much hole. Stay healthy, and he's got a future IMO. That combination of size and speed is hard to defend.

3) All the passes to McCoy. He and Tyrod must be saying "I think this is the start of a beautiful relationship". Free Shady from the need for a run blocking line, and stand back.

4) Very solid tackling. We looked, for a change, like a well-coached team in that regard

5) Nickell Robey. All game. But especially when Andrew Luck was wearing him. Brady would also look very nice in that outfit (the Nickell Robey look) though I'm not fussy - Brady would look great wearing anyone in a Bills uniform, provided he's down on the ground making that "uuuuuuuhhhh" noise Bruce Smith loved.

 

An interesting difference between Luck and Brady.......Lucky will shake pressure and hits off like it never happened (although he wasnt last night especially in the 1st half) while these things really affect Brady badly. They still have to play the game but I STILL believe that this defense knows exactly how to defend Brady. We just need our offense to score enough points to win.

[klos63]

 

sure it does you don't open up more of the playbook if you don't have to. Don't want to show off to much stuff for the next opponent

you gameplan for a specific opponent based on their strengths and weaknesses, I think the goal of each game is to win first and not worry about 'exposing' your playbook. And just because you use a play today doesn't mean you have to use it next week. This really isn't that complicated.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

you gameplan for a specific opponent based on their strengths and weaknesses, I think the goal of each game is to win first and not worry about 'exposing' your playbook. And just because you use a play today doesn't mean you have to use it next week. This really isn't that complicated.

 

Right, win first....up 24 points late in the 3rd quarter, Check! First things first, but then fine, move on to second things - like the less you show, the less intel on you the next opponents get

[xsoldier54]

My largest complaint was that if you took out the long runs by McCoy and Williams, our yards per carry were right around or under 2.

 

Also with 3 turnovers we basically tied ToP. Obviously this is linked to above and being able to run the ball consistently.

But why would you take them out? They do count and with them the average is both accurate and higher. Why would you want to take out two of the most successful running plays and then say that we didn't run the ball effectively? doesn't make sense.

[klos63]

But why would you take them out? They do count and with them the average is both accurate and higher. Why would you want to take out two of the most successful running plays and then say that we didn't run the ball effectively? doesn't make sense.

exactly, people do this all the time. If you take away the 80 yard TD run, he only ran for 50 yards..... duh

[NoSaint]

But why would you take them out? They do count and with them the average is both accurate and higher. Why would you want to take out two of the most successful running plays and then say that we didn't run the ball effectively? doesn't make sense.

because a scramble on a broken play by tyrod or an outlier run can really skew the sense of effectiveness of the run game? i think its fair to look through both lenses when trying to figure out how things went.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

 

3) Tyrod's ball security. I know, I know, it was raining. I know, I know, it was very heads-up of him to recover the fumble and knock the batted pass to the ground before a defender nabbed it. But man, hang onto the rock and don't throw at opposing linemen in the first place.

 

Tyrod did not "throw" the ball at a opposing offensive linemen.....there was a blocker that had the assignment of getting the defender's hands down and he couldnt do it. This happens to all QBs but is especially going to happen to a 6' quarterback so we are going to see some of that......in fact Tyrod showed excellent ball security by have the awareness to KNOCK the ball down and kill the play.

 

On the handoff....it was raining...it was wet....and we dont know if this was the center's fault or his on the exchange. In any case Tyrod's ball security the whole game was pretty excellent.....zero picks to Lucks 2.

 

5) Communication errors or whatever it was that left receivers uncovered. Get it straight before next week, guys. Brady was watching, taking notes, and naming names.

 

This was a pretty dominant effort by the defense.....especially considering we were rotating safeties and corners into the game because of injury.

 

Things I saw that I liked:

1) poise and vision from Tyrod. He didn't look like a guy starting his first game. He looked like It. Keep it up, Tyrod.

2) Karlos Williams. He hit the hole hard, even when there wasn't much hole. Stay healthy, and he's got a future IMO. That combination of size and speed is hard to defend.

3) All the passes to McCoy. He and Tyrod must be saying "I think this is the start of a beautiful relationship". Free Shady from the need for a run blocking line, and stand back.

4) Very solid tackling. We looked, for a change, like a well-coached team in that regard

5) Nickell Robey. All game. But especially when Andrew Luck was wearing him. Brady would also look very nice in that outfit (the Nickell Robey look) though I'm not fussy - Brady would look great wearing anyone in a Bills uniform, provided he's down on the ground making that "uuuuuuuhhhh" noise Bruce Smith loved.

 

An interesting difference between Luck and Brady.......Lucky will shake pressure and hits off like it never happened (although he wasnt last night especially in the 1st half) while these things really affect Brady badly. They still have to play the game but I STILL believe that this defense knows exactly how to defend Brady. We just need our offense to score enough points to win.

 

John, with all respect...once the blocker did not execute, Taylor DID throw at an opposing lineman. We're all aware of his height challenge, I imagine he is, our coaches are, opposing coaches are, opposing lineman are. That is exactly why it's so critical for him to be aware of, and not throw at, guys who have the chance to batt balls they might not reach from another QB.

 

Yes, overall, as I said, Tyrod looked like IT. But the weather will get colder, the ball will be slippery and hard to hang on to, and evidently we are a bit shaky at center. So those are legitimate points for improvement - do you really disagree?

 

Regarding Brady: it's a point repeated so often that it's become a truism that the way to affect Brady is to hit him hard and often. IMO it's not really true. Brady could care less if he gets pressure providing he successfully dumps off to Gronk or Edelman and gets 5-7 yds out of a down. He'll nibble opponents to death all day like that, waiting for his receivers to break some long YAC. (Look it up - Brady gets something like half his credited passing yards as YAC, near the top of the league at that.) He's the classic "live by the Blitz, die by the Blitz" QB. The way to beat Brady is to cover the middle like a blanket, take away his outlets and keep him contained, and then pressure. He gets rattled when he can't execute his plans and is forced into coverage sacks by pressure. The textbook Brady defense was the NYJ playoff game in 2010. The reason more teams don't repeat it is, it's hard to execute. Again, JMO.

[Coach Tuesday]

Regarding Brady: it's a point repeated so often that it's become a truism that the way to affect Brady is to hit him hard and often. IMO it's not really true. Brady could care less if he gets pressure providing he successfully dumps off to Gronk or Edelman and gets 5-7 yds out of a down. He'll nibble opponents to death all day like that, waiting for his receivers to break some long YAC. (Look it up - Brady gets something like half his credited passing yards as YAC, near the top of the league at that.) He's the classic "live by the Blitz, die by the Blitz" QB. The way to beat Brady is to cover the middle like a blanket, take away his outlets and keep him contained, and then pressure. He gets rattled when he can't execute his plans and is forced into coverage sacks by pressure. The textbook Brady defense was the NYJ playoff game in 2010. The reason more teams don't repeat it is, it's hard to execute. Again, JMO.

 

This is correct and the thing is - the Bills have the personnel to do this. They were really forcing tight coverage windows yesterday and it took some perfect passes from Luck to sustain the two drives that they were successful in. Do the same thing to the Pats, and with Dareus back they can fold the pocket like an aluminum can.

 

Back to the offense - I'm still griping about not hitting Watkins on his crossing routes over the middle. There were several times when he was running free. Those kinds of plays with YAC move the chains and, while you can't really complain about the result, it should've been a lot less close than it was. Get the ball to your best playmaker and let him work please, especially against the Pats' secondary which is even worse than the Colts...

[thebandit27]

because a scramble on a broken play by tyrod or an outlier run can really skew the sense of effectiveness of the run game? i think its fair to look through both lenses when trying to figure out how things went.

 

Yes, it's absolutely fair.

 

There's also the context of the game plan to consider (not saying you didn't/aren't). Teams that like to pound the ball are sometimes the nova-cane style; just keep hitting the opposing front 7 as hard as you can until they leak, at which time you hit them for a big gain. That's one of the reasons that Karlos Williams was able to break off a big run for a TD at the end of the first half IMO.

 

It remains true, however, that opening bigger holes more consistently is important for this OL. I did notice that they had most of their success running from a 2-TE set, but that's pretty common when playing a 30 front because the edge defenders are wider and set further away from the OL, which allows them to crash down more easily.

[NoSaint]

 

Yes, it's absolutely fair.

 

There's also the context of the game plan to consider (not saying you didn't/aren't). Teams that like to pound the ball are sometimes the nova-cane style; just keep hitting the opposing front 7 as hard as you can until they leak, at which time you hit them for a big gain. That's one of the reasons that Karlos Williams was able to break off a big run for a TD at the end of the first half IMO.

 

It remains true, however, that opening bigger holes more consistently is important for this OL. I did notice that they had most of their success running from a 2-TE set, but that's pretty common when playing a 30 front because the edge defenders are wider and set further away from the OL, which allows them to crash down more easily.

definitely part of it too. that is why i think theres value looking at the stats a few different ways and seeing what story they tell.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

This is correct and the thing is - the Bills have the personnel to do this. They were really forcing tight coverage windows yesterday and it took some perfect passes from Luck to sustain the two drives that they were successful in. Do the same thing to the Pats, and with Dareus back they can fold the pocket like an aluminum can.

 

Back to the offense - I'm still griping about not hitting Watkins on his crossing routes over the middle. There were several times when he was running free. Those kinds of plays with YAC move the chains and, while you can't really complain about the result, it should've been a lot less close than it was. Get the ball to your best playmaker and let him work please, especially against the Pats' secondary which is even worse than the Colts...

 

Actually, wasn't this the knock on Taylor in TC, that he wasn't good at those intermediate routes over the middle?

 

Yes, it's absolutely fair.

 

There's also the context of the game plan to consider (not saying you didn't/aren't). Teams that like to pound the ball are sometimes the nova-cane style; just keep hitting the opposing front 7 as hard as you can until they leak, at which time you hit them for a big gain. That's one of the reasons that Karlos Williams was able to break off a big run for a TD at the end of the first half IMO.

 

It remains true, however, that opening bigger holes more consistently is important for this OL. I did notice that they had most of their success running from a 2-TE set, but that's pretty common when playing a 30 front because the edge defenders are wider and set further away from the OL, which allows them to crash down more easily.

 

Well there's two sides. One is what I told my kid over and over, she and her friends would be all "if I hit that free throw at the beginning of the 2nd half we would have won". But if you change a play, or take out a play, it's a different ballgame. You just can't say that. So I don't buy that "if you take out those two big runs, our run game sucked" stuff.

 

The other is that Roman is well-known, like a chessmaster, for running a relatively ineffective play a couple times and then, when the D is content with their pattern recognition and keys on what they expect, giving them the same look then running a different play from the same formation for a big gain. I couldn't get the whole game, so I don't know if that was going on.

 

Bottom line though, all seem to agree that our OL needs to get better and TT needs to take a hard look at whether he was leaving plays on the field with an open Sammy.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Hopeful

[thebandit27]

 

Well there's two sides. One is what I told my kid over and over, she and her friends would be all "if I hit that free throw at the beginning of the 2nd half we would have won". But if you change a play, or take out a play, it's a different ballgame. You just can't say that. So I don't buy that "if you take out those two big runs, our run game sucked" stuff.

 

The other is that Roman is well-known, like a chessmaster, for running a relatively ineffective play a couple times and then, when the D is content with their pattern recognition and keys on what they expect, giving them the same look then running a different play from the same formation for a big gain. I couldn't get the whole game, so I don't know if that was going on.

 

Bottom line though, all seem to agree that our OL needs to get better and TT needs to take a hard look at whether he was leaving plays on the field with an open Sammy.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement on all of that, Hopeful.

 

I'll be interested to see if they play more '21' personnel this week given that NE**** likes to play with 4 down linemen. Yesterday, 2-TE was definitely the way to go.

[GunnerBill]

 

Regarding Brady: it's a point repeated so often that it's become a truism that the way to affect Brady is to hit him hard and often. IMO it's not really true. Brady could care less if he gets pressure providing he successfully dumps off to Gronk or Edelman and gets 5-7 yds out of a down. He'll nibble opponents to death all day like that, waiting for his receivers to break some long YAC. (Look it up - Brady gets something like half his credited passing yards as YAC, near the top of the league at that.) He's the classic "live by the Blitz, die by the Blitz" QB. The way to beat Brady is to cover the middle like a blanket, take away his outlets and keep him contained, and then pressure. He gets rattled when he can't execute his plans and is forced into coverage sacks by pressure. The textbook Brady defense was the NYJ playoff game in 2010. The reason more teams don't repeat it is, it's hard to execute. Again, JMO.

 

100% agree. People often think you beat Brady by blitzing him - you don't. You beat him by confusing him. He doesn't stand back behind his line changing the play 4 times like Peyton Manning but he is no less effective pre-snap. If he knows what is coming he will find the weak spot and beat it whether you send 3, 4, 5 or all 11. I actually think Rex has confused him so much in the past with linemen dropping back into coverage and guys he doesn't expect bringing pressure. That was very much the Giants plan in the Superbowl twice too and Kansas City's plan in the game he threw 4 picks last year.

 

Confuse him don't just blitz the hell out of him.

[nonprophet]

It's natural to get conservative when up 24-0.....what would you have thought if they started throwing every down after getting a big lead?

I'd think they were coached by Pete Carroll.

[#34fan]

Get a grip. He got a no-name QB ready to play. The Bills won the game in part because the offense played efficiently. Good win.

 

True... But this strategy doesn't win against massacheatsus... They're going to score points on us. We're going to have to put up points to keep pace.. Wasn't impressed with our red zone work either..

Edited September 14, 2015 by #34fan

[klos63]

Glad we won and all, but Roman neutered our offense most of the afternoon. Got the impression he didn't have confidence in Taylor nor was I impressed with his schematic designs. Got way too conservative way too early. No excuse for not targeting Sammy more than one or two times as well. Glad our defense rose to the occasion because, based on one game, I'm not sure Roman can go out and win a game with the mentality he showed today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I'm pretty happy today. We beat a team with dynamic QB that has been a super bowl contender the last couple seasons. I wasn't expecting perfection or total domination, so I felt very good about where are team is right now, realizing this is a very new offense, with new parts, a qb making his first start... and it's only one game. The main objective was to win, we did that. We ran often, had a big play pass TD, a big play rush TD, no turnovers.... kind of what we expected with this coaching staff with their reputations.

What didn't you like about his schematic designs?.... specifically please so I can understand better.

[Chewie]

GRRAAHGGGAHHAGAAUAUUAUAUAAGAGGGGAHHHRHRHRGGGGGRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

[billykaykay]

I expected the responses I've seen so far. After 18 years in this community, one can predict where certain opinions are going. And it's out of character for me to be so openly critical as well. Those who've been here a while know that. I was struck by the lack of anticipation by Roman today and I don't like coaches who don't seem to sense when we should go for the jugular. Perhaps that's coming, but right now it appears he doesn't have the confidence to do so yet. Hopefully that will come as he learns what he has.

 

I have much higher expectations for this team, apparently.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Agreed. That aspect of the game was impressive.

 

GO BILLS!!!

How exactly does a team go for the "jugular" when they are up 24-0?

[#34fan]

How exactly does a team go for the "jugular" when they are up 24-0?

 

31-0, 38-0, and so on...

[nucci]

 

31-0, 38-0, and so on...

Would you have preferred the Bills to take some chances in the 4th qtr, which could have possibly led to some turnovers? I'm amazed at some of the the criticisms directed at this team after crushing an alleged SB contender.

[bladiebla]

Regarding Brady: it's a point repeated so often that it's become a truism that the way to affect Brady is to hit him hard and often. IMO it's not really true. Brady could care less if he gets pressure providing he successfully dumps off to Gronk or Edelman and gets 5-7 yds out of a down. He'll nibble opponents to death all day like that, waiting for his receivers to break some long YAC. (Look it up - Brady gets something like half his credited passing yards as YAC, near the top of the league at that.) He's the classic "live by the Blitz, die by the Blitz" QB. The way to beat Brady is to cover the middle like a blanket, take away his outlets and keep him contained, and then pressure. He gets rattled when he can't execute his plans and is forced into coverage sacks by pressure. The textbook Brady defense was the NYJ playoff game in 2010. The reason more teams don't repeat it is, it's hard to execute. Again, JMO.

 

This, so much this!

Would you have preferred the Bills to take some chances in the 4th qtr, which could have possibly led to some turnovers? I'm amazed at some of the the criticisms directed at this team after crushing an alleged SB contender.

 

!5 years of teams collapsing, a team with a reputation of being a great 4th quarter team closing in to 2 TDS with 2 FC, we're going to loose it if Roman doesn't get his act together and put more points on the board is what people were thinking.

[klos63]

 

This, so much this!

 

!5 years of teams collapsing, a team with a reputation of being a great 4th quarter team closing in to 2 TDS with 2 FC, we're going to loose it if Roman doesn't get his act together and put more points on the board is what people were thinking.

But we didn't lose it not even close to losing it , so maybe he did the right thing despite what all the experts here think. If we lost or almost blew it at the end because we sat on the lead, that would be one thing, but we didn't.

Edited September 14, 2015 by klos63

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Would you have preferred the Bills to take some chances in the 4th qtr, which could have possibly led to some turnovers? I'm amazed at some of the the criticisms directed at this team after crushing an alleged SB contender.

I know. Bills fans are going full derp. How can you not be impressed with how this game transpired? They blew out Colts, shut down a top 5 QB, scored 27 points in the process with the context of not having Dareus, and our center pieces for our offense had 0 catches (Watkins) and McCoy was pretty much non-existent in the run game.

 

Go Bills!

[bladiebla]

But we didn't lose it not even close to losing it , so maybe he did the right thing despite what all the experts here think. If we lost or almost blew it at the end because we sat on the lead, that would be one thing, but we didn't.

I know but I think it's an understandable sentiment coming from being fans of a loosing franchise for so long.

[NoSaint]

I know. Bills fans are going full derp. How can you not be impressed with how this game transpired? They blew out Colts, shut down a top 5 QB, scored 27 points in the process with the context of not having Dareus, and our center pieces for our offense had 0 catches (Watkins) and McCoy was pretty much non-existent in the run game.

 

Go Bills!

I'd venture ignoring Marcells absence in a thread about offensive play calling and strategy and focusing on what was going on that shut out our two best players on the offensive side of the ball is a good start for discussion here. Youre calling it a pro, some think it's a con. Seems reasonable to discuss without insult.

[klos63]

I know but I think it's an understandable sentiment coming from being fans of a loosing franchise for so long.

just the negative fans. I know a lot of fans like me since 1970 and before, we are pretty positive most of the time, especially after a great win.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

just the negative fans. I know a lot of fans like me since 1970 and before, we are pretty positive most of the time, especially after a great win.

I am realist which probably comes across on the internet in typed word as a "negative fan" and I am super impressed with how they played.

Edited September 14, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever

[vorpma]

I am realist which probably comes across on the internet in typed word as a "negative fan" and I am super impressed with how they played.

I too think they played a great game and Roman's offense did very well. This board amazes me at times!

[YattaOkasan]

 

Wasn't impressed with our red zone work either..

Were you unimpressed we didn't make it to the red zone enough???

 

Because we were 1/1 yesterday.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct/?date=2015-09-14

Edited September 14, 2015 by YattaOkasan

[nucci]

 

This, so much this!

 

!5 years of teams collapsing, a team with a reputation of being a great 4th quarter team closing in to 2 TDS with 2 FC, we're going to loose it if Roman doesn't get his act together and put more points on the board is what people were thinking.

Lose not loose and we weren't even close to losing. Come on...27 points

[Numark3]

 

Wasn't impressed with our red zone work either..

 

100% TD rate not impress you? Then boy are you in the right thread!

 

Where posters go to irrationally declare how they aren't impressed

[Malazan]

I'm not sure why people think it's a good idea to get into a shootout with Andrew Luck...

[Beef Jerky]

The OP isn't impressed... Good b.c I would be scared if he was.

Glad we won and all, but Roman neutered our offense most of the afternoon. Got the impression he didn't have confidence in Taylor nor was I impressed with his schematic designs. Got way too conservative way too early. No excuse for not targeting Sammy more than one or two times as well. Glad our defense rose to the occasion because, based on one game, I'm not sure Roman can go out and win a game with the mentality he showed today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Glad you aren't OC.