boyst Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 so he was sparked by the coverage of a killing that was committed by someone that was sparked by the trayvon killing/coverage.... great cycle starting here. that was fed by the mass media. look at the post on PPP I made which high lights a story just released an hour ago by ABC - the same station victimized by this. The story highlights how minorities, specifically blacks, are still suffering from Katrina in New Orleans and Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown impact them there. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/178954-church-shooting/page-57?do=findComment&comment=3647492 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 And as for the study data you're mentioning, what exactly is the definition of "mental illness" there? It's starting to feel like a very broad term that catches just about everything. The numbers your stating aren't really possible as I'm sure there are plenty of mentally ill who do not commit suicide, but I realize that you're trying to say there. The definition of "mental illness" is an affective disorder specified in the DSM III or DSM IV. I've seen more than a dozen studies; the least correlative was that, out of approximately 75 cases (don't have it in front of me, going from memory), 3 of them could not definitively be diagnosed as being mentally ill. The bolded: you're misunderstanding. A high correlation between suicide and mental illness means "people who commit suicide are almost always mentally ill." That does not mean the reverse - "people who are mentally ill almost always commit suicide" - is true. It's like saying "All BMW drivers are !@#$s," which does not mean that all !@#$s drive BMWs (since a lot of !@#$s drive lowered pickup trucks as well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) How they caught him... amazing VA State Patrol officer parked on offramp for several minutes along I81 and 66 (if you know the area) and had license plate identification device going. getting constant updates on suspect vehicle, got his info and her device said the vehicle went by less then 3 minutes ago, she caught up to him and got other troopers to assist. he then killed himself, saving us all much time and money. the father found out via text message. his daughter did not message him this morning as she does every day. he got messages from coworkers to update him. Edited August 26, 2015 by Boyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 How they caught him... amazing VA State Patrol officer parked on offramp for several minutes along I81 and 66 (if you know the area) and had license plate identification device going. getting constant updates on suspect vehicle, got his info and her device said the vehicle went by less then 3 minutes ago, she caught up to him and got other troopers to assist. he then killed himself, saving us all much time and money. the father found out via text message. his daughter did not message him this morning as she does every day. he got messages from coworkers to update him. I cant even imagine the heartbreak the familes must be going through right now CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I cant even imagine the heartbreak the familes must be going through right now CBF My wife rides her little scooter through crummy parts of Oakland every day coming home from BART. I've prepared myself for that notification for awhile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 My wife rides her little scooter through crummy parts of Oakland every day coming home from BART. I've prepared myself for that notification for awhile now. Well Im glad you havent had to receive that notification Chef! CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Well Im glad you havent had to receive that notification Chef! CBF You and me both. Because of the train schedule she arrives at the house pretty much the exact same time. Even if she's as little as 5 minutes late I worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The definition of "mental illness" is an affective disorder specified in the DSM III or DSM IV. I've seen more than a dozen studies; the least correlative was that, out of approximately 75 cases (don't have it in front of me, going from memory), 3 of them could not definitively be diagnosed as being mentally ill. The bolded: you're misunderstanding. A high correlation between suicide and mental illness means "people who commit suicide are almost always mentally ill." That does not mean the reverse - "people who are mentally ill almost always commit suicide" - is true. It's like saying "All BMW drivers are !@#$s," which does not mean that all !@#$s drive BMWs (since a lot of !@#$s drive lowered pickup trucks as well.) At this point this is all about semantics, but correlation does in fact work both ways. But anyway, I see where the whole thing's coming from now, they looked only among suicide cases, so obviously they can't draw any conclusion about those who did not commit suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeez... what the hell is going on up there in America? (I feel like I'm constantly having to explain American culture to people down here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeez... what the hell is going on up there in America? (I feel like I'm constantly having to explain American culture to people down here.) Guns. So awesome. Make big boom. Make me feel powerful. Everyone should have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeez... what the hell is going on up there in America? (I feel like I'm constantly having to explain American culture to people down here.) Bad things man... bad things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 My wife rides her little scooter through crummy parts of Oakland every day coming home from BART. I've prepared myself for that notification for awhile now. No offense, Chef, but... if things are that dangerous for your wife, why don't you move?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I hate guns. Perfectly fine if all guns melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Because it's never the right thing to do, to not try to save a dying human's life. bull ****. Besides, he wasn't human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I hate guns. Perfectly fine if all guns melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I will refrain my true sentiment towards guns and gun owners. In the meantime, sucks for the victims and their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 No offense, Chef, but... if things are that dangerous for your wife, why don't you move?? It's not that dangerous where we live just where she has to drive through to get home. We have a world class view of the SF Bay, Downtown SF, The Bay and GG bridges and a house that's nearly doubled in value since we bought it 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 "If everyone who had a gun just shot themselves, there wouldn't be a problem." - George Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 "If everyone who had a gun just shot themselves, there wouldn't be a problem." - George Harrison +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Time to send the troops house to house and take all guns away from everyone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Where's Jesse Jackson? Where's Al Sharpton? Where is the righteous indignation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) If people are anti-gun then they're entitled to their opinion, but it irritates me when a situation like this is exploited to advance that agenda. It's not a scientific analysis. It's purely anecdotal and appeals to emotion rather than logic. Plus, anecdotally this isn't even a good example to use for that. Does anyone honestly believe this guy couldn't have killed all 3 of those people with a crobar or a machete, or by any of a hundred other methods? Sure, the gun makes it easier, but let's be real. It's intellectually dishonest and in poor taste to claim "common sense" gun laws would have saved those people. Edited August 26, 2015 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 If people are anti-gun then they're entitled to their opinion, but it irritates me when a situation like this is exploited to advance that agenda. It's not a scientific analysis. It's purely anecdotal and appeals to emotion rather than logic. Plus, anecdotally this isn't even a good example to use for that. Does anyone honestly believe this guy couldn't have killed all 3 of those people with a crobar or a machete, or by any of a hundred other methods? Sure, the gun makes it easier, but let's be real. It's intellectually dishonest and in poor taste to claim "common sense" gun laws would have saved those people. You stand a better chance vs a machete or a crobar vs a freaking gun. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 You stand a better chance vs a machete or a crobar vs a freaking gun. Just saying Sometimes. I doubt it would have made much difference here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Sometimes. I doubt it would have made much difference here. I have not seen the video, and not planning to. So you may be right. Either way, I understand what you're saying. Guns are not going away. I just wish they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) "If everyone who had a gun just shot themselves, there wouldn't be a problem." - George Harrison George Harrison reminds of Jayden Smith. Not because they say hilarious things, but because both of them are annoying and should shut up. Jaden SmithVerified account@officialjaden If Everybody In The World Dropped Out Of School We Would Have A Much More Intelligent Society. You stand a better chance vs a machete or a crobar vs a freaking gun. Just saying you stand a good chance against a sub calibre handgun, for what its worth. it's when they repeatedly shoot you that it sucks the most. but, i'd rather have that then completely beat down by a crowbar or machette. but then again, i've seen every ISIS video and when i saw the guy get beheaded and continue to look around for about 45 seconds after his head was off i sort of decided i'd rather just be shot in the head. Edited August 26, 2015 by Boyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Where's Jesse Jackson? Where's Al Sharpton? Where is the righteous indignation? im curious how the media will treat this one -- its always interesting to watch the coverage As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE (deleted)!!!i recall a lot of hand wringing over people not being quick enough to call roof a terrorist and declare it a hate crime. i dont feel like i have seen much of the race issue on this yet, but its still early and i havent seen a ton of content yet. Edited August 26, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Let's just kill all the bad people. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Guns. So awesome. Make big boom. Make me feel powerful. Everyone should have one. Because everyone knows that if the guy didn't have a gun, he would have never found another way to kill everyone. Common sense. So awesome. Make simple-minded brains go boom. Everyone should have some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Because everyone knows that if the guy didn't have a gun, he would have never found another way to kill everyone. Common sense. So awesome. Make simple-minded brains go boom. Everyone should have some. When you remove his easy access to a machine that is designed and built solely for killing... sure, he may have found a way to attempt it, but it's not nearly as easy to ambush/kill 2, wound 1, and then kill yourself with <insert any other weapon here>. Name your other way. No matter what you come up with, it will not be any where near as easy and quick as with a gun. He could probably have gotten the camera man who wasnt looking, but good chance the other 2 women run away. It's pretty simple. Better tools make things easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 When you remove his easy access to a machine that is designed and built solely for killing... sure, he may have found a way to attempt it, but it's not nearly as easy to ambush/kill 2, wound 1, and then kill yourself with <insert any other weapon here>. Name your other way. No matter what you come up with, it will not be any where near as easy and quick as with a gun. He could probably have gotten the camera man who wasnt looking, but good chance the other 2 women run away. It's pretty simple. Better tools make things easier. of the incidents to point to, this probably isnt the best example...... realistically, he could have managed pretty terrible with nearly nothing walking up behind a camera man, and then just running after the two women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Common sense in society long gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Where's Jesse Jackson? Where's Al Sharpton? Where is the righteous indignation? I was going to post #Alllivesmatter but realized that would make me a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) im curious how the media will treat this one -- its always interesting to watch the coverage i recall a lot of hand wringing over people not being quick enough to call roof a terrorist and declare it a hate crime. i dont feel like i have seen much of the race issue on this yet, but its still early and i havent seen a ton of content yet. and what gets me is he is a black man, a homosexual and he filed harassment and discrimination papers against not just white colleagues but black ones. I was going to post #Alllivesmatter but realized that would make me a racist. and too late i already did that. Edited August 26, 2015 by Boyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 When you remove his easy access to a machine that is designed and built solely for killing... sure, he may have found a way to attempt it, but it's not nearly as easy to ambush/kill 2, wound 1, and then kill yourself with <insert any other weapon here>. Name your other way. No matter what you come up with, it will not be any where near as easy and quick as with a gun. He could probably have gotten the camera man who wasnt looking, but good chance the other 2 women run away. It's pretty simple. Better tools make things easier. Precisely how do you propose we "remove (the) easy access" to a gun in a way that would have prevented him from getting a gun to do this job? I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Perhaps the mass media should stop making these pieces of human garbage famous after they commit these acts. I don't need to know his !@#$ing name and I sure don't need to see his smiling !@#$ing face. !@#$ you, you piece of ****. Your entire existence should be completely wiped from this !@#$ing planet. /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Time to send the troops house to house and take all guns away from everyone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 When you remove his easy access to a machine that is designed and built solely for killing... sure, he may have found a way to attempt it, but it's not nearly as easy to ambush/kill 2, wound 1, and then kill yourself with <insert any other weapon here>. Name your other way. No matter what you come up with, it will not be any where near as easy and quick as with a gun. He could probably have gotten the camera man who wasnt looking, but good chance the other 2 women run away. It's pretty simple. Better tools make things easier. Hey !@#$. This guy wanted to kill people. If someone is willing to kill people, they don't need anything beyond a kitchen knife and no amount of words written on a piece of paper is going to stop someone like that. And any marginally trained soldier could show you how easy it is to kill a large number of people who don't know how to defend themselves with nothing more than an edged weapon. PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Because everyone knows that if the guy didn't have a gun, he would have never found another way to kill everyone. Common sense. So awesome. Make simple-minded brains go boom. Everyone should have some. Or maybe he wouldn't have because it would have been so damn hard. Guns just like suicide can make the sitiation impulsive. Of course couple both together and you have a quick answer. Of course they both may find another way to do what they are thinking, but the idea is to make it as hard as possible so a person gets discouraged and their impulse control (or lack of) is not a factor. Edit: Making it hard is making it inconvenient. I agree w/what AD said above... BUT the object is to make it so damn inconvenient that tney get their impulses in order. TIME. Guns are fast and efficient weapons. Edited August 26, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 That gopro view was scary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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