C.Biscuit97 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps. I don't think the tuck rule is applicable in US Courts, Matlock. Just saw this. haha. It'd be racist if it wasn't 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I responded to you and your example. I don't care what he said outside of what you immediately responded to. There's your problem. In your example you framed "get off me you f@#$ing n@#$$" and cocking her first back, as "A informs B they were there first." Nope, the whole "sassy language" thing. I think your position is pretty clear based on that interpretation. My position was clear. I clearly asked for clarification. First line, right above my ridiculous example. When I objected, you accused me of absolving Johnson of his actions which is totally incorrect. Suggesting that she was the instigator does not absolve Johnson. Any attempt to read that in to my post is wrong. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Johnson is still in the wrong as he grabs her arm and helps to escalate the situation after she "informs [him] that she was there first". Johnson is in the wrong when he takes a step back to line that girl up which had everything to do with anger, in my opinion, and nothing to do with any particular fear for his safety. I have never stated or accused anybody of absolving Johnson of his actions. If you think I did, please show me. I absolutely agree with you that Johnson acted out of anger, and IMO, that anger was caused by the insult (or whatever she said to him). To clarify, IMO, the insult was the biggest factor that set him off. He's not reacting because she "barreled" into the guy on her right. He's not reacting because she moved to her left to "ensure contact". Interpretations like that are noise, and are nothing more than attempts to portray the girl as overly aggressive and trying to cause trouble. They have been drinking. There was some bumping and jostling. She said something pretty !@#$ing stupid. He reacted poorly. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 There's your problem. Nope, the whole "sassy language" thing. My position was clear. I clearly asked for clarification. First line, right above my ridiculous example. I have never stated or accused anybody of absolving Johnson of his actions. If you think I did, please show me. I absolutely agree with you that Johnson acted out of anger, and IMO, that anger was caused by the insult (or whatever she said to him). To clarify, IMO, the insult was the biggest factor that set him off. He's not reacting because she "barreled" into the guy on her right. He's not reacting because she moved to her left to "ensure contact". Interpretations like that are noise, and are nothing more than attempts to portray the girl as overly aggressive and trying to cause trouble. They have been drinking. There was some bumping and jostling. She said something pretty !@#$ing stupid. He reacted poorly. End of story. No, the biggest factor that set him off was getting punched first. The insult obviously didn't help but didn't lead him to hit her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) There's your problem. Nope, the whole "sassy language" thing. My position was clear. I clearly asked for clarification. First line, right above my ridiculous example. I have never stated or accused anybody of absolving Johnson of his actions. If you think I did, please show me. I absolutely agree with you that Johnson acted out of anger, and IMO, that anger was caused by the insult (or whatever she said to him). To clarify, IMO, the insult was the biggest factor that set him off. He's not reacting because she "barreled" into the guy on her right. He's not reacting because she moved to her left to "ensure contact". Interpretations like that are noise, and are nothing more than attempts to portray the girl as overly aggressive and trying to cause trouble. They have been drinking. There was some bumping and jostling. She said something pretty !@#$ing stupid. He reacted poorly. End of story. Nice non-sequiturs up top. Dismissing a salient point as "nope, the whole sassy language thing" is some fine work. Once again, I do not care about every other exchange you've had on this topic prior to my involvement because I am responding solely to you and your very biased framing of events. What some other dude said has absolutely no bearing on our discussion. Writing off what actually happened as "A informs B that she was here first" at best demonstrates no understanding of events and at worst is a poor attempt to portray the girl as a damsel that got assaulted only because she was standing at the bar. Double down with that gibberish about sassy language and invoke what some other guy had to say about it again if you wish, because that seems to be all you've got going. She was overly aggressive. Any attempts to portray her as such are accurate. Dropping an N-bomb and cocking your fist back is a pretty f@#$ing aggressive way to respond to getting bumped into or jostled at a bar. Edited July 8, 2015 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I responded to you and your example. I don't care what he said outside of what you immediately responded to. In your example you framed "get off me you f@#$ing n@#$$" and cocking her first back, as "A informs B they were there first." I think your position is pretty clear based on that interpretation. When I objected, you accused me of absolving Johnson of his actions which is totally incorrect. Suggesting that she was the instigator does not absolve Johnson. Any attempt to read that in to my post is wrong. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Johnson is still in the wrong as he grabs her arm and helps to escalate the situation after she "informs [him] that she was there first". Johnson is in the wrong when he takes a step back to line that girl up which had everything to do with anger, in my opinion, and nothing to do with any particular fear for his safety. Nice to jump in the conversation in midstream and offer your Wednesday afternoon QBing. My response was to people who didn't see that she did anything wrong in the confrontation, while in my viewing the tape, she was clearly the aggressor. I made absolutely no excuse on whether he was justified to punch her. But to pretend that it was his actions solely that led to the escalation is ridiculous. He was actually trying to get past the girls on the left and in the process bumped into the blond. Watch her actions closely at 1:44-1:50. He's trying to get to the bar and she's the one who's moving into his side and then gets bent out of shape when he tries to saddle up to the bar. Watch her left leg move towards Johnson as he tries to get to the bar. She cocks her hand in a fighting stance. He then grabs her hand, after which she kicks him in the groin and then throws a punch with her left. That's why my attitude on this altercation turned 180 degrees after I watched it. She had a serious case of beer vagina on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Nice of you to fail to realize that I generally agree with your position. I took exception with cynical's framing of events. When cyncical replied with "but, but, but, but...GG said..." I answered that I do not care what you said, because I do not speak for you and the example he provided was poor in any context. Can no one read today? My bad, the reply was supposed to be for cynical. Hit the wrong post to quote. These darn mobile devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Bronson Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Raise your daughters to know if they hit someone they're likely to get hit back. Even if you subscribe to the theory that a vagina is a license to hit without being hit back, you have to admit it's a pretty stupid idea. Exactly! I mean he could have handles it a different way. I'm sure the both of them were pickled at the time. But I have to say this, she took that blow like a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uyejJrugCc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uyejJrugCc Pretty much as expected. If this video happened to Winston I very much doubt they kick him off the team. That's the sad part about this. It was a freshman, not a star player. Hell, the Tallahasee police or paper probably wouldn't even have shown the video if it were Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 That's kinda my point John. Is Rousey allowed to hit a man & not get a consequence? Because you're right, she would probably knock that guy out. This kid did one of the lowest things possible and he got a very severe consequence. As he should. But this girl threw a punch and got nothing. And I'm guessing it's not her first time doing it. As a man if you throw a punch, you should be prepared for a punch back. But a woman shouldn't be allowed to assault a man either. If he walks away after she hits him, does she face a consequence? I'm guessing no and that's not right either. But here is the thing Biscuit..... You would probably NEVER see Rousey hit someone outside of the gym or the octogon......because she realizes just how much damage she could actually cause and how much trouble she would get into for causing it...... In a way.....Rousey is the QB in this situation.......representing a sport that is popular but violent.......putting the good face forward to the public. There is a lesson for the blonde girl here though......instead of trying to hit a dude that has you by the wrist......tell the bartenders and let them get security there to take care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) She was overly aggressive. Any attempts to portray her as such are accurate. Dropping an N-bomb and cocking your fist back is a pretty f@#$ing aggressive way to respond to getting bumped into or jostled at a bar. Yeah, I mean I'm told on a regular basis I'm built like a linebacker, am quite muscular and quite aggressive at times due to high levels of Testosterone, but I've never responded in that way to getting bumped at a bar by someone before. Partly because I realize the other person is probably drunk, partly because I've got too much to lose by doing so, and partly because it's just not worth it to go to jail for letting off some steam over nothing really... So I would have to say that the girl was acting quite aggressively. Edited July 9, 2015 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 She was overly aggressive. Any attempts to portray her as such are accurate. Dropping an N-bomb and cocking your fist back is a pretty f@#$ing aggressive way to respond to getting bumped into or jostled at a bar. I agree. But anyone who thinks her behavior warrants a punch in the face by a semi-professional football player was either brought up by an idiot, or ignored a good upbringing and became an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Just fwiw, has there been any other source besides the moron's lawyer who said the drunk girl dropped the N-bomb? I would never believe a lawyer right off the bat on something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Just fwiw, has there been any other source besides the moron's lawyer who said the drunk girl dropped the N-bomb? I would never believe a lawyer right off the bat on something like that. No. It's sad that people in this thread are using his lawyer's claims as a fact to make the victim look like she deserved what she got but not at all surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 No. It's sad that people in this thread are using his lawyer's claims as a fact to make the victim look like she deserved what she got but not at all surprising. Point to one post on this thread where someone said that she deserved what she got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 No. It's sad that people in this thread are using his lawyer's claims as a fact to make the victim look like she deserved what she got but not at all surprising. i didn't see anyone say that in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 i didn't see anyone say that in this thread? Point to one post on this thread where someone said that she deserved what she got Do we have to be so literal? Let's not be naive here. There is a whole lotta 'she had it comin to her' mentality in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Do we have to be so literal? Let's not be naive here. There is a whole lotta 'she had it comin to her' mentality in this thread. I see a whole lotta 'she isn't without guilt in this situation' in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's why my attitude on this altercation turned 180 degrees after I watched it. She had a serious case of beer vagina on. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 ?? What's the gender appropriate term for beer balls? Do we have to be so literal? Let's not be naive here. There is a whole lotta 'she had it comin to her' mentality in this thread. Yes we do have to be literal, because not a single person excused the punch. But if Johnson stopped at the point of holding her wrist and then just pushed her away after she kneed and hit him, he'd be fine, and everyone would be talking about her being the instigator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Do we have to be so literal? Let's not be naive here. There is a whole lotta 'she had it comin to her' mentality in this thread. Can't say I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I see a whole lotta 'she isn't without guilt in this situation' in this thread. This. Though I'll admit the line between the two can be thin and blurry and it's hard to tell sometimes which side people are dancing on. It seems to be Truth though, these days it's hard to point out personal responsibility which contributes to a situation without being tagged as "blaming the victim", a situation exacerbated by the fact that there is usually a good deal of actual "victim blaming" going on concurrently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes we do have to be literal, because not a single person excused the punch. But if Johnson stopped at the point of holding her wrist and then just pushed her away after she kneed and hit him, he'd be fine, and everyone would be talking about her being the instigator. "No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO." That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 "No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO." That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol So you don't understand the written word. There's a big leap from describing her role in the altercation and stating that she deserved to get cold cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) "No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO." That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol I think you are lumping posters together who think she did something wrong (independently of Johnson doing something worse) and random posts that you feel implied that she deserved to be hit by Johnson. I say this because you respond to both the same way. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than I and others have. There is a difference, but you don't seem to see it. Gotta admit I find your post kind of insulting, for that reason. Edited July 9, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That is disturbing to say the least. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. I don't care what she did. He should be charged with assault and that place should be shut down. Obviously serving underage students. Not that they are the first or last to do this in a college town, but there is no reaction by the bartenders or anyone in any capacity. Having tended bar in some very busy places, you have to deal with that immediately. they did not give her any aid,and they did not seem to alert security or management. This is an aspect I haven't heard much discussion of or any news. The way the bartenders reacted (or didn't), it was like that whole altercation was "business as usual" and they were the "see no evil, hear no evil" Bar Monkeys. And yeah, there's the whole age thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 This. Though I'll admit the line between the two can be thin and blurry and it's hard to tell sometimes which side people are dancing on. It seems to be Truth though, these days it's hard to point out personal responsibility which contributes to a situation without being tagged as "blaming the victim", a situation exacerbated by the fact that there is usually a good deal of actual "victim blaming" going on concurrently. Good post. I think you are lumping posters together who think she did something wrong (independently of Johnson doing something worse) and random posts that you feel implied that she deserved to be hit by Johnson. I say this because you respond to both the same way. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than I and others have. There is a difference, but you don't seem to see it. Gotta admit I find your post kind of insulting, for that reason. Not at all. That's not my intent, sorry if my posts somehow come across that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So you don't understand the written word. There's a big leap from describing her role in the altercation and stating that she deserved to get cold cocked. There's also a leap between stating people are using innuendo from the cold-cocker's lawyer as a tool "to make the victim look like she deserved what she got" and thinking or stating that the same posters really believe that she got what she deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So you don't understand the written word. There's a big leap from describing her role in the altercation and stating that she deserved to get cold cocked. In general, I see most people here as saying "Johnson did something wrong" and "girl, independent of anything Johnson did, did something wrong" which I view as correct. I will say that the words "you have a pretty good case of self defense IMO" seems pretty close to saying "the girl deserved to get punched"? But perhaps the confusion results from the person posting not understanding the legal concept of "self defense"? I'm not a lawyer, but to my understanding, the concept hinges on imminent threat of bodily harm for which less forceful responses are not reasonably available. That's the whole "if someone threatens you on your front lawn and you can reasonably run inside, lock your door, and call police, you don't get to haul out a gun and shoot them and claim self defense, but if they grab a tire iron, smash in your door, and enter the house whilst police are enroute, you can" bit? "If the threat involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. If, however, the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail." Yeah, the girl did something wrong, but to assert "you have a pretty good case of self defense" as the post to which you're responding did, seems to me to come pretty close to saying the girl "had it coming to her" because she used "deadly force", no? I for one have trouble thinking "deadly force" about a girl tid-bit sitting on a bar stool throwing a wild punch at a football player who already has ahold of one of her arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 In general, I see most people here as saying "Johnson did something wrong" and "girl, independent of anything Johnson did, did something wrong" which I view as correct. I will say that the words "you have a pretty good case of self defense IMO" seems pretty close to saying "the girl deserved to get punched"? But perhaps the confusion results from the person posting not understanding the legal concept of "self defense"? I'm not a lawyer, but to my understanding, the concept hinges on imminent threat of bodily harm for which less forceful responses are not reasonably available. That's the whole "if someone threatens you on your front lawn and you can reasonably run inside, lock your door, and call police, you don't get to haul out a gun and shoot them and claim self defense, but if they grab a tire iron, smash in your door, and enter the house whilst police are enroute, you can" bit? "If the threat involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. If, however, the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail." Yeah, the girl did something wrong, but to assert "you have a pretty good case of self defense" as the post to which you're responding did, seems to me to come pretty close to saying the girl "had it coming to her" because she used "deadly force", no? I for one have trouble thinking "deadly force" about a girl tid-bit sitting on a bar stool throwing a wild punch at a football player who already has ahold of one of her arms. Yeah, I tend to be leary of anyone who starts a post with "He decked her because she..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd like to know the origin of the term, "cold cocked." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd like to know the origin of the term, "cold cocked." Eskimos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yeah, I tend to be leary of anyone who starts a post with "He decked her because she..." Can you explain your moral position by some kind of objective standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Can you explain your moral position by some kind of objective standard? He's offended by causality. DeAndre decked her because she called him an N and hit him in the face. That is the story as we know it. Whether he was justified in decking her is a different matter which many people participating in this thread cannot seem to separate from DeAndre's motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 He's offended by causality. DeAndre decked her because she called him an N and hit him in the face. That is the story as we know it. Whether he was justified in decking her is a different matter which many people participating in this thread cannot seem to separate from DeAndre's motive. But we don't know that she called him anything. All we know is what we see on the video. Outside of that we're just speculating and/or making stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 But we don't know that she called him anything. All we know is what we see on the video. Outside of that we're just speculating and/or making stuff up. Do we even know that much? How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 He's offended by causality. DeAndre decked her because she called him an N and hit him in the face. That is the story as we know it. Whether he was justified in decking her is a different matter which many people participating in this thread cannot seem to separate from DeAndre's motive. That's because some people mistake their feelings for thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Here's the full video - go to 1:49 mark and judge for yourself on whether he pushed her hard enough to upset her delicate southern belle sensibilities. Thanks for this. Here's what I see: A group of women are tying up one of the only access points to a busy bar and everyone's probably getting irritated trying to get up there for a drink. Our moderately drunk blonde is off to the right, behind the dude with the glasses. Johnson is just behind the group tying up access. When the group starts to leave blondie slides in next to glasses dude and Johnson shoves her (which gets her attention) then grabs the underside of the bar counter with his arms to help leverage himself through the space up to the bar. I believe this further pins blondie up against the bar and she turns back around raises her right fist with her thumb out. Johnson grabs her wrist at which point you can actually see blondie mouth the words "hey, hey" and start to struggle against him and try to gain separation (leg, etc). Finally she tries a weak punch and everyone knows the rest. After watching the entire video I feel like she was trying to explain to him that she was next and using her thumb to point out where she had been or something to that effect. I don't see her as being overly aggressive beyond the fact that she felt she was next in line. Having the whole video helps. But who knows what truly happened. Edited July 9, 2015 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Eskimos. Eskimo brothers, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I'd like to know the origin of the term, "cold cocked." I've heard 3 different versions. 1) that it originated with cockney rhyming slang, "cocked" = "knocked" 2) that it originated with early firearms, where the priming gunpowder needed to be touched off with a match, the firearm was loaded and "cold cocked", then fired 3) that it originated with rooster-fighting, where a "cold rooster" was "knocked out" or "dead" Edited July 9, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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