Niagara Bill Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Let me say first I am thrilled with hiring Rex R as our coach, but some times a little doubt sneaks in when I see all these old Jests being considered and brought into camp...players the Jests don't want and seemingly having some warm connection to Rex. I then remember the bravo talk when Rex actually considered that Maybin could play and how long it took him to realize that Maybin was a fraud. I know he is a players coach but loyalty can also be a major block to success. Anyone else have these anxiety feelings about old Jests players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm concerned when I don't see posts asking if I should be concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 How many do you think will actually play in a reg season game for the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 How many do you think will actually play in a reg season game for the Bills? I don't know. But, it concerns me that we may be bringing in "guys Rex knows" as opposed to the best guys the scouting department can find. Still, there aren't that many guys to choose from in June so if they feel they need more camp bodies, I can see where it makes some sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 All coaches do this. They bring in guys that they have coached before if they think it will add depth to the roster. It's not unusual and certainly nothing to be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I don't know. But, it concerns me that we may be bringing in "guys Rex knows" as opposed to the best guys the scouting department can find. Still, there aren't that many guys to choose from in June so if they feel they need more camp bodies, I can see where it makes some sense besides Harvin, they are bottom of the roster guys who won't be on the 53. It is common for coaches to prefer camp fodder that they are familiar with their work ethic, attitude. Etc in camp because they are trying to build a certain culture and they bring in guys who emulate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yeah, somebody better keep an eye on them, AND on the snack table. Damn has-been jests clogging up the parkin' lot with their pickups, snatchin' all the good snacks like theyz entitled to 'em when dey ain't done nuttin here yet. Hmmmph! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think the OP has a point. Surely no coach in the history of professional sports has brought with them to a new gig role-players and second-stringers they might know how to bleed a little talent out of. No, clearly this is about a secret plan to bankrupt the Pegulas, one league-minimum game check at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Concerned? No more than any other staff, really. Ryan has had a few good years, and a few bad years. Which is why he was available. He's coached some good players, and some bad players, no different than anyone else. The question is, did he bring the good pieces to fit with already established ones here? That's what we'll be finding out *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What's laughable to me is the naiveté of people who think building a team is like playing with Colorforms. Just pick the one you want and plop it down. There. Perfect! It's like experience and history don't matter at all. At least these camp bodies know what Rex expects, and have the right 'tude, or they wouldn't be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If having the Jets former coaching staff didn't bother you, why would having a few other Jets castaways be a source for concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Buffalo Wings Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 besides Harvin, they are bottom of the roster guys who won't be on the 53. It is common for coaches to prefer camp fodder that they are familiar with their work ethic, attitude. Etc in camp because they are trying to build a certain culture and they bring in guys who emulate that. As always, hitting the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If having the Jets former coaching staff didn't bother you, why would having a few other Jets castaways be a source for concern? IMO having former Jets coaches bothers me. crony hires did nothing for Maroon, etc. and the Jets have not been lighting up the NFL lately. And Rex's head butting with the GM is meaningless as an excuse why they sucked. But, makes a nice talking point for Bills fans while Rex enjoys his honeymoon, and remains undefeated as a Bill. percy Harvin salary could have been spent in more critical areas. he is a one and done anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 IMO having former Jets coaches bothers me. crony hires did nothing for Maroon, etc. and the Jets have not been lighting up the NFL lately. And Rex's head butting with the GM is meaningless as an excuse why they sucked. But, makes a nice talking point for Bills fans while Rex enjoys his honeymoon, and remains undefeated as a Bill. percy Harvin salary could have been spent in more critical areas. he is a one and done anyways. Don't most HCs bring in their own people? Who did we not sign or were incapable of signing because of Harvin's contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 besides Harvin, they are bottom of the roster guys who won't be on the 53. It is common for coaches to prefer camp fodder that they are familiar with their work ethic, attitude. Etc in camp because they are trying to build a certain culture and they bring in guys who emulate that. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Don't most HCs bring in their own people? Who did we not sign or were incapable of signing because of Harvin's contract? Of course, but the point is that these people have won an average of fewer than 7 games a year the past 4 seasons. That is more concerning than brining in a few long shot players to camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Don't most HCs bring in their own people? Who did we not sign or were incapable of signing because of Harvin's contract? maybe, and I know he (Whaley) tried Oline guards or maybe even tackles, or dare I say a center. personally i need to see if Incognito can shake off the rust. And looking forward to a comment from Dareus different than " he is the dirtiest player in the league" IMO Harvin is a gamble,( his history speaks for itself) a douchebag, And a luxury. Where is the bigger area of need? receivers or O-line that need to keep three very suspect QB's upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Let me say first I am thrilled with hiring Rex R as our coach, but some times a little doubt sneaks in when I see all these old Jests being considered and brought into camp...players the Jests don't want and seemingly having some warm connection to Rex. I then remember the bravo talk when Rex actually considered that Maybin could play and how long it took him to realize that Maybin was a fraud. I know he is a players coach but loyalty can also be a major block to success. Anyone else have these anxiety feelings about old Jests players? As long as they can play and contribute in a positive way then I have no issues with whoever Rex puts on the field CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 maybe, and I know he (Whaley) tried Oline guards or maybe even tackles, or dare I say a center. personally i need to see if Incognito can shake off the rust. And looking forward to a comment from Dareus different than " he is the dirtiest player in the league" IMO Harvin is a gamble,( his history speaks for itself) a douchebag, And a luxury. Where is the bigger area of need? receivers or O-line that need to keep three very suspect QB's upright. They offered contracts to a number of O-Linemen but couldn't get them to sign. Harvins contract did not prevent them from signing anyone. Of course, but the point is that these people have won an average of fewer than 7 games a year the past 4 seasons. That is more concerning than brining in a few long shot players to camp. I understand that but not a lot of successful Hall-of-Fame coaches looking for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 They offered contracts to a number of O-Linemen but couldn't get them to sign. Harvins contract did not prevent them from signing anyone. I understand that but not a lot of successful Hall-of-Fame coaches looking for work. I know that, I also know guards are not highly valued. meaning no big money. But with El Pegul trying to make a big splash This season just maybe a bigger offer meaning money to the players they targeted would have secured them. Again I see Harvin as a uneeded luxury, will take targets away from the younger guys, a rental, a risk in the locker room, and a Rex signing. maybe a run at Revis could could have been possible, along with some needed dead wood cuts. I am looking at you C. Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Don't most HCs bring in their own people? Who did we not sign or were incapable of signing because of Harvin's contract? Mathis or other top FA OLman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think the OP has a point. Surely no coach in the history of professional sports has brought with them to a new gig role-players and second-stringers they might know how to bleed a little talent out of. No, clearly this is about a secret plan to bankrupt the Pegulas, one league-minimum game check at a time. This one made me laugh the most! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes we should. I'm terrified of Wayne Chrebet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Mathis or other top FA OLman? The Bills made offers to other linemen...we don't know about Mathis...can't force players to sign...as I said Harvin's contract did NOT prevent us from signing other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 They offered contracts to a number of O-Linemen but couldn't get them to sign. Harvins contract did not prevent them from signing anyone. Nucci, I understand that they pursued two OLmen, one of whom re-signed with his team for less money and the other went elsewhere. But I'm not sure how we conclude from that "Harvin's contract did not prevent them....". I understand why they wanted Harvin, but once they used up their money to the point where Whaley said "unless it's vet minimum, we're done", they were basically precluded from pursuing anyone else who might be available (like Mathis). With the salary cap, there is always an impact, if you sign one expensive player you can't sign or resign another. The Bills made offers to other linemen...we don't know about Mathis...can't force players to sign...as I said Harvin's contract did NOT prevent us from signing other players. And as I said, I don't see how you can reasonably conclude this. It didn't preclude them from signing the guys they initially pursued in FA, but they did reach a point where Whaley said "we're done" and that would (at least potentially) be precluding them from pursuing other OLmen who may be or become available as FA or through trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nucci, I understand that they pursued two OLmen, one of whom re-signed with his team for less money and the other went elsewhere. But I'm not sure how we conclude from that "Harvin's contract did not prevent them....". I understand why they wanted Harvin, but once they used up their money to the point where Whaley said "unless it's vet minimum, we're done", they were basically precluded from pursuing anyone else who might be available (like Mathis). With the salary cap, there is always an impact, if you sign one expensive player you can't sign or resign another. And as I said, I don't see how you can reasonably conclude this. It didn't preclude them from signing the guys they initially pursued in FA, but they did reach a point where Whaley said "we're done" and that would (at least potentially) be precluding them from pursuing other OLmen who may be or become available as FA or through trade. Ok, I get your point but maybe Mathis is not worth it....If they really wanted to sign him I'm sure they could and they still might. The fact he is still unsigned says something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Not concerned about the former Jet camp bodies. They will be gone come September. I'm more worried about the real Jets. 2015 Division title is a crapshoot IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 besides Harvin, they are bottom of the roster guys who won't be on the 53. It is common for coaches to prefer camp fodder that they are familiar with their work ethic, attitude. Etc in camp because they are trying to build a certain culture and they bring in guys who emulate that. So, is the sky falling, or not? You're confusing me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 IMO having former Jets coaches bothers me. crony hires did nothing for Maroon, etc. and the Jets have not been lighting up the NFL lately. And Rex's head butting with the GM is meaningless as an excuse why they sucked. But, makes a nice talking point for Bills fans while Rex enjoys his honeymoon, and remains undefeated as a Bill. percy Harvin salary could have been spent in more critical areas. he is a one and done anyways. You're right, it makes no sense to hire coaches you know and are familiar with. By the way, Marrone's crony did a pretty good job with ST last year, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 All coaches do this. They bring in guys that they have coached before if they think it will add depth to the roster. It's not unusual and certainly nothing to be concerned about. Agreed. This is nothing new or a concern of mine. If anything I think it's good for him to bring in guys he knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So, is the sky falling, or not? You're confusing me!Can't decide on a new avatar! Help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nucci, I understand that they pursued two OLmen, one of whom re-signed with his team for less money and the other went elsewhere. But I'm not sure how we conclude from that "Harvin's contract did not prevent them....". I understand why they wanted Harvin, but once they used up their money to the point where Whaley said "unless it's vet minimum, we're done", they were basically precluded from pursuing anyone else who might be available (like Mathis). With the salary cap, there is always an impact, if you sign one expensive player you can't sign or resign another. And as I said, I don't see how you can reasonably conclude this. It didn't preclude them from signing the guys they initially pursued in FA, but they did reach a point where Whaley said "we're done" and that would (at least potentially) be precluding them from pursuing other OLmen who may be or become available as FA or through trade. Has he actually come out and said this? And if he has, Did he say that they regret signing others because they really need oline help and now can't afford to get it? Just because the fantasy football/armchair Monday Morning GMs think the team should sign this guy or that guy, doesn't mean the guys in charge of the team feel the same way. If they really wanted to upgrade the oline with more expensive players then they wouldn't have signed Harvin or they would be making moves now to free up the money to do it. If they REALLY Badly wanted Mathis they could have traded for him before he was cut or they can still go out and sign him now as a free agent if they feel the need for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) IMO having former Jets coaches bothers me. crony hires did nothing for Maroon, etc. and the Jets have not been lighting up the NFL lately. I've been reading "Collision Low Crossers" and recommend it for the interesting portrait it paints of Rex and the inner workings of his coaches, many of whom are now here. One of the points made in that book is that 1) Rex finds "brothers" and is intensely loyal to them, while being tone-deaf to any complaints from his staff that they are deficient in any way as coaches and adopting a "can't we all get along?" attitude 2) contrary to the belief that Rex was the defensive mastermind, he actually left the defensive plan and playcalling to Pettine and in 2011, was actually perceived by many of his coaches as being distracted from the team by the media limelight and not putting in enough time with the nuts and bolts of coaching. Rex is undeniably a talented and innovative coach who can obtain and hold ferocious loyalty from his players (some of the stories in CLC are 'oh my God' in what these guys did because "they didn't want to let Rex down" and his assistants. This is a double-edged sword because Rex builds this in part by extending ferocious loyalty from him to his players and assistants. The big question for the Bills success is "did Rex perform enough introspection and learn from his mistakes as Jets HC?". Some of these mistakes may have included placing personal loyalty above talent at times in both staff and personnel decisions. I thought it was positive that Rex brought in Roman and Kromer, two "non-Jets cronies" who have an excellent reputation around the league. There are former Jets coaches that don't bother me - Sanjay Lal is one, I think he's a generally talented WR coach and while I'm "meh" on Lee based upon the results of bringing him in to Fitzy's performance and him publically slinging Geno Smith under the bus when after all, he bears some responsibility - but apparently Lee has strong recognition around the league. There are other Jets assistants whom I'm leary of (Collision Low Crossers has a lot to say, especially on the D side of the ball) - not because of the general "hire guys you know you can work with" philosophy of building a coaching staff, but becuase of specific performance factors called out in that book. I have the same thing about Hunter. Rex sounds very loyal to him, praising his "great shape" and how he's a guy who can do everything - he's been out of football 2 years - when last starting for the Jets in 2011, he was BRUTAL, brutal, damn near got Sanchez killed. From this article check out this link. Brutal. Just brutal. The only thing that would make me happier about it is if he were actually fighting injuries in 2011 and 2012 and he took 2 years to heal up and is now closer to his earlier - but you know. at 34, the healing seldom sticks. Edited June 19, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Can't decide on a new avatar! Help https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=super%20bowl%20trophy&source=web&cd=&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpress.tiffany.com%2FViewBackgrounder.aspx%3FbackgrounderId%3D4&ei=zyiEVaipOYPFsAX44IDwCg&bvm=bv.96339352,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNERifpOaLimPdKGNlcuajqIBSm0bQ&ust=1434810950896051 Too obvious? It's certainly the opposite of Chicken Little! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Can't decide on a new avatar! Help Did you get the pic of me I sent you? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 No worries, these guys are practice dummies. Only have upside. There is a chance of finding an old diamond in camp. There is no downside. Once someone better comes along sign them and cut the low man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Has he actually come out and said this? And if he has, Did he say that they regret signing others because they really need oline help and now can't afford to get it? Yes, he did: 25th March. “We’re tapped out,” Whaley said. “We’re at the point now where we’ve got to save” cap space “for the draft choices and for injury replacements next year. So anything we do from now on will basically be minimum” salaried “guys. I would be deeply disappointed in Whaley if he said publically anything approaching your second sentence. First, because it would be a slap in the face to whomever they signed. Done is done, move on, what would be the point of dissing a guy on your roster like that? Demotivating. Second, because it would be a public admission of incompetence. But I think in the article linked above, he came about as close to saying "we didn't get it done on OL and I regret that" as an NFL GM can respectably do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I've been reading "Collision Low Crossers" and recommend it for the interesting portrait it paints of Rex and the inner workings of his coaches, many of whom are now here. One of the points made in that book is that 1) Rex finds "brothers" and is intensely loyal to them, while being tone-deaf to any complaints from his staff that they are deficient in any way as coaches and adopting a "can't we all get along?" attitude 2) contrary to the belief that Rex was the defensive mastermind, he actually left the defensive plan and playcalling to Pettine and in 2011, was actually perceived by many of his coaches as being distracted from the team by the media limelight and not putting in enough time with the nuts and bolts of coaching. Rex is undeniably a talented and innovative coach who can obtain and hold ferocious loyalty from his players (some of the stories in CLC are 'oh my God' in what these guys did because "they didn't want to let Rex down" and his assistants. This is a double-edged sword because Rex builds this in part by extending ferocious loyalty from him to his players and assistants. The big question for the Bills success is "did Rex perform enough introspection and learn from his mistakes as Jets HC?". Some of these mistakes may have included placing personal loyalty above talent at times in both staff and personnel decisions. I thought it was positive that Rex brought in Roman and Kromer, two "non-Jets cronies" who have an excellent reputation around the league. There are former Jets coaches that don't bother me - Sanjay Lal is one, I think he's a generally talented WR coach and while I'm "meh" on Lee based upon the results of bringing him in to Fitzy's performance and him publically slinging Geno Smith under the bus when after all, he bears some responsibility - but apparently Lee has strong recognition around the league. There are other Jets assistants whom I'm leary of (Collision Low Crossers has a lot to say, especially on the D side of the ball) - not because of the general "hire guys you know you can work with" philosophy of building a coaching staff, but becuase of specific performance factors called out in that book. I have the same thing about Hunter. Rex sounds very loyal to him, praising his "great shape" and how he's a guy who can do everything - he's been out of football 2 years - when last starting for the Jets in 2011, he was BRUTAL, brutal, damn near got Sanchez killed. From this article check out this link. Brutal. Just brutal. Good post and points. But both of the former Jets are on the offensive side of the ball, where Rex is letting Roman run the show. They are both also at positions of glaring need. Since we started we have not had a blocking TE and since we started we have needed another veteran OT. The only guys either of these two could possibly beat out are Tyson Chandler and Chris Gragg (or Marquise Gray). Rex also addressed your other concern about not being involved as he will be calling the defensive calls during games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Good post and points. But both of the former Jets are on the offensive side of the ball, where Rex is letting Roman run the show. They are both also at positions of glaring need. Since we started we have not had a blocking TE and since we started we have needed another veteran OT. The only guys either of these two could possibly beat out are Tyson Chandler and Chris Gragg (or Marquise Gray). Rex also addressed your other concern about not being involved as he will be calling the defensive calls during games this year. Thanks. When they let Smith walk, I kind of figured Roman was looking for more multi-dimensional players at TE. But maybe from what he's seen so far, he doesn't like the blocking dimension any of his TE bring? or maybe he looked at our OL and said "these guys gonna need some strong TE help" Calling the Defensive plays on game day doesn't address my concern. It's really whether he's "in the trenches" and putting in the Harbaugh-style hours or running around doing media appearances. That's really something that can only be known behind the scenes and if it leaks out, it's not a Good Sign either. Edited June 19, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You're right, it makes no sense to hire coaches you know and are familiar with. By the way, Marrone's crony did a pretty good job with ST last year, no?Yes, rex's coaches and their Jets won loss record really say a lot. I want a deep playoff runs not crony's some guy is comfortable with. As for Crossman, let's face it they reloaded the ST last year. to deny that is foolish. he sucked the year before, and the team before that IIRC. David Lee yes lets see what he does this year, his first run with the bills sucked ditto Jets. But were familar with him at least. I'm guessing he will take the heat if a Bills QB shows no improvement. But not the QB. Some of rex's hires i agree are good, but even Rex has to prove himself other than his big smile and awesome PR persona. Show me the baby he has the players to do some damage this year. i expect he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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