Tampa Bob Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Since Fred was not a coach, it's unfair to criticize him for not making other players better. That was not his responsibility. Regarding him being a coach after his playing days, I think it's just mentioned by people that like him so much that they think it would be good for him to coach, even though I don't recall ever hearing him talk about it. Those saying that have no idea if he would be a good coach, they just really like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why should Fred (as a competitor) be helping his teamates with their games? The only thing he can show these players is how to prepare as you age as a player.....maybe some of those younger guys just can handle that? I think we will see a different side of Fred Jackson this year though.....he comes into this season as a unquestioned backup as they brought in a top 5 NFL running back.....so maybe the mentorship role will be more in affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Since Fred was not a coach, it's unfair to criticize him for not making other players better. That was not his responsibility. Regarding him being a coach after his playing days, I think it's just mentioned by people that like him so much that they think it would be good for him to coach, even though I don't recall ever hearing him talk about it. Those saying that have no idea if he would be a good coach, they just really like him. The entire premise looks like trolling to me. Why would CJ Spiller, or any other RB, even consider being "coached" by another team mate with whom they are competing for a starting job? And, why, on God's green Earth, would we hold FJ accountable in any way for the production, or lack thereof, of another player on the roster? What Fred Jackson has been is one of the most popular players in Bills history, and, unquestionably, a respected team leader. And, he has been a consistently productive RB through some of the Bills' darkest days. I think that makes him at least a candidate for a coaching position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) His hard work and dedication got him from Coe college to the NFL so that counts. Last time I checked he was a player, not a coach (though I wouldn't be surprised if he was a mentor of the field) Edited June 8, 2015 by Beerball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Name 1 QB that Peyton Manning has developed? It is universally thought that he'd have a bright coaching future. The reasons that people think that Fred would be a good coach are rooted in a similar place. He's an incredibly intelligent individual who developed the complete game. He is a great pass blocker, receiver and has been a productive back. His understanding of the game (and position) translates well to coaching. He didn't get this far on his crazy physical skills. In addition, he's been a captain for years which speaks to his work ethic and communication skills. Edited June 7, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Name 1 QB that Peyton Manning has developed? It is universally thought that he'd have a bright coaching future. The reasons that people think that would be a good coach are rooted in a similar lace. He's an incredibly intelligent individual who developed the complete game. He is a great pass blocker, receiver and has been a productive back. His understanding of the game (and position) translates well to coaching. He didn't get this far on his crazy physical skills. In addition, he's been a captain for years which speaks to his work ethic and communication skills. It's possible manning would be a terrible when coach because it could be hard for him to relate to guys that are fringe or struggle? Though he has helped grow w lot of careers for his passing units in not sure if that's his skill making them look good organ being good at coaching. There are stories of him coming to the staff with all kinds of new stuff every Monday and the coaches having to tell him to tone it down. It can be hard to project players into the all new career that coaching is. Would Fred do well? It seems he has some good traits for it, thought he OP is probably right in saying those treating it as a sure thing are overstated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) The entire premise looks like trolling to me. You're right about that. What a first sentence in the OP!: "Sorry fellas. I've been suspended for months so I gotta get my fill of Fred posts/comments in to catch up from lost time." ...Considering he was more than likely suspended for his crusade against Fred, I'll give Tampa credit for giving zero !@#$s about being suspended again. Name 1 QB that Peyton Manning has developed? It is universally thought that he'd have a bright coaching future. The reasons that people think that would be a good coach are rooted in a similar lace. He's an incredibly intelligent individual who developed the complete game. He is a great pass blocker, receiver and has been a productive back. His understanding of the game (and position) translates well to coaching. He didn't get this far on his crazy physical skills. In addition, he's been a captain for years which speaks to his work ethic and communication skills. It's like the Larry Bird coaching issue, isn't it? Here's a guy, arguably one of the greatest ever to play the sport and one of the fiercest competitors that's ever breathed, and he was a middling (at best) coach in the league. It wasn't because he didn't possess a high basketball IQ or lacked the ability to communicate well with others, I think his failure as a (if you can call 2 trips to the eastern conference finals in 3 years failure, maybe frustration is a better word) stemmed from the game coming so easy to the great ones. It makes it hard to teach the gifts you're given when they're God-given rather than learned. That (in my mind) extends beyond physical gifts. I'm thinking Peyton might fall under that category when his playing days are up -- if he wants to coach at all which would surprise me. He is clearly a great communicator and understands the game better than some coaches today, but teaching from the sidelines is entirely different than leading on the field. Edited June 7, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Odd. I'm still waiting for the first example where you've made a positive impact on TSW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Fred is a leader and has better technique than any RB in the game today. I would take him as a coach in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bob, can you stop giving Tampa a bad name since I live there (I'm just kidding bud)? Glad to have you back. As far as Fred, I'm a big fan of him, and hope he sunsets this year while still in top form. I'm hoping with reduced carries, that when he gets the nod, he'll make some serious damage out there. He also will have a stud FB in Pelton to plow the road. You bring up a good point in the just because Fred is a complete player in terms of the major phases of RB, but that doesn't mean he can coach. I think he'll need to do what Andre Reed is doing and intern as a coach, and if he makes a serious impact, he'll start as a quality control coach, or some other entry level position. I'm sure Pete Metzelaars did not start out as a TE coach. Just like our careers, you don't start on top, but have to pay your dues and work towards greater roles. I don't care Bob though if he didn't help Lynch, Spiller or anyone else. These are your competitors trying to take your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You're right about that. What a first sentence in the OP!: "Sorry fellas. I've been suspended for months so I gotta get my fill of Fred posts/comments in to catch up from lost time." ...Considering he was more than likely suspended for his crusade against Fred, I'll give Tampa credit for giving zero !@#$s about being suspended again. It's like the Larry Bird coaching issue, isn't it? Here's a guy, arguably one of the greatest ever to play the sport and one of the fiercest competitors that's ever breathed, and he was a middling (at best) coach in the league. It wasn't because he didn't possess a high basketball IQ or lacked the ability to communicate well with others, I think his failure as a (if you can call 2 trips to the eastern conference finals in 3 years failure, maybe frustration is a better word) stemmed from the game coming so easy to the great ones. It makes it hard to teach the gifts you're given when they're God-given rather than learned. That (in my mind) extends beyond physical gifts. I'm thinking Peyton might fall under that category when his playing days are up -- if he wants to coach at all which would surprise me. He is clearly a great communicator and understands the game better than some coaches today, but teaching from the sidelines is entirely different than leading on the field. I'm glad you corrected yourself a bit regarding Bird. Albeit brief, he was a very successful coach. I think he had a health issue which took him out of coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's like the Larry Bird coaching issue, isn't it? Here's a guy, arguably one of the greatest ever to play the sport and one of the fiercest competitors that's ever breathed, and he was a middling (at best) coach in the league. Uh...Wrong. Bird was a great NBA coach. His regular season winning percentage was nearly .690. His first season the Pacers had their best ever regular season record (at that time) and he was named Coach of the Year. He also took his last team to the NBA Finals without a true superstar but they lost to the Shaq/Kobe Lakers. 2 Division Titles, 3 Eastern Conference Finals appearances, and one NBA Final in 3 seasons. If that's middling, sign me up. The idea that Fred was somehow involved in Lynch playing poorly or Spiller being unable to hit the holes or block better than a pylon is !@#$ing hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Just wondering,suspended for constantly krapping on Fred-Ex threads? or was it insulting the city of Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Fred is a leader and has better technique than any RB in the game today. I would take him as a coach in a heartbeat. Yeah. Coaching is about leading and Freddie has always demonstrated leadership. Maybe he has never taken on an apprentice, but he had been cited as a leader by Johnson, by spiller to name a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Uh...Wrong. Bird was a great NBA coach. His regular season winning percentage was nearly .690. His first season the Pacers had their best ever regular season record (at that time) and he was named Coach of the Year. He also took his last team to the NBA Finals without a true superstar but they lost to the Shaq/Kobe Lakers. 2 Division Titles, 3 Eastern Conference Finals appearances, and one NBA Final in 3 seasons. If that's middling, sign me up. The idea that Fred was somehow involved in Lynch playing poorly or Spiller being unable to hit the holes or block better than a pylon is !@#$ing hysterical. You can't be a great NBA coach without a ring. He might have gotten one had he stuck around, but it's not fair to label him as great with only 3 years on his resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You're right about that. What a first sentence in the OP!: "Sorry fellas. I've been suspended for months so I gotta get my fill of Fred posts/comments in to catch up from lost time." ...Considering he was more than likely suspended for his crusade against Fred, I'll give Tampa credit for giving zero !@#$s about being suspended again. It's like the Larry Bird coaching issue, isn't it? Here's a guy, arguably one of the greatest ever to play the sport and one of the fiercest competitors that's ever breathed, and he was a middling (at best) coach in the league. It wasn't because he didn't possess a high basketball IQ or lacked the ability to communicate well with others, I think his failure as a (if you can call 2 trips to the eastern conference finals in 3 years failure, maybe frustration is a better word) stemmed from the game coming so easy to the great ones. It makes it hard to teach the gifts you're given when they're God-given rather than learned. That (in my mind) extends beyond physical gifts. I'm thinking Peyton might fall under that category when his playing days are up -- if he wants to coach at all which would surprise me. He is clearly a great communicator and understands the game better than some coaches today, but teaching from the sidelines is entirely different than leading on the field. Bird isn't a middling anything: Mvps as a player, coach of the year, executive of the year. The guy craps excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bird isn't a middling anything: Mvps as a player, coach of the year, executive of the year. The guy craps excellence. And he found coaching frustrating... which was my point. Great players don't often make for great coaches. Bird might be the exception that proves the rule -- or could have been -- but he didn't enjoy it as much as running a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You can't be a great NBA coach without a ring. He might have gotten one had he stuck around, but it's not fair to label him as great with only 3 years on his resume. You don't win a ring in the NBA without an elite player. The Pacers didn't have one. The fact that he got them as far as he did every year without a single player averaging even 20 points is a testimonial to his coaching ability. He had three years on his resume because that's what he signed up for. He told everyone he'd coach 3 seasons and that's what he did. He took a team that hadn't done anything since their ABA days and took them to the brink of their first NBA title with teams that clearly weren't at the top of the heap talent wise. You can use the championship thing to say he isn't great (which seems astoundingly stupid coming from a BILLS fan) but saying he was "middling at best" is !@#$ing retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You don't win a ring in the NBA without an elite player. The Pacers didn't have one. The fact that he got them as far as he did every year without a single player averaging even 20 points is a testimonial to his coaching ability. He had three years on his resume because that's what he signed up for. He told everyone he'd coach 3 seasons and that's what he did. He took a team that hadn't done anything since their ABA days and took them to the brink of their first NBA title with teams that clearly weren't at the top of the heap talent wise. You can use the championship thing to say he isn't great (which seems astoundingly stupid coming from a BILLS fan) but saying he was "middling at best" is !@#$ing retarded. Calling him great is as retarded as calling him middling, I admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 And he found coaching frustrating... which was my point. You did a pretty ****ty job making it by calling a guy who was clearly a very good (or better) NBA coach "middling". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You did a pretty ****ty job making it by calling a guy who was clearly a very good (or better) NBA coach "middling". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) And he found coaching frustrating... which was my point. Great players don't often make for great coaches. Bird might be the exception that proves the rule -- or could have been -- but he didn't enjoy it as much as running a team. I've heard the adage, but Fred's no Larry Byrd or Michael Jordan type. I veiw him very much more like a Harbaugh. A very average athlete with no exceptional talent, but a raging fire, and will of steel. A combine never could have gotten the guy into the league, but he wouldn't be denied. Edited June 7, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I've heard the adage, but Fred's no Larry Byrd or Michael Jordan. I veiw him very much more like a Harbaugh. A very average athlete with no exceptional talent, but a raging fire, and will of steel. A combine never could have gotten the guy into the league, but he wouldn't be denied. I'm not comparing Fred to Larry at all. I was responding to Kirby's post about Manning. You can use the championship thing to say he isn't great (which seems astoundingly stupid coming from a BILLS fan) but saying he was "middling at best" is !@#$ing retarded. As for this, greatness in sports is defined by chips. The Bills teams of the '90s were great to me as a Bills fan (and I'll irrationally argue for them until I die), but objectively speaking, rings are all that matters when determining greatness. Same holds true for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm not comparing Fred to Larry at all. I was responding to Kirby's post about Manning. I get that. I gues the point layering in here is superstar athlete players may make poor coaches, but guys who rate high with the intangibles (whether coupled with great athleticism or not) likely do make good coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm not comparing Fred to Larry at all. I was responding to Kirby's post about Manning. As for this, greatness in sports is defined by chips. The Bills teams of the '90s were great to me as a Bills fan (and I'll irrationally argue for them until I die), but objectively speaking, rings are all that matters when determining greatness. Same holds true for the Bills. So taking 3 straight teams to a level clearly beyond their talent is "middling" but if he'd won a title he'd have been great. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I get that. I gues the point layering in here is superstar athlete players may make poor coaches, but guys who rate high with the intangibles (whether coupled with great athleticism or not) likely do make good coaches. There's something to that logic for sure. Certainly there's more historical proof of that than the former. Football is such a different sport to coach than basketball too, which is much more individualized. Being the head coach on a football team involves overseeing so many more people and moving pieces, it's much more difficult than the transition from player to coach in the NBA. What other metric for measuring greatness in team sports is there other than championships? So taking 3 straight teams to a level clearly beyond their talent is "middling" but if he'd won a title he'd have been great. Gotcha. No, I said (and even said it in the op) that labeling Bird as a middle coach is unfair. Maybe even retarded. But so too is labeling him great when he has no rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 There's something to that logic for sure. Certainly there's more historical proof of that than the former. Football is such a different sport to coach than basketball too, which is much more individualized. Being the head coach on a football team involves overseeing so many more people and moving pieces, it's much more difficult than the transition from player to coach in the NBA. What other metric for measuring greatness in team sports is there other than championships? No, I said (and even said it in the op) that labeling Bird as a middle coach is unfair. Maybe even retarded. But so too is labeling him great when he has no rings. I look at greatness differently than the rest of the mouth breathers. If Larry Bird had been coaching the teams his teams had lost to in the playoffs, he would have rings. Would Phil Jackson have beaten Larry Bird if the two switched places? No !@#$ing way and the results are likely more skewed toward the more talented team. Shaq and Kobe in their primes against aging Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, and Rick Smits? Please. I don't consider Marv Levy a great coach because I believe Joe Gibbs, Jimmie Johnson, and Bill Parcells all win Super Bowls with the BILLS against their respective teams with Levy at the helm. Donnie Walsh, who has forgotten more about basketball than all but a handful of people on this planet know, said Bird was the best manager of a team that he's ever seen. That holds more weight than you trying to displace shoving your leg down your gullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I look at greatness differently than the rest of the mouth breathers. If Larry Bird had been coaching the teams his teams had lost to in the playoffs, he would have rings. Would Phil Jackson have beaten Larry Bird if the two switched places? No !@#$ing way and the results are likely more skewed toward the more talented team. Shaq and Kobe in their primes against aging Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, and Rick Smits? Please. I don't consider Marv Levy a great coach because I believe Joe Gibbs, Jimmie Johnson, and Bill Parcells all win Super Bowls with the BILLS against their respective teams with Levy at the helm. Donnie Walsh, who has forgotten more about basketball than all but a handful of people on this planet know, said Bird was the best manager of a team that he's ever seen. That holds more weight than you trying to displace shoving your leg down your gullet. I'm still waiting for your suggested metric for measuring greatness in team sports... or is this it? You go off feel and your gut when determining this? That seems rather subjective, arbitrary and unhelpful in terms of discussion purposes. You sure you don't want to rethink the way you classify things? I've been around professional athletes my entire life, was raised by one, and to a man each one will tell you that all that matters is winning rings. Bird would agree. As for the "That holds more than you trying to displace shoving your leg down your gullet," that's not true. I fully admit that middling was the wrong adjective to assign Bird's coaching tenure. But calling him a great coach is just as inaccurate. You cannot be considered "great" with zero rings in professional sports or coaching. Sorry. That's just how the world works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I've heard the adage, but Fred's no Larry Byrd or Michael Jordan type. I veiw him very much more like a Harbaugh. A very average athlete with no exceptional talent, but a raging fire, and will of steel. A combine never could have gotten the guy into the league, but he wouldn't be denied. He has exceptional talents - balance and vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Fred brown noses every coach we get. Just look at his comments after every hire. If Bryce Brown had the same carries or touches fred did,it wouldn`t be close. I`m betting he would have broke a few long runs and had more than a EYE- POPPING 2 tds. I`d like to see Thurm as a rb coach,not a 2nd or 3rd tier rb at best. It is what it is.Bryce got screwed ,Bigger ,FASTER,STronger Younger. Wow one fumble.One. Fred the suck -up. I hope the Pats pick up Brown when he gets cut for the nerd fan favorite.Puppy dogs and butterflies.That is why we lost all those yrs. No running back ,which made the line look worse than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bird isn't a middling anything: Mvps as a player, coach of the year, executive of the year. The guy craps excellence. Except parenting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 fred and kyle should both go right from retirement to position assistant, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 fred and kyle should both go right from retirement to position assistant, imo. Fred was on the nfl network a couple weeks ago ,saying he has at least 3 good yrs left. Should have seen Faulks face. Playing until he`s 37 or 38. Yeah O.K. fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Fred brown noses every coach we get. Just look at his comments after every hire. If Bryce Brown had the same carries or touches fred did,it wouldn`t be close. I`m betting he would have broke a few long runs and had more than a EYE- POPPING 2 tds. I`d like to see Thurm as a rb coach,not a 2nd or 3rd tier rb at best. It is what it is.Bryce got screwed ,Bigger ,FASTER,STronger Younger. Wow one fumble.One. Fred the suck -up. I hope the Pats pick up Brown when he gets cut for the nerd fan favorite.Puppy dogs and butterflies.That is why we lost all those yrs. No running back ,which made the line look worse than it was. While the what (jerks, buffalo turds, not sure what is right term), cheer for him to beat the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why should Fred (as a competitor) be helping his teamates with their games? The only thing he can show these players is how to prepare as you age as a player.....maybe some of those younger guys just can handle that? I think we will see a different side of Fred Jackson this year though.....he comes into this season as a unquestioned backup as they brought in a top 5 NFL running back.....so maybe the mentorship role will be more in affect. If the O line can't protect Cassel and McCoy isn't a factor, Fred will be in for sure to pass protect and catch screen passes--if he puts it on the carpet however--we'll know his age is a factor and use him solely for PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) What other metric for measuring greatness in team sports is there other than championships? I've never subscribed to this line of thought, especially in team sports. Too much is up to chance. If Joseph Addai had fumbled away the SB win would Manning not be great? Put differently, Using this argument you could claim Scotty Pippen was great and Barkley was not, when in reality Pippen wasn't fit to shine Barkley's shoes. And is Barry Switzer a great NFL football coach? He won a SB. Andy Reid never won a SB but I consider him a great coach for consistently having his team in the mix for years despite having generally inferior talent. Edited June 7, 2015 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So this is your first post once you've been re-admitted? Quite the pressing topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Fred was on the nfl network a couple weeks ago ,saying he has at least 3 good yrs left. Should have seen Faulks face. Playing until he`s 37 or 38. Yeah O.K. fred. Great sense of humor. Why not think that way? confidence and drive. i wish i had those things. Can Fred Coach? Well i dont know that. Can he play 3 more years ? i dont that either. But heck if that's his attitude than let him compete. If he does not make the cut this year then so be it. Let him play till he can't make the grade and let the Coaches eye decide that? Not mine or yours, friend. root for the laundry. as long as they wear that uniform! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What were you suspended for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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