Rubes Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I imagine it's probably a little easier to sell the Bills to a defensive FA than an offensive FA -- especially a receiver. A little more enticing to come work with a top defense and a top defensive coach, who will almost guarantee success, versus come to work with a really shaky offense, a new coordinator, and a huge question mark at the most important position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I imagine it's probably a little easier to sell the Bills to a defensive FA than an offensive FA -- especially a receiver. A little more enticing to come work with a top defense and a top defensive coach, who will almost guarantee success, versus come to work with a really shaky offense, a new coordinator, and a huge question mark at the most important position. Must be the money. Sincerely, Deion Sanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I imagine it's probably a little easier to sell the Bills to a defensive FA than an offensive FA -- especially a receiver. A little more enticing to come work with a top defense and a top defensive coach, who will almost guarantee success, versus come to work with a really shaky offense, a new coordinator, and a huge question mark at the most important position. I dont think you paint a pretty picture. If i were to look closely , i might think a TE under Roman and Rex might be interested. especially if they Pay The Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I imagine it's probably a little easier to sell the Bills to a defensive FA than an offensive FA -- especially a receiver. A little more enticing to come work with a top defense and a top defensive coach, who will almost guarantee success, versus come to work with a really shaky offense, a new coordinator, and a huge question mark at the most important position. Are you kidding me? EJ will be checking down to Clay all day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Must be the money. Sincerely, Deion Sanders I dont think you paint a pretty picture. If i were to look closely , i might think a TE under Roman and Rex might be interested. especially if they Pay The Man. Fair enough, but there's a lot of concern around here for not overpaying for talent, but that's what you're saying it comes down to. Sure, we can get anyone if we pay them enough, but how much more is it going to take to lure an offensive player to Buffalo, with the weather and the offensive problems and lack of a QB, versus, say, Miami, where life's a beach, the conditions are great, and there's an established QB? I'm just saying it's a little easier to sell a defensive player than an offensive player, at least at this point in time. Are you kidding me? EJ will be checking down to Clay all day! Now that's a good argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Fair enough, but there's a lot of concern around here for not overpaying for talent, but that's what you're saying it comes down to. Sure, we can get anyone if we pay them enough, but how much more is it going to take to lure an offensive player to Buffalo, with the weather and the offensive problems and lack of a QB, versus, say, Miami, where life's a beach, the conditions are great, and there's an established QB? I'm just saying it's a little easier to sell a defensive player than an offensive player, at least at this point in time. Now that's a good argument! you are right. The Offense is yet to show that they are ready for a run. But they might be good enough with some subtle pieces. And Clay could be QBs favorite in Romans Offense. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I imagine it's probably a little easier to sell the Bills to a defensive FA than an offensive FA -- especially a receiver. A little more enticing to come work with a top defense and a top defensive coach, who will almost guarantee success, versus come to work with a really shaky offense, a new coordinator, and a huge question mark at the most important position. In Clay's case, it's Miami, there is no state income tax, and he's getting $6M/year. I'd stay if I were him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) In Clay's case, it's Miami, there is no state income tax, and he's getting $6M/year. I'd stay if I were him as well. He's most likely not getting 6m/yr if he stays with Miami. That's what he wants, and he probably can get that or more if he goes to FA. Miami only has about 4m in cap space and still needs to sign Odrick, I don't think the stars are aligned for him there unless he takes a hometown discount. They aren't a winning team so that usually doesn't happen. Plus I heard the players don't love Regis Philbin down there. That would be some expensive weather if he just wanted to be hot for the three months of the season it is cold in Buffalo or elsewhere. Edited February 24, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 He's most likely not getting 6m/yr if he stays with Miami. That's what he wants, and he probably can get that or more if he goes to FA. Miami only has about 4m in cap space and still needs to sign Odrick, I don't think the stars are aligned for him there unless he takes a hometown discount. They aren't a winning team so that usually doesn't happen. Plus I heard the players don't love Regis Philbin down there. That would be some expensive weather if he just wanted to be hot for the three months of the season it is cold in Buffalo or elsewhere. The taxes alone cover a pretty wide gap between two offers. It's always made me wonder why leagues do not seem to regulate that issue somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The taxes alone cover a pretty wide gap between two offers. It's always made me wonder why leagues do not seem to regulate that issue somehow I'm curious about this as well. Given the varying state income tax laws it does seem as though certain franchises gain a distinct (and unfair) advantage in recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I really hope the Bills make a run at this guy CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm curious about this as well. Given the varying state income tax laws it does seem as though certain franchises gain a distinct (and unfair) advantage in recruitment. with the jock tax they pay taxes on where they play the games so a non state tax state has half their game checks, just home games, without state tax plus any others they end up being scheduled. Teams in other states with state tax can make them whole with bonuses, etc. If it's an issue. The Bills even played 3 games in FL in 2013 the way the schedule worked out. I think it's a bigger deal with NBA and MLB because their contracts are so much bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think I would rather Clay over Cameron Less of an injury concern due to Camerons concussions CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 with the jock tax they pay taxes on where they play the games so a non state tax state has half their game checks, just home games, without state tax plus any others they end up being scheduled. Teams in other states with state tax can make them whole with bonuses, etc. If it's an issue. The Bills even played 3 games in FL in 2013 the way the schedule worked out. I think it's a bigger deal with NBA and MLB because their contracts are so much bigger. if clay is a 6m guy, we are still talking about 3m tax free vs taxed. its not peanuts. it seems you could have some small cap adjuster built out that has miami starting with a few percentage points less out of the gate (say about half the average tax rate since only half the games would be at home). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Clay is pretty much the same build as Cameron only 2 inches shorter same weight I want Clay over Cameron CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Meh. Is clay really all that good? Looks only like a marginal upgrade over Chandler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I find the timing of this rumor very interesting. On the same day that stories emerge of Clay being close to re-signing with the Dolphins, numerous stories pop up that the Bills are interesting in him. Could it be that the Bills heard Clay was close to a deal with Miami and leaked their interest on purpose to hopefully get Clay to hold off on signing a lesser deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Meh. Is clay really all that good? Looks only like a marginal upgrade over Chandler. he is a different type of TE. He is more of an H-back hybrid. Roman really likes to use this type of player as you can line him up all over the field and create mismatches. He would not replace Chandler, he would be in addition to Chandler. He's a #1 caliber TE - Gray would be his backup as he is in the mold of Clay, like a poor man's version. Chandler would be TE #2. Roman likes to line up multiple TEs. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 he is a different type of TE. He is more of an H-back hybrid. Roman really likes to use this type of player as you can line him up all over the field and create mismatches. He would not replace Chandler, he would be in addition to Chandler. He's a #1 caliber TE - Gray would be his backup as he is in the mold of Clay, like a poor man's version. Chandler would be TE #2. Roman likes to line up multiple TEs. IMO. Thanks-- this is helpful info. Just looking at stats and ocassionally seeing Clay play, I never viewed him as an elite TE. But if you can use him in such a way that he will be an elite TE, then I can be down with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks-- this is helpful info. Just looking at stats and ocassionally seeing Clay play, I never viewed him as an elite TE. But if you can use him in such a way that he will be an elite TE, then I can be down with this.he isn't elite in terms of Graham and Gronk. But second tier, yes. The top guys are making a lot more than 6 mill. And only 26. He would be a big piece to this offense when you consider, his run blocking ability, the talent on the outside and if they add a RB. I think he would be worth it to the Bills with the offense they want to run. The Pats last year had to put Revis on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 In Clay's case, it's Miami, there is no state income tax, and he's getting $6M/year. I'd stay if I were him as well. It's funny everyone talks about places like miami and San Diego, yet they both are kinda whatever teams. Like has Miami been any better than us the last five years? I don't think the Miami thing carries that much weight IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 with the jock tax they pay taxes on where they play the games so a non state tax state has half their game checks, just home games, without state tax plus any others they end up being scheduled. Teams in other states with state tax can make them whole with bonuses, etc. If it's an issue. The Bills even played 3 games in FL in 2013 the way the schedule worked out. I think it's a bigger deal with NBA and MLB because their contracts are so much bigger. Thanks I wasn't familiar with the jock tax. Still not peanuts, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It's funny everyone talks about places like miami and San Diego, yet they both are kinda whatever teams. Like has Miami been any better than us the last five years? I don't think the Miami thing carries that much weight IMO. no one argues they are well run, simply they have a perk we dont. additionally for better or worse - some guys want to take their talent to south beach. the flip side being is that the type of guy you want as a cornerstone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo39416 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I'm curious about this as well. Given the varying state income tax laws it does seem as though certain franchises gain a distinct (and unfair) advantage in recruitment. I just did the quick math and it is about 200k/year difference between buffalo and miami depending on how the bonuses are paid out - also must account for (shocking marginally) higher property taxes down there.. You have to remember that you get taxed in the state that you play - not just your home state. Edited for property taxes comment - holy crap you guys pay a ton in property taxes up there. Edited February 24, 2015 by jo39416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 no one argues they are well run, simply they have a perk we dont. additionally for better or worse - some guys want to take their talent to south beach. the flip side being is that the type of guy you want as a cornerstone? As you say, the guys that would pick Miami/ SD instead of a better football situation in Green Bay for example because of other factors, probably aren't the guys you want on your team. Mike Wallace seems like he falls into that camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 As you say, the guys that would pick Miami/ SD instead of a better football situation in Green Bay for example because of other factors, probably aren't the guys you want on your team. Mike Wallace seems like he falls into that camp. like i said, im sure it can cut both ways.... some of the most arrogant, me first guys around have been absolute superstars, unlike the underperforming wallace. just like any team, those GMs have to get the right fits. whether they choose for weather, or minor pay difference or.... there are a lot of "selfish" reasons.... you just have to make sure you are getting the right guy, regardless of what steers him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) like i said, im sure it can cut both ways.... some of the most arrogant, me first guys around have been absolute superstars, unlike the underperforming wallace. just like any team, those GMs have to get the right fits. whether they choose for weather, or minor pay difference or.... there are a lot of "selfish" reasons.... you just have to make sure you are getting the right guy, regardless of what steers him. This is a huge part of recruiting IMO. The Bills over the last handful of years have had a better understanding of what type of players make sense. They have gone for a less needy, family oriented type of player that may be attracted to WNY. The schools are good for their kids, real estate is cheap and the facilities are first class. The families are treated the same way. The Bills have sought players that are wired more like Freddie than Willis. Buffalo is appealing to people like that. UPDATE: Right after I typed this all of the CJ wants to be back stuff started coming out. He is a great example of the type of guy that fits in perfectly in WNY. Edited February 24, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 He's most likely not getting 6m/yr if he stays with Miami. That's what he wants, and he probably can get that or more if he goes to FA. Miami only has about 4m in cap space and still needs to sign Odrick, I don't think the stars are aligned for him there unless he takes a hometown discount. They aren't a winning team so that usually doesn't happen. Does that also not include the draft? Last year at that spot the Bears paid 2.2M in cap space for Fuller. Between all those picks, would they have any space left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Does that also not include the draft? Last year at that spot the Bears paid 2.2M in cap space for Fuller. Between all those picks, would they have any space left? I don't know if it includes draft.., guessing it doesn't. Assuming they will need to make some cuts http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't know if it includes draft.., guessing it doesn't. Assuming they will need to make some cuts http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space It looks like there are a lot of people they can cut for savings, but if it means having them cut Cameron Wake to keep clay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It looks like there are a lot of people they can cut for savings, but if it means having them cut Cameron Wake to keep clay... or they could turn one of several guys salaries into signing bonus and shift it down the line if they are really into keeping clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Damn, Brian Hartline released. Probably so they can sign Clay. ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 54s54 seconds ago Dolphins to release WR Brian Hartline, avoiding his $5.9 million salary http://wp.me/p14QSB-9Iul Well isn't that a convenient number. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Damn, Brian Hartline released. Probably so they can sign Clay. ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 54s54 seconds ago Dolphins to release WR Brian Hartline, avoiding his $5.9 million salary http://wp.me/p14QSB-9Iul Well isn't that a convenient number. Sigh. What I like is Tannehill couldn't win with a bunch of help. Now they have to release players so they can sign others which makes the team worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Well bring on Jordan Cameron CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 They are also trying to trade Mike Wallace. Not like Tannehill ever throws the ball deep anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They are also trying to trade Mike Wallace. Not like Tannehill ever throws the ball deep anyway.. Perfect b.c no one will want Wallace, not with another crop of WRs coming out that is supposed to be almost as deep as last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 PatriotsSB50 @PatriotsSB49 5m5 minutes ago Between Hartline and Wallace the Dolphins will have spent $42.5m for 2 years of football. Keep paying WRs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OntarioRV Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Clay would be stupid to sign before free agency begins. I don't believe he will either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Clay would be stupid to sign before free agency begins. I don't believe he will either. Hope not. I want him here and think we will pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 @AlbertBreer: The transition tag for Dolphins TE Charles Clay (@AdamSchefter 1st reported) is officially filed. @AlbertBreer: Transition tags have been used sparsely since the Steve Hutchinson/poison pill deal. Matching rights, no comp. Clay's tender is $7.071M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts