After 100 Votes it Is Yes for Incognito

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Well, Riley will always been known as a racist, Vick a dog killer, rice a woman beater, & Big Ben a rapist. No matter what they do they will all be remember as that.

 

I think it comes down to RI isn't that great as folks here think. He is slightly above average at best. He was a POS before the Martin thing. He's a moron and takes stupid penalties.

 

So why go to all that trouble for at best a slightly above average g who hasn't had played in almost a year?

 

Because we could get him for far less than his talent is worth.

[Gugny]

So why go to all that trouble for at best a slightly above average g who hasn't had played in almost a year?

 

Because he would still upgrade our line.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Because he would still upgrade our line.

 

IMO, he's not a good enough player for all the BS he brings. If he was Mike iupati, it's one thing. But he is a journeyman who made one pro bowl as alternate.

 

If the Bills really wanted a guard, they should call SF about Alex Boone. Much better player and not a giant POS. Eff RI.

[Gugny]

IMO, he's not a good enough player for all the BS he brings. If he was Mike iupati, it's one thing. But he is a journeyman who made one pro bowl as alternate.

 

If the Bills really wanted a guard, they should call SF about Alex Boone. Much better player and not a giant POS. Eff RI.

I'd just feel more comfortable if they did something to upgrade the line. I do not, in any way, believe Incognito is a decent person. It wasn't too long ago that I would be dead set against the Bills kicking his tires. But dammit ... I am so sick of this team losing that I don't care anymore. I have lines that I'd rather they didn't cross. I wouldn't want Ray Rice on this team, for instance. But Incognito hasn't crossed any lines of mine. If he can help protect the QB and make holes better than what we've got, then I'm all for him.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

I'd just feel more comfortable if they did something to upgrade the line. I do not, in any way, believe Incognito is a decent person. It wasn't too long ago that I would be dead set against the Bills kicking his tires. But dammit ... I am so sick of this team losing that I don't care anymore. I have lines that I'd rather they didn't cross. I wouldn't want Ray Rice on this team, for instance. But Incognito hasn't crossed any lines of mine. If he can help protect the QB and make holes better than what we've got, then I'm all for him.

 

Gugny, I always appreciate the dialogue. But RI helped destroy the Dolphins. He got kicked off the Rams. He got kicked out of 2 colleges. He is about as unstable of a person as there is in the league. I can see him picking on Wood (hey fat kid from Bad Santa) and Wood murdering him.

 

I think Wood murdering a team might be bad for team morale. Jmo.

[FireChan]

 

 

Gugny, I always appreciate the dialogue. But RI helped destroy the Dolphins. He got kicked off the Rams. He got kicked out of 2 colleges. He is about as unstable of a person as there is in the league. I can see him picking on Wood (hey fat kid from Bad Santa) and Wood murdering him.

 

I think Wood murdering a team might be bad for team morale. Jmo.

 

Wood had nothing bad to say about RI when he was here, and Wood is a vet. Still, there's credence to the philosophy that he'll be on his best behavior on this last go around. And if not, they can just cut him. Where's the risk?

[Owf71]

Um we had him once before, he's banned from a bunch of local places for being an !@#$ and he hated buffalo. PASS

[CountDorkula]

Um we had him once before, he's banned from a bunch of local places for being an !@#$ and he hated buffalo. PASS

 

How do you know this. A friend of a friend saw him or knows a guy?

[Gugny]

Gugny, I always appreciate the dialogue. But RI helped destroy the Dolphins. He got kicked off the Rams. He got kicked out of 2 colleges. He is about as unstable of a person as there is in the league. I can see him picking on Wood (hey fat kid from Bad Santa) and Wood murdering him.

 

I think Wood murdering a team might be bad for team morale. Jmo.

Fat kid from Bad Santa - wicked nice call.

Destroying the Dolphins gets him points!

As FireChan stated - the risk is non-existent. If he acts up, cut him and put whomever he replaced back in.

 

How do you know this. A friend of a friend saw him or knows a guy?

His brother-in-law golfed with a guy who's cousin was banging Incongnito's step-brother and he heard it from her little sister's ex-best friend.

[GunnerBill]

If he can help protect the QB and make holes better than what we've got, then I'm all for him.

 

If he divides the locker room (and let's be honest he has significant previous) then the extra few yards will be less significant.

[RuntheDamnBall]

While I was in the camp of not bringing in this guy, and stated many reasons for it. I've since changed my mind as I watched Pears get owned at RG by the Bucs, and graded (-4.2). Even the rookies at LG Richardson, and RT Henderson graded better then he did!

 

Then LG Chris Williams who has been out with a back injury graded a horrid (-21.8) last year with the Rams, and was graded as the weak link on that St Louis line.

 

 

Richie Incognito graded slightly better then Andy Levitre did at OG (+17.3), and would be an instant improvement at OG over any of the current players on the roster. I want to see the team win the line of scrimmage battle every game, and more importantly win games. I just don't see it with the current players.

 

Either Incognito or trade the 49ers for holdout OG Alex Boone, who would also be an upgrade over any of the current guards on the team.

I hope the staff is using more than one preseason game to grade Pears at RG.

[Keukasmallies]

Don't the Bills have enough problems w/o considering bringing a proven divisive force into the locker room?

[K-9]

Yeah, he's a helluva guy. Even if he were a perennial All Pro, it wouldn't be enough to counter his level of douche baggery. Lest we have forgotten already:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/police-report-details-incognitos-alleged-inappropriate-behavior-with-golf-club-volunteer

 

I can't believe such a large segment of our fan base would settle for this a-hole.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[nucci]

Don't the Bills have enough problems w/o considering bringing a proven divisive force into the locker room?

Don't you know that every available player is better than anyone on the Bills roster?

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah, he's a helluva guy. Even if he were a perennial All Pro, it wouldn't be enough to counter his level of douche baggery. Lest we have forgotten already:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/police-report-details-incognitos-alleged-inappropriate-behavior-with-golf-club-volunteer

 

I can't believe such a large segment of our fan base would settle for this a-hole.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

But he is a slightly above average guard! I'll let him molest my girlfriend for his slightly above average guard play!

[K-9]

But he is a slightly above average guard! I'll let him molest my girlfriend for his slightly above average guard play!

 

One decent season does not an above average guard make. The best thing I can say about his play is that he doesn't suck. Not a ringing endorsement. He's a knuckle dragging idiot with sociopathic tendencies. It would be a huge mistake IMO to add him to the mix on this young team trying to establish an identity.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[snamsnoops]

The fact we have multiple RI threads makes me really sad. He is a POS person (whatever) but more importantly, a solid G. We can't do better than a solid G who is a POS? That's depressing.

 

I'd rather see Richardson grow into the role. He was dominating at times last year.

I support this statement!

 

Remember when Mike Williams was a cancer to?

 

I'm all in for this----Chris Williams is having back trouble and our next best Guard we decided was our RT we couldn't wait to kick to the curb.

U didn't compare M Williams to RI! Williams is more the goofball type. RI has serious mental issues. I havent heard Wiiliams was a cancer but i did hear he could be a distraction and has played for 1 club,,, since being here, he has been on board with everything we are doing and the bills have benefited from him being here. RI is a stoopid idiot that has played for 3 clubs, been accused multiple times for being a really really dirty person, and oh the whole mental problems. Keep him away from this club.

[FireChan]

I support this statement!

 

U didn't compare M Williams to RI! Williams is more the goofball type. RI has serious mental issues. I havent heard Wiiliams was a cancer but i did hear he could be a distraction and has played for 1 club,,, since being here, he has been on board with everything we are doing and the bills have benefited from him being here. RI is a stoopid idiot that has played for 3 clubs, been accused multiple times for being a really really dirty person, and oh the whole mental problems. Keep him away from this club.

 

Williams was stabbed. Let's not act like he just goofs off in practice.

[snamsnoops]

Williams was stabbed. Let's not act like he just goofs off in practice.

I didnt say "he just goofs off in practice." I said he was a goofball. Meaning all the time, and he probably had maturity problems. He seems to have finally started to grow up. He was stabbed by his brother in his home. Do you have a brother? He went to the hospital n was released.Brothers fight, a lot. He wasn't out on the streets getting into fights, he was in his house and things got out of control. Now its looks to be a steal for the bills in trading for him.

 

RI has mental issues and is a terrible person.

[papazoid]

hell NO

[Beerball]

I'm still formulating my opinion & I haven't yet voted in this pole. I find it ludicrous that the OP has decided that 100 votes constitutes a valid vote. Obviously this poster lives in Broward County FL.

[peterpan]

Sign him for one year until Richardson is ready to start

[The Dean]

Don't you know that every available player is better than anyone on the Bills roster?

But he is a slightly above average guard! I'll let him molest my girlfriend for his slightly above average guard play!

 

This pretty much sums up this thread for me. When RI was with the Bills he was decent, but not much better. He was a restricted free agent who the Bills decided to not re-sign. I don't recall any complaints on The Wall when he left. People are pretty vocal around here when it comes to letting FA's walk. Especially a RFA.

 

I guess because it's now 5 years later--long enough for Richie to get the Bills stink off of him (for those in the, "any player available is better than any player we have" camp). But the question remains, "is he a significantly better than what we already have at G?" First of all, I'm not sure he is better than all of our guards. If he is, then it is because we have a guy who is raw, but far more athletic, and probably more talented, who just needs some game time experience. Incognito has missed all the workouts, camp and preseason. What make you think he can show up and play to any acceptable level? Even if he worked out offseason, he will need some time to get into "football shape". By that time, we may not even need him.

 

So the question remains, why bring in a total POS for minimal reward and mess with chemistry the Bills are trying to build with the OL? Well it's clear that one reason is because he isn't on our team, and that makes him very appealing to some here. But I think his reputation is another reason some like him---especially with his supposed harassment of Martin. It's clear that some here think that's a GOOD thing. "This ain't kindergarten" one poster noted. No s#!t. WTF does that have to do with anything. The NFL tolerates more BS from it's employees than most other employers, but being an idiot isn't a requirement for the job. You can be a total neanderthal and play football, but it's not required for the job.

 

So, if you really believe the Bills would be better off with RI because you think he can step in off the street and instantly play at a high level, and do that with no detrimental impact on the line, and team in general, well fine. But I'd advise you to think about that a bit. But it's fairly clear that some of the "sign Incognito" comes from the same posters who value players who aren't on the team more than they value our own. And of course, for the guys who think that RI is cool because it's good to be a douchebag in football.

 

I'm still formulating my opinion & I haven't yet voted in this pole. I find it ludicrous that the OP has decided that 100 votes constitutes a valid vote. Obviously this poster lives in Broward County FL.

 

Or that any number of "votes", asked in an Internet forum, is indicative of anything. OR that, even if this did represent the feelings of those on TSW, that it means anything whatsoever.

[KD in CA]

I'm still formulating my opinion & I haven't yet voted in this pole. I find it ludicrous that the OP has decided that 100 votes constitutes a valid vote. Obviously this poster lives in Broward County FL.

 

Exactly. It's not valid until we put a panel together to evaluate how people intended to vote.

[Rob's House]

Guys who get in trouble with the law (whilst clealry a serious societal problem) are less of an issue in the dressing room if they are a good teammate and engage in the correct locker room culture. Their problems are outside of that door. Incognito is not a good teammate and has in the past tried to fight his Head Coach and forced a teammate out of the league with his "banter". I don't believe that is goog for your locker room and as someone who has coached sport, albeit soccer not football, at a semi-professional level I will tell you this for nothing - if your locker room is divided you are sunk before you even step foot on the field.

 

What Incognito did in Miami didn't just divide a locker room it smashed one to pieces. So in answer, no, I don't think it was one bit underplayed. Indeed, I think if Incognito does get thrown an NFL lifeline by some team he has gotten away pretty lightly.

 

You should be a writer for Lifetime.

[FireChan]

Vote for Richie or he'll take your lunch money.

[dayman]

We look like we might suck terribly this year. Sign his ass--he can help us. He won't bully again, even Richie isn't that stupid.

[Gugny]

I'm still formulating my opinion & I haven't yet voted in this pole. I find it ludicrous that the OP has decided that 100 votes constitutes a valid vote. Obviously this poster lives in Broward County FL.

You just reminded me how much I hate the name, "Chad." It's right up there with, "Chip," and "Danny."

[tennesseeboy]

We are looking for an aggressive offensive lineman...not a guy to take our sister to the prom. We got rid of Marshawn Lynch because we thought he was an a-hole. I think if we looked a little more at whether the person could actually play the game. There is a reason we haven't been in the playoffs all of these years.

[Gugny]

We are looking for an aggressive offensive lineman...not a guy to take our sister to the prom. We got rid of Marshawn Lynch because we thought he was an a-hole. I think if we looked a little more at whether the person could actually play the game. There is a reason we haven't been in the playoffs all of these years.

You wouldn't, by chance, have a pic of your sister ...

[kickedface]

i like his style of play. the whole locker room mess in miami has more to do with the crybaby. his team mates went to bat for him and not martin. plus he's an upgrade. i say do it.

[thewildrabbit]

I hope the staff is using more than one preseason game to grade Pears at RG.

Its not just one preseason game. Haven't you been watching him the last few years? While he plays decently at times, he tends to fall on his face against the good teams. Who needs a player who will grade in the red against the Patriots every time they play. Huge difference between a player you try and get by with, and someone who is a good talent.

 

While I don't condone anything the guy has done in terms of his behavior. I just know that you can't teach talent, and he has more then any OG currently on the roster.

 

The ONLY reason I'd even give the guy a chance is because I know this current staff is on their last chance, and If they don't win NOW, they are gone.

 

 

 

Like I stated in my previous post. There still is a chance to trade for 49er holdout Alex Boone who started the last 32 games at OG for the Niners. He also grades better then any of the current Bills players on the roster. I'd just like to see someone better then who they have.

 

i like his style of play. the whole locker room mess in miami has more to do with the crybaby. his team mates went to bat for him and not martin. plus he's an upgrade. i say do it.

There is more truth in that then a lot here realize.

 

What actually caused Martin to quit the team was when he started to sit down for dinner at the O linemen's table, and the rest of the O line players ALL got up and left. Martin played poorly at RT, and the Dolphins ex GM Ireland had a brainfart to move Martin to LT where he was incredibly bad. None of the Dolphin O line players liked Martin, they thought he was overpaid, and shouldn't be a starter. He was getting tallywhacker killed. I realize that this is irrelevant at this point.

 

"It's a major hurdle cleared by Incognito to make a return to the field. He now needs a team to take a shot on him. Incognito, 31, is still an above-average blocker; he just has to keep a level head. The Bucs brought him in for a visit on Monday. There are reportedly three-to-five teams interested in Incognito's services. He's expected to sign with a club before the end of the week. Aug 25 - 8:11 PM"

 

http://www.rotoworld...ichie-incognito

 

 

 

EDIT*Just a note. The Buccaneers saw their O line getting crushed by the Bills D line, and then promptly went and traded for 6 time pro bowl OG Logan Mankins.

 

http://www.foxsports...-to-bucs-082614

Edited August 28, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[Rob's House]

i like his style of play. the whole locker room mess in miami has more to do with the crybaby. his team mates went to bat for him and not martin. plus he's an upgrade. i say do it.

 

I agree. I never liked Incognito in the first place, but this "bullying" business and its severity is based solely on Martin's reaction. It's as though it's wholly inconceivable that Martin may have been overly sensitive, and that his meltdown may have been unforseeable.

 

IMO, the harsh backlash is due to a combination of 1. people projecting the image of their own tormentors onto Incognito, and 2. people that love an opportunity to show their moral superiority (See every Michael Sam thread ever).

[Matt in KC]

I voted no.

 

But, it might make sense to bring him in after the first game if our guards really struggle. Players signed after the first game do not have a guaranteed salary. They could be completely clear he's on a very short leash, that he needs to shut up and make himself invaluable to play the year and salvage his career.

 

In general I don't want the POS anywhere near our team, but would consider it if we're desperate and had significant leverage on him to just shut up and play.

[KD in CA]

I agree. I never liked Incognito in the first place, but this "bullying" business and its severity is based solely on Martin's reaction. It's as though it's wholly inconceivable that Martin may have been overly sensitive, and that his meltdown may have been unforseeable.

 

IMO, the harsh backlash is due to a combination of 1. people projecting the image of their own tormentors onto Incognito, and 2. people that love an opportunity to show their moral superiority (See every Michael Sam thread ever).

 

Get with the times Rob, no such thing as being 'overly sensitive' anymore!

 

The suspense in this race to 100 is killing me....

[FireChan]

I voted no.

 

But, it might make sense to bring him in after the first game if our guards really struggle. Players signed after the first game do not have a guaranteed salary. They could be completely clear he's on a very short leash, that he needs to shut up and make himself invaluable to play the year and salvage his career.

 

In general I don't want the POS anywhere near our team, but would consider it if we're desperate and had significant leverage on him to just shut up and play.

 

What if he's gone by week one? Several "hindsight" threads?

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

I didnt say "he just goofs off in practice." I said he was a goofball. Meaning all the time, and he probably had maturity problems. He seems to have finally started to grow up. He was stabbed by his brother in his home. Do you have a brother? He went to the hospital n was released.Brothers fight, a lot. He wasn't out on the streets getting into fights, he was in his house and things got out of control. Now its looks to be a steal for the bills in trading for him.

 

RI has mental issues and is a terrible person.

 

Can you explain to me how Mike Williams can change and grow up but Incognito can't.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Its not just one preseason game. Haven't you been watching him the last few years? While he plays decently at times, he tends to fall on his face against the good teams. Who needs a player who will grade in the red against the Patriots every time they play. Huge difference between a player you try and get by with, and someone who is a good talent.

I've been watching him at RT, not RG. Not sure what games you've been watching where you have the book on him at a different position.

 

While I don't condone anything the guy has done in terms of his behavior. I just know that you can't teach talent, and he has more then any OG currently on the roster.

 

The ONLY reason I'd even give the guy a chance is because I know this current staff is on their last chance, and If they don't win NOW, they are gone.

I am not sold on Incognito's talent. It is not like the guy has anchored any playoff teams. And another thing TB did, by the way, was talk to Incognito. Instead they decided to take on a lot of salary and take on the risk that Belicheck was not just selling high on an aging player. While giving up a starter and a draft pick. I like Mankins and am inclined to believe he has something in the tank, but there's a chance he doesn't.

 

Back to Incognito: a team on its last chance might not want to bring in the most widely publicized circus animal to play OL in the past decade, but I guess we just see it differently.

 

And two things about trades.

1) If you think Belicheck would ever trade someone who might cause him problems later on to someone in the division, that's delusional thinking at best.

2) Takes two to tango. I am sure any GM worth his salt is having dialogue with teams all over the league. It is not an easy game. You need to gauge value, ability for guys to plug in, the possibility that guys end up on waivers and hence come without extra costs... You cannot strong-arm another team into trading you players. This is not Madden.

 

Can you explain to me how Mike Williams can change and grow up but Incognito can't.

Sure, he could. Incognito is probably on his eighth chance, though, while Mike Williams is on his 3rd or so. Also, Mike Williams has a heck of a lot more talent, talent that people give extra chances for.

 

Incognito is an idiot who plays a position where smarts tend to serve you well. Think on that one for a minute. How much do drive-killing OL penalties piss you off? They piss me off a lot.

[FireChan]

I've been watching him at RT, not RG. Not sure what games you've been watching where you have the book on him at a different position.

 

 

I am not sold on Incognito's talent. It is not like the guy has anchored any playoff teams. And another thing TB did, by the way, was talk to Incognito. Instead they decided to take on a lot of salary and take on the risk that Belicheck was not just selling high on an aging player. While giving up a starter and a draft pick. I like Mankins and am inclined to believe he has something in the tank, but there's a chance he doesn't.

 

Back to Incognito: a team on its last chance might not want to bring in the most widely publicized circus animal to play OL in the past decade, but I guess we just see it differently.

 

And two things about trades.

1) If you think Belicheck would ever trade someone who might cause him problems later on to someone in the division, that's delusional thinking at best.

2) Takes two to tango. I am sure any GM worth his salt is having dialogue with teams all over the league. It is not an easy game. You need to gauge value, ability for guys to plug in, the possibility that guys end up on waivers and hence come without extra costs... You cannot strong-arm another team into trading you players. This is not Madden.

 

 

Sure, he could. Incognito is probably on his eighth chance, though, while Mike Williams is on his 3rd or so. Also, Mike Williams has a heck of a lot more talent, talent that people give extra chances for.

 

Incognito is an idiot who plays a position where smarts tend to serve you well. Think on that one for a minute. How much do drive-killing OL penalties piss you off? They piss me off a lot.

 

I think 2014 Mankins would be better than 2014 Incognito. Clearly worth an 4th and a "back-up?" TE. Especially seeing how TB is looking to turn it around in a weaker division.

 

Still, Mankins > than Incognito +4th+backup doesn't mean Incognito wouldn't upgrade our spot. Doug Legursky is still on this team.

 

Drive-killing O-line penalties don't hurt as much as 1 hand-turnstiles on our line.

Edited August 28, 2014 by FireChan

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think 2014 Mankins would be better than 2014 Incognito. Clearly worth an 4th and a "back-up?" TE. Especially seeing how TB is looking to turn it around in a weaker division.

No argument from me there, though I think Brady is going to use Wright well in this offense. Mankins should be worth that much, though, yes, despite the big $. Just saying, they had a chance to take Incognito for nothing besides money - less money than Mankins makes. Instead, they parted with assets and a lot of money.

Still, Mankins > than Incognito +4th+backup doesn't mean Incognito wouldn't upgrade our spot. Doug Legursky is still on this team.

 

Drive-killing O-line penalties don't hurt as much as 1 hand-turnstiles on our line.

 

I don't see Legursky on this team after cuts. I don't see Incognito as an upgrade over Richardson long-term, over Pears short-term because of the stupid play, or over Hairston despite the injuries. I think on talent they are pretty interchangeable. I am sure I could be proven wrong.