Ray Rice suspended two games? (Update: now cut/suspended)

[Fingon]

Maybe it is time to set a new precedent?

Hence the new rules.

[Numark3]

Just so you know, you misunderstand my use of the word "intent" in the previous posts. I 100% agree with everything you wrote. The point you are missing about what I am saying is there is no court of law, no criminal trial, no legal charges. The NFL is not a court of law deciding on legal definitions of words and actions. They are making opinion based decisions based on what they believe the incident to be. And in this case, I don't see any evidence suggesting he intended to knock her out. Thats what the NFL is going to base this on given there are NO criminal charges to weigh.

 

I'm going to drop the intent argument after this, but you are the only person who doesnt see that intent. The reason i brought up how civil or criminal courts view intent, is because that is the msot fair way to do it. How in the world you can watch that video and not comprehend that someone punching someone intends to cause harm (including knocking them out), is beyond me .

[NoSaint]

 

Cedric Benson got 3 games for assault in 2010, and Benson was a multiple time offender. He punched some bar employee the year before that and only got a warning from Goodell. He only received a suspension for the 3 games after he was convicted of beating up an ex-roommate.

 

I would say Ray Rice's suspension is right where it should be based on precedent. Which is most likely why the NFL instituted their new rules.

 

and if you want to change it, i understand why with a CBA and union involved and players facing potentially millions in fines you have to announce the shift as the nfl just did.

[Gugny]

Except, you know, for the part where he clocked her.

I haven't watched the video. From what I've read, he swung in a "roundhouse" fashion. Is that the case?

[Pondslider]

Whether he slapped her or punched her is ridiculous and doesn't matter.

Did he hit her? Yes.

On purpose? Yup.

Is that ok? No.

Did he hit her hard enough that she fell and hit her head on a metal railing and was knocked unconscious? You betcha.

Is alcohol ever an excuse for violence? Nope!

In either video do we immediately see him on his phone to call an ambulance or showing really any concern whatsoever for her well-being? Nah.

Are these the actions of a piece of ****? Absolutely.

Does he have a right to continue to play in the NFL? Not at all.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Pondslider

[Numark3]

In case this what missed, here is the official statement from the nfl on the video:

 

 

“We requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident, including the video from inside the elevator. That video was not made available to us and no one in our office has seen it until today,” the league said in its statement.

 

http://profootballta...eo-until-today/

Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64

[Deranged Rhino]

I haven't watched the video. From what I've read, he swung in a "roundhouse" fashion. Is that the case?

 

He slaps her once then decks her when she charges.

[billsfan1959]

Just so you know, you misunderstand my use of the word "intent" in the previous posts. I 100% agree with everything you wrote. The point you are missing about what I am saying is there is no court of law, no criminal trial, no legal charges. The NFL is not a court of law deciding on legal definitions of words and actions. They are making opinion based decisions based on what they believe the incident to be. And in this case, I don't see any evidence suggesting he intended to knock her out. Thats what the NFL is going to base this on given there are NO criminal charges to weigh.

I think this is what we are having a difference with Alpha. We all know you are not defending him. My issue is twofold: 1) Your interpretation of the video does not seem to square with what most people see and 2) Your argument that there is no proof that he intended to knock her out should somehow make a difference in how Rice's actions should be judged. It doesn't.

[Alphadawg7]

You keep talking about facts, the nfl just said they never saw the video until now...

 

 

http://profootballta...eo-until-today/

 

And criminal charges dont matter to the nfl and they have already set that precedent. Maybe you should try to re-articulate what you mean, because no one understands you and you keep saying everyone is twisting what you say

 

I don't believe the NFL never saw the tape. It was reported they did, now that its public they claim no because of public relations issues. I find it a stretch to say that TMZ can get the video and the NFL could not.

 

And I know criminal charges don't matter, thats why they suspended him 2 games. If criminal charges mattered, he would have gotten no games.

 

Again, I think the Ravens should cut him. I thought they should have when it first came out and I think they still should. I am just stating that I understand the ruling of two games by the NFL from their position based on the evidence of events. I am again, only defending the NFL here, and I do feel more action is needed, I just feel its the Ravens that should take it.

[Mr. WEO]

A bell hop said that. There is another source (albeit, pft) saying that Goodell had NOT seen this video.

 

Was that "bellhop" you keep mentioning named "Peter King", because he reported on 7/29 that the NFL and the Ravens saw this elevator tape.

[Deranged Rhino]

I don't believe the NFL never saw the tape.

 

I'm beginning to think you didn't see the tape. He hit her twice, not once. And the second hit was most definitely a punch.

[Numark3]

I don't believe the NFL never saw the tape. It was reported they did, now that its public they claim no because of public relations issues. I find it a stretch to say that TMZ can get the video and the NFL could not.

 

And I know criminal charges don't matter, thats why they suspended him 2 games. If criminal charges mattered, he would have gotten no games.

 

Again, I think the Ravens should cut him. I thought they should have when it first came out and I think they still should. I am just stating that I understand the ruling of two games by the NFL from their position based on the evidence of events. I am again, only defending the NFL here, and I do feel more action is needed, I just feel its the Ravens that should take it.

 

So now the NFL is liars, and you are the only person who has that opinion of the video (he didnt intend to knock her out. As if when you punch someone you get to choose how much damage is done and defend it). Only here at TBD boys and girls...

Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64

[1billsfan]

Except, you know, for the part where he clocked her.

 

Also, he keeps saying that he slapped her when the slow motion part (if you pause on the knockout hit) on the TMZ video looks exactly like a closed fist. A pro football player punching a woman in the head like Ray Rice did, is like an average man punching a defenseless child in the head. It doesn't matter what the person's head hit after the initial punch. This guy needs to quit defending this coward, it's embarrassing.

[Captain Hindsight]

Sounds like they may release him tonight. Big cap hit but they would finally be doing the right thing.

 

I will always respect the pats for cutting bait with Hernandez after he was arrested. Cap implications be damned

[Alphadawg7]

I'm going to drop the intent argument after this, but you are the only person who doesnt see that intent. The reason i brought up how civil or criminal courts view intent, is because that is the msot fair way to do it. How in the world you can watch that video and not comprehend that someone punching someone intends to cause harm (including knocking them out), is beyond me .

 

Again, I am not saying he didn't intend to hit her or cause harm. I am saying I didn't see a moment of rage where he cold knocked her out. There is a difference in an authoritative or legal ruling.

 

If and I get into a fist fight and I slip and fall and die, then that will be a completely different ruling than if you picked up a weapon and beat me to death. Both have penalties, one is more severe than the next.

 

Again, he deserves punishment, even though there were no criminal charges. NFL gave him punishment. I actually agree he deserves more punishment and have said a dozen times the Ravens should cut him. I am just saying the NFL suspended him for two games, and based on the circumstances I don't see a reason to make the NFL the villain here.

[Numark3]

Sounds like they may release him tonight. Big cap hit but they would finally be doing the right thing.

 

I will always respect the pats for cutting bait with Hernandez after he was arrested. Cap implications be damned

 

Well....he was going to jail lol

[Deranged Rhino]

Also, he keeps saying that he slapped her when the slow motion part (if you pause on the knockout hit) on the TMZ video looks exactly like a closed fist. A pro football player punching a woman in the head like Ray Rice did, is like an average man punching a defenseless child in the head. It doesn't matter what the person's head hit after the initial punch. This guy needs to quit defending this coward, it's embarrassing.

 

Yeah. Rice slapped her when they first got on the lift, then clearly punched her as she charged. He used her momentum against her, the punch he delivered was right on the knockout button too.

 

But that wasn't his intent because Alpha watched Ray's footwork.

[Captain Hindsight]

In case this what missed, here is the official statement from the nfl on the video:

 

 

 

 

http://profootballta...eo-until-today/

I'm sure TMZ worked hard to get this but I doubt the NFL with their ex-CIA and FB staff couldn't get this video until now. Absolute horseshit

[Alphadawg7]

So now the NFL is liars, and you are the only person who has that opinion of the video (he didnt intend to knock her out. As if when you punch someone you get to choose how much damage is done and defend it). Only here at TBD boys and girls...

 

LOL...you mean this board who constantly claims the NFL has a conspiracy against the Bills, complains the NFL covered up the Pats, etc etc now is all of a sudden saying that the NFL are angels and wouldnt say something to help protect their public image on this?

[Deranged Rhino]

Again, I am not saying he didn't intend to hit her or cause harm. I am saying I didn't see a moment of rage where he cold knocked her out. There is a difference in an authoritative or legal ruling.

 

If and I get into a fist fight and I slip and fall and die, then that will be a completely different ruling than if you picked up a weapon and beat me to death. Both have penalties, one is more severe than the next.

 

Again, he deserves punishment, even though there were no criminal charges. NFL gave him punishment. I actually agree he deserves more punishment and have said a dozen times the Ravens should cut him. I am just saying the NFL suspended him for two games, and based on the circumstances I don't see a reason to make the NFL the villain here.

 

Then you didn't watch the video. He was clearly angry getting on the elevator, they were having words before the lift even arrived. As soon as they were alone he corners her, bumps her, then slaps her.

 

THEN she charges. To say he wasn't angry is ridiculous. There's more visual evidence he was angry than there is that he was calm.

[Captain Hindsight]

Well....he was going to jail lol

The Falcons kept Vick for 2 years while he was in Jail. The Cowboys kept Brent's rights after he killed a teammate in a car crash.

 

I hope they cut him tonight.

[Numark3]

Again, I am not saying he didn't intend to hit her or cause harm. I am saying I didn't see a moment of rage where he cold knocked her out. There is a difference in an authoritative or legal ruling.

 

No there isn't. Show me a case or statue that states if you hit someone with intent to harm is different than hitting someone with intent to knock her out. You are 100% wrong on that. Please stop

 

 

If and I get into a fist fight and I slip and fall and die, then that will be a completely different ruling than if you picked up a weapon and beat me to death. Both have penalties, one is more severe than the next.

 

That analogy makes no sense to this situation...

 

 

LOL...you mean this board who constantly claims the NFL has a conspiracy against the Bills, complains the NFL covered up the Pats, etc etc now is all of a sudden saying that the NFL are angels and wouldnt say something to help protect their public image on this?

 

lumping yourself with those nutjobs isnt the best route for you?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64

[Alphadawg7]

Ok look, I am done with this matter...this is getting twisted to mean I am validating Ray. I am not. I hate him and I think he should be cut from the Ravens.

 

All I ever stated was why I feel the NFL ruled for 2 games and why I feel in a situation like this it is the responsibility of the team, not the NFL, to rule further on this matter given no criminal charges and no history of violence or character issues.

 

BOTH ARE DISGUSTING ACTS...but I don't get the rage towards the NFL over something that was already known.

[Captain Hindsight]

Ray Rice Released

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23s

The #Ravens announce they have cut RB Ray Rice.

[Deranged Rhino]

Ok look, I am done with this matter...this is getting twisted to mean I am validating Ray. I am not. I hate him and I think he should be cut from the Ravens.

 

All I ever stated was why I feel the NFL ruled for 2 games and why I feel in a situation like this it is the responsibility of the team, not the NFL, to rule further on this matter given no criminal charges and no history of violence or character issues.

 

BOTH ARE DISGUSTING ACTS...but I don't get the rage towards the NFL over something that was already known.

 

No one is saying you're validating Ray. We're saying you're incorrectly stating opinions as facts -- and even your opinions about those facts are wrong as demonstrated by your lack of comprehension of the video itself. You claimed he never punched her but he did. You claim he had no intent but you have no way to determine intent and have no understanding of the legal definition of intent in battery cases.

 

That's why people are jumping on you.

[FluffHead]

Ray Rice Released

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23s

The #Ravens announce they have cut RB Ray Rice.

 

I wonder if he regrets naming his daughter Raven now.

[Deranged Rhino]

Ray Rice Released

 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23s

The #Ravens announce they have cut RB Ray Rice.

 

Bravo, Baltimore.

[eball]

Better late than never, Ravens.

[KOKBILLS]

Ray Rice Released

 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23s

The #Ravens announce they have cut RB Ray Rice.

 

Good!

[Alphadawg7]

No one is saying you're validating Ray. We're saying you're incorrectly stating opinions as facts -- and even your opinions about those facts are wrong as demonstrated by your lack of comprehension of the video itself. You claimed he never punched her but he did. You claim he had no intent but you have no way to determine intent and have no understanding of the legal definition of intent in battery cases.

 

That's why people are jumping on you.

 

Maybe there is a misunderstanding, I am not saying he didn't hit her. I said it wasn't the upper cut as reported previously and I do not believe the hit knocked her out.

 

To be clear, neither is acceptable.

 

Ray Rice Released

 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23s

The #Ravens announce they have cut RB Ray Rice.

 

THIS is what I stated should happen and I am thrilled to see them take a stand (albeit a late one) and cut him.

[Roger Goodell]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding, I am not saying he didn't hit her. I said it wasn't the upper cut as reported previously and I do not believe the hit knocked her out.

 

To be clear, neither is acceptable.

 

Exactly my rationale for the two game suspension; it was clearly a left cross, not an uppercut.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

I guess I'm one of the naive ones, because I did not expect to see what I saw in that video. I knew she was knocked out but I just didn't expect a full left cross to the jaw. Rice is a craptastic human being. If Goodell saw this video before administering the "punishment" he should just step down. What a disgrace.

 

As for Rice himself -- how does a teammate see that and then want to "go to war" with this guy? I would not at all be surprised to see the Ravens cut bait within the next week.

 

 

Good call. Did not see that coming.

[eball]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding, I am not saying he didn't hit her. I said it wasn't the upper cut as reported previously and I do not believe the hit knocked her out.

 

To be clear, neither is acceptable.

 

THIS is what I stated should happen and I am thrilled to see them take a stand (albeit a late one) and cut him.

 

Dawg, you picked a really tricky and hot-button issue to argue some narrowly construed and semantic points. Let's just be happy the Ravens (finally) did the right thing.

 

Rice is a piece of crap, and now that woman can sue him for half of his money and get the heck out of dodge.

[Alphadawg7]

Dawg, you picked a really tricky and hot-button issue to argue some narrowly construed and semantic points. Let's just be happy the Ravens (finally) did the right thing.

 

Rice is a piece of crap, and now that woman can sue him for half of his money and get the heck out of dodge.

 

LOL, yeah I know...I knew it was going to get twisted, but hey, its better than rehashing the old "EJ sucks" "No He Doesn't" threads around here. I just felt strongly that the NFL was an unfair victim of backlash based on the circumstances of the case. The Ravens were the ones who should have been taking the heat because the case was about character more than anything.

 

Ravens are going to get kudos today for this, but I also think its BS because they should have cut him before this came out. Video shows nothing new and they are only cutting him now to save face with its players and the public eye. Should have never been allowed to stay on that roster this long.

 

So, good move cutting him Ravens, but I don't give you too much credit because you didn't do it sooner.

 

PS: She doesn't have to sue him, she married him still. She just needs to divorce him and gets half his stuff anyway

Edited September 8, 2014 by Alphadawg7

[Doc]

Without knowing what happened in the elevator, the assumption was that she either instigated the altercation, or fought him back, which led him to cold rooster her ("mitigating factor"), and she assumed some of the blame. After seeing the video, that didn't happen, and that's why there is more outrage now.

 

As for Goodell, I can't see how he's not finished as commissioner. He's either lying about not having previously seen the video tape, which is inexcusable, or he handed down the judgment without seeing the video tape, which, if TMZ got it, he coulda have obtained himself, which is also inexcusable.

[bobobonators]

LOL, yeah I know...I knew it was going to get twisted, but hey, its better than rehashing the old "EJ sucks" "No He Doesn't" threads around here. I just felt strongly that the NFL was an unfair victim of backlash based on the circumstances of the case. The Ravens were the ones who should have been taking the heat because the case was about character more than anything.

 

Ravens are going to get kudos today for this, but I also think its BS because they should have cut him before this came out. Video shows nothing new and they are only cutting him now to save face with its players and the public eye. Should have never been allowed to stay on that roster this long.

 

So, good move cutting him Ravens, but I don't give you too much credit because you didn't do it sooner.

 

PS: She doesn't have to sue him, she married him still. She just needs to divorce him and gets half his stuff anyway

 

BINGO. O/U for their divorce: 6 months from now.

[eball]

PS: She doesn't have to sue him, she married him still. She just needs to divorce him and gets half his stuff anyway

 

All contested divorces start with a lawsuit.

 

As for Goodell, I can't see how he's not finished as commissioner. He's either lying about not having previously seen the video tape, which is inexcusable, or he handed down the judgment without seeing the video tape, which, if TMZ got it, he coulda have obtained himself, which is also inexcusable.

 

It will be very interesting to see if Mr. Goodell is able to escape this pressure cooker.

 

At least he knows he'll always have a place to stay (the Rice compound).

[Alphadawg7]

Without knowing what happened in the elevator, the assumption was that she either instigated the altercation, or fought him back, which led him to cold rooster her ("mitigating factor"), and she assumed some of the blame. After seeing the video, that didn't happen, and that's why there is more outrage now.

 

As for Goodell, I can't see how he's not finished as commissioner. He's either lying about not having previously seen the video tape, which is inexcusable, or he handed down the judgment without seeing the video tape, which, if TMZ got it, he coulda have obtained himself, which is also inexcusable.

 

I don't believe for a second the NFL didn't see the tape and I think they are lying to save face. They never denied seeing it before when people were using the tape as reason for the NFL only suspending him 2 games. Plus, I have a hard time believing the NFL couldn't get a tape that TMZ obtained. Given the Aaron Hernandez crap and the video of Ray dragging her out of an elevator, I can't imagine Goodell would gamble and just not watch the tape or try and get it. And again, if TMZ can get it so can they.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ABC

Just in: NFL Commissioner indefinitely suspends Ray Rice, based on new video evidence that became available today - @AaronKatersky

[tbonehawaii]

I don't believe for a second the NFL didn't see the tape and I think they are lying to save face. They never denied seeing it before when people were using the tape as reason for the NFL only suspending him 2 games. Plus, I have a hard time believing the NFL couldn't get a tape that TMZ obtained. Given the Aaron Hernandez crap and the video of Ray dragging her out of an elevator, I can't imagine Goodell would gamble and just not watch the tape or try and get it. And again, if TMZ can get it so can they.

And they purposefully destroyed the patriots cheating video