Ray Rice suspended two games? (Update: now cut/suspended)

[TXBILLSFAN]

As if Ray decking his fiance wasn't bad enough, this video shows that she didn't strike him at all AND he showed virtually zero regard for her after the hit.

 

Shame on you Roger, got it wrong ?, you got it way wrong.

 

Goodell needs to reopen the case and levy a suitable suspension of at least 6 games.

Edited September 8, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN

[FireChan]

Let me give an example for some of you. If a bank robber admits to robbing a bank, what does video evidence that comes out later of him robbing a bank mean? Does it change anything?

[Pneumonic]

What's as reprehensible as the punch itself is that, after he cold cocked her and she fell to the ground, he did nothing but simply stand over her without offering her any aid. Almost as if nothing happened .... or has happened before. What if she needed assistance? The guy's a deplorable animal. He's done in the NFL.

 

As for Godell. If he saw the video, and administered punishment, then he's a pathetic POS. if he passed judgement on this case, without doing proper due diligence (ie find the tape and view) it then he should be dismissed on grounds of incompetence. Isn't he a lawyer for crying out loud?

[Alphadawg7]

Ok, lets be realistic about this video for one second. Let me preface with the fact I am NOT defending Rice, just analyzing this video.

 

First, he clearly puts his hands on her. Thats inexcusable and punishment deserved.

 

However, if you actually watch the video closely, and more importantly in slow motion, she is NOT actually knocked out by Ray Rice. She is knocked out on her way down hitting her head on the steel bar on the elevator wall and then again on the floor.

 

Facts:

1. Video shows what looks like a drunken altercation prior to getting in the elevator where she also putting her hands on him. Then in the elevator you see him slap her after she and him are bickering by the buttons to select the floor. She then charged him and he slapped her again in a shoving manner. None of this is acceptable behavior, he's a full on deuche bag and piece of crap for hitting a female.

 

2. On the second slap she is charging him and on one foot, which is way behind her stance. With his strength it pushes her over into the wall where she falls and slams her head on the steel bar and floor.

 

He did not uppercut her and knock her out like Mike Tyson. Is slapping a woman acceptable, ABSOLUTELY NOT unless she poses an imminent threat with a weapon. However, there is a difference between getting into an argument and slapping each that results into an accident or a straight Mike Tyson punch knocking her out. Its a completely different degree of violence, especially when ruling on it as an authoritative body.

 

For example, if you get into a fight with someone and you both fall down stairs and the other dies...that sentencing will have a completely different degree than if you got pissed in the fight and pulled out a weapon and intentionally murdered them. Not comparing these two instances to this, just illustrating that the circumstances matter in a lawful analysis of punishment.

 

Again, I do NOT defend this a** hole, but just stating the facts of the video and how the NFL ruled on it. In the end, an argument, probably involving alcohol, got out of hand between him and his fiancee and he reacted in a very poor fashion that resulted in her hitting her head. I do not see why the NFL would suspend him for any more time than they did given he has no prior history of issues, no charges were filed, and video suggests a series of unfortunate events led to her getting knocked out, not a direct knock out from a punch. Again, only stating the side of the NFL as to how they came up with the 2 games.

 

On the other hand, the Ravens themselves could always just suspend him or cut him if they feel more action is needed and I wouldnt have a problem with that. The team is more responsible here than the NFL IMO. NFL has to rule on it more from a violation of rules, laws, etc. However the team can make their own decisions based on the disgusting nature of the incident, and they should.

 

Lets also not forget, she still married him and also accepted a role in those events and no charges were filed. People want to vilify this into a massive move of aggression and violence, but video suggests something got way out of hand, he shoved her, she accidentally hit her head. I did not get from this video that his intent was on knocking her out. If she does not hit her head and gets right back up, this would not be getting NEARLY as much attention nor would he have even gotten a suspension.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Alphadawg7

[billsfan1959]

Ok, lets be realistic about this video for one second. Let me preface with the fact I am NOT defending Rice, just analyzing this video.

 

First, he clearly puts his hands on her. Thats inexcusable and punishment deserved.

 

However, if you actually watch the video closely, and more importantly in slow motion, she is NOT actually knocked out by Ray Rice. She is knocked out on her way down hitting her head on the steel bar on the elevator wall and then again on the floor.

 

Facts:

1. Video shows what looks like a drunken altercation prior to getting in the elevator where she also putting her hands on him. Then in the elevator you see him slap her after she and him are bickering by the buttons to select the floor. She then charged him and he slapped her again in a shoving manner. None of this is acceptable behavior, he's a full on deuche bag and piece of crap for hitting a female.

 

2. On the second slap she is charging him and on one foot, which is way behind her stance. With his strength it pushes her over into the wall where she falls and slams her head on the steel bar and floor.

 

He did not uppercut her and knock her out like Mike Tyson. Is slapping a woman acceptable, ABSOLUTELY NOT unless she poses an imminent threat with a weapon. However, there is a difference between getting into an argument and slapping each that results into an accident or a straight Mike Tyson punch knocking her out. Its a completely different degree of violence, especially when ruling on it as an authoritative body.

 

For example, if you get into a fight with someone and you both fall down stairs and the other dies...that sentencing will have a completely different degree than if you got pissed in the fight and pulled out a weapon and intentionally murdered them. Not comparing these two instances to this, just illustrating that the circumstances matter in a lawful analysis of punishment.

 

Again, I do NOT defend this a** hole, but just stating the facts of the video and how the NFL ruled on it. In the end, an argument, probably involving alcohol, got out of hand between him and his fiancee and he reacted in a very poor fashion that resulted in her hitting her head. I do not see why the NFL would suspend him for any more time than they did given he has no prior history of issues, no charges were filed, and video suggests a series of unfortunate events led to her getting knocked out, not a direct knock out from a punch. Again, only stating the side of the NFL as to how they came up with the 2 games.

 

On the other hand, the Ravens themselves could always just suspend him or cut him if they feel more action is needed and I wouldnt have a problem with that. The team is more responsible here than the NFL IMO. NFL has to rule on it more from a violation of rules, laws, etc. However the team can make their own decisions based on the disgusting nature of the incident,.

 

Lets also not forget, she still married him and also accepted a role in those events and no charges were filed. People want to vilify this into a massive move of aggression and violence, but video suggests something got way out of hand, he shoved her, she accidentally hit her head. I did not get from this video that his intent was on knocking her out. If she does not hit her head and gets right back up, this would not be getting NEARLY as much attention nor would he have even gotten a suspension.

That is pure speculation. What is absolutely clear is that he struck her with enough force to send her head first into the rail and wall. And if you really want to analyze the video then look at his reaction to it all. As she hits the wall and floor, he does nothing at all. NO REACTION whatsoever - no indication of panic and no indication of concern for whether or not she is ok. He stands there until the door opens and then drags her part way out of the elevator. This wasn't an "oh my goodness, I didn't mean to do that" kind of moment.

 

IMO, this truly is not an incident you want to minimize

[Buftex]

Let me give an example for some of you. If a bank robber admits to robbing a bank, what does video evidence that comes out later of him robbing a bank mean? Does it change anything?

 

I understand what you are saying, and I agree. However, Goodell buckled to public sentiment on this issue last week (as he should have), and this will only amp that up again. The players union will give him a hard time, but I think he will have to re-visit the situation. There is nothing in the "new" video that anyone with a brain in their head should be surprised by. However, if you haven't noticed, the NFL has been extremely reactive to bad PR over the last two years or so...trying to make up for lost time I guess.

[Numark3]

Let me give an example for some of you. If a bank robber admits to robbing a bank, what does video evidence that comes out later of him robbing a bank mean? Does it change anything?

 

1. That's a criminal case

2. In a civil case (including battery, better analogy than yours), new evidence could reopen a case in most states

3. This is neither civil nor criminal court, so what's your point?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64

[FireChan]

 

 

1. That's a criminal case

2. In a civil case (including battery, better analogy than yours), new evidence could reopen a case in most states

3. This is neither civil nor criminal court, so what's your point?

 

I'm making the case that anyone thinking logically would not race to be outraged by video confirmation.

 

New evidence? He admitted to hitting her, you don't need any evidence, let alone new evidence.

[Alphadawg7]

That is pure speculation. What is absolutely clear is that he struck her with enough force to send her head first into the rail and wall. And if you really want to analyze the video then look at his reaction to it all. As she hits the wall and floor, he does nothing at all. NO REACTION whatsoever - no indication of panic and no indication of concern for whether or not she is ok. He stands there until the door opens and then drags her part way out of the elevator. This wasn't an "oh my goodness, I didn't mean to do that" kind of moment.

 

IMO, this truly is not an incident you want to minimize

 

Actually, thats not speculation. You can see it clear as day in the video. There is no uppercut. She is on her one foot only which is behind her stance...add in the alcohol and any amount of force would take her footing away.

 

He clearly used force, and that is NOT acceptable. But it was NOT a knock out punch. She got knocked out because of him no doubt, but he did not hit her with the intent of knocking her out. There is a difference when ruling from an authoritative position. He will lose and get fried in courts of public opinion, and rightfully so. However, from a legal approach that the NFL had to take, 2 games was appropriate.

 

As far as the reaction, between being a celebrity, alcohol and shock, very plausible he just didn't know what to do and was freaking out and froze.

 

Its the Ravens that should rule from a character side, not the NFL, and take further action.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Alphadawg7

[Deranged Rhino]

Actually, thats not speculation. You can see it clear as day in the video. There is no uppercut. She is on her one foot only which is behind her stance...add in the alcohol and any amount of force would take her footing away.

 

He clearly used force, and that is NOT acceptable. But it was NOT a knock out punch. She got knocked out because of him no doubt, but he did not hit her with the intent of knocking her out. There is a difference when ruling from an authoritative position. He will lose and get fried in courts of public opinion, and rightfully so. However, from a legal approach that the NFL had to take, 2 games was appropriate.

 

Its the Ravens that should rule from a character side, not the NFL, and take further action.

 

You have a future in politics, lots of double talk there but nothing of substance. You're basing your entire belief on Rice's intent -- something you cannot possibly know yet are pretending to know for a certainty.

[Numark3]

I'm making the case that anyone thinking logically would not race to be outraged by video confirmation.

 

New evidence? He admitted to hitting her, you don't need any evidence, let alone new evidence.

 

I don't live in a black and white world, sorry I don't follow you. I can think of a million situations of domestic violence that vary. It isn't as simple as he hit her and the situation and facts don't matter at all. If she was in the elevator going at him and slapping him, thats one situation. If she takes a step to him, and he punches her out, that's another situation. Video evidence of the fact situation is absolutely new evidence (that is black and white)

 

A video is not confirmation of the facts, it itself provides new facts of the situation

Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64

[billsfan1959]

Actually, thats not speculation. You can see it clear as day in the video. There is no uppercut. She is on her one foot only which is behind her stance...add in the alcohol and any amount of force would take her footing away.

 

He clearly used force, and that is NOT acceptable. But it was NOT a knock out punch. She got knocked out because of him no doubt, but he did not hit her with the intent of knocking her out. There is a difference when ruling from an authoritative position. He will lose and get fried in courts of public opinion, and rightfully so. However, from a legal approach that the NFL had to take, 2 games was appropriate.

 

Its the Ravens that should rule from a character side, not the NFL, and take further action.

There is absolutely no way on earth you or anyone else can say, from that video, that she was or was not unconscious before her head hit the wall. There is also no way you can determine the type or force of the blow in that video. And, from a legal perspective, the law presumes that you intend the natural and probable consequences of your actions.

 

I have no idea why you want to choose to interpret the video as you are doing. However, what you are stating is clear evidence from the video - is not.

[FireChan]

I don't live in a black and white world, sorry I don't follow you. I can think of a million situations of domestic violence that vary. It isn't as simple as he hit her and the situation and facts don't matter at all. If she was in the elevator going at him and slapping him, thats one situation. If she takes a step to him, and he punches her out, that's another situation. Video evidence of the fact situation is absolutely new evidence (that is black and white)

 

A video is not confirmation of the facts, it itself provides new facts of the situation

 

So if she was slapping at him, and he knocked her out, you'd argue what? He shouldn't be judged as harshly?

[Deranged Rhino]

I have no idea why you want to choose to interpret the video as you are doing. However, what you are stating is clear evidence from the video - is not.

 

Because he clearly drafted Ray Rice too high in whatever fantasy league he's in and wants to find a way to justify it to himself.

[Mr. WEO]

Goodell saw the video before he suspended Rice. We knew that already.

 

15 other NFL players have been suspended for domestic violence in the past fewe years. Most got one game. Fewer got 2 games and one got 3 games.

 

It is likely that this is the only of the 15 caught on tape. In fact, the only reason this became a national debate is because of the first tape. The public hardly cared about all of the other women beat up by NFL players. So should Goodell now go back and add more time to all of the other active players who were suspended for this in the past?

[Numark3]

He clearly used force, and that is NOT acceptable. But it was NOT a knock out punch. She got knocked out because of him no doubt, but he did not hit her with the intent of knocking her out. There is a difference when ruling from an authoritative position. He will lose and get fried in courts of public opinion, and rightfully so. However, from a legal approach that the NFL had to take, 2 games was appropriate.

 

 

What an absolute joke of an opinion. No intent to knock her out? Intent is judged by an objective test, and any punch is no doubt an intent to knock out....

[Alphadawg7]

You have a future in politics, lots of double talk there but nothing of substance. You're basing your entire belief on Rice's intent -- something you cannot possibly know yet are pretending to know for a certainty.

 

Actually I am the only one basing my opinion on the visual facts of the matter. I am the only one that sees he slapped her, not straight Mike Tyson punched her. I am the only that sees her on one foot which is behind her torso at the moment of impact from the slap/shove. I am the only one who see that Rice did NOT wind up a punch and reacted to her charging him. I am the only one watching her slam her head into a steel bar on the way down and then see her head bounce on the ground again when she hits the floor as the CLEAR reason for the knock out.

 

Everyone else just has decided he went all Mike Tyson and tried to knock her out. Look, I don't want this to turn into something that looks I am defending him. He's a piece of crap and I can't stand him. I am presenting what the NFL sees, not the courts of class and public opinion. NFL is ruling from an authoritative position on the manner based on laws, rules, and standards.

 

There are no criminal charges...they still got married...she accepted partial blame for incidents leading up to this point...he has no prior history of violence...alcohol was a factor...she hit her head after an altercation. The NFL has to rule on those facts, not public opinion. Ravens themselves need to be responsible for making character decisions, and I fully support that action.

 

Because he clearly drafted Ray Rice too high in whatever fantasy league he's in and wants to find a way to justify it to himself.

 

I knew someone was going to reply with this childish response...I do not, and actually never have had Ray Rice on any fantasy team...but thanks for contributing

Edited September 8, 2014 by Alphadawg7

[billsfan1959]

Actually I am the only one basing my opinion on the visual facts of the matter. I am the only one that sees he slapped her, not straight Mike Tyson punched her. I am the only that sees her on one foot which is behind her torso at the moment of impact from the slap/shove. I am the only one who see that Rice did NOT wind up a punch and reacted to her charging him. I am the only one watching her slam her head into a steel bar on the way down and then see her head bounce on the ground again when she hits the floor as the CLEAR reason for the knock out.

 

Everyone else just has decided he went all Mike Tyson and tried to knock her out. Look, I don't want this to turn into something that looks I am defending him. He's a piece of crap and I can't stand him. I am presenting what the NFL sees, not the courts of class and public opinion. NFL is ruling from an authoritative position on the manner based on laws, rules, and standards.

 

There are no criminal charges...they still got married...she accepted partial blame for incidents leading up to this point...he has no prior history of violence...alcohol was a factor...she hit her head after an altercation. The NFL has to rule on those facts, not public opinion. Ravens themselves need to be responsible for making character decisions, and I fully support that action.

Perhaps the fact that you openly admit that you are THE ONLY ONE who sees the video in this way should tell you something...

[Numark3]

Actually I am the only one basing my opinion on the visual facts of the matter. I am the only one that sees he slapped her, not straight Mike Tyson punched her. I am the only that sees her on one foot which is behind her torso at the moment of impact from the slap/shove. I am the only one who see that Rice did NOT wind up a punch and reacted to her charging him. I am the only one watching her slam her head into a steel bar on the way down and then see her head bounce on the ground again when she hits the floor as the CLEAR reason for the knock out.

 

Everyone else just has decided he went all Mike Tyson and tried to knock her out. Look, I don't want this to turn into something that looks I am defending him. He's a piece of crap and I can't stand him. I am presenting what the NFL sees, not the courts of class and public opinion. NFL is ruling from an authoritative position on the manner based on laws, rules, and standards.

 

There are no criminal charges...they still got married...she accepted partial blame for incidents leading up to this point...he has no prior history of violence...alcohol was a factor...she hit her head after an altercation. The NFL has to rule on those facts, not public opinion. Ravens themselves need to be responsible for making character decisions, and I fully support that action.

 

 

 

I knew someone was going to reply with this childish response...I do not, and actually never have had Ray Rice on any fantasy team...but thanks for contributing

 

Laws, rule, and standards lol. I'm willing to bet you have no authority on any of those subject matters. You are talking about intent and laws, and you fail to realize that what he did absolutely qualifies as intent under any legal definition.

[bobobonators]

Actually, thats not speculation. You can see it clear as day in the video. There is no uppercut. She is on her one foot only which is behind her stance...add in the alcohol and any amount of force would take her footing away.

 

He clearly used force, and that is NOT acceptable. But it was NOT a knock out punch. She got knocked out because of him no doubt, but he did not hit her with the intent of knocking her out. There is a difference when ruling from an authoritative position. He will lose and get fried in courts of public opinion, and rightfully so. However, from a legal approach that the NFL had to take, 2 games was appropriate.

 

As far as the reaction, between being a celebrity, alcohol and shock, very plausible he just didn't know what to do and was freaking out and froze.

 

Its the Ravens that should rule from a character side, not the NFL, and take further action.

 

I like your posts regarding football and the Bills but man you're so far off base with your 2 posts on this page it's almost offensive.