C.Biscuit97 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Not sure I understand the basis for the sarcasm. Manuel has shown almost nothing (yet). Manziel and Bortles have obviously shown nothing yet. The Browns ended up with 3 players in the first round, and by a combination of GM draft pick trading skill and luck ended up with what I have to believe are the exact players they wanted, including getting what some if not most believe was the best QB in the class. And in a position of their greatest need. And if that wasn't enough, ended up with an additional 1st round pick next year in the process. No one knows how it will end up. But crowing about the Manuel pick last season seems premature at best. The point is that all year we had to hear the crap about the Bills reaching for EJ when there was this superior class of QBs. In a year where more teams need a QB, they slide like crazy. And the guy who got chosen high had similar stats and worse combine #s than EJ. And if the Browns were so sold on Johnny Football, it's flat out stupid to hope he would be there at 22. You don't risk passing on your franchise Qb because of Mel Kiper's draft chart. They lucked out and he has a lot to prove. So does EJ, but as I've been saying all offseason, this class of QBs was severely overrated. Whats BS? His best games were against the Patriots and Panthers the first 2 weeks of the season. He was average or below average in the games after that he actually played in, IMO. He was great against the Jets in awful weather with his 2 top wrs out. And after the 1st quarter, he light up a Jags team that finished the season pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Bills Fan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Manziel's brother is a crab fisherman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) And if the Browns were so sold on Johnny Football, it's flat out stupid to hope he would be there at 22. You don't risk passing on your franchise Qb because of Mel Kiper's draft chart. They lucked out and he has a lot to prove. There is always an element of luck involved when you play the game the way the Browns played it last night. The Bills did not gamble, they mortgaged next draft to make sure they got the player they wanted now. It's tough to argue with the player. The price however can be debated (and is in several threads). The Browns did gamble, and it paid off for them (at least to the extent that they seemed to have accomplished what they set out to do). I doubt their strategy hinged on Kiper's chart (or his hair ). But based on the number of moves they made in a fairly short period of time, it is pretty clear they had it well choreographed ahead of time. I guess it is fair to say that the Bills reached for Manuel while the Browns gambled on Manziel dropping like a rock. Both teams got what they wanted. Time will tell how it will work out for them both. Also, Manziel may have a lot to prove. But he was drafted at 21 was it? Manuel was drafted at 9 and was considered by some to be a reach. Who has the most to prove? Edited May 9, 2014 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I can't believe we reached for EJ with this amazing class of QBs.. Yeah, brilliant wit. A number of these QBs rate higher than Manuel did and what, one went before 16th. Yeah, great foresight and vision our front office has. Then they think that another WR added to the others that already underachieved because of that same QB will somehow cause that QB to improve. Whatever, ... this team makes its own demise perennially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Now I understand why C. Biscuit97 started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Mr Football is going to have the proverbial chip and he has talent, don't dismiss him just because 32 teams did one round. He could Russel Wilson the world and turn out to be Fran Tarkenton 2.0. He could also sh*t his pants in the middle of a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Fair enough...But none of them has played a down in the NFL yet...And EJ has only played 10 games...So it's not like this is over or anything... For what it's worth I feel EJ is every bit as good a prospect as the 3 that went last night...And I think the crap spewed this year by old curmudgeons like Charlie Casserly is ridiculous... This. My only concern with EJ's progress last year was the injury bug; otherwise, I saw a rookie who tended to not make the same mistakes he made during prior games - basically a kid who worked on correcting the correctable. I remember when the Steelers threw a lot of cover-2 at him that he neither game-planned for (as the Steelers had not run a lot of that prior), nor had he seen a lot of cover-2. He admittedly stunk up the field, the next team that tried it though, he knew where to go with the ball and where his best match-ups would be and he moved the chains. Progression-wise, that is what you want to see from a young QB - sans injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 IKR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 The point is that all year we had to hear the crap about the Bills reaching for EJ when there was this superior class of QBs. In a year where more teams need a QB, they slide like crazy. And the guy who got chosen high had similar stats and worse combine #s than EJ. And if the Browns were so sold on Johnny Football, it's flat out stupid to hope he would be there at 22. You don't risk passing on your franchise Qb because of Mel Kiper's draft chart. They lucked out and he has a lot to prove. So does EJ, but as I've been saying all offseason, this class of QBs was severely overrated. He was great against the Jets in awful weather with his 2 top wrs out. And after the 1st quarter, he light up a Jags team that finished the season pretty well. So the Browns are stupid for trading back and waiting for their franchise QB. But the Bills are geniuses when they did for Manuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Keep loading up on talent for the offense with the best G, RT, or TE as far as who is best on their board. If we can get an excellent TE in the 2nd and the other two spots in the third and 4 th, I wouldn't be upset. I also am ok with the best G, RT in the 2nd and 3rd is fine as well. We can always pick up Monday, Eric Winston or Tyson Clabo as a stop gap for one year at RT. They wouldn't cost that much and their veteran leadership would be fine. This just means next year we replace them with our 2nd or 3rd round. I'm good with the trade for Watkins. If he is the next Julio Jones or AJ Green, can we really argue the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Manziel seems like a cocky punk.... maybe that's wrong but that's how I see him He makes my skin crawl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I beleive the sarcasm is directed towards all the people, both on this board, and the national draft experts who last year were stating that this years QB class was going to be so great. Bridgewater was going number 1, may as well start up a suck for Luck Bridgewater campain. A year later, seemed QB's were the least valued overall position i nthe 1st round, certainly at the top. Bortles went high, but many are questioning it too. Same as all the people on this site claiming the Watkins trade was bad as if EJ fails, next years QB class is going to be great and now we have no 1st round pick. Well just as a year ago this years class was going to be great, we know as little about next years too. Not sure I understand the basis for the sarcasm. Manuel has shown almost nothing (yet). Manziel and Bortles have obviously shown nothing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 So the Browns are stupid for trading back and waiting for their franchise QB. But the Bills are geniuses when they did for Manuel? Despite what you and some others think, none of us have any idea how this Qbs will turn out. But to answer your question. The Bills traded down 8 spots to pick Manuel. The Browns traded down 18 spots to pick Johnny Football, in a draft where more teams (including the Cowboys rumors), need QBs. So if the Browns loved Manziel, it was very risky to let him sit out there for 18 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Lamest post-draft thread so far. OP on another crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Despite what you and some others think, none of us have any idea how this Qbs will turn out. But to answer your question. The Bills traded down 8 spots to pick Manuel. The Browns traded down 18 spots to pick Johnny Football, in a draft where more teams (including the Cowboys rumors), need QBs. So if the Browns loved Manziel, it was very risky to let him sit out there for 18 picks. It was risky. But so was the EJ trade back. And it worked out for them and us. I don't understand your point. 3 QB's in the first vs 1 in 2013. 1 went top 3. So where's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Lamest post-draft thread so far. OP on another crusade. Not that I don't think this is a lame thread, or anything, but, why do posters on these boards so often refer to a differing opinion as a "crusade?" That seems like merely dismissive rhetoric to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yeah, what looked like a strong draft class at QB now looks anything but. But time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Not that I don't think this is a lame thread, or anything, but, why do posters on these boards so often refer to a differing opinion as a "crusade?" That seems like merely dismissive rhetoric to me. It was meant to be dismissive. OP is again trying to shore up his (deep down) flagging confidence in the superiority of EJ by publicly dismissing this year's entire QB class befroe the second round of the draft even starts, let alone the season. They used to call this whistling past the graveyard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I have absolutely no desire to debate Manuel ant further until we see more out of him in the preseason. But, it's weird to tell me not to debate Manuel while qualifying Manziel as debatable, for the sake of this comparison. At any rate, I was really talking about how well the Browns traded draft spots. They got the players they wanted (that was your point about not debating Manuel-- the player the coaches want) and they have set themselves up for next years draft with a net gain of picks. We aren't learning anything more about Manuel until he completes a full training camp and plays in the regular season. Judging preseason action has been proven time and time again to be pretty pointless. My point about Cleveland is that you can make a decent argument they were swayed by the fans to draft Johnny Football. He is an extremely high-risk prospect -- some love him, some think he's the most overrated player they've seen. You say Cleveland "made out like a bandit" with the trade -- I think the guys in the Buffalo war room believe they just stole the best player in the draft. Who is right? We won't know for a couple of years. It's why I hate immediate post-draft analysis of who "won" and "lost." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 We aren't learning anything more about Manuel until he completes a full training camp and plays in the regular season. Judging preseason action has been proven time and time again to be pretty pointless. My point about Cleveland is that you can make a decent argument they were swayed by the fans to draft Johnny Football. He is an extremely high-risk prospect -- some love him, some think he's the most overrated player they've seen. You say Cleveland "made out like a bandit" with the trade -- I think the guys in the Buffalo war room believe they just stole the best player in the draft. Who is right? We won't know for a couple of years. It's why I hate immediate post-draft analysis of who "won" and "lost." I really try to look at these things in terms of current value. Yes, Buffalo got the man they wanted, and it cost them a substantial net loss of draft picks. Worth it? That is the unknown-- high risk/high return. Cleveland, on the other hand, got the man they wanted, with a net gain in draft picks. Hard not to see that as anything other than a good deal-- low risk/high return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Not that I don't think this is a lame thread, or anything, but, why do posters on these boards so often refer to a differing opinion as a "crusade?" That seems like merely dismissive rhetoric to me. Because it's his gimmick. He's the biggest troll on the board. He argues just to argue. I don't think he gets enough attention at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 We aren't learning anything more about Manuel until he completes a full training camp and plays in the regular season. Judging preseason action has been proven time and time again to be pretty pointless. My point about Cleveland is that you can make a decent argument they were swayed by the fans to draft Johnny Football. He is an extremely high-risk prospect -- some love him, some think he's the most overrated player they've seen. You say Cleveland "made out like a bandit" with the trade -- I think the guys in the Buffalo war room believe they just stole the best player in the draft. Who is right? We won't know for a couple of years. It's why I hate immediate post-draft analysis of who "won" and "lost." I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that there will be MUCH discourse regarding EJ's preseason performance come August. And, should you ever make it to Los Angeles, I will gladly buy you a beer at Buzby's (home of the Bill's Backers Club), if you are capable of refraining from participating in the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) 3 months ago this was supposed to be a really good QB draft but after the tape research, combine, pro days....it seems the NFL as a whole stepped back and had a new assessment. Bridgewater was once touted as the #1 goes at 32. Manziel was a pick seems to be an owner buckling to the wishes of the fans. Bortles is good but #3 good? Time will tell. EJ draft will be a reach or a bust after this season is over. We will know. Edited May 9, 2014 by Nitro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Wait a few weeks and all we'll start hearing is how the 2015 draft is going to be the best QB draft in years. The pundits say this year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Amazing class of QBs who are all falling down the draft board and havent played a down in the NFL yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It was meant to be dismissive. OP is again trying to shore up his (deep down) flagging confidence in the superiority of EJ by publicly dismissing this year's entire QB class befroe the second round of the draft even starts, let alone the season. They used to call this whistling past the graveyard... Based on what you said about Bortles earlier, you'd have to consider him a gigantic reach, and a far bigger one than some thought EJ was last year. As for Manziel and Bridgewater, they were taken in the latter part of the 1st round and bypassed by several QB needy teams, including their own, once. It's even questionable whether any of them will get a chance to play this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) 3 months ago this was supposed to be a really good QB draft but after the tape research, combine, pro days....it seems the NFL as a whole stepped back and had a new assessment. Bridgewater was once touted as the #1 goes at 32. Manziel was a pick seems to be an owner buckling to the wishes of the fans. Bortles is good but #3 good? Time will tell. EJ draft will be a reach or a bust after this season is over. We will know. Actually, Nitro, it was only the talking heads and other pundits that did the backtracking. They need to create and feed the hype machine that fills the coffers. It's a huge business. When that hype eventually meets up with the very real scouting and talent evaluations by professionals in the league, we typically see the fall back down to earth. The NFL simply offered their honest assessment once the evaluations were underway. Truth is, at least among the few scouts I've talked to, this QB class was on the level of the '11 class, minus a Cam Newton. A notch better than last year's overall, but no where near what the pundits were predicting. And a FAR cry from the Luck/Griffin class of '12. The early returns from these same few guys is that Bortles was a bit of a stretch and that he would have been had later on. But to a man, they respect the idea of getting your guy when you can. But he's not ready to start. GO BILLS!!! Edited May 9, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Actually, Nitro, it was only the talking heads and other pundits that did the backtracking. They need to create and feed the hype machine that fills the coffers. It's a huge business. When that hype eventually meets up with the very real scouting and talent evaluations by professionals in the league, we typically see the fall back down to earth. The NFL simply offered their honest assessment once the evaluations were underway. Truth is, at least among the few scouts I've talked to, this QB class was on the level of the '11 class, minus a Cam Newton. A notch better than last year's overall, but no where near what the pundits were predicting. And a FAR cry from the Luck/Griffin class of '12. The early returns from these same few guys is that Bortles was a bit of a stretch and that he would have been had later on. But to a man, they respect the idea of getting your guy when you can. But he's not ready to start. GO BILLS!!! Because it's his gimmick. He's the biggest troll on the board. He argues just to argue. I don't think he gets enough attention at home. You hear that Biscuit? K-9 just said you're wrong. See yaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 You hear that Biscuit? K-9 just said you're wrong. See yaaa Not sure what you're alluding to here. Why am I not surprised? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Not sure what you're alluding to here. Why am I not surprised? GO BILLS!!! C. Biscuit said this class isn't better than last season's. You said it was. You're one of the most knowledgeable posters on here, It sounds like you're right and he's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Manziel seems like a cocky punk.... maybe that's wrong but that's how I see him He makes my skin crawl I have the same opinion and I figured out why. Have you seen the movie ROB ROY? He looks like Tim Roth's Archibald Cunningham. A truly despicable, cocky little runt that made my skin crawl. I will never know him so in the absence of any real familiarity with him he becomes Archibald Cunningham in my mind. Maybe by the time the Bills play the Browns I'll have figured out how to post a Manziel/Roth picture for the look-a-like thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 C. Biscuit said this class isn't better than last season's. You said it was. You're one of the most knowledgeable posters on here, It sounds like you're right and he's wrong. "A notch better" isn't much to hang a hat on. Another way of putting it is this is one of the most over-rated QB classes, at least by the pundits and talking heads, that anyone can remember. Certainly wouldn't use a modicum of better to skewer C. Biscuit. None of this matters anyway. We won't know anything for a couple more years. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 K-9 I agree. This QB class was touted by the talking heads. Reality is harsh but true. There is several developmental types to be had today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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