OldTimer1960 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Are they scouting for a 34 or 43 defense? Does their qb need to be mobile? Big possession receivers at a premium or speedy guys? Zone or man corners? Without a coaching staff they don't really have a refined criteria was my point. There are a lot of players out there and even if he's not picking them personally their head coach should have a lot of say in working with the GM to define what it means to be a brown. It just doesn't seem efficient to say "find out anything about everybody and we will sort it out later (and in a shorter window than everyone else)" Getting the right guy is #1 but every day that guys job is getting harder. I don't disagree with you. I did say that in many organizations the coaches have input. That they don't have final say in every organization is true. FWIW, i understand and agree with your points about "what kind of player" are the scouts looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Marrone loves the word obviously doesn't he? Bills are striving for consistency t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I don't have a lot of time for detail. Nickell Robey - +1 Jerry Hughes - HUGE trade / pickup Manny Lawson - very good trade / pickup New (sort of) - Super Mario healthy all season, BIG +1 Was the emergence of Aaron Williams on Pettine? Was the return of Jim Leonhard on Pettine? Was the signing of Dan Carpenter on Pettine? Veteran D-Coordinators with specific systems built for the players they have, have nothing to do with the talent acquisition process. News to me. It's clear Aaron Williams is a different player now. That's coaching. A.W. even said that Pettine is the reason he improved so much. Who knows if Pettine had anything to do with the Robey signing. Even if he didn't, he recognized the talent and put him in a position to succeed on his defense. Same with Hughes. And Manny. And even Mario, seeing as he had a career year here and outperformed anything he did on Houston. Leonhard was a late pick up and very familiar with Pettine, that's all Pettine's system, acquiring that guy and getting production. Edited January 21, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It doesn't matter if Cleveland's new coach (be it Pettine or a guy still involved in preparing for a Superbowl) likes Manziel or not... it looks very much like the front office have decided they are going to trade the house to get up and take him regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Not necessarily, if they chose Pettine, he was in attendance at the Senior Bowl, except he is there on the Bills dime and not the Browns. I'm sure the Browns also have some employees down there too that can take notes for them for the new staff thats hired Hard to evaluate players when you don't know what systems you are going to run on either side of the ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I agree, but that's how it looks to be playing out. Mack doesn't look like he wants to stay in Cleveland and Banner doesn't look like he's going to shell out the cash to even make it interesting. It doesn't make sense to me either. Ward looks more amenable to staying and it looks like he will be re-signed or tagged. All of Mack's quotes show he wanted to stay in Cleveland and was happy having Chud as a coach. Nothing I could find since the firing, though. TJ Ward wanted to stay and finish what's been started, but again, before the firing. The players in that locker room have been a tight-knit team and stuck through all the coaching and front office turmoil for years now. Firing Chud may have broken the morale of that locker room and IMO if Mack and Ward exit whoever decides to coach has a nearly impossible task in healing that locker room and restoring faith in the front office. Mack and Ward would be worth keeping simply to restore some faith in the front office. If they leave, look out below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I also believe Haslam was solely behind Chud's firing and I predict Banner will move on within the next year, probably sometime after the draft. He had a great plan right up until they fired Chud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Veteran D-Coordinators with specific systems built for the players they have, have nothing to do with the talent acquisition process. News to me. It's clear Aaron Williams is a different player now. That's coaching. A.W. even said that Pettine is the reason he improved so much. Who knows if Pettine had anything to do with the Robey signing. Even if he didn't, he recognized the talent and put him in a position to succeed on his defense. Same with Hughes. And Manny. And even Mario, seeing as he had a career year here and outperformed anything he did on Houston. Leonhard was a late pick up and very familiar with Pettine, that's all Pettine's system, acquiring that guy and getting production. I never said Pettine wasn't beneficial. I did say he was no help getting Buffalo to defeat the Putz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 "Pettine's departure would set back Bills" Really??!!? You dont say!!!!! CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) The Bills did a great job with sacks and INTs this year. The Bills sucked, mightily, against the run this year. The Bills' D was responsible for multiple blown leads/subsequent losses this year. I think Pettine is responsible for the uptick in QB pressure and takeaways ... and I think that's great. However ... I also think that there are a lot of defensive coordinators capable of increasing a couple areas whilst leaving other areas crappy. It's like working with your child on math, and only math, every night after school. The child may end up with a very impressive average in math ... but can't write a complete sentence. I do think Pettine is a great DC and I do think he is capable of building a top 10, if not top 5, defense in Buffalo in pretty quick order. But I also believe it can be done by someone else. And perhaps that someone else will figure out what Pettine failed to ... how to stop the other team from scoring more points than the Bills. I'd love for Pettine to tell the Browns to pack salt. But his departure would not mean imminent sucktitude. Edited January 21, 2014 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The Bills did a great job with sacks and INTs last year. The Bills sucked, mightily, against the run last year. The Bills' D was responsible for multiple blown leads/subsequent losses last year. I think Pettine is responsible for the uptick in QB pressure and takeaways ... and I think that's great. However ... I also think that there are a lot of defensive coordinators capable of increasing a couple areas whilst leaving other areas crappy. It's like working with your child on math, and only math, every night after school. The child may end up with a very impressive average in math ... but can't write a complete sentence. I do think Pettine is a great DC and I do think he is capable of building a top 10, if not top 5, defense in Buffalo in pretty quick order. But I also believe it can be done by someone else. And perhaps that someone else will figure out what Pettine failed to ... how to stop the other team from scoring more points than the Bills. I'd love for Pettine to tell the Browns to pack salt. But his departure would not mean imminent sucktitude. Agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The Bills did a great job with sacks and INTs last year. The Bills sucked, mightily, against the run last year. The Bills' D was responsible for multiple blown leads/subsequent losses last year. I think Pettine is responsible for the uptick in QB pressure and takeaways ... and I think that's great. However ... I also think that there are a lot of defensive coordinators capable of increasing a couple areas whilst leaving other areas crappy. It's like working with your child on math, and only math, every night after school. The child may end up with a very impressive average in math ... but can't write a complete sentence. I do think Pettine is a great DC and I do think he is capable of building a top 10, if not top 5, defense in Buffalo in pretty quick order. But I also believe it can be done by someone else. And perhaps that someone else will figure out what Pettine failed to ... how to stop the other team from scoring more points than the Bills. I'd love for Pettine to tell the Browns to pack salt. But his departure would not mean imminent sucktitude. last year meaning before Pettine? wasn't the D also known for multiple blown leads/subsequent losses this season? wasn't the D also known to suck mightily, against the run this season? again, I like what improved, but more needs to be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 last year meaning before Pettine? wasn't the D also known for multiple blown leads/subsequent losses this season? wasn't the D also known to suck mightily, against the run this season? again, I like what improved, but more needs to be done! Sorry ... I meant this season. I can see how that's confusing and I'm gonna fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I thought I read he really wanted to stay .... I think they should pay him too. Chris Brown @ChrisBrownBills 8m Marrone on Pettine situation http://wp.me/plmrg-9yd Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine remains in contention for the vacant Cleveland Browns head coaching vacancy after interviewing with the AFC North club last week. There are reports he will interview a second time with Cleveland. Bills head coach Doug Marrone commented on how the situation may impact his team if things work out for Pettine in Cleveland. “Obviously Mike has done a great job even prior to coming to Buffalo and obviously did a great job for us this year,” Marrone told Buffalobills.com. “We’re in a profession where people are going to recognize that. We’re very happy for Mike.” “Obviously he’s in a process that Cleveland controls right now. They’re getting ready to make decisions and we’re there to support Mike and help him and if it goes well and he has the opportunity to go then Doug (Whaley), myself and Russ (Brandon) have already met and we’re ready to do what we have to do for our organization.” I think it was more a matter of Mack saying the correct things publicly. Privately I hear he is ready to move on. And why wouldn't he want to bail on that trainwreck? I hear that Pettine really impressed in his interview. He wasn't expected to make it to the next round of interviews, but really shined and put himself squarely in the mix for the job. It would be a big loss for the Bills. Quinn did very well, too. Gase is still the wildcard. I can see him using the Browns to get a raise and set himself up for a better job in the next year or two. Or maybe he's pushing off interviews because of Manning. I can see Manning retiring if he wins it all this year or coming back to try again if not. Why not move on at the same time as Manning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Chris Brown @ChrisBrownBills 2m Bills stuck with Browns head coach timetable http://wp.me/plmrg-9yf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Chris Brown @ChrisBrownBills 2m Bills stuck with Browns head coach timetable http://wp.me/plmrg-9yf If the Browns really wanted Pettine, they would have had the 2nd intvw and an offer on the table already. Not because there is competition from other teams, but so he could get started with getting his staff in place and to ensure they are not completely behind the 8-ball with their personnel decisions and the upcoming draft. The issue is, IMO, that he is not their first, second or third choice but they know that there is a chance they don't get those guys. It is also possible that he didn't "blow them away" and impress them, but they need to say that to the media because it will help with the PR if indeed they need to hire him. Again, this is going to look the same as it did hiring Chud. He was a name no other team was going after, they hired him, and fired him after a year and said publically they made bad hiring decision. But they are dragging this out to try to get one of the other guys. And they are looking really bad in the process. The same thing is happening with the GM search in Miami. Ineptness from the very top of these organizations. I think it was more a matter of Mack saying the correct things publicly. Privately I hear he is ready to move on. And why wouldn't he want to bail on that trainwreck? I hear that Pettine really impressed in his interview. He wasn't expected to make it to the next round of interviews, but really shined and put himself squarely in the mix for the job. It would be a big loss for the Bills. Quinn did very well, too. Gase is still the wildcard. I can see him using the Browns to get a raise and set himself up for a better job in the next year or two. Or maybe he's pushing off interviews because of Manning. I can see Manning retiring if he wins it all this year or coming back to try again if not. Why not move on at the same time as Manning? Makes sense to leave once he leaves. Reportedly, it is Manning himself who is helping Haslam with getting a meeting with Gase. He had Jimmy Rebate are friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) If the Browns really wanted Pettine, they would have had the 2nd intvw and an offer on the table already. Not because there is competition from other teams, but so he could get started with getting his staff in place and to ensure they are not completely behind the 8-ball with their personnel decisions and the upcoming draft. The issue is, IMO, that he is not their first, second or third choice but they know that there is a chance they don't get those guys. It is also possible that he didn't "blow them away" and impress them, but they need to say that to the media because it will help with the PR if indeed they need to hire him. Again, this is going to look the same as it did hiring Chud. He was a name no other team was going after, they hired him, and fired him after a year and said publically they made bad hiring decision. But they are dragging this out to try to get one of the other guys. And they are looking really bad in the process. The same thing is happening with the GM search in Miami. Ineptness from the very top of these organizations. thats still my take. if he was number 1, he couldve been hired last week. but hes down the list for sure. how far, and how wide the gap - who knows. yesterday the browns may have spent a lot of time discussing what to do now that the hawks and broncos won (though youd think those contingency plans wouldve been in place for atleast a week) and an offer may be extended today, but if we havent heard anything by this evening/tomorrow... it seems that Pettine is still at best 2nd on the list, if not lower and the gap is wide enough that they will be waiting the 2 weeks. i suspect the pulling him in for round two may have had less to do with his interview and more to do with keeping the gears moving while the wait continues. Edited January 21, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Hard to evaluate players when you don't know what systems you are going to run on either side of the ball... Not reallyI would think that almost any coach in the league has an idea of the basic style of system his team would run, and hires the coordinators accordingly. Do people really think that Pettine has no idea who he would hire as his coordinators or what kind of offence or defence he would try and implement if he got a Head Coaching job? It would take less then an afternoon for just about anyone who understands football to take a look at any teams roster and be able to get an idea of what kind of strengths and weaknesses the team currently has and get an idea of what they could do with the team. Throw in the fact that pettine has inside knowledge of the league and a better understanding of the game then most arm chair fantasy GMs also so it should not take him long to get a basic understanding of what would be best for him if he got the HC job. The Browns still have a scouting staff and employees who attend games like the Senior Bowl and will be doing their evaluations of all the players also. Plus they have the ability to obtain other scouting reports and videos of the players that might interest them. It isn't like if they don't have a guy there looking at a certain player, they can't get info on them. The only disadvantage that the browns have right now is that the longer they wait, the smaller the list gets of potential assistants and choices for co-ordinators available to them as the rest of the teams fill their staffs and make choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The situation in Cleveland--from 30,000 feet--is pretty toxic right now. http://deadspin.com/the-browns-have-essentially-no-coaching-staff-right-now-1505420687 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The comments are gold. My favorite, and pretty much sums up what every Browns fan here says daily: 35 Josh F'ing McDaniels turns you down. Your star player is one bong hit away from being banned for a year. You're actually acting as if Norv Turner's leaving is a loss- because it is. You 1st Round QB of the future is over 30 & he was the better of your two 1st Rd picks that year. Your owner is looking at doing prison time for fraud. Greg Schiano is looking mighty attractive right now. The NFL promised Cleveland a new NFL team after Modell fled to Baltimore almost 20 years ago. When are they going to deliver on that promise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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