OCinBuffalo Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Then Marrone, in order to maintain public inegrity, would need to say something along those lines. It wouldn't have to be a public flogging of Crossman or excoriating his efforts to the media. It could simply be: "We've reviewed all of the film and spoken to our Coordinators and coaches and there are a few key areas that need to improve and I believe with this Off-Season we will. First, on STs we gave up too many return yards, missed too many blocks, didn't stay in our assigned lanes, and it cost us a few games and some key field position. But working with Danny, I know with another year and continued coaching this will turn around. We all know what's at stake." Boom...done....doesn't need to do more than recognize what every other fan in Buffalo sees: a statistically significant regression in the ST's performance and then indicate what will be done to remedy that fact. And in case you're about to argue that he doesn't "owe" us an explanation, again it was Marrone's words that said he knows how imortant the BILLS are to Western NY and its fans. If so...provide some idea as to how "accountability" is defined and how it relates directly to STs. My personal review, and the process involved, of my group is my business. Not other employees, not my customer's, not my board's. I have plenty of public integrity, and I don't need to allow anyone into my business to maintain it. Marrone's discussions and reviews with his staff...isn't your, or my, business either. Simple as that. Why? Because Marrone doesn't work for us. He works for Doug Whaley. If Doug Whaley wants to understand the process...that's Doug Whaley's prerogative. Consider the chaos if things weren't this way. Every small decision scrutinized by clowns, who will never, ever, ever posses the acumen to actually make these decisions properly? No. Nobody would ever sign up for that job. And even if they did, there'd be no way to do it. i dont know if lazy is the word here. we all have blind spots in our judgement. its part of being human. in this case, he hired a best friend to work for him. theres a good chance that he is misjudging the situation simply by human nature to look favorably on those we like, not lack of effort. If I hire a friend...the ONLY course of action is MORE effort, for both of us, to ensure that the friendship isn't coloring things. That may stress the friendship, but, this is work, and work always comes first(in my business. I recognize this isn't true elsewhere.) Since we advise businesses(in addition to other things we do), we encounter "resistance to change" all the time. 95% of the time? We find "resistance" = "I am ignorant about the change, therefore I resist it. I am ignorant because instead of constantly improving, I've been lazy for the last X years"....hence the reason we've been called in to advise with "new" ideas. No. Lazy is absolutely the right word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 the pawns are always sacrificed in the game of accountability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think we need someone that knows more about "fits" my wife knows a great deal about fits.... I throw them all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Look for "Samson Brown", "Jason Vrable" and "Greg Adkins" to feel the sharp blade of accountability next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Then Marrone, in order to maintain public inegrity, would need to say something along those lines. It wouldn't have to be a public flogging of Crossman or excoriating his efforts to the media. It could simply be: "We've reviewed all of the film and spoken to our Coordinators and coaches and there are a few key areas that need to improve and I believe with this Off-Season we will. First, on STs we gave up too many return yards, missed too many blocks, didn't stay in our assigned lanes, and it cost us a few games and some key field position. But working with Danny, I know with another year and continued coaching this will turn around. We all know what's at stake." Boom...done....doesn't need to do more than recognize what every other fan in Buffalo sees: a statistically significant regression in the ST's performance and then indicate what will be done to remedy that fact. And in case you're about to argue that he doesn't "owe" us an explanation, again it was Marrone's words that said he knows how important the BILLS are to Western NY and its fans. If so...provide some idea as to how "accountability" is defined and how it relates directly to STs. This is fair. But he kind of did this already. Marrone basically said that ST were bad because he didn't have the players, and he's going to get his "core" players. So, he is placing the blame on the players, not the coaches. Not firing Crossman is entirely consistent with his "accountability" sermons. it would make no sense to fire Crossman if he thought the problem was the players, not the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I hope Pat Morris is next. I said he was a bad hire due to his prior lines being viewed as having talent but poorly coached. Some took me to task for this position. Marrone is reviewing the team and making the needed changes. One can hope his buddy Crossman is asked to step aside. The evolution of the team and its coach goes hand in hand. Edited January 14, 2014 by Nitro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Look I don't have a problem with this firing because there were obvious problems that need to be fixed. I posted the following in another thread. Now I don't know what sources Pat Moran has inside the Bills Org but it is not far fetched and reason why I was disappointed with the way Marrone has handled things. Hilliard wasn't one of Marrone's "guys" and Crossman was. The reasons made for Crossman was that there wasn't enough special team guys. If you go by that reasoning seems Hilliard and Driesbach got the short end of the stick. Hilliard was working with only 1 proven receiver. Driesbach had a below average LB core with a rookie who exceeded everyone's expectations. In the end it doesn't matter it is on Marrone to get things fixed or he will be the one getting his pink slip. http://www.buffalosportsdaily.com/friday-bills-thoughts-notes/ Edited January 14, 2014 by billieve420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Bring in someone who understands how to coach gap control.....also need a stout and disciplined run defender to pair with Kiko on first and second downs to allow Kiko to create even more plays. Someone has to stay home and fill holes while Kiko runs around like his hair is on fire... LoL .Great post. And I agree . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 One of the ways of judging anyone's likely performance is the record of past performances. In Crossman's case, his record is one of failure, in improving performance, or at least maintaining the level it was at before he took over. It seems like even a cursory review of that record would raise red flags with employers, and should have done so with Marrone. I have no idea why he went ahead and hired him with his track record, but if it was out of friendship, then it was foolish. And now, having had a year in which Crossman yet again ground down a Special Teams - further evidence that his track record is no fluke - it makes no sense to keep him on staff. As someone else posted, had his record included several years of high level play and a few of low performance, a case could be made to give him another year. But that's not Crossman's history, not even close. His is a record of incessant failure wherever he's gone, one which he has continued in Buffalo. It makes no sense to me that Hilliard and Driesbach were shown the door so rapidly for their perceived failures (no mention so far of needing to draft "more core" receivers or linebackers in their case) while Crossman is seemingly given a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think we need someone that knows more about "fits" I do !! Starting QB for the Bills for a couple years .Smart Kid , left last season . Good guy . I was a fan of sorts . Didn't work out though. Reminds me of Big Daddy Lipscomb's deathless treatise on defense: "You keep picking up guys and throwing them away until you find the guy with the ball. Him you keep." Excellent quote I need to remember it ! Crossman must feel like the last teen at Camp Crystal Lake.... Ha ! but probably know his situation by now. we dont though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 There is a Crossman thread. Please post comments about him over there. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/165042-crossman-retained/ This one is for Driesbach. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovethebills Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 My guess is that he was not a "Pettine guy". This is normal IMO for a first year coaching staff - you bring a bunch of alpha male coaches together for the first time some of them get along and others not so much. Driesbach and Pettine both coached at CB West high school in Doylestown, PA and both are graduates of the same high school and coached together previously. Seems very strange, maybe Marrone is forcing this and cutting ties with Pettine's ILB coach that he recommended, I'm sure. Then again maybe Pettine didn't think Chuck was up to the task...Hmmmm interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Then Marrone, in order to maintain public inegrity, would need to say something along those lines. It wouldn't have to be a public flogging of Crossman or excoriating his efforts to the media. It could simply be: "We've reviewed all of the film and spoken to our Coordinators and coaches and there are a few key areas that need to improve and I believe with this Off-Season we will. First, on STs we gave up too many return yards, missed too many blocks, didn't stay in our assigned lanes, and it cost us a few games and some key field position. But working with Danny, I know with another year and continued coaching this will turn around. We all know what's at stake." Boom...done....doesn't need to do more than recognize what every other fan in Buffalo sees: a statistically significant regression in the ST's performance and then indicate what will be done to remedy that fact. And in case you're about to argue that he doesn't "owe" us an explanation, again it was Marrone's words that said he knows how important the BILLS are to Western NY and its fans. If so...provide some idea as to how "accountability" is defined and how it relates directly to STs. Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team. On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting... '“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”' While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either. Edited January 14, 2014 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team. On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting... '“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”' While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either. No kidding. As if Bellicheat or Tomlin or Harbaugh cared one iota what the fans thought of their decision making process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Shows that Marrone is a no nonsense guy; I think that all of us were just waiting for Dreisbach to be fired and he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team. On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting... '“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”' While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either. Wow, Weaver just begging to be held accountable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 No kidding. As if Bellicheat or Tomlin or Harbaugh cared one iota what the fans thought of their decision making process. I'm sure that Greg Schiano also didn't care about what the fans thought. Why are you comparing Marrone to Belichick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm sure that Greg Schiano also didn't care about what the fans thought. Why are you comparing Marrone to Belichick? Compare him to any coach you want. NO coach does what is being asked here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 They ae clearly just making an opening to bring on wanstedt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Guess he is the fall guy for the run defense and the bad fills we saw quite a few times Like Ike...some of these new assistant coaches gotta learn how to brown nose... like some others on that staff! Cronyism, it worked out so well for Chan. Edited January 14, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 WOW this coaching staff has really got it together they fire a guy that has helped make a very average D in one year to a well above average D . Yet they keep guys like Crossman around that made us go from a higher position in the NFL rankings the year prior to a lower one this season & make excuses for him ??? I hope there is a method to their madness !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 WOW this coaching staff has really got it together they fire a guy that has helped make a very average D in one year to a well above average D . Yet they keep guys like Crossman around that made us go from a higher position in the NFL rankings the year prior to a lower one this season & make excuses for him ??? I hope there is a method to their madness !!! You're assuming the Defense couldn't have been better without Driesbach. How do you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 WOW this coaching staff has really got it together they fire a guy that has helped make a very average D in one year to a well above average D . Yet they keep guys like Crossman around that made us go from a higher position in the NFL rankings the year prior to a lower one this season & make excuses for him ??? I hope there is a method to their madness !!! But the issue was the Run Defense, which I don't know for certain and don't claim to be an expert - seemed like there were quite a few missed assignments and issues with LBs staying in their gaps. But, who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Driesbach is taking the fall for all the times Kiko guessed wrong on which gap to attack, leaving no one in the middle of the field to stop gash runs by the other team. The Bills have one good LB, Kiko, and one OK LB, Lawson. No other real talent. (Hughes is a pass rusher, not a LB.) I'm thinking the Bills take a LB in the 1st round and sign a FA LB. That plus two guards and they'll be in business. Clearly we don't know everything that is going on at OBD, but for Greggo Marrone to excuse Crossman for a lack of personnel and to fire this guy seems odd. Kiko was very good but it can be argued he was playing out of position. Maybe Greggo Marrone thinks if properly coached Bradham and Moats should be Bowman and Willis. It is his prerogative but it's not like this guy could have taken a WR, TE, OL, or DB and used them as LBs.....you know, like a special teams guy could do with his unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 My personal review, and the process involved, of my group is my business. Not other employees, not my customer's, not my board's. I have plenty of public integrity, and I don't need to allow anyone into my business to maintain it. Marrone's discussions and reviews with his staff...isn't your, or my, business either. Simple as that. Why? Because Marrone doesn't work for us. He works for Doug Whaley. If Doug Whaley wants to understand the process...that's Doug Whaley's prerogative. Consider the chaos if things weren't this way. Every small decision scrutinized by clowns, who will never, ever, ever posses the acumen to actually make these decisions properly? No. Nobody would ever sign up for that job. And even if they did, there'd be no way to do it. If I hire a friend...the ONLY course of action is MORE effort, for both of us, to ensure that the friendship isn't coloring things. That may stress the friendship, but, this is work, and work always comes first(in my business. I recognize this isn't true elsewhere.) Since we advise businesses(in addition to other things we do), we encounter "resistance to change" all the time. 95% of the time? We find "resistance" = "I am ignorant about the change, therefore I resist it. I am ignorant because instead of constantly improving, I've been lazy for the last X years"....hence the reason we've been called in to advise with "new" ideas. No. Lazy is absolutely the right word. The problem with your analogy is that you own / operate a private business where you provide goods or services to the public and the public's demand for those goods or services will let you know if you're doing well or if changes need to be made so that when they are, the public is only concerned about the service or goods you're providing, not how it's getting done. But with an NFL team, the fans and the media are all part in parcel of the same general community which is the venue for which the NFL team serves. Furthermore, the NFL can fine a player for NOT talking to the media, let alone a coach, thereby implying that meeting and discussing the team issues or business is part of what the NFL requires. Moreover, I'm not doing anything other than taking to task what Marrone's own words were. I'm asking him to maintain integrity by doing what he said he would do...and maybe in his opinion he has...I disagree when it comes to Crossman, a true liability, and that means his credibility with me has taken a hit. Now, I appreciate his accountability speeches a bit more with the firing of Hilliard and Dreisbach, but Crossman was the clear cut answer to accountability on a team that went from top ten to almost the very last place in the NFL, players or not - coaching played a big role. This is fair. But he kind of did this already. Marrone basically said that ST were bad because he didn't have the players, and he's going to get his "core" players. So, he is placing the blame on the players, not the coaches. Not firing Crossman is entirely consistent with his "accountability" sermons. it would make no sense to fire Crossman if he thought the problem was the players, not the coach. And if Marrone truly believes it all or mostly falls on the players, that's fine...but I don't think he can make a strong and prolonged argument for that if, not saying he should have to, just IF he was forced to answer direct questions about how the STs unit performed. Not just overall as in "obviously, we need to get better" kind of stuff. Just IMO This is fair. But he kind of did this already. Marrone basically said that ST were bad because he didn't have the players, and he's going to get his "core" players. So, he is placing the blame on the players, not the coaches. Not firing Crossman is entirely consistent with his "accountability" sermons. it would make no sense to fire Crossman if he thought the problem was the players, not the coach. And if Marrone truly believes it all or mostly falls on the players, that's fine...but I don't think he can make a strong and prolonged argument for that if, not saying he should have to, just IF he was forced to answer direct questions about how the STs unit performed. Not just overall as in "obviously, we need to get better" kind of stuff. Just IMO Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team. On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting... '“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”' While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either. Again, I'm not saying I don't like Marrone or that every little thing he says should be made public. However, it is hard to buy-in to his credibility and therefore truly get behind him and by default the team when he makes statements he doesn't fully uphold by his actions....again, IMO. That to me is why he needs to maintain public integrity, to continue to have us as the fans and even the media and those covering his pressers, to actually believe what he is saying or call him on it. Even if it's something to the effect, "Hey, guys, I can't get into how we're going to handle this, but I will say it will get taken care of". I may not like his answer, but I would just otherwise remain silent....but please don't stand at the podium and say you're going to do something, and then not do it. Dreisbach's firing is another step toward credibility but the STs issue isn't going away, UNTIL they get better which they can't do until next season...so we're back to where we started. Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team. On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting... '“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”' While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either. Again, I'm not saying I don't like Marrone or that every little thing he says should be made public. However, it is hard to buy-in to his credibility and therefore truly get behind him and by default the team when he makes statements he doesn't fully uphold by his actions....again, IMO. That to me is why he needs to maintain public integrity, to continue to have us as the fans and even the media and those covering his pressers, to actually believe what he is saying or call him on it. Even if it's something to the effect, "Hey, guys, I can't get into how we're going to handle this, but I will say it will get taken care of". I may not like his answer, but I would just otherwise remain silent....but please don't stand at the podium and say you're going to do something, and then not do it. Dreisbach's firing is another step toward credibility but the STs issue isn't going away, UNTIL they get better which they can't do until next season...so we're back to where we started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Compare him to any coach you want. NO coach does what is being asked here. No coach does that directly, but almost every coach is affected by public opinion indirectly. If there is increased outcry against a coach and his actions, the job of selling tickets gets a little harder for the marketer in chief. And you can bet the president will have a talk with the coach to address the fans' concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 No kidding. As if Bellicheat or Tomlin or Harbaugh cared one iota what the fans thought of their decision making process. Nor should they...I don't want my head coach thinking: "hmmm, what will fans say if I do this?" Compare him to any coach you want. NO coach does what is being asked here. Yep. No coach does that directly, but almost every coach is affected by public opinion indirectly. If there is increased outcry against a coach and his actions, the job of selling tickets gets a little harder for the marketer in chief. And you can bet the president will have a talk with the coach to address the fans' concerns. GG, you know I value your opinions as a good poster, so please don't take this as anything other than my opinion... If fans are basing their decisions to not buy Bills' tickets on the status of a specific position coach or what the head coach says publicly about it, then they very likely weren't going to buy them regardless, and the issue at hand is just the scapegoat for their frustration. You can trust that Marrone will say plenty publicly about the team; some of it will be authentic, and some of it will be coachspeak....just like every other coach in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Dave Wannstedt is available, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Given it's been 15 years and counting since the Bills made the playoffs, fans are entitled to be skeptical of this franchise, in fact, it's shocking to every NFL fan outside Buffalo that Bills fans aren't more skeptical --- with Marrone/Whaley both being new (Whaley not so much, but let's give him that benefit of the doubt), fans are looking for signs and clues that this tandem will produce a winning team --- the team went 6-10, so it's even more important to try and peel back the onion to understand whether Marrone is or will be a top notch HC, able to compete with the likes of Belicheat and others of his ilk --- we are trying to evaluate EVERY move Whaley makes to see if he has an eye for talent, takes calculated risks and can match the skills of guys like Ozzie Newsome ---- SO, to make a long post a bit longer, when the Bills fire an assistant coach (LB & WR) and don't fire another assistant (ST), it matters --- EVERY move matters these first 12-18 months until we know based on what happens on-the-field whether this tandem will be successful --- it's not only RIGHT to criticize and critique these moves, it's the LEAST we can do as fans to try and understand what we have --- after all, this franchise is on HC #6 since the last playoffs --- unfortunately, we've earned the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 GG, you know I value your opinions as a good poster, so please don't take this as anything other than my opinion... If fans are basing their decisions to not buy Bills' tickets on the status of a specific position coach or what the head coach says publicly about it, then they very likely weren't going to buy them regardless, and the issue at hand is just the scapegoat for their frustration. You can trust that Marrone will say plenty publicly about the team; some of it will be authentic, and some of it will be coachspeak....just like every other coach in the NFL. One of Levy's most overused phrases is actually incorrect. Organizations that do not win, will inevitably bend to the will of the fans. Fans will most certainly not stop Bills buying tickets & merchandise if Crossman is back as ST coach next year. But Marrone's actions will bear a lot more scrutiny if the masses feel that he made a major mistake. It's the culmination of these little things that usually doom a coaching staff. Not one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Given it's been 15 years and counting since the Bills made the playoffs, fans are entitled to be skeptical of this franchise, in fact, it's shocking to every NFL fan outside Buffalo that Bills fans aren't more skeptical --- with Marrone/Whaley both being new (Whaley not so much, but let's give him that benefit of the doubt), fans are looking for signs and clues that this tandem will produce a winning team --- the team went 6-10, so it's even more important to try and peel back the onion to understand whether Marrone is or will be a top notch HC, able to compete with the likes of Belicheat and others of his ilk --- we are trying to evaluate EVERY move Whaley makes to see if he has an eye for talent, takes calculated risks and can match the skills of guys like Ozzie Newsome ---- SO, to make a long post a bit longer, when the Bills fire an assistant coach (LB & WR) and don't fire another assistant (ST), it matters --- EVERY move matters these first 12-18 months until we know based on what happens on-the-field whether this tandem will be successful --- it's not only RIGHT to criticize and critique these moves, it's the LEAST we can do as fans to try and understand what we have --- after all, this franchise is on HC #6 since the last playoffs --- unfortunately, we've earned the right I'd assert that it's "fair" to criticize, not "right". To say it's "right" is to say that someone else is "wrong" for not criticizing or taking a wait-and-see approach. Similarly, fans can try to understand what we have as a coach without criticizing; they don't have to go hand-in-hand. In fact, many of us (most, I'd say) that are taking the wait-and-see approach are doing exactly that. One of Levy's most overused phrases is actually incorrect. Organizations that do not win, will inevitably bend to the will of the fans. Fans will most certainly not stop Bills buying tickets & merchandise if Crossman is back as ST coach next year. But Marrone's actions will bear a lot more scrutiny if the masses feel that he made a major mistake. It's the culmination of these little things that usually doom a coaching staff. Not one thing. Yes, this was the point I was getting at. If the team doesn't win, then that's what will drive the fans to outrage...things like position coaches and 1st down play calls will be window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'd assert that it's "fair" to criticize, not "right". To say it's "right" is to say that someone else is "wrong" for not criticizing or taking a wait-and-see approach. Similarly, fans can try to understand what we have as a coach without criticizing; they don't have to go hand-in-hand. In fact, many of us (most, I'd say) that are taking the wait-and-see approach are doing exactly that. Agree -- I don't mean that fans should criticize, if they are comfortable with the decisions / direction and chose to agree, that's cool --- if they want to take a wait and see approach, that's also cool --- but, if they want to criticize, critique or complain, that is cool as well --- my main point was that this franchise has performed so poorly for so long, it's easier to understand if most fall in the last category --- Marrone mentions it often that he understands and feels the level of frustration --- that's good that he does --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 After reading this article, I feel bad for Driesbach. The guy loved it here, and thought that the staff loved him. One would think that there would have to be some kind of warning sign before firing a guy--but maybe that's not how it works in the NFL. http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/news/communities/doylestown/cb-west-grad-driesbach-stunned-by-bills-firing/article_8af7a87f-8e39-53c3-b0f9-2afd65313258.html?two-bills-drive Driesbach raved about his Buffalo experience, calling it “one of the best years of my life.” “The organization was absolutely fabulous,” Driesbach said. “That's why it's so crazy. It was a great experience. I was treated wonderfully by everybody in that building, then this bombshell fell.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) I'm starting to grow disheartened with the way Marrone is doing things. He keeps his buddy Crossman, and resigns Moorman (Yes, more of a GM thing but he must have a say)...Two of the worst at their duties last year. He cuts Driesbach, which on the surface certainly seems reasonable, but it screams of scapegoat to me. Certainly LB play was a big part in the poor run defense this year, but Pettine and Marrone still need to be first and foremost in tackling those issues. What bothers me most is that Driesbach said Marrone always agreed with everything he said, so if he was the problem why didn't Marrone step in? When Marrone took over he specifically said that he wasn't going to just let his coordinators do the work, and that he would be involved in all 3 aspects of the game. If he ignored one of the bigger problems for the Bills all year, that's concerning. If the Bills go out and hire a highly respected coach to replace him, it may soften my tune, but I'm skeptical. Edited January 14, 2014 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Driesbach was out of football last season after five seasons at Rice. and i do know Driesbach (defensive coordinator), Pettine (graduate assistant) and Doug Whaley (player) were all together at the same time at Pitt from 1993-94. Pettine, in fact, has spoken highly of Driesbach. so, this move comes as a bit of a surprise. jw JW Wish that Marrone didn't show favoritism to Crossman and relieved him of his duties as well. It seems that won't happen and I believe his credibility will suffer for it. It already has with a lot of us here. LV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Chris Brown @ChrisBrownBills1m #Bills relieve ILBs coach Chuck Dreisbach of his duties. 2nd coach moved off Marrone's staff since season's end. And yet Crossman is retained Relieved of duties? Is that kind of like getting fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Agree -- I don't mean that fans should criticize, if they are comfortable with the decisions / direction and chose to agree, that's cool --- if they want to take a wait and see approach, that's also cool --- but, if they want to criticize, critique or complain, that is cool as well --- my main point was that this franchise has performed so poorly for so long, it's easier to understand if most fall in the last category --- Marrone mentions it often that he understands and feels the level of frustration --- that's good that he does --- Yes, I agree with all of that. I'm starting to grow disheartened with the way Marrone is doing things. He keeps his buddy Crossman, and resigns Moorman (Yes, more of a GM thing but he must have a say)...Two of the worst at their duties last year. He cuts Driesbach, which on the surface certainly seems reasonable, but it screams of scapegoat to me. Certainly LB play was a big part in the poor run defense this year, but Pettine and Marrone still need to be first and foremost in tackling those issues. What bothers me most is that Driesbach said Marrone always agreed with everything he said, so if he was the problem why didn't Marrone step in? When Marrone took over he specifically said that he wasn't going to just let his coordinators do the work, and that he would be involved in all 3 aspects of the game. If he ignored one of the bigger problems for the Bills all year, that's concerning. If the Bills go out and hire a highly respected coach to replace him, it may soften my tune, but I'm skeptical. I don't know Turbos...we've been over the Crossman thing ad nauseum, so I won't re-hash that in this post. I'm actually okay with re-signing Moorman to the vet minimum, since I wholly believe that he'll face competition from either a late-round pick or priority UDFA (similar to what they did with Lindell and Hopkins last year). As long as there's legit competition at that spot, I'm fine with it. As for Driesbach, I'm not really sure what to make of it. If I'm to give Marrone the benefit of the doubt, which I'd like to do at this point, I suppose I'd say that Marrone may have felt fine with the message that Driesbach was intending to send, while also believing--in the end--that his ability to communicate it to the players in a way that's beneficial for learning isn't effective enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Yes, I agree with all of that. I don't know Turbos...we've been over the Crossman thing ad nauseum, so I won't re-hash that in this post. I'm actually okay with re-signing Moorman to the vet minimum, since I wholly believe that he'll face competition from either a late-round pick or priority UDFA (similar to what they did with Lindell and Hopkins last year). As long as there's legit competition at that spot, I'm fine with it. As for Driesbach, I'm not really sure what to make of it. If I'm to give Marrone the benefit of the doubt, which I'd like to do at this point, I suppose I'd say that Marrone may have felt fine with the message that Driesbach was intending to send, while also believing--in the end--that his ability to communicate it to the players in a way that's beneficial for learning isn't effective enough. I'm not expecting Moorman to be the punter for the Bills either, but really, what's the point of resigning him? The only thing he proved this year is that he can no longer perform at an NFL level, so why waste the effort? Driesbach isn't really important on his own IMO. It's the continuing series of decisions (or lack of decisions) that Marrone has been making. Obviously this is mostly opinion, but I'm not liking what I have been seeing. Edited January 14, 2014 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm not expecting Moorman to be the punter for the Bills either, but really, what's the point of resigning him? The only thing he proved this year is that he can no longer perform at an NFL level, so why waste the effort? Driesbach isn't really important IMO. It's the continuing series of decisions (or lack of decisions) that Marrone has been making. Obviously this is mostly opinion, but I'm not liking what I have been seeing. Not sure...maybe something akin to having a veteran on the roster to provide a push for the young guy they plan to bring in...or it could be that they think Moorman--thanks to his many years of punting here--can impart some valuable wisdom to the youngster on the ins-and-outs of punting at The Ralph, since it's rather notorious for being a difficult stadium in which to punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) I am sure most of the people looking at this thread already read the story about it in the Bucks Country paper, but if not, here is the link: http://www.buckscoun...two-bills-drive The guy seemed a little broken hearted and I feel bad for him. He obviously loved what he was dong. I have no idea whether he deserved to be fired or not, but clearly something was wrong with this defense. Still, the article was a reminder that these are people too, and whatever your walk in life, it sucks to lose a job you love. I hope the guy lands somewhere else he likes as much as Buffalo. Edited January 14, 2014 by jester43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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