Doug Flutie Band Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Jairus is good, and is a pro-bowl caliber safety. However, he's just not at the top of the game right now the same way Earl Thomas is. Thomas is playing at a dominant level, not quite to the level of Polamalu or Reed in their prime but he is approaching it. I'd put Thomas and probably Eric Berry ahead of Byrd, and put Weddle along the same level as Byrd. I still think Byrd is a top 5 safety and I hope the Bills resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thanks for the update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Earl Thomas has been a beast out there. But his role is a lil different than the other 2 you meantion. I dont think you can compare them. He is having a killer year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCOHEN13 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Earl Thomas has been a beast out there. But his role is a lil different than the other 2 you meantion. I dont think you can compare them. He is having a killer year. Doesnt hurt having guys like Sherman as a shutdown CB and Chancellor as his running mate as other Safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Many of us have said this all along...Byrd is very good; not as good as the best safeties in the game like Thomas, Berry, & Weddle. He's probably on par with guys like Goldson, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the update! Yes, the update was needed. I had almost forgotten about Byrd. Edited January 12, 2014 by first_and_ten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjjr Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Earl Thomas is the best safety in football and a rare talent. Hard to compare him to Byrd. Either way, the Bills need to get Byrd re-signed to a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NishP Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Lol, hey thanks man! #gobills BTW EJ Manuel is not Tom Brady and Spiller isn't Lynch, Just to clear that up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 BTW EJ Manuel is not Tom Brady and Spiller isn't Lynch, Just to clear that up! The difference being (of course) that their agents are not having them hold out for top three money................................. but keep laughing. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The question is how would each look in the other's defense in the same situations. I'm quite sure Byrd would equate himself quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think the gap is less than someone watching yesterday's game would likely admit. Thomas is a great player on a great defense that played a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Jairus is good, and is a pro-bowl caliber safety. However, he's just not at the top of the game right now the same way Earl Thomas is. Thomas is playing at a dominant level, not quite to the level of Polamalu or Reed in their prime but he is approaching it. I'd put Thomas and probably Eric Berry ahead of Byrd, and put Weddle along the same level as Byrd. I still think Byrd is a top 5 safety and I hope the Bills resign him. IMO, Byrd is better than Weddle. Weddle is like a god in SD but being the 2nd highest paid player on the team (Rivers is highest at 12mill/yr), I think they may like to get out of that but he is extremely popular with the fan base and they are trying to build that back up after a few bad years. All those other safeties are good but sometimes the highest paid is the most recently paid when you are talking top 5 in the league. Whether Thomas is better than Byrd shouldn't impact whether Byrd gets the deal he wants, IMO, because we don't have the option to replace him with Thomas or someone of that caliber. We would need to use Searcy or Duke Williams or draft a guy we have no idea if he will really replace him. Pay the homegrown, proven talent you have. Edited January 12, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The question is how would each look in the other's defense in the same situations. I'm quite sure Byrd would equate himself quite well. I agree (acquit?). The Bills' D is building towards something strong, but the Seahawks are already there. Also, they get to play with leads and their running game doesn't put the D back on the field every 3 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 We should be collecting pro-bowl players not discarding them. I agree (acquit?). The Bills' D is building towards something strong, but the Seahawks are already there. Also, they get to play with leads and their running game doesn't put the D back on the field every 3 minutes. Can you image our run game with Fred and Marshawn? Oh wait, we had that and let a pro bowl player go for peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The trouble with guys like Polumalu and Ed Reed is that after their first few years they were often hurt. When you play with reckless abandon, you are often throwing your body through the air at full speed to make a play on a guy who is also going full speed. And many times, that other guy is bigger than you. Earl Thomas took a few hits yesterday, and if he continues to play that way he will also start being out of the game with injuries quite often. I don't know how to balance the fact that top safeties play in a way that often gets them hurt, but if they slow down and avoid some of the crazy diving and collision plays, they may not be in the "game changer" category as much, but they can have a longer career with a more reliable level of play. I think this is a big factor for why Byrd is so reluctant to play without a long term deal. Pay the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Defensive schemes make the difference. You can argue that Byrd is no Thomas or Fitzpatrick is no Manuel or Dareus is not Wilfork. Schemes make the difference and Byrds skillset is universal. His lack of speed being his only knock he has football smarts, good hands and makes great decisions. His tackling is top notch and his angles are nearly flawless. Those basic things make him stand out among other safeties, including Weddle who often lowers his head and takes bad angles. Berry used to be better at the run stopping but has showed a regression as the scheme changed, as well. He still gets the tackles but I have seen him get swallowed up in traffic and unable to fight through blockers. Byrd does not get gummed up by blockers the same. Polamula however it is spelled is a Strong Safety, so lets not even bother comparing those unless you want to have a lecture on the differences and what we have seen Byrd do in a Tampa2 defense that was better then Polawhatever did as a lone SS. Ed Reed had the benefit of not having to worry about containing outside runs or plugging the middle because he had a solid DL in front of him and Ray Lewis. Reed was given free range and an open task book in the D backfield. Byrd would benefit the same way if we simply stepped up our LB's to not let RB's leak thru, of course this starts at DT. But, I guess you're right. Earl Thomas is no Byrd. edit: Will this board ever freaking learn a Strong Safety is 180degrees different then a Free Safety? Just because they end in safety doesn't mean they're similar! That's like saying a Quarterback and a Halfback are the same because they both have back on the end. ARGGGHH! Edited January 12, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Defensive schemes make the difference. You can argue that Byrd is no Thomas or Fitzpatrick is no Manuel or Dareus is not Wilfork. Schemes make the difference and Byrds skillset is universal. His lack of speed being his only knock he has football smarts, good hands and makes great decisions. His tackling is top notch and his angles are nearly flawless. Those basic things make him stand out among other safeties, including Weddle who often lowers his head and takes bad angles. Berry used to be better at the run stopping but has showed a regression as the scheme changed, as well. He still gets the tackles but I have seen him get swallowed up in traffic and unable to fight through blockers. Byrd does not get gummed up by blockers the same. Polamula however it is spelled is a Strong Safety, so lets not even bother comparing those unless you want to have a lecture on the differences and what we have seen Byrd do in a Tampa2 defense that was better then Polawhatever did as a lone SS. Ed Reed had the benefit of not having to worry about containing outside runs or plugging the middle because he had a solid DL in front of him and Ray Lewis. Reed was given free range and an open task book in the D backfield. Byrd would benefit the same way if we simply stepped up our LB's to not let RB's leak thru, of course this starts at DT. But, I guess you're right. Earl Thomas is no Byrd. edit: Will this board ever freaking learn a Strong Safety is 180degrees different then a Free Safety? Just because they end in safety doesn't mean they're similar! That's like saying a Quarterback and a Halfback are the same because they both have back on the end. ARGGGHH! Yes, I agree. People need to stop saying that we can replace Byrd with AW. Just. stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 traditional strong safeties are in the process of being phased out similar to the fullback most defenses dont use a run stuffing enforcer safety these days saying they are 180 degrees different is not at all correct in today's NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Doesnt hurt having guys like Sherman as a shutdown CB and Chancellor as his running mate as other Safety That speaks to the team Defense and you're not wrong... Still...The OP is correct...Thomas is the best in the business...I really don't think that speaks ill of Byrd though...Thomas is better than any FS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yes, I agree. People need to stop saying that we can replace Byrd with AW. Just. stop. So...A converted CB who was projected by many Scouts to move to Free Safety in the NFL all of a sudden can't move to Free Safety because he played one year as a SS in a scheme that his DC admits the Safety positions are basically interchangeable? The only reason the Bills did not move Williams to FS is because they already had Byrd who is one of the best in the business...And once they moved him to SS, and Byrd got hurt, they did not want to further confuse the kid by moving him to his 3rd position in two years...Plus Williams was obviously converting well to his new role...Rest assured, if the Bills wanted to, Williams could move to Free Safety and be just fine there... I'd rather have both Byrd and Williams to be honest...But saying Williams cannot move to FS is not correct either...He can...Not sure if it really matters much in Pettine's scheme anyway...But Williams can play FS for just about any team in the NFL...It's a great fit for his skill set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 We should be collecting pro-bowl players not discarding them. Can you image our run game with Fred and Marshawn? Oh wait, we had that and let a pro bowl player go for peanuts. U mean the Lynch that was a major screw up off the field? U mean Lynch who had run ins with the law?. U mean Lynch who was outplayed by FJax? Hindsight is a wonderful thing isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Many of us have said this all along...Byrd is very good; not as good as the best safeties in the game like Thomas, Berry, & Weddle. He's probably on par with guys like Goldson, etc. And iirc, his contact ask was in the ballpark of Goldson deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Dan Quayle is no Jack Kennedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Chris hogan is no Da'Rick ... Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ed Reed: 12 years 64 INTs 11 forced funbles Earl Thomas: 4 years 15 INTs 5 forced fumbles Jairus Byrd: 5 years 22 INTS 11 forced fumbles Byrd creates more turnovers than Thomas does, so I'll take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 edit: Will this board ever freaking learn a Strong Safety is 180degrees different then a Free Safety? Just because they end in safety doesn't mean they're similar! That's like saying a Quarterback and a Halfback are the same because they both have back on the end. ARGGGHH! traditional strong safeties are in the process of being phased out similar to the fullback most defenses dont use a run stuffing enforcer safety these days saying they are 180 degrees different is not at all correct in today's NFL JBoys I would have agreed with you less than 5 years ago, but I think DBF hit the nail on the head here - there are a ton of defenses that have their safeties interchangeable, where they give them responsibility for half the field. Obiously there are still teams that play the traditiional SS and FS, but I'd argue on a majority of teams in the league the past few years, both starting safety positions are probably more similar in responsibility than say a flanker WR and his split end partner. Take the Bills for instance - Pettine came in saying both safety positions would be for all intents and purposes interchangeable. After 16 games, I'd argue that was half true - there were plenty of times in games (usually on obvious passing situations) where Byrd was a true centerfielder and AW played up on the line. However, on DBF's point on the lack of "run stuffing" safeties, I would argue that they haven't been phased out as much as used differently, albiet less - take how the Bills used Searcy this year and even Bryan Scott a few years back in the hybrid S/LB position in nickel and dime packages. They're still on teams, its just their reps and importance has been reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 JBoys I would have agreed with you less than 5 years ago, but I think DBF hit the nail on the head here - there are a ton of defenses that have their safeties interchangeable, where they give them responsibility for half the field. Obiously there are still teams that play the traditiional SS and FS, but I'd argue on a majority of teams in the league the past few years, both starting safety positions are probably more similar in responsibility than say a flanker WR and his split end partner. Take the Bills for instance - Pettine came in saying both safety positions would be for all intents and purposes interchangeable. After 16 games, I'd argue that was half true - there were plenty of times in games (usually on obvious passing situations) where Byrd was a true centerfielder and AW played up on the line. However, on DBF's point on the lack of "run stuffing" safeties, I would argue that they haven't been phased out as much as used differently, albiet less - take how the Bills used Searcy this year and even Bryan Scott a few years back in the hybrid S/LB position in nickel and dime packages. They're still on teams, its just their reps and importance has been reduced. Interesting. Like all positions, that of the "safety" has evolved as the game has evolved. Use to be that safeties, instead of "free" and "strong" were designated "left" and "right" as related to which side of the field they played. Regardless, one or both will play high or low, and the "safety" will always be the QBs first read, pre-snap. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 And iirc, his contact ask was in the ballpark of Goldson deal. We actually don't know what his demands were; all we know is a report from Adam Benigni claiming that Buffalo offered Byrd a contract that would make him the 4th highest paid safety in football. If you consider that credible, that is--I'm not sure if I do or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 That Finkel is no Einhorn..... or is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 edit: Will this board ever freaking learn a Strong Safety is 180degrees different then a Free Safety? Just because they end in safety doesn't mean they're similar! That's like saying a Quarterback and a Halfback are the same because they both have back on the end. ARGGGHH! Two quarterbacks = one halfback. And a strong safety is not 180 degrees than a free safety. It's only 90 degrees different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Let me think on this some more. Bit two quick hits. And sorry its a pain in the ass to quote from the cell. But we are judging reed and polamiloandstitch on their 5 gears ago And with our crazy db situation in 2913 I think Leonhard really gave a dynamic we did not expect. Prior to this year and mostly because of kinky and robey Byrd had been a traditional over the top umbrella FS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) We actually don't know what his demands were; all we know is a report from Adam Benigni claiming that Buffalo offered Byrd a contract that would make him the 4th highest paid safety in football. https://twitter.com/...801383921500160 If you consider that credible, that is--I'm not sure if I do or not. I really hate (sorry R Rich) that Benigni's meme has become the gospel, because of how he worded the tweet. Making Byrd the 4th highest paid safety doesn't make him the 4th best safety. It just reflects his timing to become a free agent. Goldson's deal set the market rate for a top level safety. Byrd should have been paid a smidgen more, and there would have been zero issues between him & the team. Edit: sorry, I was referring to Benigni's tweet that Byrd insisted on being the higher paid safety. That was the reflection of free agency. The going rate for 2013 free agent contracts surpassed previous contracts, and Byrd should have been the top 1 or 2 paid, based on his timing. Doesn't mean he's the best. Also, the Bills were putting an ideological line over $2- $3 million in guarantees over 3 years. That's small change, considering the guy is an all-pro. I hear all the arguments that you can't pay top dollar for every position. But the Bills also don't have all-pros in every position. When they finally stumbled onto one in a decade, it made sense to keep him. He's a good player and a difference maker on the field. Pay the man. Edited January 13, 2014 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Highly doubt that Seattle will not be able to re-sign Earl Thomas when his contract comes due. And that's a team with talent all over the field who'll find the cash to keep their top players under contract. Agree with GG. Who else are the Bills going to re-sign in 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 We actually don't know what his demands were; all we know is a report from Adam Benigni claiming that Buffalo offered Byrd a contract that would make him the 4th highest paid safety in football. If you consider that credible, that is--I'm not sure if I do or not. and even then - 4th highest paid is still a muddy term once you get into length, guarantees, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ed Reed: 12 years 64 INTs 11 forced funbles Earl Thomas: 4 years 15 INTs 5 forced fumbles Jairus Byrd: 5 years 22 INTS 11 forced fumbles Byrd creates more turnovers than Thomas does, so I'll take him. If those stats are accurate (I have no reason to think they are not, and too lazy to look myself) that is pretty damn impressive....Byrd isn't the hitter that the other two guys are...but nowadays, all that does is get you a flag...turnovers are huge! I will admit, I am one who is in the "let him fly if he doesn't want to be here....don't overpay him" camp..but those are impressive numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Highly doubt that Seattle will not be able to re-sign Earl Thomas when his contract comes due. And that's a team with talent all over the field who'll find the cash to keep their top players under contract. It will be interesting to see what they do. Let's remember, that in the next couple years, they are going to have to pay Wilson (who could have a SB = top QB money), Sherman (top corner money) and Thomas (top safety money). They are going to have some issues doing that. Edit: Okung will be coming due as well. Edited January 13, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) If those stats are accurate (I have no reason to think they are not, and too lazy to look myself) that is pretty damn impressive....Byrd isn't the hitter that the other two guys are...but nowadays, all that does is get you a flag...turnovers are huge! I will admit, I am one who is in the "let him fly if he doesn't want to be here....don't overpay him" camp..but those are impressive numbers. http://espn.go.com/n...613/jairus-byrd http://espn.go.com/n...id/3552/ed-reed http://espn.go.com/n...251/earl-thomas Troy Polamalu 11 years 32 INT 13 forced fumbles http://espn.go.com/n...4/troy-polamalu Edited January 13, 2014 by Fingon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It will be interesting to see what they do. Let's remember, that in the next couple years, they are going to have to pay Wilson (who could have a SB = top QB money), Sherman (top corner money) and Thomas (top safety money). They are going to have some issues doing that. and Lynch. Thend Harvin still has a huge contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 and Lynch. Thend Harvin still has a huge contract. Good point. I forgot about those contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 http://espn.go.com/n...613/jairus-byrd http://espn.go.com/n...id/3552/ed-reed http://espn.go.com/n...251/earl-thomas Troy Polamalu 11 years 32 INT 13 forced fumbles http://espn.go.com/n...4/troy-polamalu P was a SS when a SS was a strong safety. And he was on the Pittsburgh D who has been stacked with LB's Much like Reed who was a FS who had the entire field to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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