A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order....

[C.Biscuit97]

Bill is right about Gilmore - he was the worst player on defense yesterday. His technique was absolutely terrible. When he tried to jam Bowe at the line, he got abused. When he shaded off of him he got abused. He seemed winded. I don't know what's going on with him but it's troubling.

 

Yeah, Bowe completely owned Gilmore to the tune of 67 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. I swear folks just hate to hate. Bowe is thought of as one of the best and most physical wrs in the NFL. Gilmore, less than a month after wrist surgery, covered him one on one and gave up less than 70 yards.

 

Face it, it was a bad day to hate on the folks he normally hates on (cough, Spiller, cough).

[thebandit27]

I didn't think Gilmore had a bad game. Bowe is a big, fast, physical receiver. It is very hard to completely shut a guy like that down, especially if the offense is satisfied with the dink and dunk type stuff that Smith was throwing to Bowe yesterday. And the pass interference call against Gilmore was highly questionable, despite Dierdorf's suggestion to contrary.

 

I agree that the PI call was pretty flimsy.

 

I don't say Gilmore's bad game is so much a reflection of the yards/receptions surrendered in his coverage, but rather that he lost technique and got turned around an unusually high number of times. Yes, Bowe's a good WR, so that's a good point. I guess I'm not used to seeing Gilmore struggle with his technique as often as he did yesterday.

 

He needs to get that shored up.

 

You are right; he didn't hurt the team yesterday with his play.

[Coach Tuesday]

Yeah, Bowe completely owned Gilmore to the tune of 67 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. I swear folks just hate to hate. Bowe is thought of as one of the best and most physical wrs in the NFL. Gilmore, less than a month after wrist surgery, covered him one on one and gave up less than 70 yards.

 

Face it, it was a bad day to hate on the folks he normally hates on (cough, Spiller, cough).

 

Or they just have a different opinion than you... amazing, I know, since you seem to know everything.

 

He was open more than he was thrown to. Gimore was getting handled. That's what I saw. I've never "hated" on him before - I thought he was a great pick and I thought he was well on his way to being a shutdown corner. He looked terrible yesterday. That's my opinion. There is no agenda. You need to lower the testosterone level a bit.

[CBD]

Because Bill from NYC continues to grasp at straws to defend his points each week. Example: I disagreed with both of Marrone's challenges last week against New Orleans. Yet this week, is there anyone on planet Earth, Bills fan or otherwise, that thought throwing the challenge flag on that play wasn't the right thing to do? It was so close to being a catch and it was such a big play that you had to at least give it a shot there. And honestly, I thought it wouldn't get overturned, but I thought it should have. And then Bill is criticizing them for kicking a field goal with 1:47 left in the first half, instead of, what? I don't know. Burning more time or something? And yeah, Bowe had 60+ yards against Gilmore in man coverage, the first week he got his cast off. Let's cut the guy. His posts just get more and more preposterous every week.

Slowing down their offense to allow less time remaining for the Chiefs offense. Perhaps running on 2nd down and goal to allow the clock to run or force a time out.

[thebandit27]

Or they just have a different opinion than you... amazing, I know, since you seem to know everything.

 

He was open more than he was thrown to. Gimore was getting handled. That's what I saw. I've never "hated" on him before - I thought he was a great pick and I thought he was well on his way to being a shutdown corner. He looked terrible yesterday. That's my opinion. There is no agenda. You need to lower the testosterone level a bit.

 

I do think Gilmore is an excellent corner, and I think he looked lousy yesterday. It happens; guys have bad games.

 

The good news is that if that's the worst he allows to happen on a bad day, then he's doing well for himself.

 

Even on a bad day, he handled his business on the deep shot(s) and nearly caused a turnover.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

I didn't think Gilmore had a bad game. Bowe is a big, fast, physical receiver. It is very hard to completely shut a guy like that down, especially if the offense is satisfied with the dink and dunk type stuff that Smith was throwing to Bowe yesterday. And the pass interference call against Gilmore was highly questionable, despite Dierdorf's suggestion to contrary.

 

Thank you ... what we have in #24 is a gifted young shutdown corner-in-the-making who is very savvy when the ball is in the air, and who competes on every single ball. Pettine will make him a star before long.

 

But where we have evolved on these TBD pages is the land of unrealistic expectations ... coupled with, in some cases, a lack of understanding on how pass defense is played. It seems as though people want to keep Gilmore's performance simple in their mind ...

• they put Gilmore on Bowe, so therefore, any catch by Bowe is a failure by Gilmore
  

Incorrect assumption. Without seeing the all-22 or knowing the coverage they were in, it's hard to tell who screwed up on any given play. Anytime we are in a zone-type coverage, Gilmore may have only truly had Bowe to his deep third, and may have protected it well enough that Bowe cut the route off and took what was available underneath.

 

I am not saying all of Bowe's catches were on underneath zone stuff. What I am saying is this: no one but Pettine and the players know for sure what the defensive design was. And it does not have to mean we played zone across the board ... as crazy as Pettine has been with bringing overload pressure, it could be man to one side, zone to the other, or something crazy like that. Bowe made a few catches, but did not do much damage.

 

To deduce that Gilmore is overrated on his 3rd game back from a significant injury is asinine

[34-78-83]

Regardless of what we all think good or bad, I am certain that the coaches will take Bowe coming up with <70 yds receiving, under 10 per catch and no Td's against Gilmore w/ no help every time. Could he have done better? sure...without question.

[C.Biscuit97]

Or they just have a different opinion than you... amazing, I know, since you seem to know everything.

 

He was open more than he was thrown to. Gimore was getting handled. That's what I saw. I've never "hated" on him before - I thought he was a great pick and I thought he was well on his way to being a shutdown corner. He looked terrible yesterday. That's my opinion. There is no agenda. You need to lower the testosterone level a bit.

 

He manned up on arguably a top 10 wr (though Alex Smith is killing him this year) and held him to 70 yards and less than 10 ypc and he's not even 100%. I really don't get what some folks chose to get mad at. How anyone can find fault in the D or Gilmore is beyond me.

[SactoBillFan]

Can't agree with the Marrone/Gilmore beefs. Bottom line turnovers handed the game to KC. The pick six almost made me puke.

[jumbalaya]

I like what we are getting from Robey at CB. A lot of Jabari Greer in this guy. Which is a shame because as sure as I am writing this we will let him walk in a few years.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Yeah, Bowe completely owned Gilmore to the tune of 67 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. I swear folks just hate to hate. Bowe is thought of as one of the best and most physical wrs in the NFL. Gilmore, less than a month after wrist surgery, covered him one on one and gave up less than 70 yards.

 

Face it, it was a bad day to hate on the folks he normally hates on (cough, Spiller, cough).

 

This post is nonsense. I heaped praise on Spiller for his game on Sunday. As for Gilmore, a recent post shows PFF agreeing with me. You, by jumping all over me for having opinions, are doing pretty much what you accuse me of. You seem to have preconceived notions on what I say.

It would be like me blasting you week after week and reminding every poster of your current, and long time praise of Dick Jauron. Who knows? Perhaps one day you will change your mind about your jobless football hero. I think he was a disaster, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

As for Gilmore, I would like more from a #10 selection in an NFL draft. As a Bills Fan yes, I AM a tad gun shy of wasted resources. You know what I mean.....picks like Maybin, Whitner, and other selections by your football icon Dick Jauron. If and when Gilmore comes around I will be as happy as you, and will talk all day about how he wins us a game, or better yet games.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[MDH]

If and when Gilmore comes around I will be as happy as you, and will talk all day about how he wins us a game, or better yet games.

 

He has come around, which is the point people make to you. The fact that you haven't noticed it makes people think you're loathe to admit a mistake.

 

Much like you I believe in building teams from the lines out and I'm generally not happy when the Bills do it otherwise. After a rough start last year the guy has been fantastic for a young corner. He's made me a believer when I wasn't at first. He's aggressive, which leads to more penalties than you'd like but for the most part he shuts guys down. I don't get why you don't see it.

Edited November 5, 2013 by MDH

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

He has come around, which is the point people make to you. The fact that you haven't noticed it makes people think you're loathe to admit a mistake.

 

Much like you I believe in building teams from the lines out and I'm generally not happy when the Bills do it otherwise. After a rough start last year the guy has been fantastic for a young corner. He's made me a believer when I wasn't at first. He's aggressive, which leads to more penalties than you'd like but for the most part he shuts guys down. I don't get why you don't see it.

 

I admitted a mistake about A. Williams in the OP. If you recall, when we drafted him the team that went after us traded their pick in round 2 and got a first in the following season. Now, he looks VERY good and I sing his praises.

 

I also do admit that I care a lot where players are drafted. I think that most of us do. For instance, who do you focus on more, Gilmore or Moats? We have pros making draft decisions and some are mind boggling, but I still hang onto the right to expect a great deal from a top 10 pick.

People like you and I are fanatics. We love this team and have too much invested in it. Want proof? It's 5 AM. I work at 7:30 and am drinking coffee and talking to you about the Bills lol.

 

Maybe we can agree to disagree about not what Gilmore CAN be, but where he is now. And, maybe my expectations from a #10 ARE too high. You be the judge. What I do promise is that when he makes a play and ices a game for us, my praise for him will be as loud as any poster here.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JM57]

Usually I disagree with Bill about Gilmore. Sunday he had a very rough day. Dwayne Bowe is a pretty big guy. I'm not sure he has a reputation for being overly physical. But to me it seems the Chiefs saw on film that Gilmore wasn't quite himself yet and coached Bowe to go right AT Gilmore. Battle with him. Make him test that arm and wrist.

 

Bowe won. Gilmore didn't have use of that hand or arm for almost 8 weeks. That's a whole lot of lost strength. It should improve week to week but it was obvious he's not 100% in that department

[YOOOOOO]

Look Gilmore didn't have a good game on Sunday, but the way this post reads you'd think Bowe had 8 catches for 150yds...

[thewildrabbit]

Fortunately or unfortunately, I was only able to see the first half live, and had to follow the rest on my phone. I was definitely disappointed in Gilmore, because I expected him to shut Bowe down. Having said that, I did notice that Bowe did almost nothing in the 2nd half, and overall didn't do a ton of damage. I don't know if Gilmore stepped up in the 2nd half or what. I'm looking forward to seeing the All-22 breakdowns for this game -- I want to know just how many catches & yards Gilmore gave up. Someone posted that 22 of Bowe's yards came against not-Gilmore. I can live with 50 yards or so for the opposition's top receiver, but I expect better from Gilmore if that top receiver is as low-caliber as Dwayne Bowe (especially since Bowe is having a terrible season so far). I did notice that his coverage was perfect (with no help) on the deep ball to Bowe after Hughes' strip-sack, so it's not like he was awful.

The Chiefs QB only threw for 124 yards, and the Bills D only allowed 3 FG's on offense in that game.

 

The defense, nor any player on it was the problem against the chiefs. Dunno why anyone is even bringing up the defense.

 

It was allowing the game to be put in the hands of an undrafted FA QB, and then blaming him when he fails.

 

Wonder what changes when the FO runs that thru their new analytic dept?

[JM57]

Look Gilmore didn't have a good game on Sunday, but the way this post reads you'd think Bowe had 8 catches for 150yds...

 

Bowe had season highs in catches and yards....so it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows unfortunately

[MDH]

Bowe had season highs in catches and yards....so it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows unfortunately

 

If a "bad" game by Gilmore is 7 catches for 67 yards (and that's if you tag Gilmore for every single reception) I'll take it. Nothing Bowe did hurt the Bills and Gilmore kept him in front of him and wrapped him up quickly after each catch. Those types of plays aren't going to lose games and if that's "bad" then I'm happy.

[ganesh]

Look Gilmore didn't have a good game on Sunday, but the way this post reads you'd think Bowe had 8 catches for 150yds...

+1. Bowe had minimal impact on this game. He had very little yards after catch on those 6 catches. I thought Fasano had a bigger impact in moving the chains.

[Coach Tuesday]

If a "bad" game by Gilmore is 7 catches for 67 yards (and that's if you tag Gilmore for every single reception) I'll take it. Nothing Bowe did hurt the Bills and Gilmore kept him in front of him and wrapped him up quickly after each catch. Those types of plays aren't going to lose games and if that's "bad" then I'm happy.

 

Maybe so - but that's not what you spend a first round pick on. Drayton Florence could give you that kind of production.

 

Again, it's hopefully an abberation - it was by far the worst I've seen Gilmore play, and I have every reason to think it was a fluke. But let's not disguise it as a good or even acceptable performance. The only reason Bowe didn't hurt us was that Alex Smith was throwing him the ball. You can't afford to play cornerback like that most weeks.

[thebandit27]

Maybe so - but that's not what you spend a first round pick on. Drayton Florence could give you that kind of production.

 

Again, it's hopefully an abberation - it was by far the worst I've seen Gilmore play, and I have every reason to think it was a fluke. But let's not disguise it as a good or even acceptable performance. The only reason Bowe didn't hurt us was that Alex Smith was throwing him the ball. You can't afford to play cornerback like that most weeks.

 

Again, I agree with the bold. I'm as big a Gilmore fan as there is, and he undoubtedly had his worst game since the Jets opener last year.

 

I have no doubt he'll bounce back, as he has before.

[C.Biscuit97]

Maybe so - but that's not what you spend a first round pick on. Drayton Florence could give you that kind of production.

 

Again, it's hopefully an abberation - it was by far the worst I've seen Gilmore play, and I have every reason to think it was a fluke. But let's not disguise it as a good or even acceptable performance. The only reason Bowe didn't hurt us was that Alex Smith was throwing him the ball. You can't afford to play cornerback like that most weeks.

 

The worst he ever played and he allowed less than 70 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. Congrats, you basically said Gilmore has to be Deion Sanders. Fact: if Gilmore didn't allow those 67 yards, the Bills win. He is killing this team!

[34-78-83]

The worst he ever played and he allowed less than 70 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. Congrats, you basically said Gilmore has to be Deion Sanders. Fact: if Gilmore didn't allow those 67 yards, the Bills win. He is killing this team!

 

you don't get it. He needs to shut everyone down, bar none. He was a 1st round pick afterall! ...............

 

 

Does anyone recall Bruce Smith vs. Richmond Webb? Just sayin'

[MDH]

you don't get it. He needs to shut everyone down, bar none. He was a 1st round pick afterall! ...............

 

 

No kidding. He has to be the best CB ever apparently.

[thebandit27]

The worst he ever played and he allowed less than 70 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. Congrats, you basically said Gilmore has to be Deion Sanders. Fact: if Gilmore didn't allow those 67 yards, the Bills win. He is killing this team!

you don't get it. He needs to shut everyone down, bar none. He was a 1st round pick afterall! ...............

 

 

Does anyone recall Bruce Smith vs. Richmond Webb? Just sayin'

 

Guys, you are straw-man arguing here; that's not what Coach Tuesday said at all. He simply said that Gilmore needs to be better than that, and even said that he normally is better than that.

 

As I've said, I'm as staunch a supporter of Gilmore as there is, and i completely agree with Coach on this one.

[34-78-83]

Guys, you are straw-man arguing here; that's not what Coach Tuesday said at all. He simply said that Gilmore needs to be better than that, and even said that he normally is better than that.

 

As I've said, I'm as staunch a supporter of Gilmore as there is, and i completely agree with Coach on this one.

 

 

It's not Coach Tuesday I was specifically responding to as his point overall is accurate. It's all the posters who have unrealistic ideas of what a good/ great player is, and those who forget that there is another NFL player across the way from the player in question.

[buffaloboyinATL]

 

 

Everyone not named Jeff Tuel played pretty well today.

Did Chandler and Easly change their names to Tuel?

[Orton's Arm]

Two things: First, Marrone doesn't call offensive plays, Hackett does. And second, a run was called and Tuel correctly audibled out of it to a pass when KC showed they were bringing everybody.

 

And that makes me wonder if instead of looking to hit Graham underneath, Tuel finds a wide open Stevie Johnson in the end zone and the Bills go up 17-3, is it still a bad call? Does execution not matter?

 

Good post. If the defense is selling out against the run and daring you to beat them with the pass, the correct decision is to pass.

 

Unfortunately, the Bills had a rookie QB in his first NFL start. Tuel made a rookie mistake on that play; and the Bills got burned.

 

Even though the pick-6 was a terrible read, I felt Tuel's overall body of work was much stronger in the Chiefs game than it had been in the Browns game. If Tuel continues to improve, I'd like to see him on the roster for a long time.

[Bill from NYC]

Even though the pick-6 was a terrible read, I felt Tuel's overall body of work was much stronger in the Chiefs game than it had been in the Browns game. If Tuel continues to improve, I'd like to see him on the roster for a long time.

 

Oddly enough, it seems as if you and I have reversed positions on qb play. Imo it is now SUCH a qb driven league, there appears to be little place for a qb with such limited arm strength.

We shall see.

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

Oddly enough, it seems as if you and I have reversed positions on qb play. Imo it is now SUCH a qb driven league, there appears to be little place for a qb with such limited arm strength.

We shall see.

 

Any backup QB is going to have flaws. If he didn't, he wouldn't be a backup. Choosing a backup QB is a matter of choosing a guy whose flaws are least bad; or else finding a guy with the best offsetting strengths.

 

During the preseason, my impression of Tuel was that he was more accurate than Fitz and had better physical tuels. Obviously Tuel has looked worse in the regular season than the preseason. But if my preseason impression of Tuel is correct--if he is indeed more accurate, faster, and stronger-armed than Fitz--then Tuel has the potential to be a very solid backup. Of course, he'd also need to do a respectable job of handling the mental side of the game. That pick-6 is a perfect example of a non-respectable job of handling the mental aspects of the game! It's something he'll have to correct if he's going to make it in this league even as a backup.

 

As an aside, I wish they gave QBs an arm strength test. To achieve this, they'd tell the QB to throw the ball as far as he could. They'd give him five throws; and whichever throw was his best one would become his arm strength measurement. That way, we could talk about QB X as a 55 yard guy; or QB Y as a 65 yard guy. Better to have a hard and fast measurement than to go by subjective impressions.

[maddenboy]

I think an Arm Strength measurement should also include velocity. Like with a radar gun.

 

Hell, I could probably throw it 70 yards too. If I lobbed it in the air like a punt. Which would be intercepted 10/10 times.

[K-9]

Any backup QB is going to have flaws. If he didn't, he wouldn't be a backup. Choosing a backup QB is a matter of choosing a guy whose flaws are least bad; or else finding a guy with the best offsetting strengths.

 

During the preseason, my impression of Tuel was that he was more accurate than Fitz and had better physical tuels. Obviously Tuel has looked worse in the regular season than the preseason. But if my preseason impression of Tuel is correct--if he is indeed more accurate, faster, and stronger-armed than Fitz--then Tuel has the potential to be a very solid backup. Of course, he'd also need to do a respectable job of handling the mental side of the game. That pick-6 is a perfect example of a non-respectable job of handling the mental aspects of the game! It's something he'll have to correct if he's going to make it in this league even as a backup.

 

As an aside, I wish they gave QBs an arm strength test. To achieve this, they'd tell the QB to throw the ball as far as he could. They'd give him five throws; and whichever throw was his best one would become his arm strength measurement. That way, we could talk about QB X as a 55 yard guy; or QB Y as a 65 yard guy. Better to have a hard and fast measurement than to go by subjective impressions.

 

You may want to recheck Tuel's pre-season when he wasn't playing 3rd and 4th stringers and guys no longer in the league like he was against the Colts. In the most important pre-season game, against the Redskins when he was taking the starter's reps and facing 1st and 2nd stringers, he went 10/17 for a whopping 63 yards. And looked bad doing it.

 

They DO give QBs arm strength tests. It's called the 20 yard out from the far hash, on time, from three and five step drops.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Simon]

They DO give QBs arm strength tests. It's called the 20 yard out from the far hash, on time, from three and five step drops.

There ain't nothing subjective about that; either you can get it home or you can't.

[CardinalScotts]

ya Bowe ripped them for 9 points on offense...Gilmore was used. I know I'll stop reading these points ...in no particular order

[Bill from NYC]

As an aside, I wish they gave QBs an arm strength test. To achieve this, they'd tell the QB to throw the ball as far as he could. They'd give him five throws; and whichever throw was his best one would become his arm strength measurement. That way, we could talk about QB X as a 55 yard guy; or QB Y as a 65 yard guy. Better to have a hard and fast measurement than to go by subjective impressions.

 

There are SO many different types of arm strength. I think that almost every qb can throw a ball 60 yards. But what matters most is the actual zip on the last 5 or 10 yards. Does it flutter in ala Fitz/Tuel, or does it fly in ala Bledsoe/Marino. How much air does a qb need to throw a long pass? Losman, as bad as he was, needed little. I saw Ryan Mallett toss a FLAT FOOTED 50 yard post pattern and the football was never higher than 20 feet.

 

As for Tuel specifically, I think that Trent Edwards had a better arm. Tuel already has better pocket presence than Trent, but his long ball flutters big time. That's a big problem at this level, or so I see it my friend.

[Fixxxer]

Guys, you are straw-man arguing here; that's not what Coach Tuesday said at all. He simply said that Gilmore needs to be better than that, and even said that he normally is better than that.

 

As I've said, I'm as staunch a supporter of Gilmore as there is, and i completely agree with Coach on this one.

 

As bad as Gilmore was that day, he still made a couple of plays that gave the team another chance. Like this one before TJ's fumble

 

(14:27) 11-A.Smith pass incomplete short middle to 82-D.Bowe (24-S.Gilmore). Receiver and coverage at KC 41, crossing from right.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013110300/2013/REG9/chiefs@bills#menu=highlights&tab=analyze&recap=quicktake&analyze=playbyplay

[San Jose Bills Fan]

There are SO many different types of arm strength. I think that almost every qb can throw a ball 60 yards. But what matters most is the actual zip on the last 5 or 10 yards. Does it flutter in ala Fitz/Tuel, or does it fly in ala Bledsoe/Marino. How much air does a qb need to throw a long pass? Losman, as bad as he was, needed little. I saw Ryan Mallett toss a FLAT FOOTED 50 yard post pattern and the football was never higher than 20 feet.

 

As for Tuel specifically, I think that Trent Edwards had a better arm. Tuel already has better pocket presence than Trent, but his long ball flutters big time. That's a big problem at this level, or so I see it my friend.

 

Several people have commented on arm strength as the subject evolved after EA's post.

 

To me, true arm strength has to do with how well a QB can EFFORTLESSLY throw a ball. Tuel had several throws last Sunday that were reminiscent of Fitzy in that in an effort to generate velocity, he lost accuracy and his release also took longer.

 

There are plenty of QBs who supposedly don't have strong arms who have done well for the radar gun and numerous "strong-armed QBs" who've thrown up modest numbers on the radar gun.

 

 

As an aside, I wish they gave QBs an arm strength test. To achieve this, they'd tell the QB to throw the ball as far as he could. They'd give him five throws; and whichever throw was his best one would become his arm strength measurement. That way, we could talk about QB X as a 55 yard guy; or QB Y as a 65 yard guy. Better to have a hard and fast measurement than to go by subjective impressions.

 

 

EJ threw "only 54 mph" at the combine but I've already seen him make throws which I haven't seen a Bills QB make in a few decades.

 

What's that you say? Radar gun readings at the combine? It's true.

 

I've posted this before and I'll post it again.

 

Average radar gun readings for every QB who has thrown at the combine since 2008:

 

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

You may want to recheck Tuel's pre-season when he wasn't playing 3rd and 4th stringers and guys no longer in the league like he was against the Colts. In the most important pre-season game, against the Redskins when he was taking the starter's reps and facing 1st and 2nd stringers, he went 10/17 for a whopping 63 yards. And looked bad doing it.

 

They DO give QBs arm strength tests. It's called the 20 yard out from the far hash, on time, from three and five step drops.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I agree that Tuel was disappointing in the preseason game against the Redskins. I realize Tuel is more likely to fail than to succeed. But I want to see him given a fair shake and accurately evaluated anyway.

 

As for the arm strength thing: you can generally use a 40 yard dash to quantify how fast a guy is. Or agility drills to put a number on how agile a guy is. But while the 20 yard out seems like it would give scouts a general idea of a QB's arm strength, I don't think it would allow them to quantify that arm strength the way that a 40 yard dash quantifies foot speed.

 

Bill from NYC also brought up a good point about how a throw in a straight line is often better than a rainbow. Maybe they could do two arm strength tests. Test 1 would consist of throwing the ball as far as possible. Test 2 would consist of throwing the ball as far as possible, in a long building with a 13 foot roof.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

As a postscript to my post two above, Nassib threw harder for the radar gun than did EJ but at the Quicken Loans Skills Challenge, EJ threw the ball considerably farther.

 

Again EJ didn't overwhelm on the radar gun but he's thrown a few lasers since becoming a Buffalo Bill that clearly show off his elite arm talent.

 

Effortlessness + quick release + ball spin + velocity = Elite Arm Talent

 

And of course you have to be accurate.

[QCity]

Scouts measure arm strength on how well a QB can throw the deep out (15-20 yds) from standing still in the pocket. They clock the time from the set position (right before he begins his motion) to the time when the ball reaches his target. This means both the throwing motion (or release) is combined with velocity to estimate arm strength. Most fans erroneously associate arm strength with how far a QB can throw the bomb (Hey man I seen Fitz throw the ball 50+ yards!!), but every NFL QB can unload a 50+ yd Hail Mary if they rear back and step into it.

 

For reference, a 15-20 yd sideline out will have to travel ~35 yds if thrown from the pocket, and it typically has to come in at a low trajectory i.e. "on a rope." Not an easy throw to make, and on the rare attempts by Fitz, you were left holding your breath as that ball hung in the air for what felt like hours. Marino was probably the best I've ever seen at throwing the deep out, and he made it look as effortless as snapping his fingers.

 

One of the reasons the Jets have our number is because Rex Ryan knows we can't make that throw. They completely take away the middle of the field and sit back and dare us to throw the middle and deep outs into man coverage.