34-78-83 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm sorry but this is such an awful post. It's typical of our society's flawed thought process that leds us nowhere. Everything is black and white when it's really grey. 1) I loved Fitz and still root for the guy. I want him to do well. Bashing him at this point is so petty. The guy had about as good of a game as any REASONABLE fan should expect out of their backup QB. Good for Fitz and if this was a perfect world, he's be the backup/ mentor to EJ. 2) Yet to make a point to support Fitz, you need to tear down EJ to make it. Awesome. And you're 100% right. Every 1st round QB has been amazing the second they were draft. No rookie has even struggled. EJ was completely inept in leading a comeback W against a top 5 defense in Carolina. He looked completely inept in leading us to the lead in a primetime road game. He was completely inept when he left the field in the 4th quarter with a lead against the Pats. Typical terrible American mindset. My side is right and yours is wrong!!! Well said brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) One of the most respected draft analysts out there--Greg Cosell--has also implied that Manuel should have been taken in the fourth round or later. Frankly, I have more faith in Cosell's judgement than in the Bills' front office. http://www.nfl.com/n...reg-cosell-says Why am I not surprised that you'd so readily agree with someone who's pre-conceived judgement agrees with your own. Yeah, I'd say Greg Cossell has his finger firmly on the pulse of NFL QB talent. Oh, and by the way, nothing in your linked article suggests Cosell implied Manuel should be taken in the 4th round or later. GO BILLS!!! Edited November 15, 2013 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152748/article/ryan-nassib-is-top-qb-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says Why am I not surprised that you'd so readily agree with someone who's pre-conceived judgement agrees with your own. Yeah, I'd say Greg Cossell has his finger firmly on the pulse of NFL QB talent. GO BILLS!!! lol +1000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/n...reg-cosell-says Why am I not surprised that you'd so readily agree with someone who's pre-conceived judgement agrees with your own. Yeah, I'd say Greg Cossell has his finger firmly on the pulse of NFL QB talent. GO BILLS!!! Ryan Nassib! Even Marrone didn't want him as his ceiling is likely limited to being a decent NFL backup. Edited November 15, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 One of the most respected draft analysts out there--Greg Cosell--has also implied that Manuel should have been taken in the fourth round or later. Frankly, I have more faith in Cosell's judgement than in the Bills' front office. Seriously, Greg Cosell? Do you have any past record of his past projections? Do u think he had Kiko being in the 2nd? God, that hasn't worked out all. Draft projections are like the dumbest thing ever. So if the Bills really liked Manuel, they should risk not drafting because it was earlier than Todd McShay had him rated? Complete nonsense. Manuel's college numbers compared favorably to recent 1st round qb. When you combine his mental makeup, he definitely has 1st round makeup. This is crazy but why don't we give the guy the Bills wanted more than 6 games before deciding he is failure? Also, missing training camp & a month of season don't help. But again, some folks here would have run Kelly out of town his rookie year & he was 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Either get back on topic or not. If you want to start a where should EJ have been drafted thread please have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 http://www.nfl.com/n...reg-cosell-says Why am I not surprised that you'd so readily agree with someone who's pre-conceived judgement agrees with your own. Yeah, I'd say Greg Cossell has Hey, I'm sure Cossell knows more about Nasib than Morrone though. I'd trust his judgement more on this one too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Never said he did. He just throws to whoever is running the 7-yard crossing pattern every time. Just good enough to look competent, and just good enough to lose. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the game or taking a leak when TENN had the ball. Get Game Rewind and count how many long throws Fitz makes that hit his receiver on both hands and were dropped. PTR Edited November 15, 2013 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the game or taking a leak when TENN had the ball. Get Game Rewind and count how many long throws Fitz makes that hit his receiver on both hands and were dropped. PTR Save us the time. How many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Save us the time. How many? Yeah, tell us all about the mad bomber. I'll guess that before the prevent defense he went deep twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) You must be new to the NFL I was drafted! Wow! I must have missed that call on draft day. No but seriously, I'm just tired of people calling him an awesome guy and community guy when given a choice, he ditched both. Edited November 15, 2013 by benderbender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I was drafted! Wow! I must have missed that call on draft day. No but seriously, I'm just tired of people calling him an awesome guy and community guy when given a choice, he ditched both. That's the thing though-- he didn't ditch us, we ditched him. Buddy was like, "Look, thanks for trying, but you clearly are not the answer, even though I told everyone you were. So, please accept this demotion, where you may be able to compete for a back-up job (assuming the new coach likes you--and you'll have to prove yourself to him, of course-- and assuming you can get over the awkwardness of going from team leader to scrub). While you're at it, please tear up that big contract we gave you last year, so we can give you almost no guaranteed money." Any sane person would have done what Fitz did and basically get out of dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/n...reg-cosell-says Why am I not surprised that you'd so readily agree with someone who's pre-conceived judgement agrees with your own. Yeah, I'd say Greg Cossell has his finger firmly on the pulse of NFL QB talent. Oh, and by the way, nothing in your linked article suggests Cosell implied Manuel should be taken in the 4th round or later. GO BILLS!!! Thanks for the link. In the video portion of the article you provided, Cosell didn't mention Manuel at all; except indirectly by saying that Nassib was his favorite QB. He also said that none of the QBs in the 2013 draft were the same quality prospects as Tannehill. In the written portion of the article, he didn't mention Manuel at all either. The article's final sentence--the one you seem to be hanging your hat on--states that Mike Mayock had Manuel rated as one of his top-three QBs. Mike Mayock does not speak for Greg Cosell. The article I quoted states the following: 1) From the text portion: "Cosell labeled the USC passer [barkley] a fourth-round talent" 2) From 0:35 of the video: "I wouldn't put him [Manuel] past Barkley at this point." If Cosell considered Barkley a fourth round talent, and wasn't willing to give Manuel a higher rating than Barkley, then it's clear Cosell had Manuel rated a fourth round talent or lower. Beerball: > Either get back on topic or not. Sorry. I didn't see this until after I'd written my post. I will make no further statements about Manuel in this thread. To return to topic: I think that Fitz may have seen himself as a starting quality QB. When the Bills asked him to take a pay cut and a backup role, it probably came as a surprise. Most people looking objectively at him would feel he's a backup. But people aren't always objective when evaluating themselves. The fact that Fitz is no different than the average person in that respect doesn't make him a bad guy, or a less-than-valuable member of the community. It just means he's not perfect. Edited November 15, 2013 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Thanks for the link. In the video portion of the article you provided, Cosell didn't mention Manuel at all; except indirectly by saying that Nassib was his favorite QB. He also said that none of the QBs in the 2013 draft were the same quality prospects as Tannehill. In the written portion of the article, he didn't mention Manuel at all either. The article's final sentence--the one you seem to be hanging your hat on--states that Mike Mayock had Manuel rated as one of his top-three QBs. Mike Mayock does not speak for Greg Cosell. The article I quoted states the following: 1) From the text portion: "Cosell labeled the USC passer [barkley] a fourth-round talent" 2) From 0:35 of the video: "I wouldn't put him [Manuel] past Barkley at this point." If Cosell considered Barkley a fourth round talent, and wasn't willing to give Manuel a higher rating than Barkley, then it's clear Cosell had Manuel rated a fourth round talent or lower. The NFL front offices that employ actual scouting departments do not care about or consult the "draft experts" on ESPN, etc. on who they should draft for their specific system, scheme and organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Thanks for the link. In the video portion of the article you provided, Cosell didn't mention Manuel at all; except indirectly by saying that Nassib was his favorite QB. He also said that none of the QBs in the 2013 draft were the same quality prospects as Tannehill. In the written portion of the article, he didn't mention Manuel at all either. The article's final sentence--the one you seem to be hanging your hat on--states that Mike Mayock had Manuel rated as one of his top-three QBs. Mike Mayock does not speak for Greg Cosell. The article I quoted states the following: 1) From the text portion: "Cosell labeled the USC passer [barkley] a fourth-round talent" 2) From 0:35 of the video: "I wouldn't put him [Manuel] past Barkley at this point." If Cosell considered Barkley a fourth round talent, and wasn't willing to give Manuel a higher rating than Barkley, then it's clear Cosell had Manuel rated a fourth round talent or lower. Beerball: > Either get back on topic or not. Sorry. I didn't see this until after I'd written my post. I will make no further statements about Manuel in this thread. To return to topic: I think that Fitz may have seen himself as a starting quality QB. When the Bills asked him to take a pay cut and a backup role, it probably came as a surprise. Most people looking objectively at him would feel he's a backup. But people aren't always objective when evaluating themselves. The fact that Fitz is no different than the average person in that respect doesn't make him a bad guy, or a less-than-valuable member of the community. It just means he's not perfect. No hat hanging here. And no hat hanging is necessary. Your paragon of NFL QB evaluation deemed Ryan Nassib as the BEST QB in the draft. Nothing that comes after that, and I mean NOTHING, has any credibility what so ever. Never mind your blatant disregard for any OTHER opinions out there concerning EJ Manuel. As soon as you found one that adhered to your philosophy, you grabbed it and ran with it. I might even say you found one to "hang you hat on." We get it, EJ is a bust. I see no need for you to continue expounding on the matter of EJ Manuel at all now that you know that. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Fitzpatrick had a good night against the Colts. 22 for 28, 228 yards, 1 Td No INT. He worked the short passing game very well. Only deep ball was on their last offensive play, 42 yard down the middle. Fitz is not the best nor the worst. He is a middle of the pack QB who works best in a team in the short passing game. No hate here for him. I am happy for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) The NFL front offices that employ actual scouting departments do not care about or consult the "draft experts" on ESPN, etc. on who they should draft for their specific system, scheme and organization. Your post sounds convincing. But look at the actual track record of those NFL front offices. After Fitz had a few good games, the Bills rewarded him with a shiny new contract; which paid him as though he was the long-term answer at QB. He hadn't fixed the accuracy issues which had plagued him his whole career. Instead, Gailey had designed an offense which allowed the Bills to largely mask Fitz's innate inaccuracy. That offense was great while it worked. But eventually--starting with the Bengals game--defensive coordinators figured out how to take away what Gailey wanted the offense to do; thereby exposing Fitz and his lack of accuracy. This is not me engaging in 20/20 hindsight. During Fitz's good streak, I pointed out that his lack of accuracy had not been fixed. I also pointed out that the Bills were engaged in an experiment, to see if Gailey could design an offense which could mask a QB's lack of great accuracy even after defensive coordinators had figured it out. Nix extended Fitz after the new offense had been revealed, but before defensive coordinators had had very much time to figure it out. The Bills are not alone in this kind of poor decision-making. It's fairly common for GMs to make decisions which fans readily identify as mistakes: Blaine Gabbert, Tim Tebow, Jamarcus Russell, etc. To act as though even the worst-run five or ten NFL teams have sophisticated, crystal ball-like evaluation mechanisms which make mere mortals pale in comparison is to completely ignore the results those front offices produce. Edited November 15, 2013 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's the thing though-- he didn't ditch us, we ditched him. Buddy was like, "Look, thanks for trying, but you clearly are not the answer, even though I told everyone you were. So, please accept this demotion, where you may be able to compete for a back-up job (assuming the new coach likes you--and you'll have to prove yourself to him, of course-- and assuming you can get over the awkwardness of going from team leader to scrub). While you're at it, please tear up that big contract we gave you last year, so we can give you almost no guaranteed money." Any sane person would have done what Fitz did and basically get out of dodge. Exactly. Your paragon of NFL QB evaluation deemed Ryan Nassib as the BEST QB in the draft How do you know he isn't? Guy hasn't stepped onto the field yet. I'm not a fan of Nassib, but the other QBs aren't exactly lighting it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Your post sounds convincing. But look at the actual track record of those NFL front offices. After Fitz had a few good games, the Bills rewarded him with a shiny new contract; which paid him as though he was the long-term answer at QB. He hadn't fixed the accuracy issues which had plagued him his whole career. Instead, Gailey had designed an offense which allowed the Bills to largely mask Fitz's innate inaccuracy. That offense was great while it worked. But eventually--starting with the Bengals game--defensive coordinators figured out how to take away what Gailey wanted the offense to do; thereby exposing Fitz and his lack of accuracy. There's a lot that's wrong with this paragraph. Fitz's "few good games" were the equivalent of almost a full season. The "shiny new contract" was essentially two 3-year deals that would pay him mid-level starter's money and bridge the gap until they drafted and developed their franchise guy; the Bills never believed Fitz was a long-term answer. It is unfortunate that the timing of Fitz's regression came shortly after the new deal, but even then his performance was not significantly worse than what he was doing before; he simply made more mistakes in crunch time and the team around him (particularly the defense) couldn't keep anyone out of the endzone. Make no mistake, Fitz would have been the perfect backup for Buffalo this year had Buddy not embarrassed himself on the prank call with Tampa's GM. That call hurt Fitz's pride and he (rightfully) decided he didn't want to stay in Buffalo. Put Fitz at QB for the Bills' first 10 games this year, and I'd bet a lot of $$ their record would be 6-4 or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Exactly. How do you know he isn't? Guy hasn't stepped onto the field yet. I'm not a fan of Nassib, but the other QBs aren't exactly lighting it up. Spare me. GO BILLS!!! Edited November 15, 2013 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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