peterpan Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Id take him or Nassib with our first pick. We aren't going to have a shot at a good QB with our second, just look at the other QB needy teams in front of us. year after year it seems teams are drafting QBs earlier and earlier because, well, they are worth it. This evauluation is from watching the youtube clips (not highlights) of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Can you reference a single losing MAC QB that had any success in the NFL? I sure as heck can't. But the same argument can be made in reverse. We can all reference winning record QB's from major conferences that haven't had success in the NFL. It's about breaking down the individual, not the history of MAC QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hater Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 He is rated more like a 4th to 5th round pick 9th best QB prospect overall, I'd pass on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBUffalo Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Not at all. Even when I agree with your opinions, you convey them with such a smug sense of superiority that I just nod my head. Maybe it's just my opinion, but I can't imagine others not seeing it in the same light. It has nothing to do with what you're actually saying. Just how you say it. Fool. Lol.. It's a bit of a habbit of mine. As I've stated before, I see no reason to say things like "in my opinion" "in my mind" "I think" etc... Those are implied. Of course it's my opinion, I'm the one typing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The film I've watched is just what is available on Youtube, like the individual game breakdowns they have for each QB prospect. I am by no means a scout. This is all just general observation. Ah...ok...I was going to ask where you got your All-22 from...been looking for a way to access it from college games without paying out the wazoo...only reason I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) But the same argument can be made in reverse. We can all reference winning record QB's from major conferences that haven't had success in the NFL. It's about breaking down the individual, not the history of MAC QB's. Way to take it to an unrealistic extreme. There's a saying out there, the greatest predictor of future success is past occurences and, to my knowledge at least, there has not been a single successful MAC QB from a losing team that has had any legitimate success in the NFL. An elite NFL QB needs to be a leader, a motivator, an example setter. If he's on a crappy team then he needs to motivate them to get to the gym more, practice harder, execute better. He needs to pump them up for the game (and during the game) to get them to play at the highest level possible. If you don't posses the skill set and/or leadership skills to create a winner in the MAC, I'm not going to put an NFL franchise on your shoulders. Could he be the first? Sure, why not. However, with his record, stats, and competition faced, I just don't see it happening. Let's not get enamored simply by arm strength or some mobility. Those are just a couple of pieces of the franchise QB puzzle. Edited January 14, 2013 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 i agree with other posters w/ respect to a concern on his W/L record especially considering the conference he played in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 It's a bit of a habbit of mine. As I've stated before, I see no reason to say things like "in my opinion" "in my mind" "I think" etc... Those are implied. Of course it's my opinion, I'm the one typing it. Its cool. Welcome to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm glad this thread popped up. I've been talking about him for months now. Would be thrilled if we took him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Way to take it to an unrealistic extreme. There's a saying out there, the greatest predictor of future success is past occurences and, to my knowledge at least, there has not been a single successful MAC QB from a losing team that has had any legitimate success in the NFL. An elite NFL QB needs to be a leader, a motivator, an example setter. If he's on a crappy team then he needs to motivate them to get to the gym more, practice harder, execute better. He needs to pump them up for the game (and during the game) to get them to play at the highest level possible. If you don't posses the skill set and/or leadership skills to create a winner in the MAC, I'm not going to put an NFL franchise on your shoulders. Could he be the first? Sure, why not. However, with his record, stats, and competition faced, I just don't see it happening. Let's not get enamored simply by arm strength or some mobility. Those are just a couple of pieces of the franchise QB puzzle. I think you make valid points towards an argument against him, but I just think the broad stroke of looking at history of MAC QB's is shortsided. IMO, saying his team didn't win, so he can't play in the NFL is over simplifying the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Miami is in Flordia, not Ohio to be legit....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBuffaloBills Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Way to take it to an unrealistic extreme. There's a saying out there, the greatest predictor of future success is past occurences and, to my knowledge at least, there has not been a single successful MAC QB from a losing team that has had any legitimate success in the NFL. An elite NFL QB needs to be a leader, a motivator, an example setter. If he's on a crappy team then he needs to motivate them to get to the gym more, practice harder, execute better. He needs to pump them up for the game (and during the game) to get them to play at the highest level possible. If you don't posses the skill set and/or leadership skills to create a winner in the MAC, I'm not going to put an NFL franchise on your shoulders. Could he be the first? Sure, why not. However, with his record, stats, and competition faced, I just don't see it happening. Let's not get enamored simply by arm strength or some mobility. Those are just a couple of pieces of the franchise QB puzzle. I agree with the past predicting the future. But still, put the number 1 ranked QB in this draft, Geno Smith, as QB for Miami and I highly doubt he could turn that team around. Being a leader at QB can only take you so far. He's not miraculously going to make his WR's become superstars. If you're team is lead by Joe Montana but he has a terrible O-line and WR, he's not going to take that team far into the playoffs. To dismiss a QB as a prospect simply because of his conference and W-L record is silly. The majority of QB's in each draft class lack one or two of the following: Size, arm strength, mobility, proper mechanics, pocket presence, or accuracy. Dysert has a check in all of those boxes. At the 2:56 mark of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmMa5Nv2zoI, Dysert does a roll out and chucks the ball 45 yards in the air while on the move and hits his WR right on the money, but he drops it. He makes a bunch of other plays in that video, but if you say you're not impressed by that, then you're just lying to yourself. I don't even know if Fitz can throw it that far, let alone accurately and on the run. I'm not saying Dysert can step in right away and become the next Jim Kelly, but if coached well along with a good supporting cast, Dysert has all the tools to be a successful QB in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) I think you make valid points towards an argument against him, but I just think the broad stroke of looking at history of MAC QB's is shortsided. IMO, saying his team didn't win, so he can't play in the NFL is over simplifying the process. Completely agree. In the earlier post in the thread I also discussed his stats and performances. As one who is always put off by the arguments of "I hate this QB because he went to USC and I hate USC QBs" etc., I completely understand what you're saying. That was not my sole argument against him but I do think it holds a lot of water. Edited January 14, 2013 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'd take him as the 2nd QB we draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'd take him as the 2nd QB we draft. THIS. Take him two rounds after we take our first QB in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBuffaloBills Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 If memory serves, Loseman was credited with this "talent." So you're saying we shouldn't consider a QB that possesses any of the traits listed above in fear of him ending up like Losman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I will go out on a limb and say that I really like what I saw on film from this kid. If the management wants to go the Kapernick route, this is not your QB. However, a QB with a great grasp of the game, above average arm strength, adequate release, who can hit all the throws and will occasionally pick up a 1st down with his feet... this kid has the tools. What really stood out on all the film I looked at was how much he stood out with how piss-poor the Miami Ohio offense looked around him. Very average to below-average receivers who dropped balls, ran terrible routes, and none seemed to have any breakaway speed even if he hit them 10-15 yards behind the coverage. No running game to speak of, and god forbid the kid held onto the ball for over 2 seconds because their left tackle rarely could hold a block to allow anything downfield to develop. The kid must be pretty durable, because he took a good pounding over his college career and all I saw was that he had a lacerated spleen at one point - like I said, he took a pounding. What really stands out was his quick decision-making. This is a kid that with a bit of coaching up could become a QB that could call his own plays after making pre-snap reads. If the current Bills brass want someone that can run an up-tempo offense and call the correct pre-snap audibles, he may very well fit that bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) I agree with the past predicting the future. But still, put the number 1 ranked QB in this draft, Geno Smith, as QB for Miami and I highly doubt he could turn that team around. Being a leader at QB can only take you so far. He's not miraculously going to make his WR's become superstars. If you're team is lead by Joe Montana but he has a terrible O-line and WR, he's not going to take that team far into the playoffs. To dismiss a QB as a prospect simply because of his conference and W-L record is silly. The majority of QB's in each draft class lack one or two of the following: Size, arm strength, mobility, proper mechanics, pocket presence, or accuracy. Dysert has a check in all of those boxes. At the 2:56 mark of this video , Dysert does a roll out and chucks the ball 45 yards in the air while on the move and hits his WR right on the money, but he drops it. He makes a bunch of other plays in that video, but if you say you're not impressed by that, then you're just lying to yourself. I don't even know if Fitz can throw it that far, let alone accurately and on the run. I'm not saying Dysert can step in right away and become the next Jim Kelly, but if coached well along with a good supporting cast, Dysert has all the tools to be a successful QB in the NFL. I watched that video and I see a first read, dink and dunk college system QB. He seems very good at it, but so was Blaine Gabbert. I worry that the Bills would be hanging their hats on a guy with a "low ceiling". The question I have is if he could ever be any better than an Andy Dalton. I see this guy and that's the type of ceiling I see. If the Bills want to win a championship then they will have to face Brees, Rodgers, Manning, RGIII, Newton or Kaepernick in the Superbowl. I would much rather the Bills pick a guy with a "high ceiling" like EJ Manuel. He has the Newton/Kaepernick "high ceiling" skills we need to look for when we draft our elite QB of the future. We need to roll the dice on greatness, not "he's good enough to get you in the playoffs". I look at guys like Dysert and Nassib and worry that they simply just don't have the "high ceiling" needed to get the Bills a Superbowl win. Edited January 14, 2013 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Kurt Warner sat out his first 3 seasons at the University of Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls, a Division I-AA. He was overlooked by division 1 programs. He did have a winning record his senior year....8-3 I think ? He went undrafted in 94. The Pack took a shot at him and cut him in a few short weeks. I'd say he turned out pretty good. Just sayin. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBUffalo Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Kurt Warner sat out his first 3 seasons at the University of Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls, a Division I-AA. He was overlooked by division 1 programs. He did have a winning record his senior year....8-3 I think ? He went undrafted in 94. The Pack took a shot at him and cut him in a few short weeks. I'd say he turned out pretty good. Just sayin. jb Could you elaborate more on where you see the connection? I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I watch alot of MAC football. Dysert has good size and range. I do think he has upside to develop. He is not NFL ready. From what I saw in his last game against Ball State he needs the get with a good QB coach and work on reading defenses. The kids is worth a look in the late 2nd or early 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 His record at Miami (OH) should be part of the equation, but you can't get lost in it. Joe Flacco's record against D2 competition was 13-9, and he was a man amongst boys. He's doing alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Could you elaborate more on where you see the connection? I don't see it. No real connection. Just sayin that if Kurt's situation were current (ie... just graduating from college now) that a lot of folks here would say...no thanks, just like Dysert and other qb's mentioned on this board. Understandably so. Sometimes there is a diamond in the rough ......we just gotta fine em. Maybe its Zac.....maybe not. Who knows? Lets hope the staff can figure this out. We've got a real mess at the position. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I would not mind taking Dysert in the 2nd round. The kid is a player. With that being said, why is everybody on this board down on Barkley? I mean what more did you want this kid to do in college? 4 year starter, thrown for over 12K yards in his career, his stats got better every year, can win on the road as his win in one of the toughest venues in all of college football Autzen Stadium against a top 5 Oregon team proved in his junior year, had a QBR of 148 for his career, threw for 148 TDS & had a 64% career completion %. Same with Murray. I know he is not coming out until next year but he has done it for as a 3 year starter. If Barkley is there @ 8 I would not be disappointed at all to see his name called. & before anybody says that USC was not very good this year record wise, their defense stunk & cost them in most of their losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I watched that video and I see a first read, dink and dunk college system QB. He seems very good at it, but so was Blaine Gabbert. I worry that the Bills would be hanging their hats on a guy with a "low ceiling". The question I have is if he could ever be any better than an Andy Dalton. I see this guy and that's the type of ceiling I see. If the Bills want to win a championship then they will have to face Brees, Rodgers, Manning, RGIII, Newton or Kaepernick in the Superbowl. I would much rather the Bills pick a guy with a "high ceiling" like EJ Manuel. He has the Newton/Kaepernick "high ceiling" skills we need to look for when we draft our elite QB of the future. We need to roll the dice on greatness, not "he's good enough to get you in the playoffs". I look at guys like Dysert and Nassib and worry that they simply just don't have the "high ceiling" needed to get the Bills a Superbowl win. I would not necessarily lump Dysert and Nassib together as I think Dysert is considerably more athletic. But I do agree that Manuel is a physical freak in the Griffin- Kaepernick mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Miami is in Flordia, not Ohio to be legit....... My alma mater was a university before Florida was a state. Just sayin'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) To me he's the only QB coming out with the total package in regards to skill sets. He's got excellent footwork and throwing mechanics (near perfect), good pocket presence, not a runner but can scramble, good size, experienced, quick release, and a very strong arm. He's got that quick flick strong throw. He takes too many risks probably from a little over confidence in his arm strength or maybe he's just trying to make something happen on a team that needs him to do that. I think that can be coached, where many of the other things mentioned really can't. His pro day is March 21st and I'm sure the Bills will be there. I'd take him in the second round and wouldn't blink. I've debated a few folks around TBD as I understand I'm in the minority. Beyond my eyes (which do decieve me often), I have a gut feeling about this kid. I think with a mentoring type of coach like Marrone and with his skills he's the kind of QB we're looking for. If you haven't familiarized yourself with Zac check him out. Below is a highlight link, but I'd recommend the ohio state game and boise game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlt66vdmIrQ Edited March 18, 2013 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think he has the best mechanics of the bunch. Just my $0.02, but if you've been hucking a ball at a high level for 15 years (as just about every NFL QB prospect has), mechanics can and will be the deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 He's definitely not the "talked" about QB prospect this year, but in a class with no standouts he' my favorite QB in this years draft. I think there's a small contingent of fans who are well aware of Dysert, especially after John Murphy had Josh Norris on a couple of times from Rotoworld.com and he gave Dysert some serious props. I recall him saying that Dysert was a top 40 prospect, but this was back in early November. When it comes to judging a QB, I place a huge emphasis on pocket presence, and the ability to make plays in a muddies pocket. I think Dysert is the best of the nuch in this years class at doing just that. I'm also big on accuracy, and hile his accuracy isn't off the charts (which I though Andrew Luck's was last year) I think it is decent. I'm wondering if Josh Norris still thinks he'll go in the top 40. I believe there's a better than 50/50 shot he'll be there for our 2nd round pick, and would love to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Dysert scares me a bit for one big reason. When you watch him try to drive the ball on both inside and outside routes (i.e. those that require zip and not touch), he really has to torque his body to get that mustard on it, which causes him to lose accuracy. It didn't hurt him a lot in college, but in the NFL, when the pace of the game is magnified significantly, he's going to get a lot of those throws batted and/or picked off. To me, he's a guy that is probably a great NFL backup. He can come in and win a few games for you, but if you've got to rely on him to get you through a whole season, he's not your guy. But that's just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haplo848 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 He reminds me of Blaine Gabbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Dysert scares me a bit for one big reason. When you watch him try to drive the ball on both inside and outside routes (i.e. those that require zip and not touch), he really has to torque his body to get that mustard on it, which causes him to lose accuracy. It didn't hurt him a lot in college, but in the NFL, when the pace of the game is magnified significantly, he's going to get a lot of those throws batted and/or picked off. To me, he's a guy that is probably a great NFL backup. He can come in and win a few games for you, but if you've got to rely on him to get you through a whole season, he's not your guy. But that's just my opinion... I've got to disagree with you here on the arm strength. I see very little torque needed or used. He's got a quick release with natural speed on the ball. He stays on top of the ball where you see a guy like Landry leading with his elbow either to much or too long. Also if you look at Geno he has to crouch down to generate velocity, to me Dysert can generate the velocity and still stand up. The evidence of what I'm talking about his he still throws very hard on the run where Torque works against you. Edited March 18, 2013 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RK_BillsFan Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would take him in the third or with a third pick if we traded back. I have this weird dream that the Bills go bat **** crazy, grab 2 big fast WRs and then find a QB that can get the ball down field. I would not mind picking him up as long as it's not our first 2 picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I like the kid. Don't think I'd take him in the second though. He doesn't seem to be talked about all that much, so maybe he'll still be around later. Maybe the sleeper QB of the draft ? Could well be. I'd be real happy if they took him. In a later round than 2....after drafting EJ, Matt, Matt, or one of the other prospects. Or, take a FA, and draft Zach. That'd work too I suppose. You can't overlook a kid like this in a year with "questionable" QB talent. Frankly I hope Zach has a horrible pro day. Maybe then we could grab him in the 5th ! LOL ! jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 All your pros/cons indicate Losman Version 2.0 (especially the inaccuracy part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 All your pros/cons indicate Losman Version 2.0 (especially the inaccuracy part). He's not like Losman at all except for maybe arm strength and mobility. But his footwork is light years better and more importantly his pocket presence. I don't think he's inaccurate either. His receivers drop a lot and I mean a lot of balls. He takes gambles so maybe there's another JP similarity, but I don't think I'd draw any conclusions from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RK_BillsFan Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 From what i read, he was on a team with poor receivers and a poor O-Line, and had to be shifty and try to make things happen. I wonder what it will be like if he has at least a semi decent Line to block for him. I'd say something about receivers but we only have 1..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's in My Blood Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 He reminds me of Blaine Gabbert Care to elaborate? Or is it just the hair? Here's a thought, what if we took Patterson from UT @ 8, then traded back into the mid first round and snagged Dysert? That is of course if Geno and Barkley are off the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Care to elaborate? Or is it just the hair? Here's a thought, what if we took Patterson from UT @ 8, then traded back into the mid first round and snagged Dysert? That is of course if Geno and Barkley are off the board. The thought of us trading back into the 1st to take Dysert makes me want to vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The thought of us trading back into the 1st to take Dysert makes me want to vomit. Yep. Totally unnecessary. And didn't Buddy say there are TWO quarterbacks to build a franchise around?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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