As good as the replacement refs were in Week 1

[KD in CA]

In the TB/NYG game, said reciever took two steps while securing the ball, then got hit, fumbling the ball out of bounds.

Which by rule is an incomplete pass.

[NoSaint]

 

Exactly right on all counts. This situation reminds me of the baseball umps (althought those guys actually resigned) in 1999 who thought that new umps would be a disaster and force MLB to give in to their demands. It didn't happen then and it's not going to happen now.

 

 

IMO it's not any worse than normal. People are complaining about missed holding calls and questionable PI calls. What a joke. I haven't seen an NFL game in 30 years that didn't include those things.

 

Is your argument that these refs are making ZERO rookie mistakes? It seems unlikely to me. I'd guess theres got to be soooome learning curve. I've seen some very good games, and some very bad ones. I think there are a few extra blown calls, but not enough to ruin the game. I'll be the first to point out that the old crews messed stuff up too, but it's not as crisp as it needs to be right now.

 

They do have to find their feet though and start calling more confidently. That is a big deal.

[KOKBILLS]

They have trouble spotting the ball and players seems to be taking a few more shots at each other than they normally would.

 

This is the biggest difference I've noticed...It's definitely more chippy...And there are little things going unnoticed, maybe even intentionally...But overall I'm kind of surprised they have been this good...Not to say they are good...Just saying I thought this would be a disaster...

[Fezmid]

I thought intentional grpunding was a loss of down?? When KC had that called against them ,there was no down loss.

They did lose a down -- the ref SAID it was first down after the play, but the down markers clearly showed 2nd down, so they just announced it wrong. They did miss the call though -- it should've been a 10 yard penalty, but they only marked it back 8 yards (because that's where the grounding occurred). It's only marked at the spot of the foul if it's past the 10 yard mark. Minor issue.

 

And to those complaining about the NYG/TB game -- the refs got that one right too. New rule as of a couple of years ago, but if you get touched, fall to the ground, and don't hang on - it's incomplete.

[KD in CA]

Is your argument that these refs are making ZERO rookie mistakes? It seems unlikely to me. I'd guess theres got to be soooome learning curve. I've seen some very good games, and some very bad ones. I think there are a few extra blown calls, but not enough to ruin the game. I'll be the first to point out that the old crews messed stuff up too, but it's not as crisp as it needs to be right now.

 

They do have to find their feet though and start calling more confidently. That is a big deal.

I'm saying I haven't seen any increase in substantive mistakes. Yes, they're a little sloppy; they take a little longer, they require a conference more often, they make minor mistakes like a guy pointing first down in the wrong direction after a turnover, or use of incorrect vernacular. So as you suggest, less "crisp", but basically all minor details. I don't think those things are a big deal at all.

[Dorkington]

The replacements aren't great by any stretch, but I think anyone looking at the normal refs and thinking they were perfect needs to remove their rose colored glasses.

 

We have people on the field, watching 22 players smack into each other, errors are going to happen. I imagine, as the year goes on, the refs will continue to improve and the normal refs will have less and less leverage.

[walstib]

It seems to me that (as was mentioned up thread) the games have become chippier and some after the whistle stuff isn't being flagged at all. As a perfect example, during the [very physical] Lions v 49'ers game last night, in the 4th quarter Alex Smith escaped the pocket for a gain, slid feet first (hook-slide = giving himself up) and got hit in the head with a forearm by a diving Lion. The Lion did not leave his feet until Smith was horizontal and sliding. The impact to his head was solid enough that it had Smith bleeding from the nose for the rest of the game...No flag. That's not the type of call that is typically missed by the regular refs.

[Fan in San Diego]

Terrible phantom pass interference call in the jets steelers game a few minutes ago.

 

Yes I saw that too. Really bad.

[Fezmid]

Terrible phantom pass interference call in the jets steelers game a few minutes ago.

Good thing that never happens in real games *cough* just give it to 'em *cough*

[Maybe Someday]

the claim was hit to the head however replay shows it was questionable. Both radio and TV guys were suprised about flag since no one was aware of the flag till well after player was being helped up.

When I first heard it on the TV broadcast, it sounded to me as if the play was reviewed and then the penalty was called. We had some people over to watch the game and it was a little noisy so I just assumed that I didn’t hear it correctly because I didn’t think you could go back to review a hit to see if it was legal. Or maybe the commentators just never mentioned it. I certainly didn’t see a flag thrown when the play happened or even immediately afterwards. I may have to go check the tape to see that play again.

[HeHateMe]

It seems to me that (as was mentioned up thread) the games have become chippier and some after the whistle stuff isn't being flagged at all. As a perfect example, during the [very physical] Lions v 49'ers game last night, in the 4th quarter Alex Smith escaped the pocket for a gain, slid feet first (hook-slide = giving himself up) and got hit in the head with a forearm by a diving Lion. The Lion did not leave his feet until Smith was horizontal and sliding. The impact to his head was solid enough that it had Smith bleeding from the nose for the rest of the game...No flag. That's not the type of call that is typically missed by the regular refs.

 

This play came to my mind as well, I don't know how the Refs don't see that..

 

For one, he is a ball carrier in the open field. Second, he is the freaking QB...

 

The only positive that I have noticed is the lack of super team calls... teams like NE aren't getting every critical call in a tight game.

Edited September 17, 2012 by kobe808lak

[muffmonster]

When I first heard it on the TV broadcast, it sounded to me as if the play was reviewed and then the penalty was called. We had some people over to watch the game and it was a little noisy so I just assumed that I didn’t hear it correctly because I didn’t think you could go back to review a hit to see if it was legal. Or maybe the commentators just never mentioned it. I certainly didn’t see a flag thrown when the play happened or even immediately afterwards. I may have to go check the tape to see that play again.

 

That is why I was asking. I haven't reviewed the game, but being there live I did not see any flags, nor did anyone around me. It appeared after a review or something they came out and called for the penalty, which I did not think was even possible.

[Brand J]

at the game on one of cj runs he ran outta bounds not tackled never hit the ground stayed on his feet but the clock kept running

 

Clock only stops when players run out of bounds in certain situations. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think it's the last 2 mins of the first half and the last five minutes of the second half.

[chris heff]

 

 

I believe if there was an illegal hit on the injured player, there isn't a timeout called.

 

And the TB-NYG call was awful. Changed the outcome of that game completely.

 

 

Former head of officials Mike Pereriaalso said he would have called it incomplete. Not that it means anything.

[Astrobot]

Watching a lot of other NFL games not just the Bills does anyone feel that the Replacement Refs are letting a little more go as far as pass interference, holding, and generally letting the game get a little more physical esp compared to the last two seasons where it seems like they have been trying to limit the physical nature of defense.

 

Although they are still protecting the QB's and calling head hit but I feel like the game is a little more loosely called. Anyone else feel this watching these games.

Agree, especially Pass Interference and holding.

[TC in St. Louis]

I know that some in here think it's not a problem. I disagree. It's a crapshoot out there. It's like a box of chocolates. You don't know what you're gonna get. But there's a pretty good chance it won't be very good. The media is all over this. Get the real blind men back.

[Simon]

I'm saying I haven't seen any increase in substantive mistakes. Yes, they're a little sloppy; they take a little longer, they require a conference more often, . So as you suggest, less "crisp", but basically all minor details. I don't think those things are a big deal at all.

I doubt they're a big deal to the players either, but to me as a viewer they are becoming annoying. I love the game of football but I have absolutely zero interest in watching guys standing around trying to figure out what they're supposed to be doing or shutting a game down for 3+ minutes to review multiple spurious calls.

I'll deal with it in the short term as they are batting .500 right now ( 1 good week, 1 very bad week) and I'm not so spoiled I can't tolerate it; but I know myself well enough that if it continues in the vein that it did this week, there's no doubt in my mind that I'll be watching less ball because of it. I can't be the only one that feels that way and if the league recognizes that fact they'd be wise to be more willing to move a little in their ongoing negotiations with the experienced officials.

 

 

 

^{The people complaining about the replacements are the same who moan about the "real refs" every week. Little credibility here.}

 

So even though I clearly stated in my title that the refs were good in Week 1, I have little credibility because I moan about the refs every week?

Since I've been posting here for well over 10 years, there's probably about 200 regular season games that have occurred in that time. Which according to you mean's that you should be able to find 200 posts of me moaning about officiating. Being that you are a poster with zero credibility who never manages to contribute anything to this forum but rude commentary and insults towards others, I certainly don't expect you to be willing to find the 200 examples of my moaning which you claim to exist. So instead I will make it much easier for you; how about if you go and find just one of the 200 examples of me moaning about officiating every week. If you can do so, then fine. If you cannot, then shut your ignorant mouth and keep your repetitive, insulting garbage out of my threads.

[John in Jax]

Really don't see much difference between the replacement refs & the regular refs. Holding, Pass Interference, Out of Bounds Hits, "Late" hits, & Roughing the QB have ALWAYS been very subjective......and they continue to be so with these replacement guys. I have always contended that Holding could be called on EVERY play, if the refs wanted to call it. Even with the regular refs, Pass Interference has ALWAYS been called VERY inconsistently from game to game, week to week.

[NoSaint]

And the refs just lost control again

 

Did one just get hit in that fight?

 

That's a BIG mistake by the officials and goes back to control, respect and confidence issues I was speaking about earlier. Can't control guys when your busy figuring out the calls.

 

And I still think that was Denver's ball. How'd Atlanta get it?!?

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[Captain Hindsight]

They look pretty bad tonight. I dont envy being in their shoes, but this is looking ugly

[NoSaint]

Just keeps spiraling.

[thebug]

The refs are making this game hard to watch......

[John in Jax]

Yeah, maybe Manning can blame the refs for his 3 pics....and Denver's D can blame them for their sieve-like play.

[Simon]

And the refs just lost control again

 

Did one just get hit in that fight?

 

That's a BIG mistake by the officials and goes back to control, respect and confidence issues I was speaking about earlier. Can't control guys when your busy figuring out the calls.

 

And I still think that was Denver's ball. How'd Atlanta get it?!?

Wow, didn't think it would happen that quick.

During that 10 minutes of football free buffoonery I turned it off and never even bothered turning it back on.

It was like watching two frathouses play each other with a sorority calling the game.

[NoSaint]

Honest question: is it me or are there several times the normal amount of WRs getting called for false starts?

 

Seems like a ton. Maybe just the games I've seen?

[Bud Adams]

Did one just get hit in that fight?

 

I swear I saw the same thing -- I thought to myself, "ejection and suspension."

 

BA

[John in Jax]

Pretty good rant from espn's website.

 

 

Dear NFL Players, Coaches and Fans,

 

Shut up.

 

Stop your whining, you sad losers. We are replacement refs, but you are full-time pathetic.

 

Many of us work during the week as schoolteachers in classrooms full of teenagers. Yet after two weekends with you people, we see the weekdays as our opportunity to spend time with mature and rational people.

 

So we have gotten some calls wrong? Embarrassed ourselves here and there? Oh, wow! What a travesty! This has never happened before in an NFL game with the fancy regular officials, right?

 

Show us the one game -- and there are 31 to choose from so far -- where we affected the outcome. While you rack your brain to come up with nothing, let us point to this game when Ed Hochuli single-handedly won a game for Jay Cutler and the Broncos against the Chargers. Yes, your beloved and muscled patron saint of referees enabled Jay Cutler to win a big game. That’s almost impossible, but he did it.

 

Yet we have guys like Joe Flacco saying this garbage after games (saying it because they lost and they’re sad): “The [Eagles] were all over our guys and not in a very legal way sometimes." And that we are “affecting the integrity of the game.” Flacco also laughed at how one of us made a call: "He didn't even throw a flag. He threw a blue beanie and then put his hands in the air -- like offensive pass interference -- I mean, come on."

 

Ha-ha-ha. It’s funny because Flacco is criticizing how someone else throws. OK, fine. It was a mistake to throw the blue beanie and not the flag that one time. Just like how you made a mistake completely missing your receivers 20 times. 20 > 1. At least the official was intending for his thrown object to land on the ground.

 

Are we as dumb as Redskins receiver Josh Morgan was taking his team out of field goal range with a stupid personal foul penalty? Not even close.

 

Did you see Arizona Cardinals running back Ryan Williams fumble the ball late in their game against the Patriots when his only job was to not fumble? And then did you see Stephen Gostkowski blow a game-winning field goal right after that? We haven’t done one thing half as incompetent in two weeks as two players did a few minutes apart in one game.

 

Jim Harbaugh has made a hobby out of screaming at us, but he didn’t even know what down it was during one series against the Lions. Jim, we’re sure you’re insanely screaming some great points at us, but it’s pointless to debate with someone who doesn’t know basic facts.

 

Do we sometimes misspeak when making a call or mess up with the public address system? Yep. But this is our second week on the job. Andy Reid has been coaching for 14 years and still doesn’t understand how timeouts or challenges work. Advantage: replacement refs.

 

We usually are officiating games played by middle school and high school kids. Here’s a news flash for you: The transition from them to you hasn’t been that great. You’re bigger and stronger and faster, sure. But we’re managing. Again: We haven’t affected the outcome of a single game. That’s pretty good for a weekend job we got just to make some money to put in an above-ground pool in the backyard. And we’re on TV now, which has made us pretty much the most famous people in our towns.

 

So shut up. Worry about what you’re doing and let us keep doing our part-time temporary job. You guys are full-time professionals and you screw up way more than we do. If you have lost a game, it’s on you. Not us.

 

Think about it: If you guys are so perfect and infallible, why do officials even exist?

 

See you again next week. We can’t wait to see how you all mess up this time.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Replacements

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Yeah, maybe Manning can blame the refs for his 3 pics....and Denver's D can blame them for their sieve-like play.

 

Yup. The refs didn't play any role in the outcome of that game. There was nothing egregious I have not seen before in a football game. Refs are just being used as scapegoats because coaches and players can.

Edited September 18, 2012 by BuffaloBillsForever

[Mr. WEO]

Wow! I love that rant! Everyone who is bitching should read it and relax a bit.

 

Anyone see that clown John Fox screaming ("that's bullsh*t!") at the refs when he clearly had 12 men on the field? And then he blew his last challenge to confirm the undisputed fact that he is a total !@#$? Priceless!

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Wow! I love that rant! Everyone who is bitching should read it and relax a bit.

 

Anyone see that clown John Fox screaming ("that's bullsh*t!") at the refs when he clearly had 12 men on the field? And then he blew his last challenge to confirm the undisputed fact that he is a total !@#$? Priceless!

 

Yes, that was classic.

[NoSaint]

Wow! I love that rant! Everyone who is bitching should read it and relax a bit.

 

Anyone see that clown John Fox screaming ("that's bullsh*t!") at the refs when he clearly had 12 men on the field? And then he blew his last challenge to confirm the undisputed fact that he is a total !@#$? Priceless!

 

have you been watching? honestly, someone will get hurt if they dont straighten some stuff out fast - and very possibly a ref if they keep allowing everyone and their brother to crowd around and scream at them.

 

the nfl needs to put in a hard line rule that no one can leave the sideline (except perhaps the head coach?) and the refs need to flag some guys for getting in their faces (or last night physically touching them).

 

that is not an any given sunday situation.

 

and lost in that mess is that it shouldve been denver ball in the scrum - in what amounted to a 1 possession game. short of blowing a call on the final play (how many chances for that to happen even occur?) what would it take for someone to note that the first half of that game was HIGHLY effected by officials? delays, wrong calls, marking off an extra 6 yards on the D holding late etc.... heck, atlanta mightve run away with it more with momentum uninterrupted, or maybe they never run away if denver keeps that ball. to say they had no effect is nonsense.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[Mr. WEO]

have you been watching? honestly, someone will get hurt if they dont straighten some stuff out fast - and very possibly a ref if they keep allowing everyone and their brother to crowd around and scream at them.

 

the nfl needs to put in a hard line rule that no one can leave the sideline (except perhaps the head coach?) and the refs need to flag some guys for getting in their faces (or last night physically touching them).

 

that is not an any given sunday situation.

 

and lost in that mess is that it shouldve been denver ball in the scrum - in what amounted to a 1 possession game. short of blowing a call on the final play (how many chances for that to happen even occur?) what would it take for someone to note that the first half of that game was HIGHLY effected by officials? delays, wrong calls, marking off an extra 6 yards on the D holding late etc.... heck, atlanta mightve run away with it more with momentum uninterrupted, or maybe they never run away if denver keeps that ball. to say they had no effect is nonsense.

 

I agree the sideline stuff got out of hand. I would have ejected the Falcons player who swatted the ref. I would have flagged Fox just to shut him up.

 

As for the fumble, they ruled that the Falcons had possession. A Bronco subsequently coming up with the ball and running away from the pile is not possession. You've certainly seen that before many times.

 

The safety issue is blown out of proportion. Haven't seen an injury atrributable to the replacement refs yet. Players injure other players, nothing a ref can do except throw the flag after the fact. If a guy wants to cheap shot another, he knows he's going to get the 15 yards and does it anyway--if he's even thinking about the penalty. No evidence he will more likely take a shot because he "can get away with it".

 

If the Real refs just agree to the nice annual raise they are being offered by the NFL (are you being offered up to 11% raise every year over the next 5 years?) for this high profile, fun part time job, this problem goes away. Direct your anger at them, not the current crew trying to get it right under the worst of circumstances.

[Just Jack]

Do we sometimes misspeak when making a call or mess up with the public address system? Yep. But this is our second week on the job. Andy Reid has been coaching for 14 years and still doesn’t understand how timeouts or challenges work. Advantage: replacement refs.

 

Uh, no. This is your 6th week on the job. Remember pre-season?

[NoSaint]

 

 

I agree the sideline stuff got out of hand. I would have ejected the Falcons player who swatted the ref. I would have flagged Fox just to shut him up.

 

As for the fumble, they ruled that the Falcons had possession. A Bronco subsequently coming up with the ball and running away from the pile is not possession. You've certainly seen that before many times.

 

The safety issue is blown out of proportion. Haven't seen an injury atrributable to the replacement refs yet. Players injure other players, nothing a ref can do except throw the flag after the fact. If a guy wants to cheap shot another, he knows he's going to get the 15 yards and does it anyway--if he's even thinking about the penalty. No evidence he will more likely take a shot because he "can get away with it".

 

If the Real refs just agree to the nice annual raise they are being offered by the NFL (are you being offered up to 11% raise every year over the next 5 years?) for this high profile, fun part time job, this problem goes away. Direct your anger at them, not the current crew trying to get it right under the worst of circumstances.

 

the problem i had with the fumble was it looked clear that the player to first land on it was the same to emerge from the pile with it. thats a bit different than the typical who knows whats going on down there. a normal ref may flub that too though, you are correct. whats tough in this discussion is that are they better or worse is still a bit abstract at its core.

 

i definitely don't want to blame the replacements, as its not their fault that the nfl gave them the chance. somebody had to step up, or we had no games. this is better than nothing but i think that it will start to effect prime time ratings. when it takes minutes to sort out basic calls, and its not a game im heavily invested in... i start clicking around, and might not return. id like to think that im probably among the more dedicated nfl viewers out there, so i can only imagine what joe who doesnt like either team, but what the heck, ill peak at the game cause its football, will do.

 

safety wise, i think this week we started to see the players push the edge of what they can do. hopefully next week the league and officials bring them back in some.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[BuffaloWings]

I like how they correct there mistaken calls though. I think the only reason they correct them is because everyone gets together and say what they saw and get the correct call. The regular refs thought they were correct no matter what so they wouldn't bother to get the call right.

 

One thing I have seen is how (for the most part) they let everything play out. I wish the real refs would do this on every play...this way, the plays that are questionable calls can be played out and are more easily reversible if they need to be.

 

The problem with last night's game and the Eagles-Ravens game is how the players got a bit out of control on the field. If Goodell is watching, the players need some serious fines or suspensions.

[PatsFanNH]

They didn't get screwed at all. That was absolutely a legit holding call on the Pats TE right at the point of attack.

 

Well the FORMER head of the NFL Referees (the guy on FOX Pre game show) disagrees with you. He said it was at BEST a marginal call and that the regular NFL referees would never call that since Gronk had his hands in the proper position and kept the guy DIRECTLY in front of him.

[Fan in San Diego]

have you been watching? honestly, someone will get hurt if they dont straighten some stuff out fast - and very possibly a ref if they keep allowing everyone and their brother to crowd around and scream at them.

 

the nfl needs to put in a hard line rule that no one can leave the sideline (except perhaps the head coach?) and the refs need to flag some guys for getting in their faces (or last night physically touching them).

 

that is not an any given sunday situation.

 

and lost in that mess is that it shouldve been denver ball in the scrum - in what amounted to a 1 possession game. short of blowing a call on the final play (how many chances for that to happen even occur?) what would it take for someone to note that the first half of that game was HIGHLY effected by officials? delays, wrong calls, marking off an extra 6 yards on the D holding late etc.... heck, atlanta mightve run away with it more with momentum uninterrupted, or maybe they never run away if denver keeps that ball. to say they had no effect is nonsense.

 

Start ejecting a few people and the getting in their faces will end pretty quick.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Start ejecting a few people and the getting in their faces will end pretty quick.

 

which wouldve happened last night, if the refs felt confident and empowered, id imagine.

 

the problem being they dont. the nfl has to find some ways to make that happen.

[zow2]

I like the analogy being talked about that the NFL players are like kids trying to take advantage of the substitute teachers. It's clear DB's are grabbing a bit more and getting away with it more often (another reason to be so disappointed by the Bills DB's in week #1). Seems to be a little more rough stuff after the whistle too. The Rams got away with "sending a message" to RG3 last week, BIG Time. Way to many after the play forearms to the chops in several games. I think this week the NFL is gonna make sure the refs get flag happy for week #3.

[Offside Number 76]

Pretty good rant from espn's website.

 

 

Dear NFL Players, Coaches and Fans,

 

...

Sincerely,

 

The Replacements

 

Dear Replacement Officials: We're spending anywhere from $50-$500 per seat, depending on stadium and location within, to watch football. You don't get to tell us how hard it is for you to do your job. Shut up and learn how to ref a game. Sincerely, the fans.