Outside Linebackers

[gobillsinytown]

Not really sure what you're saying? College defenses adjust their fronts just like the pros do especially with all of the spread offenses. Do you think USC is going to stay in their base cover 2 when they're playing Oregon? No. The 43 over is going to be the Bills base D and their fronts will be dictated by the offensive personnel on the field...that's football.

 

Sorry I got off on a tangent a little....the point being that whether a team is running a 43 or 34 is almost becoming immaterial. And while college defenses do make adjustments, it's not to the same level that NFL defenses do. NFL defenses adjust not only based on the offense on the field, but also on down and distance. And NFL defenses are much more sophisticated in terms of disguising coverages, pre snap movement, blitzing, etc. So related to the topic at hand, linebackers are no longer static in terms of where they play on the field, especially with elite athletes. So if the Bills' were to draft one of the top linebackers in this draft, they're likely to move him around to try to exploit his athleticism. For example, the Broncos put Vonn Miller all over the field last year, because his athleticism and smart play enabled them to move him around to exploit weaknesses. This draft is going to be very interesting, because signing Mario gives the team a whole new look at their draft board.

[Estro]

Imo Lavonne David is a top 40 prospect.....especially considering the need for LB's to be good in coverage in todays NFL. So I think there's a 50/50 shot he'll be on the board when we pick at #42, my gut is telling me he'll be picked before then though.

 

If you believe all the mock drafts though, they typically have him going mid 2ndround round to mid 3rd round.

 

The more I look into him, they more I want him to be a Buffalo Bill

[NewEra]

1332017099[/url]' post='2412805']

Which is why we need to draft a LB who excels in nickel/passing situations, ala, Lavonte David. He can contribute immediately, and Nick Barnett is getting older. so he'll eventually take over his spot.

 

Agreed. He'd be the perfect addition in rd2 or 3. While I love Irvin's athleticism, he's a pass rusher. Maybe his game can grow into more than that, but we don't need a pass rushing LB. we need guys that can cover and tackle. I'd be happy if we took Irvin, as I think he's an interesting player with tremendous burst, but he really doesn't fit what we're looking for at OLB (unless he improves his coverage)

[Matt in KC]

Sorry I got off on a tangent a little....the point being that whether a team is running a 43 or 34 is almost becoming immaterial. And while college defenses do make adjustments, it's not to the same level that NFL defenses do. NFL defenses adjust not only based on the offense on the field, but also on down and distance. And NFL defenses are much more sophisticated in terms of disguising coverages, pre snap movement, blitzing, etc. So related to the topic at hand, linebackers are no longer static in terms of where they play on the field, especially with elite athletes. So if the Bills' were to draft one of the top linebackers in this draft, they're likely to move him around to try to exploit his athleticism. For example, the Broncos put Vonn Miller all over the field last year, because his athleticism and smart play enabled them to move him around to exploit weaknesses. This draft is going to be very interesting, because signing Mario gives the team a whole new look at their draft board.

I'd love for any of those to accurately describe the Bills defense!

• sophisticated
  
• disguised coverages
  
• pre-snap movement
  
• blitzing
  
• elite athletes
  

We haven't even hit the draft yet and I'm already really excited to see our new defense!

[Kelly the Dog]

I'd love for any of those to accurately describe the Bills defense!

• sophisticated
• disguised coverages
• pre-snap movement
• blitzing
• elite athletes

We haven't even hit the draft yet and I'm already really excited to see our new defense!

From what I have read and heard, it's just the opposite. Wanny wants to simplify the defense, and let players play rather than think. They even told Mario, for example, that he wouldn't have to drop back in coverage much on zone blitzes. They want to just line up and go after the quarterback, and let the plays have simple distinct duties and run to the ball.

[Reed83HOF]

I think we will look at LBs in the draft and of their value is rated higher than anyone else they will take them. Buddy, Chan and Wanny on are record saying they like our LBs and they see everyone being able to fit in the new system. I honestly think they are more than willing to ride with what have, provided we can't find good value in FA or the draft that is an upgrade. Although our base is a 43, that does NOT mean that there will be 3 LBs on the field that often. We could have 5-1-5 on the field a lot if it is the Jets or Phins (who will most likely be running teams this season) or a 4-2-5 or even a 4-1-6 against the Pats*. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if we took an LB or 2 in the mid-rounds (3-5).

[JPS]

Dont underestimate Sheppard, or count him out just yet. Kid was a force on LSU's defense, and the emotional leader. Im interested to see what he can do with Wanny at the helm (and Williams-Dareus-Williams-Merriman in front of him).

I hear you. I dunno. I just wonder if he's as good as Kuechly or Hightower....and whether that will make a difference on draft day.

 

The D Line is the key to this defense. Up field pressure and 1 gap schemes that lead to lots of TFLs and backfield havoc. Dareus will thrive playing 3 tech. 3 tech alignment alone will always give him the advantage to the strong side. I remember hearing Warren Sapp, who played 3 in this defense, say that Dareus's best position would be the 3...I'll take Sapp's word for it. KW is going to look a lot like the guy from 2 years ago because he's back in a 1 tech with a tilt which again gives him the advantage playside. I expect Bills opponents to running a lot of misdirection this year and then we'll see how good those LBs are. A guy like Keuckly would dominate in this defense and is a true Mike. His instincts are off the charts and he doesn't miss tackle. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Buddy picks him.

 

 

Wanny ran the same defense at Pitt and has always run this defense. He's from the JJ/Butch Davis tree and they all run the same defense. He's not changing. Maybe we'll draft Coples to be "our" Tony Tolbert.

Maybe. Before the Williams signing, I knew their priorities, now I'm cloudy. I could see Hightower, Kuechly or Coples.

[ndirish1978]

Kuechly comes in, where does he play and what does that do to Shep. Can one of them shift over to SAM?

[JPS]

Jeez, if Kuechly runs a 4.55, why couldn't he be a SAM?

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Jeez, if Kuechly runs a 4.55, why couldn't he be a SAM?

 

Because the draft profiles list him as a middle linebacker. Other than that, there is no reason...

[DrDawkinstein]

While I was looking at film on Kluechy today, I assumed we would bring him in as an OLB. Leave Shep in the middle to thud, or hang out in the middle of the field. Let Kluechy cover and roam. JMO.

 

Kluchy at Sam, Sheppard at Mike, David at Will; sounds good to me.

Edited March 18, 2012 by DrDareustein

[ndirish1978]

Because the draft profiles list him as a middle linebacker. Other than that, there is no reason...

 

Yeah that's why I asked. His measurables are in line with a SAM linebacker or MIKE, but I think he's a better player than Shep and I would rather Shep, who is a bit slower, move outside

[boyst]

Sorry a little late to this but the Nickel was touched on quite a bit already.

 

A defense in this league is different then it used to be. You have 6 guys who can rotate in on a 4 man front, mostly the same skillset but some better then others at certain aspects, such as Merriman on pass rushing or Kelsay on runstuffing.

 

On the DB's you have guys who play the same skillset every down nearly only adjusting their priorities based on downs, distances, and who they match up against. A SS is going to do what he does, FS, CB, etc. too.

 

The LB's are the biggest variables, whether guys who can move sideline to sideline, guys who can backpedal and drop to coverage, or guys that bullrush the line. These guys are the most skilled athletes on the defensive side of the field directly matching up with the highest priority guys on offense. Regardless to the 3-4 or 4-3 you have to understand that any change in their attributes directly impacts what happens on the field.

 

With only 3 LB's on the field this year we have a lot more to cover. Speed in the middle will be important as well as CB's who can cover man to man this year, and safeties who can hold their own. The 4-3 in my eyes can expose the defense to long pass plays. However, due to the pressure created by the line the time it takes to develop that play might not be enough to let it mature.

 

Either way, getting back to my big bad drum; we need to sign Bryan Scott. To believe a rookie can come in to this league and play with the knowledge of whats going on is scary. He will get burned, if we make the playoffs he will get exposed in a play at least one time that could be costly. Scott brings to the table the experience, maturity and assets needed to fill this role for likely another 2 to 3 seasons. Until Welker is gone, Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Lloyd, Sanchez weak arm that throws 10 yards or less even on 3rd down, and Miami's popgun offense...well, yeah, we need to be able to stop the plays that happen in the short game. I don't think NE will be able to play the long ball this year, even with Lloyd. His routes too irregular, the line too weak, Lloyd is a luxury pick that likely will only draw coverage on particular plays.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Yeah that's why I asked. His measurables are in line with a SAM linebacker or MIKE, but I think he's a better player than Shep and I would rather Shep, who is a bit slower, move outside

Sorry, just being sarky. I think he would be a great addition, because he could play all any LB spot, and stay on the field for all 3 downs.

[RealityCheck]

Scott has received an offer and thus far has declined. He is not the "answer" to anything we are doing on D. He is a good player in the right down and distance situations but he has limitations as a LB.

[mob16151]

Sean Spence from Miami in the second or Keenan Robinson from Texas in the 4th would both be good pickups.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Sorry a little late to this but the Nickel was touched on quite a bit already.

 

A defense in this league is different then it used to be. You have 6 guys who can rotate in on a 4 man front, mostly the same skillset but some better then others at certain aspects, such as Merriman on pass rushing or Kelsay on runstuffing.

 

On the DB's you have guys who play the same skillset every down nearly only adjusting their priorities based on downs, distances, and who they match up against. A SS is going to do what he does, FS, CB, etc. too.

 

The LB's are the biggest variables, whether guys who can move sideline to sideline, guys who can backpedal and drop to coverage, or guys that bullrush the line. These guys are the most skilled athletes on the defensive side of the field directly matching up with the highest priority guys on offense. Regardless to the 3-4 or 4-3 you have to understand that any change in their attributes directly impacts what happens on the field.

 

With only 3 LB's on the field this year we have a lot more to cover. Speed in the middle will be important as well as CB's who can cover man to man this year, and safeties who can hold their own. The 4-3 in my eyes can expose the defense to long pass plays. However, due to the pressure created by the line the time it takes to develop that play might not be enough to let it mature.

 

Either way, getting back to my big bad drum; we need to sign Bryan Scott. To believe a rookie can come in to this league and play with the knowledge of whats going on is scary. He will get burned, if we make the playoffs he will get exposed in a play at least one time that could be costly. Scott brings to the table the experience, maturity and assets needed to fill this role for likely another 2 to 3 seasons. Until Welker is gone, Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Lloyd, Sanchez weak arm that throws 10 yards or less even on 3rd down, and Miami's popgun offense...well, yeah, we need to be able to stop the plays that happen in the short game. I don't think NE will be able to play the long ball this year, even with Lloyd. His routes too irregular, the line too weak, Lloyd is a luxury pick that likely will only draw coverage on particular plays.

 

I agree, they should resign Scott. They need more than just him though.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

He'd (David) be the perfect addition in rd2 or 3. While I love Irvin's athleticism, he's a pass rusher. Maybe his game can grow into more than that, but we don't need a pass rushing LB. we need guys that can cover and tackle. I'd be happy if we took Irvin, as I think he's an interesting player with tremendous burst, but he really doesn't fit what we're looking for at OLB (unless he improves his coverage)

I think Irvin will be one of the best players from this draft.

 

Almost every play I've watched of Irvin (about 175-200 snaps) has been maximum-effort, full-speed football. You watch some players, even good ones like Andre Branch and Dontari Poe and you can see them cruising from time to time. With Irvin he plays every play as if it's his last one. He is a hardcore football player.

 

For some dumb reason, West Virginia played Irvin as a DE in 3-4 and 3-3 fronts. He's 6'3" and 245 pounds and was playing mostly a 5-technique against 300-pound OTs. On obvious passing downs he would split out to a 7-technique. He was totally miscast as a DE and yet had 22.5 sacks (not including the 2 in Bowl Games) over the last two seasons. In spite of being miscast he more than held his own physically by showing great hand use, combativeness and explosion to match up against much larger men.

 

Irvin will be an OLB in the NFL and is probably perfectly suited as a 3-4 rushbacker but I think he'd be an awesome 4-3 backer too.

 

He shows great sense and instincts and his agility scores were by far the best at the combine.

 

Bruce Irvin had the best times in all of the drills among DEs, ILBs, and OLBs.

 

He outperformed Luke Keuchly and Lavonte David in almost every drill and blew away the entire field in the short shuttle and 3-cone drill where he had historically significant scores on top of 4.50 forty time which was also the best against every OLB, ILB, and DE… one of the best times ever.

 

I loved Von Miller last year but personally I think Irvin is a better prospect than Von MIller (he's as elite an athlete and much more physical) and will start rocketing up draft boards.

 

Bruce Irvin's best use would be as a pass rusher but with his speed, quickness, agility, and instincts, he could play any linebacker position easily. He could easily blanket tight ends and running backs and he'd be effective playing in zone coverages IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

[Geno Smith's Arm]

I think there are plenty of guys in this draft that can fit the bill, I just hope they draft one.

 

It's hard for me to get a feel for how well Irvin reads plays because he is always rushing from the line. In the Lavonte David footage, you can see how well he reads plays.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Matthews' Bag

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

I don't know if any of the Perry/Curry types have the change of direction skills needed. They might, but I'm just sayin I don't know for sure. I believe Branch tested well in those types of drills if I recall.......

Agree. Neither one of them showed great change of direstion at the combine. Perry did great in the athletic speed drills. I still have all the combine shows Tivoed. Irvin would seem a better fit but I would love to see Dont'a Hightower in the middle rather than Sheppard. Another guy who looked real athletic for OLB was Bobby Wagner from Utah St. And Andre Branch from Clemson looked like more of a "change of direction" guy than Curry.... by far. But I imagine Branch will be long gone before pick #41. Curry looks like a rush the passer only type.

I think Ronnell Lewis from Oklahoma would be a great pick up in round 2 if he makes it that far. Mean SOB.

And Zach Brown looks great but doesn't seem to have great fundamentals. I like what Mayock said about him.. Great athlete, very fast but I'm waiting to see on tape that first strong sound fundamental tackle. Don't know if we should pick someone that still needs to learn how to play properly.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

think strong safety-type players. little more height though. and zack thomas was an exeption. not the rule. like london.

 

with us we have to get guys in able to cover gronk

Shea McClellin 6'3" 260, 4.64 - 40

[Dragonborn10]

Anybody think they kick Dareus out to DE and Mario to OLB on passing downs? Since Mario was doing well at 3-4 OLB I wonder if they mix in the 3-4 more than we think.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Bobby Wagner Utah State 6'0" 235 OLB

Lavonte David Nebraska 6'1" 233 OLB

Ronnell Lewis Oklahoma 6'2" 253 OLB

Audie Cole North Carolina State 6'4" 242 OLB

Sean Spence Miami (FL) 5'11" 231 OLB

[#34fan]

Bobby Wagner Utah State 6'0" 235 OLB

Lavonte David Nebraska 6'1" 233 OLB

Ronnell Lewis Oklahoma 6'2" 253 OLB

Audie Cole North Carolina State 6'4" 242 OLB

Sean Spence Miami (FL) 5'11" 231 OLB

 

Can't draft all those kids, Barbie. I'll take Ronnell Lewis or this kid:

 

Miles Burris San Diego State 6'2" 246lbs

 

The school is a bum factory for the most part. This kid, however, can play. Excellent football skills. Johnny on the spot on most defensive plays.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

From what I have read and heard, it's just the opposite. Wanny wants to simplify the defense, and let players play rather than think. They even told Mario, for example, that he wouldn't have to drop back in coverage much on zone blitzes. They want to just line up and go after the quarterback, and let the plays have simple distinct duties and run to the ball.

 

Two Ds that made great strides in one year - GB a few years back, Texans last year. In both cases, all the player interviews I heard credited the new DC with having simplified the defense so they could react more quickly and instinctively.

 

Of course, a simplified D with more straightforward responsibilities is not necessarily inconsistent with some of what was listed.

[Sisyphean Bills]

And Zach Brown looks great but doesn't seem to have great fundamentals. I like what Mayock said about him.. Great athlete, very fast but I'm waiting to see on tape that first strong sound fundamental tackle. Don't know if we should pick someone that still needs to learn how to play properly.

It would really be something if those sorts of days were in the rearview mirror...

[Pete]

I think Irvin will be one of the best players from this draft.

 

Almost every play I've watched of Irvin (about 175-200 snaps) has been maximum-effort, full-speed football. You watch some players, even good ones like Andre Branch and Dontari Poe and you can see them cruising from time to time. With Irvin he plays every play as if it's his last one. He is a hardcore football player.

 

For some dumb reason, West Virginia played Irvin as a DE in 3-4 and 3-3 fronts. He's 6'3" and 245 pounds and was playing mostly a 5-technique against 300-pound OTs. On obvious passing downs he would split out to a 7-technique. He was totally miscast as a DE and yet had 22.5 sacks (not including the 2 in Bowl Games) over the last two seasons. In spite of being miscast he more than held his own physically by showing great hand use, combativeness and explosion to match up against much larger men.

 

Irvin will be an OLB in the NFL and is probably perfectly suited as a 3-4 rushbacker but I think he'd be an awesome 4-3 backer too.

 

He shows great sense and instincts and his agility scores were by far the best at the combine.

 

Bruce Irvin had the best times in all of the drills among DEs, ILBs, and OLBs.

 

He outperformed Luke Keuchly and Lavonte David in almost every drill and blew away the entire field in the short shuttle and 3-cone drill where he had historically significant scores on top of 4.50 forty time which was also the best against every OLB, ILB, and DE… one of the best times ever.

 

I loved Von Miller last year but personally I think Irvin is a better prospect than Von MIller (he's as elite an athlete and much more physical) and will start rocketing up draft boards.

 

Bruce Irvin's best use would be as a pass rusher but with his speed, quickness, agility, and instincts, he could play any linebacker position easily. He could easily blanket tight ends and running backs and he'd be effective playing in zone coverages IMO.

sold. Where do you think he goes in draft? Sounds like he is rising up draft boards. http://seahawksdraftblog.com/bruce-irvin-is-ready-to-crash-the-2012-nfl-draft

[San Jose Bills Fan]

sold. Where do you think he goes in draft? Sounds like he is rising up draft boards. http://seahawksdraft...-2012-nfl-draft

Apparently this player evaluation was written after his highly-successful 2010 season when he had 14 sacks as a non-starting, situational pass rusher.

 

He had only 8.5 sacks in 2011 but was the focal point of most offenses… and like I said, what is a 245 pounder doing playing 5-technique on a 3-man front?

 

While his numbers went down, there was no dropoff in his actual play, his intensity or his effort. He just had to deal with a lot more blockers.

 

This guy looks like a Lawrence Taylor clone to me. Many scouts had his 40 time at the combine clocked in the 4.43 range. Besides his 40 time, his 3-cone drill and 20-yard shuttle were among the best ever recorded and well faster than Keuchly's times.

 

As the evaluator in your link agreed with me, this is Von Miller with much more natural power and a warrior complex as a football player. He plays mean and with violence even though I haven't seen a single personal foul penalty on the guy.

 

People will call me crazy but I'd have zero problem if the Bills picked this guy at #10. IMO, he's way beyond Keuchly or Zack Brown.

 

There are 3 video links at the bottom of this review of Bruce Irvin:

 

http://nflmocks.com/...ineers-footbal/

Edited March 18, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Justice]

This Bruce Irvin kid from West Virginia is a serious player.

 

http://draftbreakdow...vs-clemson-2011

 

Amazingly at Morgantown he played mostly 3-4 DE but as a linebacker he'll be a holy terror.

 

He, Keuchly and Zack Brown are among the fastest LBs I've ever seen.

 

Thing is, #10 is too high for any of them, IMO, so I'm hoping one of them will be available for our 2nd round pick… which may be wishful thinking.

 

Irvin will most likely go in the third round.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Irvin will most likely go in the third round.

He won't make it out of the first.

[Justice]

He won't make it out of the first.

 

No doubt physically the kid is a first round talent, but he doesn't have a true natural position. He played defensive end in college. can he play outside linebacker in the pros, that is the question. therefore his stock should remain at around the second or third round in my opinion.

[Tcali]

This Bruce Irvin kid from West Virginia is a serious player.

 

http://draftbreakdow...vs-clemson-2011

 

Amazingly at Morgantown he played mostly 3-4 DE but as a linebacker he'll be a holy terror.

 

He, Keuchly and Zack Brown are among the fastest LBs I've ever seen.

 

Thing is, #10 is too high for any of them, IMO, so I'm hoping one of them will be available for our 2nd round pick… which may be wishful thinking.

 

SJR...Too bad the draft situation doesnt quite line up perfectly with our huge needs at LB.

I know we cant reach at 10. i wouldnt be averse to another D lineman or LT at 10.Can never have enough D line talent.

And while our O line is ok---they are far from a strong unit.

many on here are pushing for a CB. I know we have a need there.But I think we have all seen the folly of building from

the outside in.

[Reed83HOF]

Read today's Buffalo News article:Wanny on this years D

 

""It was that way in Miami with Jason Taylor and [Adewale] Ogunleye and [Tim] Bowens and [Daryl] Gardener," Wannstedt said. "It was that way in Chicago with [Richard] Dent and [steve] McMichael and Trace Armstorng. In Dallas, we had Leon Lett and Russell Maryland and Charles Haley. As our guys up front go, so will our defense go. That's why organizationally, we felt that this was such a high priority.""

 

"I really believe the game has changed some," he said. "Ten years ago, eight years ago, when all the fire zones and blitzes became a big, big factor, you were able to scheme and trick guys and pick up a lot of sacks because offenses weren't ready to handle it. Now the good offenses are."

 

"You've got to attack a protection and make 'em block you one on one," Wannstedt said. "If you have good enough players, better players, and they win one on one, you get sacks and pressure. If your players aren't good enough, you can run the same blitzes as other teams, but you aren't going to get the pressures."

 

Wannstedt says the approach used by the Super Bowl-champion New York Giants is the most effective -- if a team has the players to execute it.

 

"I've always believed that you gotta mix that in," Wannstedt said of blitzing. "But if you can get to the point, like the Giants are, where you can create pressure with four guys, now in the secondary you don't have to run single coverage. You can run two or three different coverages. You can double guys, trap guys. It gives you a lot more flexibility back there. That's our goal.""

 

We are going to create pressure with our front 4 and our D will go as far as they can take us. His next emphasis was on the secondary. We won't be having 3 LBs on the field that much at all. And when LBs are in the game, they are not rushing the passer. They are being a London Fletcher/Poz - making tackles and playing coverage. LBs on our scheme are somewhat overrated (we are not the Steelers), we need them to be able to wrap-up and tackle. Dominate front 4, great coverage secondary and good tacking average LBs

[Justice]

He won't make it out of the first.

 

Like I said, the third round

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/19/bruce-irvin-arrested-for-destruction-of-property/

[BBeck/cuba]

If Zach Brown fell to us in the second it would be amazing, but I doubt it. The kid I like here is Bobby Wagner. He didnt participate in combine due to illness but was a beast in Ssenior bowl.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Like I said, the third round

 

http://profootballta...on-of-property/

Beating up a sign will not affect his draft value.

[JohnC]

People will call me crazy but I'd have zero problem if the Bills picked this guy at #10. IMO, he's way beyond Keuchly or Zack Brown.

 

In a prior post you made the claim that you thought Irvin was a better prospect than Von Miller, the second pick in last year's draft and the rookie defensive player of the year. As another poster pointed out Irvin is projected as a third round pick.

 

I'm not going to call you crazy but I am going to say that you are overly enthusiastic and invested on this particular player. If Nix took Irvin with their first round pick he should be fired on the spot for being grossly inept.

[KOKBILLS]

zack brown, ronnell lewis, sean spence.

 

then you got the tweeners like mercilus, perry, curry. who could possibly play at de/olb as well.

 

then you got inside lbs that could possibly play outside like luke k, burfict.

 

 

 

seems like wannsted wants speed at the lb position

 

Ronnell Lewis basically played DE with his hand on the ground at Oklahoma... Projecting him to an NFL 4-3 OLB is a HUGE stretch...I could see the projection if he had 4.5 speed...But he's a 4.67 guy with virtually zero experience in Coverage...I really don't know where this idea that he is a 4-3 OLB comes from...Maybe in time...But I doubt it...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

In a prior post you made the claim that you thought Irvin was a better prospect than Von Miller, the second pick in last year's draft and the rookie defensive player of the year. As another poster pointed out Irvin is projected as a third round pick.

 

I'm not going to call you crazy but I am going to say that you are overly enthusiastic and invested on this particular player. If Nix took Irvin with their first round pick he should be fired on the spot for being grossly inept.

That's perfectly fine, John.

 

As always, I'll stand by my convictions… like most of us here would.

 

Time will prove me right or wrong.

 

Actually I believe if you can evaluate players and you watch the ample video evidence on Irvin, that you won't be able to draw any other conclusion than the one I hold.

 

When you see how grossly he was misused at West Virginia (a 245 pound, 5-technique, 3-4 defensive end) and you see his above the 99th percentile athleticism (confirmed by his dominating performance at the combine), and the fire and violence and hunger he plays football with… yeah I believe this guy is going to be one of the 2-3 great players from this draft.

 

 

 

BTW, I liked Zack Brown earlier but I saw some more recent video compilations of the guy and I've really soured on him. He had a particularly disastrous effort against Missouri this year where he was completely indifferent, often out of position, and was shying away from physical contact.

 

Others here have championed Lavonte David and I agree that David is a very special player… but on my team I'd take Irvin first.

[NoSaint]

That's perfectly fine, John.

 

As always, I'll stand by my convictions… like most of us here would.

 

Time will prove me right or wrong.

 

Actually I believe if you can evaluate players and you watch the ample video evidence on Irvin, that you won't be able to draw any other conclusion than the one I hold.

 

When you see how grossly he was misused at West Virginia (a 245 pound, 5-technique, 3-4 defensive end) and you see his above the 99th percentile athleticism (confirmed by his dominating performance at the combine), and the fire and violence and hunger he plays football with… yeah I believe this guy is going to be one of the 2-3 great players from this draft.

 

 

 

BTW, I liked Zack Brown earlier but I saw some more recent video compilations of the guy and I've really soured on him. He had a particularly disastrous effort against Missouri this year where he was completely indifferent, often out of position, and was shying away from physical contact.

 

Others here have championed Lavonte David and I agree that David is a very special player… but on my team I'd take Irvin first.

 

I thought I caught word of some legal trouble from Irvin last weekend- any details out yet?